Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

The testing which I did before writing the guide revealed the same kinds of results. Hydra's are so strong that they really dont benefit from any of the traditionally strong blesses like W/F. I am surprised tho that you would even consider Astral bless tho - the heads of the Hydra are basically the same effect as Twist Fate so its a lot of points wasted IMO.

The bless that I ended up using in my game was A4/W4/E4 and I found it surprisingly powerful and nicely cheap! Particular when the Hydras were accompained by a good pois-res army and, later in the game, buffed somewhat.

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

I think F/W might indeed be too much.. but just F9 makes it stronger late age, magic weapon, better against SC and just general high defense troops.

A 4 seems.. well weakish.. of course it's nearly free but why settle for 20% airshield when arrows are your main point of weakness
(and in my test game.. they are tehy really are.. not to mention the fact that the mages tend to die on stray arrows as well.)
I think that .. if you decide to really focus on hydra a good bless can be worth it.. and I think it's either A7-8-9
with F9 or W9 (W9 stronger against masses of chaff and F 9 stronger against stronger opponents --> I think W9 is less needed.. even 4 hydra's close together do indeed kill a lot of what is in front of them.. I think a lot of attacks will be wasted) and if possible (but that is hard the E4)

The mages will benefit from this too.

I wanted to buff my hyrda's (body ethereal) ASAP but it's hard doing it right.. the mage always buffs himself first and then one hydra and after that the hydra's are gone... so you need more mages, which makes the investment a lil annnoying on your research..

I'm gonna try 1 mage, 2 hydra armies trying to get them both ethreal and see fi they remain killers..

in my test SP game I was hit hard by my mighty neighbour after I decided to war him .. tien chi with it's horsearchers is pretty annoying w/o air bless...

I'll try again soon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

A4 wasnt entirely for the bless, that was just a bonus side effect. The intent of A4 was access to air boosters for Arrow Fend, Staves of Storms, and eventual summoning of air queens.

Its your call to try a F9 bless, but IMO you will find the results very disappointing in the late game. The correct way to counter SCs is to build your own or use mages. If you try a W9 bless you will need an earth bless to balance out your fatigue.

You have to keep in mind what you are losing when you tries these high blesses tho. How will you fund your Hydras with the bad scales you need to take for a high bless - they cost a fortune! Plus, how will you build your regular armies without Production? Where will your earth magic come from to build Hammers?

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

I thought the same at first, but as I said: it showed up to make a huge difference. Yes the twist fate is a bit similar to the heads, that is what makes it powerful. Hydras often get attacked first and then gets to counterattack. Having all the heads left makes a big difference. It also reduces the number of permanently beheaded hydras a lot. try yourself.

I would also recomend A6D9. Tried it and it works great. But I still think astral wins the day in late game.

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

I wonder.. does each form of rth hydra get the twist fate or is it really gone after the first hit? That would be the only reason I can see astral being as good as you say it is.

There are no permanently beheaded hydra's with the correct mod

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

Yes, in the next patch, Sacred Hydras will always fully recuperate after each battle. (There is also a mod for it.)

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

No the twist fate is only for the first head. Still I say astral is a good bless for hydras, but why argue?

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

Not actually proposing it as a serious strategy, but does the death of each hydra head provoke a curse attempt from a B9 bless?

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

The only time I tried LAP I took A7/E6 and rather recommand it.

The titan start with these path, so you can have decent income and magic scales (ie order 3, growth 1, misf 2, magic 1) taking a low dominion (4) with a dormant titan (or a stronger dominion with an imprisoned one).

Then the bless is excellent for both hydras and mages, and the paths allow your pretender to forge hammers and boosters, protect even more hydras against arrow with storm etc, and use the terrific rain of stones.

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

Twan I was just about to try something like that.. E4 or 6 and A somewhere highish since every arrow turned is good.. 8 or 9 might be a bit high since there are no spells to cast with that requirement I think.. shock resistance might be nice though. but maybe a bit expensive to do it just for that.

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

Yeah that bless would work well. Tho why A7 instead of A6 is puzzling. Whatever bless you take you definitely want Earth because its vital to keep your Hydras fighting but also sweet for the hordes of sacred mages that LA Pyth has.

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

So, I was wondering about something the other day....

Does the increased affliction chance of a death bless carry over into the poison damage from Foul Vapors?? I *believe* that with direct damage spells like Earthquak or Rain of Stones, it does. But Foul Vapors has sort of indirect damage in that it poisons the units and then the poison does the damage.

Does anyone know?

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

I know a death bless increases the affliction chance for Flame Storm--I tested that one extensively last year. It's possible that Foul Vapors is different because it's poison, but it won't be because it's a BE.

Edit: My suspicion is that every damage source has some kind of pointer back to its origin, and that's why D blessings work on spells. I know that KO was surprised to learn about this effect. Anyway, that makes me suspect that poison is probably no different, and that Foul Vapors will benefit from D blessings.

-Max

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

I want to point out serpent acolytes, with 50% poison resistance, are the cheapest commanders for hydra armies. They can cast resist poison and get 100% PR before being hurt by their pets, and bless them on the following round.
If you're short on money, you can afford one of the dorks instead of a serpent priest if that means one more hydra that turn.

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

Nope, you cant use Acolytes in this way. Mages refuse to cast Poison Resistance on themselves if they are already at 50% or above poison resistance. Additionally, spells which confer poison resistance (like Serpent's Blessing) have no effect on units with 50% resistance already.

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

Hmm, that seems really inconvenient to be unable to boost your poison resistance from 50% to 100% or more with a spell.

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

Very much so. If you could boost from 50% -> 100% you wouldnt need any of these fancy strategies to make a poison immune army. You could just find a swamp and recruit lizard warriors. But alas, you can't.

As far as I know, the resistance buffing is WAD. Anyone know otherwise?

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

Aren't all the other resistance buffs stackable? Why would poison be different?

-Max

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

What's a WAD?

You could in theory reduce your PR with Invulnerability, then boost it back up with Resist Poison, but I'm not sure how useful this is.

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

Works As Designed.

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

Ohh never noticed that, but it's true.

I find rather strange that a mage starting with 50% PR ends weaker against poison than a mage starting with 0 (when the 2 can cast the spell).

If it's wad, it's hum.... a very strange design decision.

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

Now I'm experimenting with a A7 (and i take that over A6 cus it gives extra effect and I had the points for it) and E6 and I notice that while I now totally chew through anything which shoots heavy cavalry is getting nastier.. I think the heavy attack bonus and AP from F9 makes a huge difference here.

Maybe Fire and air (on a nice immortal phoenix chassis) might be a nicer way to go.

Also the mages seem to be a weak point in the strategy.. sometimes falling to stray arrows (before bless is up) autorouting the hydra's and then in early expansion you have to wait till another mage gets there to start again...
not to mention that any huge army will still be lethal in the end.. All cash goes into hydra's but you need more mages out with the armies then other nations early in the game (less research) and you still those 2-3 hydra armies might not be all that against an opponent trying to take you down. (I'd like to test it in a MP game though when I find my "perfect" bless for the hydra.)

Without bless I'm not yet convinced (as OP) that hydra's are worth all the effort and cash with LA pythium except for maybe one early expansion/anti-SC protection. (and since I'm not all that impressed by the rest of the nation that would just mean it's a weak nation over-all)

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

Aezeal, I'm surprised at your comment that LA Pythium could be a weak nation. You were playing in the game Epotara where I devised the strategies laid out in this guide - the game which I then proceeded to win with the Serpent Cult against great odds. I think in your efforts to find this "perfect" bless you are overlooking this?

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

False. I did it and it works.

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

Immaterial. Serpent Priests should lead Hydras, nothing else.

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

In fact it's just a question of spell AI priority, it seems individual resists cast by a mage with 50% resistance can often be overwritten. But it's not a rule.

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

Maybe if you have more spells it'will cast those.. if it's not full prove it's quite dangerour to mess around with though

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

Hmm, interesting! So LDiCesare, how did you get the game to cast it then? It refused in every attempt I made. The result was 100% PR?

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

I probably didn't have any other spell to cast except blessing, since I researched for that spell and it was in the early game.
Later I use serpent priests anyway.

Re: A Poisoner\'s Guide to LA Pythium
 

I checked with some research. The only other spells the mage could cast on its own are elemental fortitude and heal, I tested all other available spells and the acolyte still casts resist poison on 1st round.
Now, if you give him gems he may do silly things with them, but that remains unlikely.
So acolytes are very good to lead up to 10 hydras, as you want them to move every turn early on, not pausing to site-search/preach/whatever, to just take on armies. Serpent priests only offer faster bless, which amounts to zilch, for an additional 120 gold + upkeep (about half an hydra!).