Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

This statement is a total trivialization of the point tho, Krol. You are making the grand assumption that since the ad has provoked debate that it will be insured to also bring higher Dominions/other Shrapnel Game sales. How can you just assume this when at least myself and several others have said we were offended by it and have lost respect for Shrapnel?? You'd think our opinion would actually count for something, given that we have proven we are loyal repeat customers...

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Just to play the devils advocate here... an add featuring a swastika would no doubt generate a lot of threads and and discussion, while not necessarily being a good thing.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

In accordance with Godwin's Law, I declare this thread dead!

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

@Quantum_Mechani: Yeah, but c'mon. We can talk about potential extremes but why? As it stands these are terribly tame ads.

@Ironhawk: No assumption, just facts that it has indeed brought much more exposure than the other ads. Does exposure equal instant increase in sales? Hard to say, but then again marketing isn't always about specific products but awareness. You see a billboard with 'Just Do It' on it. No product. But you automatically recognize it's Nike, right?

So if the ads pique someone's curiosity and they check us out but don't buy Dom 3, that's still good. Maybe during the visit they discovered Eat Electric Death! or War Plan Pacific or winSPMBT.

I'm also curious by something. You say that as a loyal repeat customer the fact that you find the ad offensive should mean something. So, what should we do? Remove them?
What about the loyal repeat customers that don't find them offensive? Don't their voices count?

As they say you can't please everyone all the time. If you don't like them they're not forever. Nature of the beast is ever changing.

I'd also like to point out it's not like we aren't listening. We're not squashing opposing viewpoints, or anything draconian like that. But we've been happy with the performance of the ads and so until that changes, we're sorry, but they shall remain.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Lighten up. Even my girlfriend thinks the chick is hot.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Personally I think the ads with the women on them are stupid. If you're going to try to sell a product, then you should advertise the product. The banner ads that were animated screen shots of the battles were much better.

It's a good thing I'm already playing Dom 3, ads with scantily clad women on them, with text that has too low contrast with the background, and is too small to read anyways, wouldn't have brought me here.

Jazzepi

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

I don't watch much TV, either, although that's more because I find it either depressing or offensively stupid. I'm not sure I'm even going to bother buying a converter box when they switch to all digital broadcasting next February.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

To Ich:
Precisely. It contained all things that you mentioned. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
As for visionaries - frankly, I have enough where I live. And I read Exile, too. So, while you are in good company, you just have no chance of getting a crown in it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif
And direction in which things DO go has enough darker tendencies without seeing one in just black humor of some punks-gone-within-system.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Of course not. I'm not like organizing a protest or embargo or something - I dont expect the opinion of a single person to count for much when weighed against the marketing budget. But if you are actually serious in asking what you should do instead of making a rhetorical platitude, then what you should do is tell your marketing dept to at least make a *head nod* towards actually selling a product rather than pandering to the lowest common denominator.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

I might also point out that someone should keep track of the relative 'for/against' positions. And, as Ironhawk states, a little more thought into the advertising would help avoid future unpleasantness.

However, given Shrapnel's responses in this thread, I can say that they've lost at least one customer.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

You have no idea how many times I clicked those ads

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

And I have no idea what ads have to do with the thing advertised.

A good ad may get me interested, and if I'm interested, I'll buy a game. A bad ad won't make me interested, so I won't buy the game. If I'm interested in a game and see an ad, it doesn't really do anything, does it?

What I don't understand is a bad ad making people NOT buy a game they already are interested in. This last one is what people claim Shrapnel has done. Well, whatever, but to me the ad matters less than the pretty pictures in the cover, and those don't matter at all.


As I said, I have no idea what ads have to do with the advertised product - it existed before the ads, and it will be the same even after the ads. It's the same, nothing has changed. I'm tired and rambling, but why would anyone be interested in ads, except to laugh at them and make fake bog beast plushie ads, which this threads hasn't had at all.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Hunh, wha? So if we announced Dominions IV tomorrow you wouldn't be the least bit interested? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Guys, unless there's an ad running I haven't seen I'd like to point out that (a) All the women are fully clothed. There's not even a bikini-clad model, chainmail or otherwise. About the most 'revealing' article of clothing is a garter. (b) The most suggestive position is laying on a couch. No one is spread eagle, or bending over shot from behind, etc.

The women could very well be selling watches, shoes, or hair care products. They're just silly ads. You're playing a game with blood slaves and false gods in it. Is an attractive (fully clothed) women really something to get in a lather about?

Obviously you guys have already bought the game. If the forum was being flooded with people who don't own the game, discovered us through the ads, and registered just to ***** about the ads that would be rather interesting. But that's not happening, nor I think there is a danger of that occurring.

Relax. Have some fun. Don't like the ads? Block them with your browser. In the history of computer gaming these ads aren't going to be making anyone's Top 10 Offensive Ad Campaign lists...

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

To Ironhawk:
Well, that theory is slightly dead & have been so at least from 90s... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif So no marketing-guy in his right mind (whether THAT's possible is another question) will hear to such a heretical notion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif And you said youself that you understand that the single person's opinion has no chance to be heard... Maybe you should either try for a full-scale campaign or just spit at it & be on your way?
To SRKrol:
And WHY? Chain-mail bikinis are a time-honored tradition, after all... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Lowest common denominator!? Sir, I am offended.
Just because I openly admit that my dream is to play Dom 3 with a scantily clad Salma Hayek does not me a lowest common denonominator.

Sir, have you not yourself ever felt the inclination to gaze upon a beautiful woman? Have your eyes ever lingered overly long at a Budweiser ad. Do not fear the stirrings in your loins and strike out with wrath at the creators of your desire.

We had a senator here who did much the same until he was caught playing footsies in the men's bathroom with a cop.

Nay, let your lustful nature loose and frolic in the woods.

DC of Pangea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

To hear a comment like this from someone attached to Shrapnel only confirms that I really should be losing respect for them. Effectively you have just told me that since I am not a prospective customer you dont care. Great. Good to know.

Now when you actually do release Dom4 or <insert other game I might buy here> I will know to reconsider.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

I have to agree with everyone that says the add is funny. It is so completely tongue-in-cheek I don't see how anybody can find it offensive (unless you don't like girls). But then again tongue in cheek is, by definition, humor in a subtle lack of seriousness.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

I think that some of you are over reacting.

The point of the add isn't so much as using sex to sell the game, but rather using shock value to sell the game. The adds are meant to be ironic, which makes them eye catching ,and funny. I like them.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Unnh, no, I don't think that was my point. All I was saying was that the ads are meant to bring new eyes into the fold and all the complaints in the thread are coming from people who already own the game. If it was truly something so offensive (e.g. "John Romero is going to make you his *****") then I would assume that there would be some sort of furor from folks outside the community. There isn't.

And again, I really don't understand where the hostility comes from towards the ads, or frankly anything in this thread. You have a concern about the ad. Others don't. And then I'm sure there is a huge percentage of people who feel nothing either way. Everyone has an opinion, and everyone's opinion is valid.

Can you honestly say that because you don't like a banner ad campaign you'll have to think about purchasing a game? Not buying a game because the uninstall wipes out your registry, I can see that. Buggy, broken games that never get fixed, I can see that, too. But a banner ad campaign? Really?

I'll leave you guys with a paragraph from the blog regarding the banner ads when they first went up...

"We’re here to sell games. We want people to be aware of our games, and I’m fairly certain our developers want the same thing. We’re always going to be looking for new ways to attract attention and get more eyes on the games. Whether it’s experimenting with social network sites, or running off beat ads, we’re going to try out new methods. See what works and what doesn’t. We’re an independent publisher. We’re not going to ever get the cover article, or be the exclusive story on some cable show. We have to approach things differently. What all this means is that the ads aren’t going anyplace. To those couple of folks who aren’t keen on them, sorry."

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

I'm sorry, but I don't see where Scott is saying we don't care about you as a customer. He's saying that you are not the target audience for the ads.

Of course we care about customers. I think you've been around long enough to know that we continually provide excellent post-purchase support to our customers. I am saddened to think we would lose you, or anyone else, as a customer because of a banner ad running on our site. Please allow me to share some of the feedback we've had just in the past couple of months through our customer support center:



As a 47 year old female, I don't find the ads offensive. I think they're out of the ordinary and bizarre, something that will attract attention. Obviously, our opinions differ, and that's what makes the world go 'round.

At any rate, I hope you would judge us as a company based on the quality of our product and the service we have provided you - not on an ad and the subsequent discussion of such ad.
We apologize that our banner ads offend you.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

I am offended that none of the follow-up ads has come anywhere near the first.

1. The woman in the first ad was arguably better looking.

2. The first add had a strategically placed cushion. None of the rest do, and
Dominions is a strategy game.

3. The woman in the first ad looked Scandinavian. Dominions is a Swedish game, right?

4. The ATF ad has all the recent Dominions ads beaten. Our game is better, why
don't we get a gun or a helmet or at least milk?

I demand a new Dominions add with a Bog Monster, and a sword, and blood. And the
lady from the first ad. Or I will never pay for a sixth copy of Dominions III. Unless
I make another geeky friend.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Bog beast? Did anyone say bog beast? I LOVE bog beasts!

Seriously, Shrapnel Games have my utmost respect. Saying that they don't care about the customer is just plain wrong as they are now on the boards caring for us. They are great guys you know. In fact I haven't found a company made up of nicer and more professional people than those with Shrapnel Games.

Thank you.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

LOL! Now we found the missing link of the ad to Dominions!

The third ad with only the legs could be some of the missing parts of Holger the Head. Or is she/he/it wearing Chi shoes? Who knows.

All I want to say about the ads is, that they gave me some good laughs in the forum discussions (e.g. the bog beasts and the quoted post).

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

I can honestly say that the current ad campaign made me hesitate before referring someone to this site for information. That has never happened here before.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Wow http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Not me. Those ads make me laugh, and pleased some more folks also. They are fun because they are "out of topic".

Come on, boys, showing a woman in an ad is NOT evil. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Agreed. I fully admit to not only liking to look at attractive women, scantily clad or not, but that the whole thing here is amusing and interesting and certainly not offensive.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

The adds don’t fit in with the style of the rest of the site. It jars. I think this is part of the reaction, it isn’t the Shrapnel style.

Ladies in game ads, not a problem. Check out the cleavage on some of the characters I have played in various RPG!

Legal point. I hope you have permission to use the images, as I suspect they were not specifically captured for your ads. That is the only real possible problem I can see. Well, beyond the fact this thread is overly long for no good reason.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Wrong! It is the site that isn't in style with the ads! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Yes. I've actually said it twice now. Its even a thorn in my side every time I come to check the forums http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Some think the ad is funny - I can see thier position but still I point out: where is the punch line? Where is - as other posters have humorously mentioned - the "bog beast plushie"? While I appreciate sarcasm as much as the next person, this one falls flat.

Others think that the ad is not suggestive... ummm, well you do know that you can be sexually suggestive without just popping your t*ts out, right? I'm not saying the ad is pornographic or that the girl is not hot, simply that it is in particularly bad taste and has not even a flimsy attachment to the subject material it purports to "advertise".

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

"The world needs more beautiful women".

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

I find some of the reactions to the ads puzzling. My own reaction to them was a straightforward

"WTF?! *ponders* Oookayy... That's unusual..."

But that was it. I didn't feel like Shrapnel was disregarding or disrespecting its customers. Ads generally do little for me. This series of ads is one of the few I've even noticed for years. The only other one I can consider memorable is one of the TV ads for a product of the company I work for and that one sent the blood pressure of everyone working in the tech support department spiking to the 500 range.

The response from some people here has me absolutely stupefied because when I read the arguments, the only output I get when trying to process them is "Does not compute". Perhaps that's just me, though. *shrug*

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

I should imagine that a company in the entertainment industry would have some concern for the values and image it chooses to project. Certainly us private citizens often enough care of right, wrong, and what others think of us. It is your privilege to weigh the eyeballs earned by exploitative marketing against the reputation hit your company takes in the eyes of those who care, and then act according to your estimation. This does not speak well of your morality to those who care about the issue.

Whether the majority of your customers care about this matter or even whether your company might benefit from this business practice is, however, beside the point when the concerned segment comes to complain. We are telling you that some of your customers feel estranged by the choices the company makes. There being people who do not care of this issue or even favour exploitative marketing does not make this complaint any less significant for those who do care, it only makes the complaint matter less in the eyes of a company that cares more of the bottom-line than good corporate citizenship.

Frivolously dismissing actual customer feedback is, again, your prerogative, even if many businesses would value and weigh heavily such grassroots signals that might reflect significant issues for large customer segments. You do not even have to pretend to care of the issue, you may well decide to scoff upon the concerns raised here – that will win you no favour with the offended customers, but perhaps there are other rewards, like seeming decisive and confident in your public relations decisions. Or perhaps you have numerous customers for whom 19th century attitudes to objectification of women are a selling point?

Personally, however, I am taken back by both this campaign and this seemingly rash attitude. I find it difficult to believe that I see you defending sexist and blatantly improper exploitation here in this thread. One would – one should – think that such would hardly be beneficial to a company at all interested in its public image.

I can’t speak for others here, but for myself I can say that I object rather strongly, even hostilely, to objectification of women in service of crass consumerism. The gaming hobby has a dark history in this regard and while these advertisements might be appropriate (if transparent) for furniture, lipstick or women’s shoes, in service of a fantasy adventure game they are pure exploitation. Neither the visual style nor content matter here bears even passing relation to the advertised product; this is most clear-cut as a case of female exploitation. Similar advertisement campaigns have been judged in Finnish courts as demeaning and patently offensive, unfit for public consumption.

To put it more simply, I have no desire to associate myself with this travesty of modern marketing, and while others are of course entitled to their own values, I do not like these values displayed in places I frequent or make purchases in.

And what's up with this double-speak? Are you trying to intimate that you are not sorry for your actions, but regret that some are offended? You have no claim to an apology for the latter without regretting the former, you know – I for one am not inclined to forgive you when you do not even confess that there is room for offence in what you have done here. The first step to conciliation is seeking common ground; false humility does not become anyone.

For the consumer who might be reading this I’d like to point out that you are not without a voice when corporations choose not to heed your moral norms: not only can we be unambiguous in making clear our stance, but we can also make our own choices in the marketplace. If you feel strongly about sexual exploitation in gaming and the marketplace (or other corporate citizenship issues for that matter), then let the offending companies know what you as a community member expect of them. In the short term the company might prefer that no voice be raised in critique (they are all infallible, after all), but you do no service to any party by staying quiet: if their own sense does not tell them what is good and proper, they will not learn from your passivity.

And should the company scoff at your concerns (as seems to be the case here, at least for now), you may well opt to vote with your wallet, as they say. There are other games to play besides Dominions (I’m partial to doing some internet Diplomacy this summer, myself) and there are other communities for discussing the game as well. They have the right to choose their methods of advertisement, and you have the right to choose whether to give them your business, it's as simple as that.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Or men, and I'm not talking about fat'n'hairy porn stars put in as a gag. I want boys so pretty that they'd make straight men go gay. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

So Jurri, what do you do if some "concerned segment" gets offended by blood sacrifice of virgins in the game? Take 'em out?

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

All right folks, just to prove that we do listen we'll be launching a new ad campaign soon. It will still feature beautiful women hawking Dominions 3 but they will be clad in burkas so as not to offend anyone. How about that as a compromise?

Finally I'd just like to point out that we're running ATF ads in the same vein and yet I don't think we've had one person worry about those. I guess that's just a different crowd.

And with that I don't think there's anything more I can add to this discussion. Everyone play nice now...

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Yay, burkas!

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

That's great Krol! Let me know when you get those out.

Before you go I'd just like to say thanks for not understanding and for being disrespectful. You did a bang-up job of representing Shrapnel!

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

This is in reponse to Jurri's post:

Sure we do. Howvever, that does not mean that our values are your values. We would have a hard time doing anything if we tried to please everyone. In fact, it is impossible. The negative response to these ads pale in comparison to those who have written us about being 'sacriligous', 'warmongers', and just all around bad citizens of the planet earth for publishing wargames and fantasy products that truly offend the far right christians.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

We know. Hardly a day goes by when someone is not offended by something we do. So should we close the business, because people everyday are offended by the choices we make as a company?

All I can say is that it must be hard for you living in the world we do with that attitude.

Well another thing that we will have to disagree on. I don't see where Scott or Annette did anything frivolous in this thread. The only mistake they made was jumping in this thread in the first place. And attacking them really doesn't solve anything. The person you should be attacking is me. I am the only person in this company that is responsible for what we advertise and how we choose to advertise it.

So, let me get this straight. I don't agree with your position, so I am scoffing at it? That's a leap don't you think?

I wonder if the women portrayed in the ads, who are professional models and were payed for their time, would agree with that statement. We should have asked! Funny, I never even considered asking such a question.

You must have a hard time buying almost anything. Cars, beer, cleaning products, vacuum cleaners - I just saw a commercial last night for a vacuum cleaner that showed a woman in a white silk dress vacuuming the floor. Now, I have seen my wife, my mother, my friends wives and mothers, my girlfriends, and various other relatives vacuum many floors. And know what, in 50 years I have never seen one woman vacuum the floor in a white silk dress cut three inches above the knee with a neckline so plunging that it was hard to imagine just how everything was staying in place with that extreme back and forth movement. I wish I could rememeber the manufacturer of the product, because I am sure that that is one you would want to steer clear of.

Objectification of women? Don't the women have to decide for themselves if they are being obgjectificated? I mean, the vacuum lady was smiling, and appeared quite happy. I wonder if that was because she was probably making $200 an hour to vacuum some floor that probably wasn't that dirty to begin with. I know my wife doesn't smile like that when she vacuums our floor. My wife probably feels more obgjectificated. Of course, my wife doesn't make $200 an hour to vacuum our floor.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif Well we were going to blood sacrifice some virgins for the ads, but we couldn't find any. (Thanks vfb)

Exactly. Pssst, I let you in on a little secret... that's the point.

Wow! Really?


Okay. I am sure there are those here that will miss you but we understand your position now.

What a load of crap. We had a customer write in that it has been two weeks and he has still not recieved his game. Obviously it was lost in the mail. Now I personally am sorry that he has had problems and we as a company are sorry he had trouble; we know how frustrating that can be. So we can't apologize to the customer unless we regret sending him the game in the first place? Well, we did apologize and I am pretty darn sure we meant it. And we sent him another game, so obviously we didn't regret it.

Neither does false indignation.

Do you get the point of that statement?

If you don't like the ads, don't buy our products and don't frequent our site. Pretty simple really.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

I agree with the posting by Tim Brooks.

I stayed out of this because I could not figure out why so many people were indignant about ads that are similar to the cover photgraphs I see on magazines in the supermarket checkout line.

A key principle of the game is capturing slaves and sacrificing them. I have never seen threads complaining about this. I'm fairly sure this concept should be more abhorrent to many more people than slightly provocative pictures of attractive women. And I can see more exposed female flesh in 2 minutes at the local mall than these inoffensive pictures depict.

I'm also sure that if you limit your purchases to goods that do not use attractive people in their ads you are probably limited to buying 10 penny nails, Draino and white socks.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Seems to me there's quite a few people who won't be buying any shrapnel products in the future, based on the adverts and the two threads they've spawned.

I don't want to say that of myself, because I wasn't about to buy any of your products beyond the Dominions series, so it would be a bit hollow. However as a user of these forums I am thoroughly unimpressed by Shrapnel's response in this thread. Half your responses seem to be mocking or purposely misreading objections raised. Case in point, the idea that the amount paid to the models or their willingness to do the job has anything to do with whether the adverts objectify women. Either you're trying to make a seriously flawed and childish argument or you're mocking a concerned customer.

I expect if I do get a response it will essentially be 'I don't care what you think' mixed with a charge of 'false indignation' and an invitation to leave your forums. I do not wish to leave because I really like the community here. My opinion of Shrapnel has done a total 180 though.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Dominions allows you to kill people by the thousands including sacrificing virgins. This game allows you to practice magic, and become a god. There is nothing wholesome about this game in the traditional sense. Yet, clothed women put in a little banner with the words "I want my Dominions" offends you all?

I am absolutely amazed that people find violence and murder more acceptable than sexuality. It reminds me of where Hillary Clinton freaked out over GTA. She wasn't angry that you could run around town killing old ladies with a shotgun. She wasn't disgusted by the fact that the primary character is a drug dealer, car thief etc. What offended her was the possibility you could download a mod a view a sexual scene in the game.

Most people will have sex at least once in their lives I hope. While I would hope no one ever has to kill anyone, sacrifice a virgin, or attempt to ascend to god hood through murder of their neighbors. Yet, in our societies, sexuality is more taboo than these other things. Makes no sense at all, period.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Yes, it is. Most of us recognize that complaining about it isn't going to make one whit of difference, though, so we don't bother.I already own every available Shrapnel product that I'm interested in, and there's only one more thing in the pipeline that I was planning to buy before this sophomoric ad campaign started.

If I didn't feel that monitoring the Space Empires forum was part of my "duties" as an admin for the Play-By-Web site, I would cut back on my visits to Shrapnel's site until this travesty burned itself out.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

I fully agree with foodstamp, and others saying that they can't see the point about complaining on a relatively decent (hey, they're dressed, ever seen a shampoo ad on TV ?) advertisment, when I spend my games killing thousands of people, sacrificing virgins and sending my succubus seduce commanders (I guess they have to do more than a single smile...).

Oh my god, a woman showing her legs ! And this one doesn't have her tchador on ! She's looking at me in the eyes ! I'll call the pope right now, he'll excomunicate all those heretics at shrapnel games !!

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

So your argument is that complaining about these adverts and playing Dominions 3 means we find violence and murder more acceptable than sexuality? That's ridiculous.

You might have a point if Dominions was using violence, sex and blood sacrifice in a crude and exploitative way to sell copies to idiots. If it was like Postal or a porn game or something,.. but it isn't. It's essentially a fantasy strategy game. It isn't /about/ gratuitous violence. You might have an argument that GTA is, though I would definitely take issue with that too.

These adverts are clear cut. They have nothing to do with dominions or any of its themes. They are just lame sexploitation. And yeah, that's common enough in the industry and beyond. Is that reason to accept it now it's been brought to Dominions 3?

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

I have to say I have only just now begun to accept that some people have really, truly been offended by these ads. I thought the complaints were extrapolated and out of proportion, but I think people really meant them - and have really meant them for over four weeks.


I have trouble finding anything offensive about the ads, so if my earlier comments belittled your opinions and you were offended, I'd like to apologize. I don't understand what this is all about, and I have a feeling I'm not the only one. I think I might have to read both threads and see if I can find what this is all about, by reading everything as if it was written without a hint of humour or sarcasm.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Come on Sombre. The last three Dominions ads before the "I want my Dominions 3 campaign" showed two factions in battle, a lightening bolt burning up a row of warriors, and a spell being cast to burn up a group of warriors.

Here's some interesting numbers (I am showing this to you guys because I know alot of you are interested in how things work in this crazy business):

First a little background - these are industry wide numbers. An average banner ad campaign will recieve between .10 and .20 percent clickthrus. That is 1/10 of one percent to 2/10 of 1 percent. A campaign is considered successful if it receves .30-.40 percent clickthrus and the top campaings come in at around .50 percent clickthrus.

Now, the last four Dominions 3 banners from January thru March 2008 received an average clickthru rate of .15% with the top banner receiving .20%.

The "I want my Dominions 3" campaign started April 1. We have run 4 banners so far. The average clickthru rate for these banners is .65%!!! The top performing banner's clickthru rate is 1.19%!!!

Since the start of the "I want my Dominions 3" campaign Dominions 3 pageviews are up 53% over the last three months combined. That works out to a 354% increase if taken on a monthly (average) basis. Sales of Dominions 3 are up 20% over last month - and last month Dominions 3 was a monthly special at $7.00 off (I think that was the sale amount).

Now, you can be offended by the ads, that is your right. And you can think less of Shrapnel Games, that is also your right. But the bottom line is that Shrapnel Games is in business to sell games There are many reasons why a developer will choose, or not choose, us to publish their game. But the bottom line is sales, period. If we lose a developer because we offend their sensibilities, well that is too bad, but for a publisher it is much worse if we lose a developer becuase we can't meet or exceed their expectations on sales.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Yeah, they showed actual gameplay. They gave an idea of what dom3 is about. Spells, armies, formations of troops fighting huge gods and monsters. If those ads were about using gratuitous violence to sell the product they would have used completely unrelated violent material, just as the current ads use completely unrelated pictures of women.

I can't believe you're seriously comparing the two sets of ads or suggesting the former ones were all about violence. If you had to describe dominions in a few key words, would violent or bloody be amongst them? It would be fair for plenty of games which actually DO use gratuitous violence to sell, but not dom3.

On a related note: Have you actually played dominions 3? I'm starting to doubt it.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

Ahh, gratuitous violence. I was hung up on the violence word. I see now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Well yea, since that was what we were advertising. You know it is very hard to advertise the strategy element of a game. Unless we used a couple of people deep in thought, but then they would be "unrelated pictures" of people which is also taboo. Or are you suggesting that beautiful women may not want their Dominions 3?

Okay, I am just having a go at you. Sorry. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

The last I'll say here is what I tell all the people who write us each month saying we are heretics and doing the devils work by publishing fantasy and role playing games:

Opinions vary, please feel free not to support us.

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

I can't speak for the others who are annoyed by the ad campaign, but I can tell you why I do not like it: not because it is offensive (as you say, the image is tame), but because it is insulting. The ad is basically saying "We know our target audience, and we think they are shallow enough that the best way to lure them in is with a cheesecake shot and a generic quote". Now, maybe it's true. Probably it is true, which is why you are finding so many people who are overreacting to it -- nothing hurts like the truth. But regardless of whether it's true, there is a perceived insult there.

(And don't try with the "you're not our target audience; you already bought the game!" line again. In a technical sense it is true, but all of us were part of that target audience at one point, and buying Dominions didn't magically grant us a resistence to pretty ladies.)

Re: What is the story with those dominion ads??
 

and

DryaUnda & Tuidjy:

Marketing asked me to inform you that they are listening. Check back on Sunday...