Re: You can't complain that this game is costly
 

Oh, I understand. It's just something that would add a lot of value to the graphics side of it for me if the units had more than two sprites.

Jazzepi

Re: You can't complain that this game is costly
 

Most of the people who complain about the price of computer games seem to forget that they're a luxury item, and that luxury items go for whatever people will pay for them. They've also been spoiled by the mainstream publishers' business model of soaking the early adopters for as much as they can before the word gets out about how bad the game is, then dumping whatever inventory they have left at fire sale prices. (I'd also mention people forgetting anything they learned in economics class, but most people haven't even taken one.)

Re: You can't complain that this game is costly
 

Games that are recognised to be great and come out to critical acclaim will drop in price just as quickly as crapfests if they are equally popular.

So I don't follow that 'drop the price when everyone realises how bad it is' argument at all. If I had to make a top 100 best games of all time, the majority of them would be dirt cheap by now.

Re: You can't complain that this game is costly
 

I'm all for more sprites per unit in the game, but I do understand and appreciate that just 2 sprites per unit makes things a whole lot easier to mod new things in.

To give you an example:
My 'Aksum' mod has 34 units that I've made sprites for, so far. Times 2, that's 68. With additional sprites, banners, etc. etc. and the like, let's say 80 sprites. If we add 1 additional sprite per unit-let's say for repelling, that's 120. A sprite for spellcasting/archery, that makes it 160. Add another for wounded/dying, you've got 160. 1 more for advancing-with-weapons-at-the-ready, 200. Berserk, 240. Resistant (fire, cold, poison, shock), 400. Fatigued, Paralyzed, Turned to Stone, Horror Marked/Cursed, Poisoned, Diseased, Morale-broken-peed-self-fleeing-in-terror, that's 560. You can see where this is going. Now take that times 80 for the approximate number of vanilla and mod nations in the game...2 sprites is ok. I don't have a problem with 2 sprites per unit.

Re: You can't complain that this game is costly
 

You're operating under the assumption that those new sprites would be required. It would be simple enough, if it were thought of in advance, for the game engine to plan on using only two sprites, but when a new condition comes up, or the unit takes a specific action, the engine could check to see if there is a sprite available for that action/condition.

Jazzepi

Re: You can't complain that this game is costly
 

Oh I know. I suggested adding something like 12 separate sprites per unit maybe a year ago (I think it was in one of the mod suggestion threads?), and that was based around the idea that the Devs wouldn't have to go back and redo that many sprites for each Nation. Adding more would be nice, and it could possibly be done unobtrusively. I'm just saying that-as a mod maker-I can live with just 2 per unit.

Re: You can't complain that this game is costly
 

I'm not sure about whether 60$ plus S&H is too much or not, but I do think that one issue an expensive game can have is more piracy than a cheap game. A game thats ~30 bucks or so 3 months after release is cheap enough for people who aren't fanatics to buy and enjoy. Limewire's already killed the cd industry, not that I'm lamenting it, but the same can be a problem for small indy devs.

Re: You can't complain that this game is costly
 

I'm pretty sure price fixing killed the CD industry. Greed dug their own grave.

Jazzepi

Re: You can't complain that this game is costly
 

I dunno, although now that I think about it Itunes and other digital music vendors probably helped a lot. I'm a little averse to ascribing failure of a whole industry to moral failures or stupidity. One company maybe, or even a number of them, but the whole industry? People just don't buy CDs anymore period. Besides thats kinda irrelevant to my larger point, even if I'm exaggerating a bit.

Re: You can't complain that this game is costly
 

IMO the record labels created incredible pressure outwards away from their products by producing an artificially high price for a CD. Even though the price of minting and production had fallen, the price of the CD stays the same. Normally when the cost to the producer goes down, the price of the product goes down in turn, since there's a competitive advantage at selling for less than your competitors in the market place.

But since they were fixing prices and creating a non-competitive enviroment...

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/n...ttlement_x.htm

... the large labels charged a relatively outrageous price for CDs despite the lowering costs.

The high price turns people off from buying the product, but since there was no alternative, there was no choice. The moment MP3s hit the internet with Limewire, bearshare, Napster, there was suddenly a much cheaper (IE Free) choice for getting music. It's not just that you could download stuff for free, it's the fact that the music industry did such a terrific job of pushing people away from their products by installing DRM on CDs...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_So...ection_scandal

... and charging way too much for a product that should cost a lot less.

The way I see it, the rise of the internet pirate is a direct response to the CD price fixing cartel.

Jazzepi

Re: You can't complain that this game is costly
 

Okay you win Jazzepi. I was only using an example though, we've both just gone OT debating soemething that really doesn't matter.

Re: You can't complain that this game is costly
 

Jazzepi is the win! \o/

And Dom3 still isn't costly. :rolleyes:

Re: You can't complain that this game is costly
 

A common lament. And I would believe it.
Except for all of the (musicians, programmers, artists, etc) who say they will break the mold, start an effort on their own, and end up in the same boat or fail. I cant quite figure that they all just joined the conspiracy.

Have you ever read the story of Shrapnel?

Gandalf Parker

Re: You can't complain that this game is costly
 

You don't have to join a conspiracy, to get bought out by one. Musicians, by and large, have absolutely 0 say and 0 sway in their own industry. They want to succeed? Well, they sign with the major label that will promote them. Most successful bands that you know these days that have their own label - why, they got their break with a major label, and they were just very savvy, saved up their money, finished their contract, and made it out on their own. Most artists get locked into the corporate machine, and never manage to break free. Same with game makers. Sure, maybe some of the developers who are distributed through Shrapnel support themselves with their software sales - but I doubt very many at all. If they want their games to pay the bills, they join a studio. And again, most of them never get out of that trap.

Part of why Shrapnel succeeds in the way that it does, is there is little pressure. They can serve the long term interests of their developers, as well as the interests of their players. By the same token, you could make some recordings of you and your banjo, belting out old Elvis tunes (shudder), but regardless of whether or not you find a way to make that project "successful", it'll never support you. To make a living at it, you pray someone finds you, and gives you the tools that you can't come up with by yourself.

I would be a fool to say that our JK and KO are quite unique in their programming abilities. Granted, they are very rare indeed, but what is more rare is their ability to see a project of this size through to completion. There are a million programmers out there who could make a good game (at least, a good -niche- game), but who don't have the stamina to ever complete anything even close to this size and scope.

So, the industry preys on both ends, you see. They prey on the producer, and they prey on the consumer. Like any corporation, they become voracious and entirely self absorbed. And that's why Shrapnel is different, because it isn't a "corporation" per se (I don't know if they actually are incorporated, though I doubt it), and so it still retains some measure of humanity, and along with it the understanding that managing your resources can give greater yields than devouring them.


Whew.

<3

Re: You can't complain that this game is costly
 

Sorry but Ive been involved in both marketing industries (music and game) and I have to disagree. From the outside it would appear that there are no choices except the big boys but that is not at all true. There are levels anywhere from free to major contracts in both markets. All of the options have their pros and cons. None are automatic failure (or automatic wealth) so its up to the individual which way they want to jump. Any of the methods make money, but going with the major contractors is the way to make LOTS of money. So if that was the choice of the artist/developer then you cant really knock the tactics.

Gandalf Parker