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-   -   Mod: Mytheology Pretenders 3 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=40168)

Luckmann March 18th, 2010 12:11 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavis_L (Post 736067)
The first post's download link is no longer valid, BTW, so unless someone decides to host it elsewhere (as Psientist hasn't been around the boards for a while, it seems; last activity date of 7-11-09 according to his profile) it's probably a dead mod. :(
Yeah, I just noticed. I only recently got back into Dominions 3 and wanted to try this mod. Unfortunately, the link is dead. Anyone that can re-up the latest version?

Surely someone must have it! :(

rdonj March 18th, 2010 01:39 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
1 Attachment(s)
I have a version that claims to be 3.06. I don't recall for sure if it's the proper version or not, but I downloaded it recently. Also, I made a few changes to it as the monkey king pretender was broken for me for kailasa. I didn't play around with it enough to get it fixed though. Anyway, here is my version of the mod.

Luckmann March 18th, 2010 02:04 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
3.06, you say? Amazing, seeing how the last update to the main post was supposedly 3.05.

Thanks, though. Going to take it out for a spin. :)

Edit: Suddenly, there's an edit-button for me. No idea how that got there. Anyway, a-ma-zing! A mod that for the most part actually doesn't look out-of-place (except for Aku). I like.

rdonj March 18th, 2010 02:38 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Yeah, that is pretty amazing. Maybe he just misnumbered it somewhere along the way, or forgot the update the post after making some minor update....

There's always an edit button when you post, but it only stays for 30 minutes.

Luckmann March 18th, 2010 04:06 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdonj (Post 736110)
Yeah, that is pretty amazing. Maybe he just misnumbered it somewhere along the way, or forgot the update the post after making some minor update....

There's always an edit button when you post, but it only stays for 30 minutes.
Well that certainly explains things. I'm just slow. Hrmph.

Anyway, I have a question. Somewhat unrelated, but I'm doing it in the context of this mod, so.. I want to change the Great Eyes around a bit. I'm not a fan of the whole shapeshanging deal the Earth/Water and Fire/Air eyes have going on. Removing the shapechangings shouldn't be too difficult, and changing the spellboosts since they're no longer necessary.

But no matter what, I can't seem to get the Water or Air eye(s) to show up as pretenders. Obviously this is what is originally intended, since those are meant to be shapes of the Fire and Earth eyes respectively. I am missing something really obvious here and the modding manual doesn't want to help me either.

Anyone feel like grabbing a laser pointer and showing me what I'm doing wrong? :help:

Luckmann March 18th, 2010 08:55 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
1 Attachment(s)
Alright, I solved it.
Then I noticed that all the "eyes" appeared a bit "flat" on the top, instead of entirely round.

Then I noticed that none of them had a secondary "animation". This isn't really relevant, since they can't attack - but they can still cast spells, dammit!

So I threw a wrench in it. Then another one. Then I decided to merge it with some of my own mods. Suddenly, I've been stuck for hours doing a whole slew of minor stuff.

Since Psientist seems to have gone AWOL, I felt that there's no harm in sharing.

Read the top of the mytheology4.dm for a full disclaimer on my part.

Changes: Renamed, changed descriptions of and diversified all Great Eyes. Only The Earthen Eye (Earth) is now a natural shapeshifter (into The Aether Eye (Air). Added secondary images for all Great Eyes and made them "rounder". Added my own Ecclesiarch, Spider King, God-King and Sunwell pretenders. Changed the descriptions of Grim Reaper & Wraith King pretenders. Changed all instances of Cuthulu to Cthulhu, including the name of the pretender. Numerous small changes to most of Machaka.

Just thought I'd share. Smack me on the fingers in case there's any complaints.

Ragnarok-X April 4th, 2010 02:00 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
You know, a preview image somewhere in this thread would be nice indeed.

kennydicke April 4th, 2010 02:41 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
I haven't used Mytheology beyond 3.05, but my bro claims that there are several monster IDs in conflict between version 3.07 of Mytheology and the Endgame Diversity mod. However, he seems reluctant to post his findings. So, I'll do it for him:

Mechanical Giant - Cytherean Priestess
Cyclops - Yggdrasil
Zmey - Gold Dragon
Snow Giant - Kong
Solar Fragment - The astral Eye

GoblinKing2112 April 5th, 2010 02:35 AM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
As my brother pointed out, there are some issues with the Mytheology III mod and the Endgame Diversity mod. As to his comment about my reluctance, I actually was checking the other summons from EDMOD to see if there were conflicts. Some of the affected summons had magic levels that might not be intended, such as the Kong from the Gather Tears spell having Water 3 when the one from Craft Snow Giant had no magic whatsoever.

MODs active when testing
CBM 1.6 v1.06
CrossPathCombatSpells v0.80
Deep Dagon v3.0
Endgame Diversity Mod v0.09
FW thugs n summons 1.00 v1.00
MA Nation: Goguryeo (Playtesting for my big bro Kenny Dicke) v0.01
Greater Gods 0.40
Worthy Heroes 1.8 v1.08
Streamers & Standards, Llama’s version v3.04
Mytheology III v3.07
Nova Deus II v1.22
Magic Site Mod v1.0
Throne of Heroes v1.01

Noticed Conflicts
Some cavalry have Shishi Claws instead of a Hoof attack; Preexisting Issue w/ EDMOD
Mechanical Giant summons a Cytherean Priestess
Awaken Cyclops summons a Yggdrasil (Pretender Chassis?)
Awaken Zmey summons a Gold Dragon (Pretender Chassis?)
Craft Snow Giant summons a Kong (Pretender Chassis)
Solar Fragment summons The Astral Eye (Pretender Chassis); from either CBM 1.6 or FW Thug
Awaken Ember Lord summons a Prodigal King (Pretender Chassis)
Wild Ettin summons a Shadowcat (Pretender Chassis)
Summon Shishis summons a Chaos Mage/Black Dragon and a Toad Demon
Summon Roc summons Another Monkey King
Awaken Aesir summons a Pantokrator
Gather Tears summons a Kong (Pretender Chassis)
Call Grendelkin summons a Menhir of Fortune
Curse of the Wendigo summons a Black Dragon
Awaken Treant summons a Menhir of Growth

Unaffected summons
Quest for the Fire Bird
Harness Rage; from either CBM 1.6 or FW Thug
Call the Eater of the Dead
Call Abomination
Elder Sign

Gregstrom April 5th, 2010 02:49 AM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Have you considered using pyg's mod combiner program (to be found in this forum)?

Sombre April 5th, 2010 08:20 AM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Yeah I think looking at the conflicts between random mods too deeply is pointless. Mods that aren't designed to work together are relatively likely to conflict. For them you just gotta combine them. If you try to get the author to move the IDs around they'll just end up conflicting with something else.

GoblinKing2112 April 6th, 2010 04:16 AM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
To Sombre: Kenny told me to post about the issues with those two mods. Mainly because he doesn't want to go through all the issues of fixing it while he's working on his own mods. Sorry for not being intelligent enough to fix it on my own.

To Gregstorm: Where exactly would I find this "pyg's mod combiner program"? My attempt at searching just brings me to your post that I'm replying to.

Edit: Never mind Gregstorm, I screwed around with Google to find it. Still, thanks for letting me know about it

Sombre April 6th, 2010 04:58 AM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinKing2112 (Post 739109)
Sorry for not being intelligent enough to fix it on my own.
wat

kennydicke April 6th, 2010 01:59 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombre (Post 739114)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinKing2112 (Post 739109)
Sorry for not being intelligent enough to fix it on my own.
wat
Now you see what I have to deal with. ;)


Anyway, my point was letting other people know that there are conflicts between the mods beforehand, not getting the author (or anyone else) to fix it.

Sombre April 6th, 2010 06:18 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
I think people should assume mods conflict unless it's stated somewhere that they don't. And if that statement is older than the newest version of either mod, they should discount that too.

Because 99% of mods are not designed to work with other mods.

pyg April 6th, 2010 09:38 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
I'd love to see someone pick up this mod and maintain/fix it and Antilarium (sp?). Kind of buggy, but I found them very cool and pretty. A lot of potential, great graphics.

Gregstrom April 7th, 2010 05:11 AM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
I like both mods, and even hosted a game using them :)

There are a couple of balance issues in the mods (krakens spring to mind), but they're otherwise good fun. The Monkey King pretender is missing full functionality, which could probably be added quite easily these days.

rdonj April 7th, 2010 11:37 AM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Yeah, the monkey king pretender was working for me in bandar log and patala, but his staff was missing in kailasa. Still not sure why, but there is no reason that it couldn't be fixed if someone put a little time into it.

As far as balance goes I have some serious concerns about the new death pretenders :P

Gregstrom April 7th, 2010 02:06 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Oh yes - I never tried those. Also, Jack of Shaadows has ridiculous Darkpower, IIRC.

The Monkey King is supposed to summon a number of clones in combat, looking at the code. That doesn't happen either.

Sombre April 7th, 2010 02:23 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
All easily fixed!

Gregstrom April 7th, 2010 02:40 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Indeed, and if I ever get non-lazy enough I'll do something about some of them. Although I've never created a spell, and I suspect getting the monkey king's clones working would take a #onebattlespell.

Sombre April 7th, 2010 03:32 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
You'd be right to suspect that.

Someone who actually makes use of mytheology should update it, really.

I see it being linked to a fair bit on the forums. Gandalf has expressed interest in it quite a few times, maybe he'll update it.

Soyweiser May 3rd, 2010 05:43 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
1 Attachment(s)
I made an update to the Mytheology 3.07r mod. I have been bold and renamed my version 3.08. A lot of pretenders now work again. And I tried to make some balance changes. (Nerfs mostly). There is still a lot wrong, and I could have done more. These are the changes so far:

Code:
- Moved some code around. Performed some cleanup.
- Renamed shuggoth to shoggoth. Which is the proper name for the Lovecraftian protoplasmic amoeba creatures.
- Improved the protection offered by the different circlets. They didn't really stack with normal armor.
Also decreased the construction costs and the path costs.
Pewter -> 8, Brass -> 13 Mithril -> 18
- Made the Psychic leech a misc item instead of a pair of boots.
- Removed redundant #clearmagic tag from the "Spider king"
- Changed Jack of Shadows darkpower to 5 (Still high, but not OMG EVERYTHING DIES high).
- Ubbo-Sathla can now spawn2 his own spawn.
- removed changes to Machaka, CBM already did this.
- swapped the monsterns on the chaos mage and the black dragon. Added pathcosts etc.
        If you want a multiform pretender to show up, his monsternr must be lower than his secondform.
- swapped the monsterns on the toaoist mage and the gold dragon.
- added bloodvengeance 1 to the menhir of courage. (Per notes, removed the whole Dakini part) Increased the prot to 22. Removed the weapon.
        it is kinda useless now.
- Changed the The Orb of Azathoth. It is now a new item. Igor's tome is back.
- Removed Revelation. As Holy spells are broken. (Moved them to .\mytheology\holyspells.txt)
- Changed desciption of the Diabolic Brigade. Now it is hopefully clear that you get imps.
- Nerfed the toad demon. Removed poison spikes, recuperation and reinvigoration. But I made it a normal amphibian. Which was the purpose of the monster. A beast that could enter the seas. Increased the cost to 88 blood slaves. Increased encumberance 4, supplybonus -30. As it allows the blooduser to branch out into earth. Decreased the cost as a pretender from 80 to 40. As the demon is now a bit weaker, and not a super good pretender SC.
- Changed the sprite of Ubbo-Sathla to the small version.
- Changed the sprite of Cthulhu to the small version.
- Removed Ubbo-Sathla second form (it was a bit overpowered :)). Added encumberance 4, reduced prot to 8.
- Removed the secondshape from the Ubbo spawn. Removed the acid spray from the spawn.
- Also made some unfriendly changes to Ubbo (and his spawn). #popkill 10 (1). #incunrest 10 (1). #leper 10 (1), #supplybonus -20 (-2) But added a pillage bonus 25 (5).
- Leper and popkill don't work on normal units
- Did you ever notice that the Pantokrator costs 358 points instaid of 350? This is because he/she/it had a random path. Removed now.
- The Ecclesiarch now has H3 and normal pretender domspread. (Not domspread 8 (which is as atrong as 8 prophets)). Mapmove 1 (used to be 2). (The popemobile is slow) Fear, Awe and Immortal. He is still to strong. 20 eyes is to much. I would rather see him autosummon minions in combat. Fixed his name.
- Fixed the monkey king EA weapon. Gave him Air 2 instead of air 1, air 1. He can now makemonster "another monkey king". Still doesn't summon them in combat.
- Made a list of all the different monster, armor, weapon numbers etc used. numbers.txt
- Removed immortal from the Grim Reaper. Removed gave him fear +1 (+3), removed awe 0. (D3 gives him additional fear) Way to strong otherwise. Size 6 (2)
- Menhir of Faith #spreaddom 1 (used to be 2). It now spread dom like prophet, instead of two prophets.
I also added some files to \mytheology:
changelog.txt (the above)
holyspells.txt (the removed not working spells)
numbers.txt (the used monster, weapon, etc numbers).

There is still a lot to test. And also a lot of different things to fix. But if anybody has some remarks. Post them here.

Globu May 3rd, 2010 06:45 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
The style of a lot of the mod is not really to my taste for the most part, but I might take a look at it again with your update -- thanks, Soyweiser.


And just a note on the holy spells part -- I know we've discussed it elsewhere, but for the sake of reference I thought I'd note here as well that the Revelation spell does and has worked fine for me, playing on the newest version on Dom3, for a long time. For me, it's just [m]onthly casting the spell that breaks it.

Though I should note, in case it matters, that I did copy the code for the Revelation spell out of the Mytheology mod and stuck it in my house .dm file, since I don't play with the mod. It probably doesn't make a difference, but just in case.

Soyweiser May 4th, 2010 09:02 AM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Globu (Post 743765)
The style of a lot of the mod is not really to my taste for the most part, but I might take a look at it again with your update -- thanks, Soyweiser.
I think a lot of the pretenders are horribly overpowered. And a few other stuff to. (And a lot just doesn't work as advertised yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Globu (Post 743765)
And just a note on the holy spells part -- I know we've discussed it elsewhere, but for the sake of reference I thought I'd note here as well that the Revelation spell does and has worked fine for me, playing on the newest version on Dom3, for a long time. For me, it's just [m]onthly casting the spell that breaks it.
I thought I wasn't the only one with a broken Revelation. And I'd rather not have spells that work for only a subset of the people. So I moved them to the holyspells.txt file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Globu (Post 743765)
Though I should note, in case it matters, that I did copy the code for the Revelation spell out of the Mytheology mod and stuck it in my house .dm file, since I don't play with the mod. It probably doesn't make a difference, but just in case.
Yeah, still have to test that. If that works. It is a problem with Mytheology itself.

Jack_Trowell May 4th, 2010 09:43 AM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Revelation as writen doesn't works for me with the last patch, but I used it as a template to create my own revelation spells, one for each magic type. (and thanks for the base effect by the way :))

Revelation: cloud reading (A1H2, Thaum 2, cost 2 air gems)
Revelation: lore of the ancestrors (D1H2, Conj 3, cost 2 death gems)
Revelation: holy brazier (F1H2, Thaum 2, cost 2 fire gems)
Revelation: secrets of Gaia (N1H2, Thaum 2, cost 2 nature gems)
Revelation: reading the entrails (B1H2, Blood 2, cost 3 blood slaves)
and so on ...

Depending on which nation I play (like Gandalf, I usually play solo, playing more against the map that the AI), I copy/past the appropriate spell(s) in a mod, sometimes with a small change (like maybe reducing the holy level to 1 for some nations)

As long as holy is not the main type and it cost normal gems the spell works fine, I can even use monthly casting.

Of course the main problem is that some nations do not have any mage-priests, and the only way to then cast those spells is empowering a priest or making a prophet from a mage. :(

Soyweiser May 4th, 2010 10:06 AM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Trowell (Post 743974)
Thanks for the base effect by the way :)
That is the work of: Psientist.

Just press thanks on the first page of this thread ;).

Gregstrom May 4th, 2010 11:27 AM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soyweiser (Post 743962)
I think a lot of the pretenders are horribly overpowered. And a few other stuff to. (And a lot just doesn't work as advertised yet.
Funnily enough, I think they aren't *that* OP. They make pretty good SCs in a lot of cases, which can be an issue. However, their prices balance that out in many cases. If you're using CBM at the same time, most of them don't stand out that far above the rest (exceptions apply, ofc.).

Ragnarok-X May 4th, 2010 12:04 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Without downloading it, can someone please tell me which weapon and armor # are used by this mod ?

Gandalf Parker May 4th, 2010 12:21 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Personally I love this mod, and never considered it to be an effort at balance. If anything it was rather on my list of mods going the other direction. Games with Mytheology, both heroes mods, magic sites mod, cpcs for more spells, and single age. In fact, the only one I havent found yet is a mod for adding more equipment to the game

Soyweiser May 4th, 2010 12:51 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnarok-X (Post 744013)
Without downloading it, can someone please tell me which weapon and armor # are used by this mod ?
Number usage:
Armor
304 Red Feather Cap
305 Golden Chain Mail
306 Skin of Brass
307 Skin of Mithril
308 Skin of Pewter
309 Papal Mitre

Weapon
791 Scimitar
792 Edge of Darkness
794 Acidspray
795 " "
796 Tiny Bite
797 Word of Might
798 Claws
799 Bite
800 Disintegration Breath
801 Crushbite
802 Soul Scythe
803 Gold Band Staff
804 Thunderclap
805 Lightning Snake
806 Harpoon Tentacle
807 Krakensbeak
808 Siege Stone
809 Black Vortex
810 Venom of Ophiox

Monsters: (ALL)
2915 Desire
2916 Desire
2921 The Astral Eye
2922 Teratos Rex
2923 Kong
2924 Kong
2925 Kong
2926 Jack of Shadows
2928 Protoplasmic Spawn
2929 Ubbo-Sathla
2931 Assassin Spider
2932 Assassin Mother
2933 Empress of Assassins
2934 Wraith King (Mounted)
2935 Wraith King (Dismounted)
2936 Cthulhu
2937 Cthulhu
2938 Cthulhu
2939 Elder Sign
2940 The Ethereal Eye --Secondshape of the Astral Eye.
2941 Siege Catapult
2942 The Infernal Eye
2943 Siege Trebuchet
2945 "The Earthen Eye
2946 The Aether Eye -- Earth eye secondshape
2947 The Celestial Eye
2949 Father of Medicine
2950 Menhir of Death
2951 Menhir of Fortune
2952 Menhir of Growth
2953 Menhir of Courage
2954 Menhir of Peace
2955 Menhir of Faith
2957 Gold Dragon
2958 Gold Dragon
2959 Gold Dragon
2960 Taoist Master
2961 Carrion Lord
2962 Scarab
2963 Prodigal King
2964 Morpheus
2965 Black Dragon
2966 Toad Demon
2967 Pantokrator
2968 Shadowcat
2969 Cytherean Priestess
2970 Chaos Mage
2971 Thunderbird
2972 Thunderbird
2973 Thunderbird
2974 Carrion Mage
2975 Great Egg
2976 Great Egg
2977 Great Egg
2978 Small Fish
2979 Portuguese Man O' War
2980 Crab
2981 Fallen Archangel
2982 Tarrasque
2983 Shah of Djinn and Ifreet
2984 Yggdrasil
2985 Another Monkey King
2986 Monkey King
2987 Monkey King
2988 Monkey King
2989 Grim Reaper
2990 Grim Reaper
2991 Grim Reaper
2992 Grim Reaper - Speacial manifestation for summoning, not pretender
2993 Aku
2994 Aku -- dragon shape
2995 Aku -- octo shape
2996 The Ecclesiarch
2997 God-King
2998 Sunwell
2999 Spider King

Modified Monsters:
438 Kraken
639 Kraken King

Gregstrom May 5th, 2010 04:15 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnarok-X (Post 744013)
Without downloading it, can someone please tell me which weapon and armor # are used by this mod ?
The Mod Compatibility Index (link in my sig) has the answers you are looking for.

Edit: Of course, you could also read the post above mine. Heh.

Soyweiser May 6th, 2010 10:02 AM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregstrom (Post 744413)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnarok-X (Post 744013)
Without downloading it, can someone please tell me which weapon and armor # are used by this mod ?
The Mod Compatibility Index (link in my sig) has the answers you are looking for.

Edit: Of course, you could also read the post above mine. Heh.
Currently It clashes with the endgame diversity mod. Since that mod is a lot used, and pretty nice. I'm planning to move the nrs in this mod around. But first! There are some issues still to be fixed.

The carrion lord is still broken for example. And some of the pathcosts are wrong (golden dragon has different ones in different ages). Aku waterform is not working. And the list goes on.

pyg May 8th, 2010 11:46 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
I really like your changes. You should spawn your own thread and take over this mod. You could even do it at that unmentionable place.

Soyweiser May 9th, 2010 09:32 AM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Pyg, You are just saying that to get the link into this thread ;).

And I'm afraid to go there. Sombre might say something nasty.

Gandalf Parker May 9th, 2010 10:33 AM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Well a new thread would allow you to edit the first post to make it easier for people to find the latest version as people have gotten used to here.

It also might allow a split between a version of Mytheology for balance, and one not.

Kref May 21st, 2010 03:40 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Isn't a "sea of scarabs" somewhat overpowered spell? It looks like a single pan with 2 nature gems can easily summon about 1000 scarabs (I don't know parameters of a single scarab). With this number, it's possible, for example, to block an attack of SC, it's not a small task to kill several hundrets of units in 50 turns. The spell creeping doom, also it require 3 nature, will cause the same amount of fatique, it costs 2 gems, and it makes only 70 creatures, i.e. six times less. I don't think creeping doom looks like a weak or not cost-efficient spell.

Zargen June 5th, 2010 03:17 AM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Where can you download the latest version?

Soyweiser June 5th, 2010 01:16 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Previous page is the last one that somewhat works. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showp...9&postcount=73 There. But this is a slightly different version than the one created by Psientist, some small updates have been done in the interest of game balance. And all the holy spells have been removed. See that post for the details.

I haven't forgot this mod. I'm currently working on it. I already fixed a few other bugs (including a few that have been around for years). And moved some of the monsternrs around, to make it compatible with endgame diversity and CBM 1.6.

When I release that version I'll start a new topic.

Soyweiser June 13th, 2010 04:58 PM
Re: Mytheology Pretenders 3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soyweiser (Post 747869)
When I release that version I'll start a new topic.
Get my version here: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45787


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