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Re: Why the average publisher isn\'t much better th
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The truth has claws. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif I wasn't going to drag this thread around anymore, but thanks for hitting the part about the Reign of the Pointlessly Long Series. If Moby Dick or War and Peace were written today, they'd be split in 3 without hesitation. Then the publisher would ask for more. They would then beg for -anything- with the same characters, or in the same world, rather than get new creation that they would have to go through all the bother of trying to sell all over again. |
Re: Why the average publisher isn\'t much better th
Yeah, and if Tolkien lived back in 1930 or something, The Lord of the Rings would have been finished in 230 pages.
Side Note: scariest aliens ever in a novel = The Mote In God's Eye by Pournelle and Niven |
Re: Why the average publisher isn\'t much better th
Gormenghast was in several volumes too. The point isn't that authors suddenly jumped from tiny books to huge series, like it had never occurred to them before to continue their work along the same vein, it's that suddenly it was *expected* from them, to do so. Dozens of series suddenly came out, and grew longer and longer, because it was the fashionable and profitable trend.
Honestly, JimMorrison is spot on, calling it the "reign of the pointlessly long series", because a lot of these series have no business being as long as they are. If a body of work is very long, but of reasonable quality throughout, and each book adds to the body of work, then I'm happy as a clam about it. More goodness, what's not to like? But how many series can we look at and say, "every book here is sheer gold!"? There are some. The Gunslinger series comes to mind, as does George Alec Effinger's awesome Marid Audran trilogy (which was only a trilogy because the author died), and ofcourse Terry Pratchet's Diskworld, which can continue on into infinity, as far as I'm concerned. But for every author worthy of a major series, we seem to get 10 or 20 with diarhhea of the typewriter. |
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Re: OT-Black Company
May I suggest The Sundering by Jacqueline Carey? The first book is Banewreaker. It is fabulous and is essentially the Lord of the Rings, told from the other side. Sure, the story is different, but the heart of it is there.
Why do the bad guys do it? What drove them to it? The books look at the characters of the “evil” characters and makes “the good guys” play a minor role and a somewhat evil one at that. If the Knight in Shining Armor has a sword and kills people, is he really that good? I found this on George RR Martin’s website and must credit him for pointing out the LOR symmetry. He lists what he has been reading recently. Dan Simmons does the same on his site. Looking at what top authors are reading, with their comments, is often a much better guide at where to find quality reading than listening to random jokers like me in a forum. |
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Sturgeon's Law, though. -Max |
Re: Why the average publisher isn\'t much better th
Leif, the Mahabharata is a trilogy consisting of approximately 1.8 million words. I don't think they had personal computers and word-processors 2400 years ago.
Certainly, word-processors and pcs and even typewriters sped up the process, but this wasn't just a case of sudden invention increasing output. Those things didn't cure writers block, for one thing. |
Re: Why the average publisher isn\'t much better th
And Tolkien got his popularity in the 60's when the books were re-discovered by the hippies, not in the 30's, and it was in large part the popularity of his books that started the trilogy craze.
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Re: Why the average publisher isn\'t much better th
I think endings are one of the most important parts of any story. A good beginning can get you started, but what you'll end up remembering will probably be the ending. There are exceptions, though:
"Mrs. Whitaker found the Holy Grail; it was under a fur coat." So starts Chivalry, a short story by Neil Gaiman Also, the forewords of the Dragonlance novel Soulforge, and spesifically the quote about iron-making. It's a powerful start, even though the story isn't too special by itself. |
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Not really. Typing is typing. The difference is in what sells, and the bigger, thicker books carry-literally-more weight than short stories, and therefore more emphasis for the readers to empathise with the story/characters/plot, and want more of the same.
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Re: Why the average publisher isn\'t much better th
And as has been pointed out in reference with the Wheel of Time, a reduced sense of obligation. Once the decision is made to NOT end on a third book, you can keep stringing people along forever. Even if the author dies early (not to make light of that per se, or to blame him for dying) or sales eventually fall off because the writing has gotten so bad, and so irrelevant, you have still conned 10 million people into paying 20$, 30$, maybe $50 for this stuff. If combined sales of a series top $100 million for unsatisfying junk, then what is the incentive for the publisher to find some brilliantly written, but short and controversial (AND unorthodox) story, that won't even hit best seller lists, let alone break $1 million in sales? They do not want quality, they don't care if in 20 or 30 years a book is considered a classic, and a revolutionary writing - they're making decisions to make themselves wealthy NOW, and nothing else, it's just business.
I can't believe this is still an argument. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif (Also I can't believe I went to do something else, and this post sat here unsent for 5 or 6 hours. O.o) |
Re: Why the average publisher isn\'t much better th
Isn't that the way publishing has always been? The reason Dickens' novels are so interminably long is partly that he was paid by the word.
-Max |
Re: Why the average publisher isn\'t much better th
Oh and I loved the first Black Company book. Good voice and great use of battlefield magic! The part where the guy with the flying carpet is dropping these green strands down on the enemy, and the threads are cutting people up and leaving horrible, bright green wounds, that was honestly gruesome. I wish there had been more background on the original Taken, though.
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Re: Why the average publisher isn\'t much better th
Though the thread became probably too long for any sane person to read http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif , I have currently found the time to accomplish this! Thanks to all who mentioned authors I haven't read already.
Thanks also for reminding about Margareth Weis. Though she's not on par with Barbara Hambly or Caroline Cherryh, she writes well enough. And while she started from very humble beginnings of T$R book-hack, she had overgrown this. Her later books stink of melodrama, though, sometimes. But generally good-written and enjoyable. I personally like Star of the Guardians cycle most, though it's not fantasy and so slightly OT here... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Another case of gaming-company-books-done-well is, of course, production of Games Workshop. Here they seduced some already known British authors into writing some books using a world where their game takes place as a shared universe. I enjoy Jack Yeovil = Kim Newman particularly, but Brian Craig (don't remember actual name) is also good. This series is generally worth to read (maybe less so for those who don't play Warhammer, but still good nevertheless) and dark fantasy is what World of Warhammer is all about! Considering maps - it's probably good idea, though Martin's would hold no interest for me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Glen Cook didn't place official maps in any of his books afaik, but there are good-quality ones produced by fans. There is good map of Turtledove's World of Videssos also... As for publishers - well, I generally agree with HoneyBadger's idea, but must point out that I had to take part in preparing some few books for publishing and it's really exact & boring job. Few authors would make this work willingly - and especially make it well. Quote:
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Re: Why the average publisher isn\'t much better th
I like the Videssos books. They're currently free to read from the Baen free library.
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Re: Why the average publisher isn\'t much better th
Yes. This can also mean that map can be used freely for non-commercial purposes, eh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Turtledove and Barbara Hambly are also, by the way, the only professional medievists in the field. And it tells. Considering game use Hambly's maps are also good and could be useful.
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Re: Why the average publisher isn\'t much better th
Stop writing on this thread! I have no time and I must absolutely read it all ... and it is increasing ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif
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Re: Why the average publisher isn\'t much better th
a few points to start
1. I don't know any black company books (I don't think even the biggest stores here in Holland have them, but the more I encounter the name I'm thinking of ordering them) 2. I FULLY agree Martin writes great books and I think it is better than Tolkien in quite some ways. 3. dragon of .... etc.. is IMHO not a very good series and I don't think there is good character development at all. 4. I like Jordans books, even the late/last ones Then I want to bring some autor's into the light (I guess most of you 'read them already but if you haven't these are books you must read.. even if you don't think they are as great as I think they are I'm sure you'll find them at least good and worth the reading time Having said that I think it's strange that Steven Erikson hasn't been mentioned I think his Malazan books of the Fallen are one of the greatest series there are (for me this is the best series together with Martin) I also like Feists (Magician and his serpentwar saga) another series I like very much so far (only seen first book of this sereis (I think the rest isn't written yet): the name of the wind by Patrick Rothfuss An oldie (don't know exactly how it really fits in timeline with other book but one of his books was amongst the first I bougth) I like too is Tad Williams (Dragonthrone series (real name to long) and his war of the Flowers book Last but not least I'd like to mention Scott lynch's books about locke lamora (The lies of locke lamora and red seas under red skies) about a conman in a fantasy setting it's different and it's good also: Drizzt books (RA Salvatore) and discworld novels are always fun between more "serious" series, and not bad at all |
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I love the Drizzt books (RA Salvatore). My daughters have recently started reading my collection and appear to be hooked as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
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Re: Why the average publisher isn\'t much better th
Feist is very very good. i think the only reason he is not mentioned is he is so well known.
I am surprised KO does not have a hero named Pug or Calais. |
Re: Why the average publisher isn\'t much better th
Feist? as in Raymond E Feist? Unknown? On which planet? Surely not Earth. He might not have sold *quite* as many books as Jordan or Martin, but it would be a close race.
If you look at some of the slightly older incarnations of this particular thread...and I can't help but grin at mentioning it...such as the OT Malazan Book of the Fallen, you'll find we've had some quite lively discussion about Feist, Jordan, Martin, Erikson, Williams, etc. Will some kind administrator please sticky this thread already? It's head keeps getting chopped off and growing back with a new name, Hydra-style. I loved the Icewind Dale books growing up, and found them much more to my taste than the Dragonlance ones. I very strongly recommend David Drake's King of the Isles series to any R.A.Salvatore fans out there. |
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We're not stickying threads like this because the top of the forum would get unacceptably cluttered. The current stickies are enough. If it wewre down to the moderators, there'd be three less than now, but we have orders with sound reasoning that prevents it from happening.
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Re: Why the average publisher isn\'t much better th
I wasn't really serious, Edi. Although it would be nice to have something stable that reflected the attitudes of the forum towards the subject matter and spirit of the game, so that we didn't recycle the same information over and over to every eager new person. Not that it's not fun to talk about, but it's the same conversation every six months or so.
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the average publisher isn\'t much better th
Well, as I suspected:
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And Lynch is particularly bad at it also. The only con in the first book which was good thought out is the one played by the Grey King on the main protagonist - and it worked mainly because the said protagonist didn't act as conman (or any criminal) should in the situation (not mentioning the magical help antagonist had). Read O'Henry, for Cthulhu's sake! By the way, among Russian RPGers such fantasy is characterized by "dice rolling is heard" term. It's seen quite clearly that it was adventure module played out by not particularly good players under a novice DM. Feist is similar BTW, but he at least got his homework as DM done - it's mainly with writing all this down that he has a problem. Also, I don't see how anyone can call Lynch "different" after reading Feist. They are practically twins except Feist is older and was on the market much earlier... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif Quote:
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Among T$R authors I would also consider Knaak already mentioned here and - just possibly - Gary Gygax himself. He writes not especially good, I must say beforehand, but he's a font of most AD&D initial ideas (as in: beholders, dark elves, and dungeon crawling adventures in general). The girl who'd written Curse of Asure Bonds isn't bad, but her name slips me and it's not very good by itself. Just not bland and not foolish, which is more than can be said about most "dice rolling" fantasy. It's also probably out of print by now. |
Re: the average publisher isn\'t much better th
Well, the unfortunate truth is, Wrana, that I've read and enjoyed a lot of fiction that just wasn't classic. Stuff that never was, never will be, "the highest quality fantasy", but I still managed to get entertainment and thought out of it. I can give you a very accurate list of the finest fantasy writers in the past 100 years, but I'm sad to say that not every one of them, at every given instance, is enormously readable. They're profound, deep, compelling, etc. but sometimes, yes, one just wants to escape, and not think all that terribly hard, while being taken on a tour of a world unlike our own.
At given points in time, I've enjoyed Martin, I've enjoyed Feist, I've even enjoyed Jordan. They aren't they best thing that ever came down the pike, but on a given day they occupied my brain in ways beneficial. And even if people are reading crappy fantasy, they're still reading, and it's still fantasy, and that's a good thing in my book. And King of the Isles is 100% free from the Baen free library, so you're welcome to check it out and see for yourself. |
Re: the average publisher isn\'t much better th
After the first book of Serpentwar, Feist's writing started to get seriously stale. I loved the original Riftwar saga and the Empire trilogy he cowrote with Janny Wurts (who is one of my favorite authors, though she can be pretty wordy sometimes).
J.V. Jones also writes good fantasy, but the Book of Words trilogy can take some getting used. Barbed Coil is a first rate standalone book, though. I also happen to like Michael Scott Rohan's Winter of the World trilogy. It's a rather original take on several elements of Finnish and Celtic mythology. |
Re: the average publisher isn\'t much better th
heh. My sense of humor is not apparent at times. I was kidding about a hero named Pug or Calais.
But I do take issue with your condemnation of Feist. Some of his work is not good(talonhawk stuff), but Jimmy the Hand was one of my favorite characters. Edit-Edi, my comment was directed at Wranna's dislike of Feist, not your comment immediately above mine. sorry for the confusion. |
Re: the average publisher isn\'t much better th
Uh, hello? Jimmy the Hand is a major character in the original series and also appears in Serpentwar. He's my favorite too, but the books after Serpentwar are nowhere near as good as the older works.
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Re: the average publisher isn\'t much better th
I like early Feist a lot.
Locke Lamora is about a group of gentlemen-thief-actor-geniuses in a low-fantasy world. It's more about the stuff they can pull off than about the magic, but it's so over-the-top it can only be fantasy. The Feist I like doesn't really have anything in common with Scott Lynches writing. EDIT: It seems I've missed Jimmy the Hand, though. Name of the Wind is new. It's captivating. It has promise, and great build-up, but I'm not sure how well Rothfuss can deliver once the "past" has been told and it's time to actually move forward in the story. Quote:
It could be written worse, as well. Unfortunately, someone decided to prove it true and wrote LotR, worse. Warning: bad fantasy ahead! McKiernan's Silver Call starts with "warrows" that keep "sir Tuckerby Underbank's Unfinished Diary and His Accounting of the Winter War" safe, and then one of them (Peregrin "Perry" Fairhill) is hired to retrace his ancestor's steps when group of dwarves wants to reclaim mines of "Kraggen-Cor". Yes, there's a priceless chain mail of "starsilver, silveron, stronger than steel, lighter than down, soft as doeskin." The world is called "Mithgar". The big bad that was killed with the "red arrow" was called "Modru" |
Re: the average publisher isn\'t much better th
Feist's "Faerie Tale" I also found enjoyable. It's set in the real world, not Midkemia.
The point where Feist became hopelessly unreadable to me was 'Merchant Prince'. I like to call it "fantasy accounting", and as far as I can tell, is basically some kind of wacko Midkemian corporate thriller, from the little bit I could stand to choke down. |
Re: the average publisher isn\'t much better th
I liked the whole Serpentwar series (Shards of a Broken Crown was a pretty good climax to a tale you thought had already climaxed in Rage of a Demon King). There are things I have liked about the Talon books--starting fresh with new characters is always nice--but I couldn't even finish Flight of the Nighthawks.
-Max |
Re: OT-Black Company
Wrana: hahahaha
seriously in most your post I only see things you don't like except the black company and hobb and tolkien it seems.. I don't see why hobb is so much better than most writers you don't like.. I don't even see why it his books are "for those who like fantasy dark". I can see why you'd like Tolkien better than some writers that where mentioned (Martin) but I just disagree.. on so many points Martin is better. and if you dont'read the books I recommended it's your loss not mine.. maybe others will have some use for them though. |
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Re: the average publisher isn\'t much better th
Time to return to this dope... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
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And I also have read trash fantasy aplenty, but the 3 you mentioned are just too crappy for my palate. Maybe I'm spoiled for choice by having relatively much Russian trash fantasy at hand - many of which are of generally better quality, but unfortunately weren't (and won't be I think) translated into English. Also, there is always Robert Ervin Howard - and not only his fantasy, which I think isn't the best among his works... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Quote:
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Another example is Terry Brooks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif He's not quite so obnoxious at it as he uses less copy-paste... but it remains copy-paste nonetheless, though he didn't repeat it all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif Quote:
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I'm actually agreeing with you, Wrana, in case you missed that part.
I'm just explaining that first of all, getting people interested in reading is probably a good thing. And bad sci fi (or future fantasy) isn't necessarily any better, or any more realistic or accurate, than bad fantasy. Once again from the top: I'm NOT a fan of Robert Jordan, George Martin, Raymond Feist, Terry Brooks, Terry Goodkind, or David Eddings. I am familiar with their works, however, because I read them probably 10 years ago or more, and they do have their good qualities, generally concerning their earlier works, and in their attempt to recreate/reinvigorate the fantasy genre, by infusing it with as much creativity as they're capable of. I no longer bother reading them, because their works have become bloated, unimaginative, uninspired, and stale, and in some cases graphically violent and pornographic, in such a ham-handed way, vulgar way, that it's actually a turn-off. I simply find that I have better things to read. I'm also not a real big fan of Tolkien or Piers Anthony, but I'll still re-read The Hobbit every few years, and once in a great while I'll read one of Anthony's more bizarre non-Xanth novels, if only because of how truly kooky they can get. As far as Russian novelists go, I realize that Russia has a long and impressive tradition, and we are starting to see more translations over here in the 'States. I sadly have almost 0 background in the Russian language, although my mother did take Russian language courses when she was in highschool. If you could recommend some works that have been translated, or better yet, translated, and made freely available on the internet (it's great advertizement, especially for relatively unfamiliar authors, and testing shows that it increases, rather than reducing, sales of hard copies), then I'd happily spend time seeking them out. Until then, it does little to *say* that the Russians have a better space-program, er novel, until it can be quantified with proof http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif |
Re: the average publisher isn\'t much better th
Piers Anthony? Say it ain't so! The only thing I ever read, that filled my gut with a sense of ill-ease deeper than Gulliver's Travels could inflict me with, was a brief passage from some atrocious Xanth novel that a friend considered hilarious. Okay, deep breaths..... He just thinks he's some sort of high octane version of Dr Seuss, it drives me mad.
Okay, sorry. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif I guess reading these latest posts made me want so badly to be the reviewer that kicks a writer's teeth in, I feel better now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I think the thing with Russian vs English fiction is a deeper and more subtle issue, really. I've been very entertained by much of the Russian fiction I've been exposed to - recently watched Daywatch/Nightwatch, and I've gotten a few Russian made CRPGs that are fun - but I can't say that I very highly rate the writing. And I think really, translation just does terrible things for any profound writing - because that precisely special combination of words that strikes something in you, well the other language may not even have them at all, or the translator may substitute a word that has additional connotations that weren't intended, or if it is your second language, some nuances simply may be missed. I think this issue is even greater when it involves the English language, as we have borrowed so many words from so many other languages, that for example if you enter "wise" into thesaurus.reference.com, you get a truncated list of 50 synonyms. Many translators may not know what all of the subtle differences are, and in creative writing, sometimes one word is substituted for another not on merit of connotation, but simply because of the shape and sound of the word. You lose poetic nuances like that the moment it is translated. Fiction is a fickle mistress. At the point that someone says "I don't get it", the artistic expression is lost, and it has spelled doom for the story. People will generally tend to hold in higher regard the earlier things that they read and digested, because even if they are a bit trite or underdone, they'll still express many new concepts, and broaden one's horizons. So maybe if Piers Anthony was the first fiction I read, I'd like him - and maybe recommend him to people on some basis - but luckily, that is not the case. <3 |
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Don't judge Piers Anthony's writing by the never-ending Xanth series. Some of his books (Macroscope) and the first few (2-3) Xanth books are sort of mildly good. The never-ending Xanth stories are a money machine which he apparently thinks he'd be a fool not to milk--think of them as his day job.
-Max |
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Yeah, you'll notice that I took the time to clarify that I take my Piers Anthony strictly non-Xanth. As long as you avoid them, and any other series he's written, past say the third or fourth book, you'll be ok. Some of his series I've read farther than that, but I don't take responsibility for the quality. He may not be consistently great, and he's certainly not everybody's cup of tea, but what can I say? he writes well to teenaged males, and I used to be a very troubled teenager (I've since matured into a very troubled adult). Him and Tom Deitz are the first two authors that I'd point any hormonal adolescent towards, were I forced kicking and screaming into near proximity with them. I'd add Harry Harrison, but the sad fact is that a lot of his best early work hasn't aged all that well.
One thing that Piers Anthony does, that I really approve of, is that he always (or almost always) includes an Author's Note at the end of his books, taking the time to actually explain something of what was going on in his head or whatever, when he was writing the book. I for one appreciate having a little insight into my authors and their writing process, and it sets him apart from others mentioned, as much as any factor of his writing quality. |
to finish it?
And the last one, probably - thought to do it on Sunday, but wasn't up to it, sorry to all...
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Considering earlier and later reading I think we agree of - though I think that to recommend some reading should be done with caution as trash can either make the person in question drop reading completely or make him/her trash reader only - a pity in both cases. Quote:
Generally, if you find one of the following names: V.Sverzhin, M. & S. Dyachenko, M. Uspensky, G.L. Oldi (or Gromov and Ladyzhensky), S. Vartanov, E. Ratkevitch, O.Gromuko - they are generally worth reading. There are others, too... And when I find whether any of them were translated into English, I'll notify you. Considering translations - well, I generally agree with what JimMorrison said. But this fortunately doesn't stop people from making translations of what they want their countrymates to read. Sometimes it's quite successful - I've read a really good translation of Jasper Fforde (!) in Russian not very long ago. It takes time and effort, of course - but is hardly impossible. Considering Pierce Anthony - his afterwords to Avatars series I consider to be actually the best things I've read from him. They were quite interesting material and I'm thankful for them. And generally I see him as better SF than fantasy writer. Though, of course, series become stale quite soon in any case. There is one more thing I would like to mention considering quite common drop of quality which was discussed here - the so-called "gritty realism". This means naturalistic descriptions and general "weary-of-the-world cynicism" approach - quite laughable from people who generally live very sheltered lives in wealthy civilized countries. Of course, this isn't the cause of bad writing, but merely one of its symptoms. I don't mean that naturalism is bad in and of itself, but it's often used to mascuerade total lack of knowledge on the subject of writing... |
Re: to finish it?
still... Jordan was doing a great job http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif, so is martin btw... and Erikson.
Erikson has a nice gritty realism series. PS locke lamora > grey mouser and I said con-man not criminal |
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So, you are relating the writed of Nightwatch to..... Harry Potter? Ouch man, just ouch. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif
There were some interesting things portrayed in those films. Not immensely thought provoking for someone who likes to spend much time deep in thought, but still not mindless, either. Though I do have to say, I mostly just found it very weird. But again, most of that comes from translation. I can only imagine that typically the people hired to subtitle movies, are a level of skill lower than those people who translate entire novels, who are generally a level of skill lower than they need to be in order to accurately portray the beauty of the original writing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif It's a tricky equation, where generally the way a book is written, is as important as what it is about. One is incomplete without the other, and in the process of translation, it's as if taking an oil painting, and redoing it as a water color. The brushstrokes are different, the colors are different, and the overall feel is going to simply be different, even if what it portays is still the same. Ultimately, I think this is what is so great about foreign movies, games, music, etc. The only part that needs good translating is the dialogue, as long as the content is portrayed accurately in the more visual and/or interactive form, then it sidesteps the issues of language. |
Re: to finish it?
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If considering oneself a "man of books" means limiting one's reading to works of literary art (however you might define art) and belittling the work of others, then I will never be more than the common, dead brained, pitiful fool that you have described. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Sorry if that comes across sounding flamey as that is not my intention. It has just always struck me as incredibly wrong when someone puts down a different style as being trashy and those who appreciate that style as pitiful or otherwise deserving only sympathetic dismissal as poor ignorant fools. All of that said, I wanted to point out that I really appreciate all of the great suggestions for reading in this thread from Wrana and others. Many of the books that I have enjoyed through the years were suggested by friends and family. |
Re: to finish it?
To Aezeal: of course, you can continue to repeat youself. It's pretty effective way of discussion, actually, if cheap. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif But anyway that doesn't make truth of nonsense. And I ask you another time: what you can state as the "greatness" in question? As for con-man - that particular one is certainly not criminal. He's a fool, just as I said. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif
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About both problems and great gain of translation I can only agree. Quote:
And I DO NOT consider myself a "man of books" - actually a good way to get deadbrained in my book. For one thing, I do not qualify by old standarts. And another thing is I just don't think that reading itself makes a man better which was the point. As for "different style" - you either missed the point OR try to use the common line of "different is beautiful, small is beautyful, etc., etc." And I see it's already advertised enough, thanks. So I reiterate. The point was not about "different style", but about lack thereof. And I do NOT define the art. I just prefer to not take or PASS trash for quality. And may I hope that other party do not do this, either. Especially the second part. Of course, modern "critics" tradition just loves to do it. And with enough word equilibristics can even be quite successful in the task. Do you want to make their work for free? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Or will you agree to the obvious fact that there are books (for example) which are worth reading and those which are not? |
Re: to finish it?
No your way of discussion isn't cheap lol... ask balb about that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
PS no dissing harry potter.. I'd not call the books good in many ways but they where fun to read (ways in which it was good: mostly character development which was much better than in most fantasy books) |
Re: to finish it?
It isn't hard to be better than most fantasy books, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
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Re: to finish it?
well I mostly see only those who get published in the netherlands, I read them english though.. but still I guess that is quite a selection already (for example.. never seen the books this thread started about http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif)
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Re: to finish it?
Quote:
At least TSR didn't have to retcon whole accessories as insane ravings, like White Wolf had to do with "Dirty secrets of black hand" and some other 2ed stuff, essentially "replacing" it with another accessory and erasing most traces of its lore in 3ed. I only remember them to officially rule non-canon the "Lord of the Necropolis" Ravenloft novel, dissing its revelations on Dark Powers as Azalin's hallucinations. They also removed the references to Soth from Ravenloft by the end of 2ed, and various Forgotten Realms references in 3ed, when Ravenloft was licensed to Swords&Sorcery, but that was for legal reasons, and they just changed names to generic crap like "Dark Knight" or "Morninglord". ...Not to mention that finding bugs and contradictions in such works is an entertainment in itself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Quote:
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