Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

Saulot commented earlier about the Battleragers being size 3 in order to keep them from using the 6/square dwarf formation. They are pretty funny in practice because they get Quickness somehow and zoom around doing two attacks, and they have berzerk +10 (rather extreme).

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

lol + 10 protection.. that would be nice especially since I guess they already have some armour.. why not sacred with earthbless 9 too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Thematically I can imagine the battle ragers needing a lot of room for all kinds of battle raging maneuvres http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

Yes, they don't need no stinkin' armor either! Woad is enough for them (prot 6). That and booze, lotsa booze... drunken dwarf-fu maybe? I can imagine them whistling "Happy Woodcutter" as they charge into the enemy ranks, spittle and axe a flying...

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

battle ragers use the most heavy of heavy armour, with points everywhere, read the Salvatore stories about them battlehammer battleragers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

They should get a damageshield (1)

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

"- Loremaster has new magic path cost 40 . Is it intentional ? Considering is other stats, I would rather take a great enchantress. It is thematic for dwarves not to have too diverse magic, but I thing you could give him another path. Or two, and raise path cost to 50-60."

Hm, well I suppose he could have death, but I'd very much prefer if the dwarves weren't running around with skeletons in tow, or a death bless.

If he had a lower pathcost, it may be overpowered.

Suggestions are quite welcome, I'm not quite satisfied with the Loremaster, as my original idea for him was unable to be worked out in game, and tuning him down to a plain sage pretender is kind of boring.

"- At the beginning of line 4 of Mimir's backgroung "the them" seems a bit too much. "

Fixed.

"Woo hoo! Thanks Saulot! Wow, there is a lot of work here!"

Thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

"The thrown hammers from Dwarven Throwing Axe are visually enormous (like, two meters long) for some reason. Their range should probably be Strength rather than straight 12."

That's the size of the sprite animation. Nothing I can do about that. As for range being strength, I'd prefer that myself but that's not moddable.

"Dwarves should probably use a better Axe than the standard Axe - there's no reason to prefer the Axe dwarf to the hammer dwarf, and the only cost difference is 1 resource point, for +1 attack. "

Hm, yes I suppose they are too similar, so I have several options here. I can give a dwarven axe a +1 to hit, (which makes it identical to a hammer, so that wouldn't work), I can give a dwarven axe a +1 to damage, which would probably make it still inferior to the hammer 4 times out 5, and not really be worth it, since then I'd have to round out dwarven hatchets and battleaxes as well, and that seems like much ado about nothing.

The other alternative, is to get rid of the hammer dwarf warrior altogether, which I have considered earlier, but left it in there for the same reason they're there in Ulm, for flavor.

Suggestions welcome.

As for Battleragers, I think trentzero has the right idea. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I gave this unit a LOT of thought and consideration. There were several ways I could have went about it, as they needed to be special and different.

I thought about making them bigger and giving them trample (not terribly original). I thought about giving them a ton of armor, however, there are plenty of walking tin-cans available, and another one would hardly have been special. Furthermore, with dominions encumbrance rules, they would be slow as a plumber going for his tools. I don't think I need to mention balance as yet another reason.

Then I examined the onebattlespells that could somewhat make them rage. Obviously, rage was the first choice, but I'm pretty sure that wouldn't work, and even if it did, nobody would want to buy them. Self quickness seems to do the trick. They run around like crazy and chop things up. The strong berserk ability takes care of their boosted defence soon enough, to around 0, but gives them the ability to survive blows that would lay another being low. Despite their unusually good abilities, the lack of a body slot should keep them out of the abusive thug range.

All in all, I think it's a fine approximation of Battleragers and that they're a highlight of the mod. I'm quite pleased with them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

For the axes and hammers, yeah it's tricky within the existing values. My ideal solution would actually be to make and apply a weapon mod, because the issue is a pet peeve of mine. (I think the two-handed weapons and good one-handed battleaxes are undervalued, and daggers overrated. I'd call the existing Axe a Woodaxe for foresters and other non-pros, and make a one-handed battle Axe cost more resources but have no negatives to skill, like the difference between a Maul and a Battleaxe.)

But given the existing weapons, I think I would suggest adding a non-magic Dwarven Axe weapon with say damage 7 or 8, attack 0, defense -1 or 0, length 1, and giving it a noticeably higher resource cost than the Hammer. I'd also have a Dwarven Battleaxe with at least damage 10, just because.

Also I think your Helmsfire Greataxe should be length 3.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Existing stats:
Fist -2 -1 -1 0
Dagger 2 1 0 0
Hatchet 5 0 0 1
Axe 7 -1 -1 1
Hammer 7 0 -1 1
Shortsword 5 0 1 1
Broadsword 6 0 1 2
Maul 9 0 -1 3
Battleaxe 9 0 0 3

Your added stats:
Dwarven Pickaxe 3 0 -1 1 (AP)
Dwarven Hammer 8 0 -1 1 (magic)
Dwarven Maul 11 0 -1 3 (magic)
Runed Greataxe 10 1 0 3 (magic + undead)
Helmsfire Greataxe 10 2 0 2 (magic + fire)
</pre><hr />

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

I too would probably change some weapons, starting with the ones which were more traditionally for dealing with heavy armor; warhammers, mauls, picks, lucerne hammers, etc. by lowering their damage and making them AP. I'd also probably change some of the spear users to have more variety, with military forks, warscythes, and pikes.

But imposing that inside of a nation mod hardly seems fair, and there's already a balance mod that's quite well developed.

Well, there's nothing wrong with the rationale behind making a dwarf-based axe, it's just that improving it wouldn't just change the balance of one of the dwarf units, but several of them. Due to how size 1 resources go, even if I gave it 3 or 4 more resources, it would still be too similar to a hammer. Also, I'm not sure I could explain away why it would be have such a higher resource cost. Lastly, there's still the problem of there being 3 axes (hatchet, axe, battleaxe). Changing one, suggests the other two should be altered as well.

I didn't add a 'Dwarven Hammer'. That's the base weapon for the magic item of the same name.

As for the two greataxes, that was intentional as I wanted to make them a bit different, to have less similarities between the paladins. The second greataxe is somewhat shorter, double headed (thus the rounded edge means that the most likely point of impact is at the middle of the axehead, and not the top) thus better balanced, and possessing the ability for an equally brutal backswing (this all translates into +1 to hit, -1 to length in Dom terms). However, tweaking the stats of the greataxes is certainly mutable and not set in stone. Hopefully the two paladins are balanced, yet different enough.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

Yes, I'm with you on the armor-piercing weapons. I'll have to check out the balance mod.

Seems to me axes are the signature stereotypical dwarven weapon, and these dwarves are apparently expert weaponsmiths, and yet their non-magical axe weapons are inferior to plain hammers or swords. As a player, I'd probably rather recruit hatchet versions at 5 0 0 1 than axe versions at 7 -1 -1 1 (and I essentially never recruit the axe dwarves because of the hammer dwarves). Really it's just a flavor/thematic thing.

...

Especially since they are ultra-strong already simply due to their stacking double the number of figures per square in melee combat.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

Somebody really ought to do a study on weapon type/form efficiency as compared to the size/strength of the person weilding the weapon. It would make for an interesting thesis.

I don't know why Tolkien, or anyone else, felt the need to put axes in the hands of dwarfs, except for their Norse origins. Here's an interesting fact, however: Dwarfs weren't short, in Norse myth. They were, as far as can be told in modern times, as tall as humans. They only acquired their lesser status *after* the Viking age-probably influenced by the general shift of "faerie creatures" from large to small.

Axes, in combat, work by concentrating force-more than a sword-on a smaller area, but allowing the spread of force-more than a spear-to affect a greater area. The axe itself also acts somewhat like a lever, trading greater surface area for greater precision and striking power, which is why an axe requires more room to swing than a similarly sized sword, and much more than a spear does to thrust.

What does this mean? It means that, in the hands of a much smaller person, that lives in close quarters and thrives in heavy armour, you're putting a much larger, heavier weapon, that requires more room to swing, and that actually does less damage-especially to armour and compact targets-and has much less functionality and availability than a pick in similar circumstances.

Axes for dwarfs is great for Dominions, because it's pure myth. If you want something based a bit on reality and common sense, arm them with picks, spears, shortswords, macheti-type weapons, and crossbows.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

ok that was to much for me.. I can sort of see the 2nd alinea, but I can't see how that translates into the 3th (and thus 4th)

WHy would a very strong small person not wield an axe? What has the heavy armour to do with it?
Why is a larger heavier weapon a problem for a strong person?
Why does it do less damage to armour compared to a sword when you say it concentrates the force more? (ow wait that was compared to a pick right, I can see that)
I always consider dwarven quarters about the size that a dwarf can wield and axe and defend a whole corridor with swings of one axe.. how does that fit into your equation.

on your final alinea.. I can see why picks would be better than axes.. not why spears, shortswords and macheti-type weapons are better, since if you have the power to wield a heavy weapon.. IMHO it will hit harder.. which is a good thing when breaking armour right?

Plz enlighten me (really, no sarcasm here, I'd like to know it all)

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

I think what he wants to say is not, that a heavy swinging weapon is a problem for a strong person.

Point is, that it is worse then a small (or) thrusting weapon, because strength actuall matters less on heavy weapons: Those get their force through their own weight and speed.
And the speed they get per acceleration way (as long as you have a minimum strength to lift it), so long arms are an important advantage, while muscle power is a minor advantage (it effects the speed taken to the squareroot, if you what physics F=1/2*m*v² ).

I don't think that armor of the weapon wielder is a factor here: While it hampers your movements in directions it is not designed for, it does not meaningful hamper the moves it is designed for: Swinging a weapon is one such movement.

The armor of the target plays a role, however: I think dwarves will also train to use weapons which are efficient against heavy armor as they have it, and these are swung weapons: axes, military hammers, picks.

I can not agree with the "axe requires more room to swing than a similarly sized sword" because you don't need to compare length here but weigth. Greataxe beats Greatsword in close areas, because it is shorter. Likewise if you compare a longsword with a same weigth axe.

Picks as an alternative to axes?
Sure, they focus the impact on a single point which is why later Warhammers were more like picks then hammers - but the axe has it's advantage, too: A single long spike in your body is not straight out fatal, unless it hits heart, brain, spine. Probably not even disabling. The victim might live with it for another minute but it needs only seconds to hit you. On the other hand, an axe breaks bones where it stikes. Disables the victim better.

I agree that thrusting weapons - spears and maybe shortswords - make some sense for dwarfs as subterran fighters with short arms. However considering their need to also be able to kill heaviest armored targets, I also see the reason to use swung weapons. Among those axe, hammer and pick all have pros and cons and I can reasonably understand if dwarfs would choose the axe to be traditionally important.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

Aezeal, what's an alinea?

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

I too was curious. A search revealed that it is the Dutch word for paragraph.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

damn seemed like a somewhat latinish word that might be used in more countries... paragraph was not in my head atm

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

Spears are better, because they extend reach, and because they only require a tiny space to thrust forward, which means they can fit into narrow confines, and can be weilded by more combatants, against more opponents, in a given area-thus, the phalanx. And phalanxi are the way to go, underground, where there isn't a lot of maneuvaring possible, or necessary, and where you can usually guess where your opponent is going to come from.

Shortswords are good for dwarfs for the same reason they were good for the Romans-they don't require a lot of room to thrust, preferrably upward under armour.

Machetis are good for three reasons-1: they're versatile, 2: they're tough weapons that can take a lot of abuse, and 3: they're good for clearing underbrush, and when you're a dwarf, not used to being on the surface and having to deal with underbrush, you want to be able to hack through it so you can see, and move.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

I'd still say a lot of power and a heavy axe is a pretty nice combination as well though

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

Spear convenience would depend a lot on the tunnel. I've tried simply carrying around fairly long (5-foot or 6-foot) poles inside a modern house and found it was fairly tricky to get around without bashing the pole into something.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

PvK: True, that. But, you have to consider that, defensively, it has a lot of potential-and defense is what the dwarfs are all about. You wouldn't see a dwarf carrying around a spear in an area he didn't know well, or a place where it would would be a liability due to space.

Things become different, though, when it's in a tunnel *designed* by the dwarfs, and it's a spear *designed* by the dwarfs.

Personally, I think dwarfs would invent a lot of their own weapons. They're master craftsmen, with lots of time on their hands, and lots and lots of enemies.

There was an old issue of Dragon Magazine that featured new dwarfen weapons. Things like a crossbow that fired sharpened discs of metal-ideal for ricochet damage I would think, in those "hard to reach" places, the dwarfen claymore-a short, stout 2 handed sword, designed for dwarfs by dwarfs-with the phraise "short, thick, and nasty" as a byword, and the ceremonial dwarf battle-club, which-being a dwarf weapon-was a lot more than just ceremonial, made of metal inlaid, lead-cored hardwood, and used by dwarf calvalry mounted on angry mountain goats.

They might very well use axes frequently-I just don't see them as being their primary, be all-end all, weapon.
Maybe for dwarfs that live on the surface? where they need to chop down trees, to make charcoal if nothing else.
But does Gimli really *need* to be carrying around...what, 5 axes or so? What did he use to pick his teeth with? Maybe that's why dwarfs grow beards, to hide all the dental damage...

I think, the deeper down you went in a typical dwarf underkingdom, the less and less "typical" the dwarfs you'd meet would become. There might even be some women down there...

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

All good points and interesting valid ideas. I'm not sure there's any material disagreement left here.

Seems to me that for ultimate correctness purposes (not necessarily this mod), it doesn't matter much what the head is like on an axe/mace/hammer/pick - it should be possible to make such a weapon as good at length/attack/defense as any other, with the exception that hammer and especially mace don't need to strike in a particular direction, which advantage might or might not be considered to be worth a +1 relative attack mod. However there might be tradeoffs between those values and the resulting damage and resources too.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

Well-and this may surprise you-the greatest advantage that an axe has over all those other weapons is it's ability to be used fluidly. A properly shaped axe, of a good weight, can not only be thrown accurately, but it can also be used in melee to strike much faster than most other weapons, if the wielder is well-trained.

The axe curves down to strike, but that downward chop can be completed into a circle, by rotating it in the hands, which allows the head of the axe to swing back up, carried by the weight of the head (like a pendulum do), which by the way gave the axe-fighter a bit of a break, since the axe would at that point be carried along via momentum; and causing the blade of the axe to function a bit like a rotary saw-albeit in slow motion. It's quite impressive, even when the axe in question is the size of a hatchet-when it's an English Long-axe, it's frankly awe-inspiring.

Imagine a martial-arts movie wherein two fighters are squaring off with staves, and watch as one combatant rotates her staff in a circular motion-now imagine that the staff itself is "only" 5 feet long, but 2 inches thicker, and that one end of that staff is topped by a 4lb axe blade. It takes a lot more strength in various muscle groups, ofcourse-the axe would be swung more from the shoulders and back than the arms and waist, but the idea is much the same.

You can't do the same with a sword, because the sword has too much blade, and you can't do it as well, with a mace/hammer/etc. because of the bulkiness of the head.

It's one of the reasons why the "moon-shaped" head was so popular, though, because it allowed the axe to easily slice both into, and then out of, a given wound, shearing off with less risk of the blade getting stuck in a bone. Which also gave the axe-fighter a chance to engage more than one enemy at a time, since a long enough axe could "cleave" into and out of one wound, only to be carried-again, via momentum-into and out of another wound, on another combatant.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

as I said.. axes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

Axes are good...just not for dwarfs. Not particularly, anyway. Just like swords aren't very good for giants.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

Indepth discussions of dwarven tunnel battletactics and equipment aside, however interesting it is*, what is everyone's thoughts about giving them an improved axe or axes (as per PVK's suggestion or something similar)?

*There are still a few pieces of dwarven tunnelfighter's equipment left unmentioned

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

For mechanical reasons, I would not give better equipment across the board, unless you want to make it a more ressource-focussed the gold focussed nation.
Increasing strength, attack and defence has the same effect and makes it easier to compare with the other nations.

Of course there is:
1. There is basicly nothing wrong with making it more ressource-focused.
2. Even if the common soldier uses the average axe you can still add in elite-infantery or commaners that use improved weapons. Think of Tir Na Og and their Gold weapons.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

Well, high resource costs are problematic in terms of weapons, since they're size 1 which means only a fraction of the resource cost is used. I believe 1/2.

So resource heavy they're not. I believe outside of bolt-throwers the highest cost is 25. Which is marginal compared to some other nations, especially once you also add in the production bonus inherent to Underkings.

Secondly, the elite units side-step the axe question completely because they use hammers or magic weapons. The heirarchy tends to be axes, hammers, magic weapons, if one could divide the dwarven units into groups by their level of eliteness (so I made up a word, so what?) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

This whole problem arises from the axe and hammer problem. Axes are inferior, so everyone wonders, why use axes? If I improve the axes a bit, they'll be even more similar to hammers, so everyone wonders, why have both axes and hammers? If I improve axes a lot, everyone wonders, why use hammers?

Despite well thought out arguments presented thus far, I am still leaning for my original thinking (which is the easiest and cleanest solution), get rid of the hammer dwarf warrior, and so remove the side by side comparison and choice of axe and hammer.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

Since nothing of any other size would ever use the proposed "Dwarven Axe", why would it be problematic to make it cost however many resources would be needed to differentiate it from the hammer?

Seems to me it could be even more clear than the difference between the MA Infantry of Ulm with Battleaxe or Maul - more resources for a slightly better weapon. You could also decide that Dwarven axes are more prestigious personal weapons than hammers and so have them cost +1 or +2 gold more to hire troops with those.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

Oh, it occurred to me after I wrote that, that another option could be, if the weapons balance mod you mentioned results in addressing this, to simply suggest that the mod be used with that weapon balance mod, and/or make one that does, or failing all that, wait for me to make one that does... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

When you wrote, "there's already a balance mod that's quite well developed", did you mean Conceptual Balance mod or a weapon balance mod that I haven't found yet, or ...?

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

I meant the CB mod, even though I don't use it myself. I can only assume that Underkings plays the same way with the CB mod.

I'd be interested to see a pure weapons mod.

I'll play around with modifying axes a bit, and see how it turns out.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

Ouch, +10 berserk means +10 encumbrance, which means armor isn't going to do a lot to help them survive the battle. They *will* go out in a blaze of glory.

-Max

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

I like this solution. Dwarves use axes because it's thematic, not because it's effective. Although their small size compensates for the lowered attack.

-Max

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

My really really late response to this mod... This is the first mod that I have noticed that has no mages for hire. What am I missing?

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

A bug that removes magic picks when too many mods are enabled at the same time?

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

It occurs when Tomb Kings is enabled. The problem seems to be specific mod related because it does not occur when several other mods are active. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

I don't know what causes it, but it's been reported as fixed in the progress page (http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom3/dom3progress.html) and I managed to get a mod to work by disabling all mods except the one I wanted to try. It could be that Tomb Kings triggers it even if no other mods are enabled, and I don't know if you can do anything but wait for the next patch in that case.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

If another mod uses the same unit numbers, they will mod each other if both mods are active in the same game. I have an old version of Vaettiheim installed and it merges Vaettiheim with Bogarus.

Example:

Underkings says, units X through X+6 are dwarf mages.
Bob's mod says, units X through X+9 are power rangers.

Result is no drawf mages, and power rangers with beards and axes... ;-)

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

Bump.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

I know it was discussed before, but, really, size one dwarfs are not what i expected as an experienced RPG player. Apart of this small (haha) problem, this mod is great. Just don't mess with tramplers, any tramplers. Even iron pigs will send you back home crying.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

I'm definitely using size 1 dwarfs in my mod Nations. They'll be very tough size 1's, but it's nicer for balance, and for making things function differently, across different Nations. And, honestly, if you need size 2 dwarfs, you've already got Ulm.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

My various tests showed they will be really hard to balance for MP, or even SP : six figures per square, really all what my F2 mages like (if you manage to escape tramplers). I don't know for the mod you're doing, but I had real problems figthing some nations that use mages (ie :heims) or tramplers (ie : pangaea)in SP. Mostly I find them way too costly for the rate at which they get squashed.

Can you imagine the number of casualties after :aim/thunder strike/thunder strike ?

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

size 2 plz

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

It's not always easy to use size 1 units well, but it can be done. Each size level has it's own advantages, and disadvantages. Yes, tramplers are a big issue, no pun intended, but Nations which primarily focus on size 1 units should have a solution to most trampler problems.

In the mod Nation I'm doing, for instance, size 1 dwarfs are grouped together with giants and trolls, which range from size 1-6. They've also got access to quite a bit of elemental power, especially air, so thunder/lightning isn't much of a danger. Also, I haven't decided yet, but it's likely the dwarfs themselves will get some kind of minor (25% in most cases) elemental resistances.

Kharam-Dzu, on the other hand, had a very impressive repeater crossbow that, when massed in sufficient numbers, would make short work of elephants. It wasn't the perfect solution, but they have plenty going for them.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

What's the advantage of being size 4?

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

I don't know why you're asking, but the main advantage is to be less susceptible to area of effects.

Regarding this mod, I had forgotten the capitol only weak mages. I guess it is only meant to be played by dwarf fortress fans

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

Yeah, and size 4 can't be trampled by chariots (Hinnom aside).

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

And size 4 has great synergy with size 2 chaff that can easily filter forward to eat swords.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

It has worse synergy than size 2 or 1.

It also has worse synergy than size 3, with size 3.

I ask because honey just said all the sizes have advantages and disadvantages. I was curious to know what people thought the advantages of size 4 (imo the worst size) are. The AOE one is an interesting thought. It's also a disadvantage though, when it's an aoe buff.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

Depending on the ratio size/cost, you can have more or less ease to stop attack rear squads. As for this mod, the units cost more than their size 2 counterparts, but cover less ground (being size one), making it hard to cover all the frontline.

Re: Blast from the Past, Return of the Underkings
 

If you ever were interested in adding cavalry to this nation which seems like a no. In many of the games i have played the Dwarves have ridden Gryphons. If you were to add them you could make them sacred and very expensive so you couldn't mass them. The Dwarves as you pointed out with cavalry could be bolted down to the gryphons by a saddle of some sort if that is at all interesting ot you. Even if there is no cavalry it is a great nation.