Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Agree 100% with Aezeal, well said.

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Well I'm known for my tactfull posts through out the net http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

People get so passionate about this issue. I bet if a group of people were discussing this at Starbucks over a cup of overpriced coffee, someone would get stabbed.

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

*stabs Foodstamp*

Jazzepi

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

*stabs Foodstamp, who is now at -2 defense*

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

*casts Mists of Deception + Wrathful Skies on the discussion group, then retreats* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

The spinning plastic butterknife strikes The Foodstamp in the head!
It is mangled!
The Foodstamp's left ear has been slashed off!
The Foodstamp's throat has been slashed out!
The Foodstamp's neck has been badly cut!
The Foodstamp's brain has been mangled!
The Foodstamp is propelled away by the force of the blow!
The Foodstamp loses hold of the Iron shield.
The Foodstamp loses hold of the Iron mace.
The Foodstamp gives in to pain.
The Foodstamp falls over.

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Is that Dwarf Fortress?

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Quick, someone throw Foodstamp's corpse in the moat. He's spreading miasma everywhere http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Jazzepi

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Fine, I will not press the issue if the general consensus is that continued conflict is detrimental in some way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

I just felt that my own concerns were in no way resolved by this. I really wish JK and KO would just change MoD in a way similar to Twan's mod spell.

I've just been extremely uncomfortable with these repeated claims of how "easy" it is to stop the mage from even having the chance to cast twice and retreat.

Just as I am uncomfortable about this portrayal of flying units as "just useful chaff", when most nations have only rather expensive options to get any fliers that are worthwhile in the late game, and can't just go around securing more every couple of small battles the army has.

But, I am sure here is where I get told that my perspective on that is very n00bish and so I can't be expected to have a valid viewpoint to express. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

/me stabs Jim

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

< Eats Aezeal's nose off. >

O.O

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Someone said it was easy to counter MOD+Retreat? Do tell.

I am pretty sure people have said it is possible.

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

wish I could figure out Dwarf Fortress
I really really really want to like it ...

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Here is a link to the wiki, it has tutorials and guides on the very first page.

http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/Main_Page

BTW, the game was patched a few days ago, so it is uber hotsauce in adventure mode now too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

In the other thread there have to be at least 3 seperate places where K directly stated "the easiest way to counter MoD+retreat is just to kill the caster".

Phrasing varied, of course, but I am only referring to places where the statement was that it was not hard to do if you are a "skilled" player. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif

But it doesn't matter, as I've been asked to just let the whole thing die, and I agree that since we have an official stance on the subject, and agreement is nearly unanimous that exploiting a bug is unacceptable, then I don't care about the rest, people make wild claims every day.

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Jim,
I suck at things.. but if you get a moment, could you test an army with a bunch of phantasm poppers?

these would be something like shambler units, with chi shoes, and void eyes... perhps 5-6 in an army. Void Eyes are supposed to destroy phantasms in range, and blinking around the battlefied.perhaps will get you enough in range.

By the way - I tried a couple of games where wrathful skies cast on the same side as MoD - killed all the phantasms themselves...

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Chi shoes? The ones that give Kick? The Sandals of the Crane blink but they're an Artifact. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif I'd assume you just meant Winged Shoes, I wonder how effective that would be.

I wonder if a high movement cavalry unit with Stymphalian Wings would do better, getting more hops/turn so you need less of them?

I don't know though, it seems like a bit of a stretch. I mean, talking about not only a sizable investment of gems into a totally nonstandard tactic that you'd never use for anything but warding off MoD, but these guys actually have no other use at all.

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

well, you could you make them mages, and just cast blink.

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Just looks at progress page.

Enchantment now finish when caster leaves battlefield.

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Aw, sadness, I liked that trick. Well, outside of MoD...

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Well thank goodness for that.

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

It's just a minor step towards making the game more conventional. There is still plenty of quirks to make the game stand apart from other strategy games... for now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Naah, Foodstamp. I think making all the spells counterable by a counter-spell, or perfectly balancing all the nations, or giving each path a strong late game summon to balance tarts (instead of giving to some paths good summons, other paths good battlefield spells, another ones good globals... as IMHO is now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif - though improvable maybe) would make the game more "conventional".
This is just fixing an issue that was maybe being exploited by some (a few surely, this game has a great, fair community), and being annoying to the majority http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Absolutely OT http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif - do you people think mentioning KO three times in a thread summons him, like the Burtonian Betelgeuse/Beetlejuice?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

It might. It works with me.
One of my morning routines is a search for gandolph, gandolf, and Gandalf in the last few days on all the forums with it showing the text of the posts.

Sometimes when Im jumping into threads I wasnt part of I will mention "HARK, I have been summoned by the use of my name!"

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Gandalf Gandolph Gandolf Gandhi Gran-Marnier Ganesh Gangaroo Gangrene Parker Parkour Parkinson Parking-kong Paratrooper Partial Partnership Parttimelovers

**I'm in your forum - distressing your morning perceptions** http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Yes, it is a strategy gaming convention to remove egregious bugs that not only completely violate rules intended by the developers but also cheapen the spirit of the game, and fracture the community.

How dare they be so darned conventional?

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Yeah, this issue has really wrecked the community. I mean something like 3 whole people used the spell in MP games. Most (Really "most" is not even a strong enough word to describe it) of the pissing and moaning came from people who had never even faced the spell in MP.

A bunch of people listened to these people and the way they said the spell worked, they tried the spell in SP and omg the AI could not cope with it. Must be an exploit.

As far as this making the game more conventional, in a way it does. As a small aside, I felt like the "Voice of Tiamat" thing runs along this same ilk.

Some says "OMG voice of Tiamat can be used to make a check against a dome spell".

Rather than say "Cool, this is a neat little trick water casters can do." people said "OMG HAX exploits, the spell should logically work like this, not like that. If this were HOMM34304 the spell would not do that."

So the spell is changed. 6 months later the people who complain about these things leave to go play Spore, Civilization, or something else because they are tired of having to point out things that need to be fixed in this bizarre game. And then the players who love the quirkiness of the game are still here dealing with a vanilla game that has been drastically altered by a group of people who are never satisfied until they think everything is perfectly balanced, generic and expected.

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Given that it wasn't in the rulebook as a condition for ending a BE I don't think it was all that bad.

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

I for one am happy that the BF enchantment issue and the two movement bugs have been addressed. Most of the quirky things are still there.

I have not seen attempts to get things into perfect balance, but to make the game behave according to the rules it is supposed to behave. If it's violating its own ruleset, it is not a good thing. The three aforementioned bugs were the worst offenders. We shall see where it goes now.

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Addressed? My impression is that ritual of returning/retreat + BE was still working just fine.

Jazzepi

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

There you go, fixed your post.

I am very tempted to follow your lead and simply be insulting and self aggrandizing. But I see no need to debase myself to make you look like a fool, when you are doing such a great job yourself. Keep up the good work.

I think if you even paid the smallest bit of actual attention to the people you are surrounded by, you would not see me as some sort of ignoramus, or a "flavor of the month" kind of guy. Since you seem to want to portray me as such, it highlights how insulated you are from other people and their enjoyment, as opposed to yourself, and your own enjoyment.

It's okay if you want to live in your own little world, where the argument that "all programs behave as they were told, so regardless of intent, a completed project is finished and technically works as designed, which is always more important than working as intended". But it would seem that most of the people not only trust JK and KO to design the game in a logical and well considered fashion - and to agree with THEM, when THEY say that something is absolutely not working as intended, and to not only not abuse that bug, but to try to refrain from ridiculing and insulting those who feel that abusing an acknowledged bug is wrong, even when those who have a predilection for abusing bugs feel the need to ridicule and insult those who agree with the men who have actually designed this "quirky" and addictive game.

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Until the next patch.
http://ulm.illwinter.com/dom3/dom3progress.html

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Nice.

I'm glad they've fixed it and made a definite rule on how these things work. BE spells will still be plenty powerful, you'll just have to put more thought into how you'll protect the mage.

Come to think of it, being able to control when a BE ends could lead to new tactics.

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Huzzah!

I hope "retreat" also covers ritual of returning, and the armor of virtue.

Jazzepi

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

You pretty much did what you said you were not going to do in the very first line of your response. On top of that, you have made many more assumptions in this one post about my character and playstyle than I have about anyone.

It's a pity you think I am a cheater, self absorbed, and whatever other insult you said you were not going to stoop to. I am not going to try to qualify myself to you, someone I will never meet, and someone after that last post I could care less about on any level.

Re: \"MoD+Retreat\" defeated w/o killing caster
 

Do not continue with personal attacks. Anyone...