Re: Our beloved Pretenders!
 

That was in response to a comment that Xietor's new pretender for Man might be totally unbalanced in base game.

-Max

Re: Our beloved Pretenders!
 

Umm, no. The Master of the Hunt would certainly not unbalance the base game. He is not a Gorgon after all. And we are not talking about this pretender for MA Ermor or Pythium either.

Re: Our beloved Pretenders!
 

Aoe attacks use strength unless stated otherwise.

They never use attack.

Re: Our beloved Pretenders!
 

Ouh sorry. My bad.

Re: Our beloved Pretenders!
 

Hmm... anyone knows what "fimbultyr" is? That is one of the titles available for pretender. And google gives me only some metal band...

Re: Our beloved Pretenders!
 

From articles about Fimbulwinter (Illwinter, three winters without summer in-between that mark the beginning of Ragnarök) and Týr (the one-handed god of single combat).

Re: Our beloved Pretenders!
 

To Tifone:
Thank you for your comment. I was also of mixed opinion considering crown. Maybe modified fur would be better - though this will require higher drawing skills... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif By the way, it's not black bear, it's brown one - of the same species as American grizzly (but I'm not planning on including all 7 species of modern bears! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ). And yes, Great Bulls were among what have given me this idea.

Re: Our beloved Pretenders!
 

Oh, ok, dunno what gave me the idea of your bear being a black one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif consider posting the gif to give us an idea when you feel comfortable doing so ^_^

Re: Our beloved Pretenders!
 

I think I've had a nice idea for a pretender to mod into the game. From the 1973 cult movie, the Wicker Man.
It is an enormous wooden idol which resembles a human form. It is a simbol of fertility, and the pagan country community of the island of the movie imprisons inside the idol's body human innocent victims to be sacrificed, as they are burned alive with the idol itself, to provide the community a good harvest for the year. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif
It seems it would fit well in the mood of many pagan nations as EA Marverni and others.

It should be size 7, inanimate, immobile and needing not eat and blind, immune to shock, poison and fire (as the one I want in the game is ever-burning) but 50% more susceptible to cold (as it weakens its flames), have an heat aura and a fireshield 10, have standard 10, spring power (value?), a supply bonus and fortune teller 10%, but increases the unrest for 5 points per month in its province (all for thematic reasons), no slots, around 120 hp, 0 defence but high on protection and MR, and no attacks. N2F1B1 mage with difficult access to other paths (50 points).

The main problems are that 1) I've never created a mod and 2) I'm not that exceptionally good in making gifs, and this one is difficult http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

Suggestions? Ideas? Opinions? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Re: Our beloved Pretenders!
 

You have to be very careful with the paths though. While I think there should be more pretender chassis that start with paths at 3, you must bear in mind that starting at 3 drastically reduces the cost to get a major bless, and starting at 4 would make it nearly a foregone conclusion that you would go to 9 if you used that pretender, because of cost efficiency. Starting with 2 paths at 3+4, would make a very cheap dual bless available.

Look at it this way, should cost 288 points to go from 1 to 9, so the Olm as it stands costs you 626 points total, to get W9/E9 bless. Going from 3-9 only costs 152 points, or just over half, and 4-9 should only be 120 - for a total cost of 344 for a good dual bless. I'd say with W3/E4 you'd want to at least push him to 150 base cost, though dropping the E to 4 as well would also be a good idea.

Of course, pushing the paths high and increasing base cost to compensate sort of pigeon-holes him somewhat to blesses, in some people's eyes - even if the base cost of 150 would give you strong buffing paths anyway, making him a little more capable as a potential SC.

Looking at Agartha's mages, I'd be willing to say the Olm would have some really interesting options if he were E3 + either F2/W2, or maybe just F1/W1/D1. This gives him some built in versatility as to which paths you exploit, and gives him the option to be a "semi-rainbow", though at the expense of giving you nothing that Agartha doesn't already have.


I think it can be easy to get a bit carried away. Remember that thematic and flavorful is the primary goal, yes, but without paying some attention to the actual balance, you'll only be making SP content, because no one will allow the mod in MP (though if a mod had really strong national pretenders for everyone, you could start the game yourself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif), and if it's not vaguely in line with (though of course slightly more versatile or efficient) what is already available, then it'll never get imported to the base game.

Call me naive but I can't help but think that if enough good input comes from the pretender chassis and late game summons threads, that some of it will be patched in for us. <3

Re: Our beloved Pretenders!
 

Surely Jim you are right. My was just a, possibly newbish, idea on how the ageless olm would be more competitive. Many people really like it for its flavour, but it surely is a difficult pretender to chose for agartha as it has only the most developed national paths and it is not an ultimate SC. But it wouldn't be really thematic to give it other magic paths than the ones it has (he is a salamander which comes from a subterranean cave - only earth and water come to mind for thigs he has always seen http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )so no chance to increase national magic diversity, it has not many slots and it would be unthematic also to give him inbuilt one of the traits which are useful for SCs (I don't think it can be really fearful or awe inspiring, and surely he can't petrify or intangle)... So only making it a better mage in what it naturally has came to my mind. This possibly applies to other national pretenders which are good in flavour but the people maybe don't choose because they are -too- thematic.
But surely thanks for your points on balance. Maybe I was just too quick in giving my idea without thinking at the actual cost of a double bless.

Re: Our beloved Pretenders!
 

Hey you were on the right track. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif It's just hard to plan the starting paths, because of how dramatically it reduces the cost of the bless. For example, one reason the Cyclops is so well liked, is because it is a fine SC, and also happens to start at 3E giving it a very economical cost for a major Earth bless.

The Agarthan mages tend to get some access to Fire as well, and with the prevalence of lava in the deeps, it sort of makes sense the Olm is familiar with this element as well. I really think that giving him 3E and at least 1 other starting path would make him start to look more attractive, if nothing else than as a bless chassis and high end caster.

If he were reimagined with 4 arms, I think that would be the most interesting way to make him SC capable, he does have a lot of little stubby limbs after all, so it's not too much of a stretch. There are other abilities that could be explored as well, perhaps regeneration (worms regrow!), or even an autocast of Darkness in combat (that might be a bit too powerful, but would be so cool).

Re: Our beloved Pretenders!
 

Surely it would be cool, but I think early game Agartha would be everybody's nightmare, we could just forget blessed Jarls XD

Re: Our beloved Pretenders!
 

It's possible to decouple pretender magic from blesses to some extent. For instance, you could make the Olm have E1W1 with a magicboost of +3 to E and +2 to water. In practice he'd be an E4W3 mage, but for bless purposes he's only E1W1. I haven't ever tried this but IIRC it's how dragons work (only in their case the dragon form has a -2 "bonus").

-Max

Re: Our beloved Pretenders!
 

Hmmmm, strange. I have never actually played a game with a dragon pretender, but I've tested builds with them in the Pretender Creator, and everything seems normal. Where is this -2 calculated? I understand that they are weaker magically in their dragon form, but you buy paths for their "human" form, and it seems that's what determines their bless. I could be wrong, but that's what I always thought I was seeing.

Re: Our beloved Pretenders!
 

I think that's Max's point. You'd buy your paths (and therefore your blesses) as if the pretender started with E1W1. However, during game play, the pretender's actual magic skills would be two or three points higher than that. You'd get powerful magic skills on the pretender without a cheap level-nine bless....

Re: Our beloved Pretenders!
 

Well I think that would cause other problems though. If you got a bonus +3W for casting, and you did go for the W9 blessing for example, then for those points you get a 12W caster, before boosters. Some spells scale incredibly well with magic level, and also you get very nice bonuses to global casting.

But I guess just to clarify, you're suggesting some sort of second shape for them? The same as the first shape, but more magically inclined? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Our beloved Pretenders!
 

No, you'd give the magicboost to their only shape. The dragon is weird in that is has BOTH a secondshape and negative magicboost in that secondshape.

-Max