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Re: Russian units v4

I really have no idea what either of you are talking about:doh:
But interesting nonetheless,:popcorn:

Re: Russian units v4

Please explain how a little story about Glock-17 or grenade F-1 answers my question ??

The "SNAR" and the vehicle formerly named "ACRV" are not the same vehicle nor do they have the same use on the battlefield and the NATO codenames for both are entierly different

From the Net.

The first quotes is from Janes and the second from globalsecurity. The SNAR 10 is not the same vehicle as the "ACRV" . The closest I can see is the "ACRV" would be properly known as the 1V12

Quote:

Title
SNAR-10 surveillance radar (Russian Federation)

Type
K-band (20 to 40 GHz) battlefield surveillance radar. NATO reporting name
Big Fred.

Description
SNAR-10 is a widely deployed battlefield surveillance radar system, mounted
on a self-propelled, armoured vehicle. It is designed to locate stationary
and moving targets at the forward edge of the battle area.The radar operates
at a frequency of about 35 GHz and is capable of scanning the terrain in
both a horizontal and vertical mode. This is done by tipping the antenna,
thereby overseeing a large area. The dipping antenna is designated as the
IRL-127-1.The radar is a 2-D pulse-Doppler equipment, with the complete
system, except the power supply, being installed inside the turret of the
vehicle. At the rear of the turret is the rectangular reflector of the
antenna system which is almost as wide as the vehicle. On the move the
reflector is folded forward on top of the turret and can be covered by a
hood. For surveillance work the reflector is erected electromechanically.
The narrow radar beam (0.36º wide and 1.3º high) is continuously revolving
in a sector of ±13.2º. It can also transmit without scanning a particular
sector. In this case the beam sits in the middle of the reflector.The radar
works as either a pulse radar or a Doppler radar, the operator making the
selection. In the pulse mode it is impossible to distinguish between
stationary and moving targets. To detect moving objects, especially beyond
the forward line of troops, the Doppler mode is required. If the entire
battlefield is to be searched for targets the sector-search mode is used.
The revolving radar beam

Quote:

1V12 ACRV. 1V12 is the overall designation of four armored command
reconnaissance vehicles: 1V13 (Figure 2-1), 1V14, 1V15, and 1V16. All four
use the MT-LB chassis.

a. Variants.

(1) ACRV 1V13. The 1V13 has a 12.7-mm DShK anti-aircraft machine gun mounted
atop the turret and a rectangular box projecting from the hull just below
the turret. The ACRV 1V13 remains in the battery firing position as the
battery fire direction center (FDC) relaying firing data to the SP
howitzers.

(2) ACRV 1V14/1V15. The turrets on these two versions are fitted with a
laser rangefinder, optical observation devices and associated fire-control
equipment. They also have a rectangular box projecting from the hull just
below the turret. The ACRV 1V14 and 1V15 serve as battery and battalion
commanders' COPs, respectively, and do not remain in the firing position.

(3) ACRV 1V16. The 1V16 may be fitted with a 12.7-mm machine gun while
eliminating the rectangular box that projects from the hull just below the
turret on the other three versions. The ACRV 1V16 functions as the battalion
FDC.

Re: Russian units v4

My error.
Absolutely with you it agree are different systems.
The chassis at these systems identical - MT-LB.

From the point of view of directly artillery investigation (FO) - more all approaches to it is SNAR-10 (Stantsiya Nazemnoy Artilleriyskoy Razvedki - in English = station of land artillery investigation) and series systems PRP (Peredvizhnoy Razvedyvatelniy Punkt - in English - mobile prospecting point). Systems 1V13... 15 are systems of command and a fire control. They and are called - control systems. But they too can calculate a site of another's artillery, etc.
I will agree that it is enough complicated question with these systems and I could not find till now exact data how actually these systems were used.
But I think till now, that if you wish to leave these systems in game it is necessary to change at them name ACRV - on 1V13 or 1V14 etc.

Re: Russian units v4

non-related subject

In your notes you have this :

Quote:

11. weapon 030 - 122mm M30 L22 - in game it is used SU-122. Su-122 with such weapon were issued in the USSR from December, 1942 till August, 1943 - all 638 pieces have been let out. Quantity SU-122 with such weapon has remained and till the end of war, but already were issued as well others SU-122 with other weapon. I am assured this weapon it is necessary to clean.

The SU-122 with the original gun may very well have disappeared from the Russian inventory right after the end of WW2. There were, after all, much better vehicles that did the same job better. The ISU-122 is one example.

However, I noted in the SPR OOB you have a version of the su-122 mounting a the D-25 gun in slot 258. There was a variant that was tested during the war using the D-25 but it never made it into production

Quote:

http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?...mid=50&lang=en

SU-122P

SU-122P. (M.Svirin)
In autumn 1944, due to delaying the mass production of the SU-100, the Uralmash's Design Bureau offered a project of a tank destroyer based on the SU-100. Like the SU-85M, this vehicle was the common SU-100 but armed with a 122 mm Tank Gun D-25S. Such modernisation was possible due to unified fastening of both guns.

The very first trials of the SU-122P conducted in October 1944, after that the vehicle was sent to the Governmental trials which were passed as well. By the results of both trials, the SU-122P was recommended for service, but it didn't mostly because of slow rate of fire.

The SU-122-54 ( or IT-122 ) came later and I have added it and a new Icon for it to the game. From what I can see the old SU-122 with the L22 gun disappeared from service by 1946 and I have removed it from the OOB and used that weapon slot for the SU-122-54

Also......

I've spent a considerable amount of time working on the Russian OOB and all the other OOB's that making a change to the Russian OOB affects. I noted the SPR OOB had a number of formations nationalized to zero that were not attached to a larger formation. Nationalizing to zero is fine but unless you give them a home they will never show up in the game. You may have already corrected this but a couple of examples are F518, F521, F524, F521 I'm sure there are others I just don't have time ATM to list them all. None of those will show up in the game. It may be they were built and the decision was made to not included them but it may also be they were intended to be used in Company type formations and forgotten about OR they were intended to be correctly nationalized but set to zero in error

Don

Re: Russian units v4

I will attentively study the information on SU-122. While I am not ready to speak on this theme since studied this question very much for a long time (it is necessary to study all my archives).

On formations.

Basically we specified 0 for parametre of the country for formations which should be accessible as a part of other formations and should not be accessible in the basic screen of purchase of armies. Also there there are some formations with parametre 0 for the country which do not enter more not into what other formations, but we have cleaned them from the basic screen of purchase of armies that this screen did not take a lot of place (you can return them in the screen of purchase or I can give the corrected variant of formations).

I have archives of several sites on organizational-regular structure of some our kinds of armies. But all of them in Russian yet the worthy translation into English also is not ready. If to you I can interestingly send them to you in Russian.

Re: Russian units v4

Maxim

I was just pointing out you had formations in the SPR OOB that were set up as nation zero that were not being used by a larger formation and I understand the concept of hiding small formations from the purchase screen that are only used by larger formations. We've been doing that for years. There are a number of reasons this could happen and I understand all of them. It's possible they were set to zero in error or it is possible the larger formation that was supposed to use them was forgotten about or eliminated and these were forgotten about. The point is there are a number of them in the SPR OOB and they can be found easily enough with MOBHacks data base checker "platoon finder" All the ones nationalized to zero are flagged and clicking on them will tell you if they are being used by a larger formation. If they are not being used they won't show up in the game

Don

Re: Russian units v4

Maxim

I need documentation on the use of SU-122's as SP-arty. The SPR OOB uses them that way from 1946- 1969. I'm quite happy to add them to the official OOB in that capacity with some further information

Don

Re: Russian units v4

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 678825)

Do you mean SU-122s specifically or even JSU-122s?

The latter at least were used for such missions.
http://www.battlefield.ru/content/view/40/45/lang,en/

Quote:

Time to time, JSU's used for artillery missions because they were able for both direct and indirect fire. In particular, during the Sandomir-Silesia offensive operation, the 368th Guards OTSAP of the 1st Ukrainian Front was assigned for artillery mission and for 107 minutes the regiment fired 980 shells.

As a result, two German mortar batteries were destroyed as well as other 8 German guns, about one German infantry battalion was wiped out. Interesting to note, that additional rounds were placed at the vehicles, but anyway, JSU's used their "internal" ammunition first. Otherwise, rate of fire become slower because it takes up to 40 minutes to load 20 rounds into the vehicle.

Re: Russian units v4

Lot's of tanks have been used for indirect fire missions. The Sherman was often used in that role but I'm not interested in ad hoc useage of a vehicle.

However..... if the SU-122 ( the old one with the short M-30 gun ) was included in the TO&E of the SP arty units well after the war ended I will be :)happy:) to include it as "SP-Arty" but not if it was only used in that role when nothing else was available otherwise every OOB would be filled with tanks and SP guns as "SP-Arty" becasue someone could say they were pressed into service like that on occasion.

Bottome line- was it's primary role post war as SP-Arty used in an indirect fire role and not "assault gun" ??

Don

Re: Russian units v4

Dear Don.

SU-122 - It is necessary to clean from game since after WW2 they any more were not on arms. After WW2 on arms were in the mid-fifties made SU-122-54 by small party 77-95 units.

link:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...hlight=russian

Here we already discussed on this theme.

==============

As to use SU-122 as SP Howitzer is a truth. They were used as artillery and as assault gun.

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%A3-122

Here a translation into English of the first paragraph:

"SU-122 is average on weight the Soviet samohodno-artillery installation (SPG), belonging to the class of assault guns (with some restrictions it could be used and as a self-propelled howitzer). For the first time have been applied on February, 14th, 1943 in region Smerdyni as a part of 1433 and 1434 SAP in private operation 54A on the Volkhov front."

Best regards

Re: Russian units v4

It seems that as policy the soviets made their tanks and assault guns capable of at least some indirect fire if possible.
For example T-55s can fire indirect fire missions too; the iraqis were particulalry fond of this tactic.

EDIT
I missed the replies.
I would doubt that SU-122s, JSU-122s etc. were ever set up as dedicated indirect fire assets in the way you mean. They were far from being optimized for such job.

Re: Russian units v4

Yes Maxim, I know about the SU-122-54 and yes I know anything with a gun could be used as SP arty but I wanted to know if these were used SPECIFICALLY that way after the war. Apparently not. They have been removed

You might want to make a note to remove them from the SPR OOB as well
Don

Re: Russian units v4

The closest equivalent to their role as "SP-Arty" would be IMO Z-firing them. After all I doubth that even if used as makeshift arty, they were on arty network, able to shift quickly fire etc. - rather they were fixed in the indirect fire to one specific spot.

Re: Russian units v4

New Question

The SPR OOB shows an arty FO in 1977 with 50 TI/GSR rating. That seems just a bit early for a man portable unit.

???

Don

Re: Russian units v4

AFAIK the PSNR-5 radar (as used on BRM-1 and others) was designed as "dismountable", but not sure about portability - here is the radar in dismounted config, but for use with vehicles it was only the active unit and screens etc. remained in the vehicle - guess the whole complet was really rather heavy for "backpacking" - would need a movement penalty and a dedicated vehicle.

http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/37930

Re: Russian units v4

http://milparade.udm.ru/27/060.htm
http://talks.guns.ru/forum_light_message/42/135080.html
http://www.vif2ne.ru/nvk/forum/arhprint/61099

Photo and the small information

The first portable updatings have appeared in 1966 (PSNR-1). For an example American PPS-5 - 46 kg (1967) for service weigh 3 persons are required, PPS-15 weighs only 8 kg (1973). Unfortunately I have not found exact weight PSNR-5 etc. In everyone scout company is at least 1 PSNR-5 or its analogues and a minimum 3 SBR-3 "FARA" or its analogues. GSR SBR-3 "FARA" - weighs about 16 kg - for service 1 person is necessary.

PSNR - Perenosnaya Stantsiya Nazemnoy Razvedki - in English - Portable Station Ground Investigation or portable ground surveillance radar.

SBR - Stantsiya Blizhney Razvedki - in English - Station Near Investigation or short-range surveillance radar

SBR-1 FARA - can couple with weapons (for example 12.7mm NSV or AGS-17)

Sorry for my bad English.