Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

I imagine that if you give a chayot a RoW, you will be able to empower him based on the buggiest higher values.

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

The RoW bug is great for diversifying Ashdod's magic--you can do cross-path stuff like forge the Ark. I can't imagine that it would be a big deal on a SC though, because you don't have time to cast all the buffs it enables. My typical Chayot script is

Divine Blessing
Body Ethereal
Personal Luck
Resist Magic
[Astral Shield]

I can imagine dropping Astral Shield in favor of Invulnerability or something, but you lose a misc slot and pay an extra 36 gems for the RoW. To me this isn't worth it.

-Max

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

Max,
Do you recall if after the ROW the stats are boosted? I don't.
Ie., is prot boosted by E? MR by S?

Also, if you twiceborn a Chayot with a ROW what magic paths are retained?

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

S doesn't boost MR. I don't recall whether RoW boosts Prot from E (although a boost of 1 is pretty negligible anyway). Edi has reported that Chayot and Seraphim do not receive a boost to their natural FireShield effect from extra F, so it's possible that they're also weird about other misc effects like Prot from E.

I've never twiceborned Chayot (who empowers Chayot in Death anyway?), but I should mention that I happen to know that Phoenix Pyring Chayot stops them from shapechanging upon death (i.e. if you die w/ more than 100 fatigue, you just die instead of becoming the next Chay form).

-Max

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

Belphagor

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

Gorgon, simply for the petrify.

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

This is probably a good limitation. Imagine the hydra unique, on Phoenix Pyre...

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

Hmmmm

4 Communion master with phoenix pyre, well in advance of the 8-10 communion slaves. Cover the whole line of battle

Comm Ms - Com Mas, FireShield, Phoenix Pyre, hold, hold,

Com Sl - Body Ethereal, Personal Luck, Communion slave

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

I'm not sure what the goal of the above communion is--is it a linebacker communion where you're going to send the slaves in on Attack Closest while the masters fire crossbows? In that case, why aren't the masters casting different buffs? (Summon Earthpower/Invulnerability/Personal Luck/Soul Vortex/Phoenix Pyre/Fire Shield/Resist Magic/Astral Shield spring to mind.) Each slave will get every buff cast by at least one master.

The sad thing is, in my experience, whenever Phoenix Pyre is relevant in this setup (i.e. you're facing something that can actually kill ultra-buffed communion slaves) it tends to become irrelevant, in that the slaves pick up lots of nasty afflictions from their deaths without the weak fire attack doing real damage to the nasties that are killing them. I dunno, maybe if I tried this on slaves with worthwhile weapons instead of random Ktonian Necromancers with quarterstaffs it would work better. Essentially you'd be relying on Soul Vortex + magic weapons to do the actual killing, with Phoenix Pyre as simply insurance vs. failing an MR check vs. Disintegrate/Soul Slay.

-Max

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

The point is that the slaves can't attack if the master(s) keeps casting spells after the buffs. A single Paralyze will stop one enemy and ALL of your communion-thugs!

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

This thread always gives me the desire to have a bunch of exclusively wishable SC's in the game. If I had my way, this feature of the Wish spell would be replaced by a separate high level spell that could be used to wish for a broad selection of SCable chassis that you couldn't otherwise get with any other spell, Nation, summon, or magic site.

Making every unit in the game Wishable just seems to cause problems, anyway. That's why we have Grigori in the game, afterall. Why allow one Nation to wish for the hero or the god of another Nation? It seems forced, and the same chassis seem to be wished for, over and over. Besides, it kind of erodes the specialness of Pretenders if you can just wish for one, collecting them like trading cards.

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

So you're saying it *is* a linebacker communion? Then why are the masters all casting the same buffs? Also, why are the slaves set *behind* the masters? Shouldn't they be placed forward so they're in position to attack?

The solution for the problem you cite is to either

1.) make the masters attack too (they're not as uberbuffed, but it's simpler so I usually do this),

2.) give the master a crossbow and set him to Fire, or

3.) have a master cast Blink. Soul Vortex + Fire Shield can kill things even if the slaves are sitting there passively because a master cast a spell. I've never tried #3 but it's at least potentially a real use for Blink. ;)

-Max

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

It seems this isn't the thread I thought I was replying in. :confused: I thought I was answering to a question about using crossbows in a communion, instead of a question about the purpose of a spesific communion.

I think I'll go sleep now, before I do something weird again.

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

I think the point was to have exploding communion masters who shared their fatigue with the slaves in order to explode again and again. Though I honestly don't think it works that way.

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

It's been reported that Phoenix Pyre fatigue (from dying) is shared via a communion, although I don't know if it's pathlevel-adjusted like spells are. So I guess the point of having slaves cast Body Ethereal/Personal Luck is just to harden them against random arrows and such, while the masters wade into personal combat?

It could work. The problem I see is that 1.) Phoenix Pyre is a weak attack (10 AP although w/ AoE 50), 2.) since your damage strategy relies on dying a lot, you'll pick up lots of nasty afflictions like Mute and have to get new masters for the next battle. I see this having use mostly in desperate situations like "must retake capital from surprise attack without any chaff troops or skelly spammers." In most other situations it would be better to just rain Falling Fires on them, w/ Phoenix Pyre as an insurance measure and not your primary damage tactic.

-Max

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

In response to 2: You only need base F1S1 on the communion masters, which puts them firmly in the disposable category.

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

How many F1S1 mages are there? I personally see this more as the ultimate chaff clearing tool. It seems like it has the potential to clear out Ermorian hordes very quickly. The problem is that there are better spells for that.

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

I'm having trouble classifying 10AN+AoE50 as a "weak" attack. It may not be the strategy to take down packs of giants or to eliminate thugs, but against -most- chaff, it is extremely brutal.

If you have access to E+S mages, you only need an F1 as the master, as if you have enough slaves to distribute your fatigue, you are only worried about afflictions, not actual death. Thus, a Crystal Matrix allows you to use very cheap mages (if you have access), and you can theoretically clear quite a lot of chaff.

Note, this is probably mostly only of use for a nation who has access to FR troops, that can handle the bombs going off near your own lines. ;)

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

It's AP, so the first explosion will probably just get the chaff down to 4 hp.

Once, I tried some abuse with Abysia and phoenix power in single player, and got very surprised when my fire immune troops got hurt. Turns out it's not fire damage at all. Just looks and tastes and smells like it. Old post with screenie of abysians and phoenix pyre.

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

Well hot diggity. You see, apparently it's "explosive" damage, which is kinetic. :D

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

Thanks mivayan!

I was about to try myself some exploding Abysians! :shock:

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

Somewhat back to the original topic of the thread: What good SC chassis can be wished underwater? I'm going for a Wish end-game with a water nation, but noticed my pretender chassis, which I planned on be the one casting Wish, can't ever get out of the water (Scared Statue. Whoops).

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

Vastness is an entertaining SC, if you have 50 earth gems to burn on empowerment. And it's amphibious so you can wish for it underwater.

-Max

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

Just teleport your sacred statue to a land province you own (preferably with a lab in it already). You can't buy a sacred status with less than 3S, and it's already amphibious.

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

The point of casting luck and body ethereal is so that you don't kill your slaves with random blink + explosions.

Plus to prevent your enemies from killing with stray arrows. AoE 50 is pretty big.

More to the point, this strategy requires really only a few F1S1 mages, and more straight S1 sages, for example.

There are also some other .. interesting possibilities - but they up the costs.

A. Script them to attack whatever class you want... Large enemy monsters.
B. Equip them with bows of war, script them to fire.
C. Include a Blood Mage with the Relief spell.
D. IF you have 2-3 of these mages, you can cause the enemy not to be able to conquer a territory, due to time out.

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

Can't a sacred statue just teleport out of the water? Even aquatic beings can teleport out of the water if given an amulet of the fish.

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

You might be mixing it up with the Sphinx, which really can't move. It can't even teleport.

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

That's why I always get death magic on my Sphinx. Stygian Paths is a wonderful spell.

Edit: You could wish for more of the water royalty if all of them have been summoned already. Thier regeneration is amazing.

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

I don't think that would actually work in practice. Mages with nothing but Fire Shield and Phoenix Pyre are pretty fragile, and frequently get killed twice or more in a turn. Your only source of reinvig is the 5/turn from being > 100, so even with all the slaves to share fatigue I think you won't survive long enough to reach timeout.

-Max

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

> That's why I always get death magic on my Sphinx. Stygian Paths is a wonderful spell.

I had a vision of a most strange-looking sneaking stone sphinx passing through the stygian realms with a horde of scared little human followers, much to the surprise of Hades, Nergal and their likes.

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

Here's something I'd like to try, If you give some 4 armed commander, a Davana for example, 4 Eye Shields and fly him in a heavy Tartarian province could he blind them all? That is does Eye Shield have MR check?

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

Don't remember bout the Eye Shield (probably it does though), but mind that usually if one has tartarians, he will almost surely have a way to get rid of afflictions, as they come when summoned with very nasty afflictions already...

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

Well, yes but you're not just gonna leave them hanging around blind you're gonna kill them.
Than again it's far easier to send someone with stone bird, gloves of gladiator and boots of quickness to knock down anyones defense in just one turn and then smite him down with something very powerful, I don't know if someone already mentioned this I haven't read the thread.

But it be interesting sending someone to blind the enemies sacred army for example, I'd had the pleasure to experience it myself, many blessed F9W9 jaguar warriors blinded and than massacred by damn meneads thanked to Jazzepi.

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

About the eye shield, yes it is a magic resisted effect. I was trying to blind a cyclops SC, The battle lasted 50 rounds and he still can see. :re:

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

That could just mean that there was never a successful melee shield parry in that battle. What was the cyclops' attack, and what was your unit's defense?

He has to actually hit the shield to get blinded.

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

the blindness would be negated via magic resistance IIRC, but there are other ways to ruin someones tartarian filled day.

i remember once i was playing a small mp with some close friends, 1 had a particularly awesome clam factory aswell as a rainbow pretender who earned him quite a massive gem income, he popped up nexus and seemed to have invested a stupidly large amount of pearls into it because noone could dispel it.

later came the stupid amounts of geared up tartarians and though we all ganged up on him we just couldn't break through, armies were shattered, communions overpowered, raiding squads resulted in teleporting empowered tartarian dumped down on them, teleporting seraph resulting in 5 teleporting tartarians - it was ridiculous.

however the rather smart chap playing C'tis seemed to have found the remedy, he summoned a devourer of souls and teleported a comunion around with it to cast buffs and hold tartarians down with spells like tangle vines, he had also taken a rather large horde of chaff along to take the battering and reduce the tartarians defence skill via multiple attacks, and 1 by 1 (well 3 by 3, he aimed for large numbers of tartarians) tartarians fell to his devourer of souls.

it actually looked like nothing could go wrong at this point, untill the devourer of souls got enslaved by uber astral communion:doh:

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

Impressive story :) Sound like a very exciting end-game.

Re: What SC do you wish for?
 

Heh. I believe Devourer of Souls is unique, so the guy with the clam factory could also have wished for it to deprive C'tis of its services. Uber communion is good too.

There's not much you can't do with a huge supply of pearls. :)

-Max