Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

I'd go with an S9F6D9, if anything. Helps circumvent High protection, and is very good in late game.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

missiles are the way to kill jag warriors.

a bunch of massed super cheap archers or slingers are surprisingly effective. The cheaper and the more massed the better.

edit: also, i don't see any point in taking a weak S bless for jags, the whole point of that blessing is to make them have to be hit once more yet before dying, bringing the minimum "hits before I can possibly be dead" to three. anything less than the twist fate is wasting points.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

Reading this thread is like seeing a train wreck that was caused by placing a penny on the tracks. Everything is fine. People are learning really valuable information. Then, out of the blue, a completely subjective discussion on the optimal jaguar warrior bless consumes the thread. num-num-num

I'd like to see what form of chaos can occur by randomly dropping in a completely irrelevant comparison.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

Amulet of Resilience > Ring of Regeneration

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

You can't put those on a jaguar warrior unless you GoR him, though I agree that reinvg would be better overall in that situation.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

Jag Warriors = cheap *** tactic
missiles = cheap way to counter

thus, we are still well within the paramters of the thread.

choo-choo!!
chuggachuggachuggachuggachugga
choo-choo!!

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

bunch of death 1 mages casting frighten,

gems needed for spell = 0
research needed = 0
skill of mages needed = very low death magic

the enemy retreats = Priceless

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

Tifone.. Whats the point on N4...with Jag warriors.

I don't really quibble with any of these comments about jag warriors. I was really making the point that a single bless on such an awesome bless platform is a waste of time.

The advantage of an S4 is the ability to Arcane Skullcap, Ring of Sorcery, Ring of Wizardry Astral Boosters. Plus the signature weakness of Jag Warriors is Magic Resistance.

The advantage of an N4 is somewhat similar. Regen cuts down the rate of affliction, although jag warriors have some resistance to afflictions anyway due to second shape.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

Given their good survivability comes from the double shapes (no one-hit-kill, though second shape) and that they have a good chance to heal afflictions AFAIK when they revert to normal shape, spending points on an N bless seems pointless to me. 5% healing and reduced chance of affliction can be good on expensive High-HP units with no chance of healing afflictions by themselves, not on jags IMHO.

Of course I agree with you about jags been an awesome sacred which asks for more than just 1 high bless. But with all the other options useful and nice one way or another, N seems by far the less useful, that's all :)

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

Since it's OT, my optimal bless for Jags would be Fire 9, Death 4, Blood 6, with Smoking Mirror.
That grants +4 att, +6 fire damage, afflictions x100%, and (I think) +3 Str. All on a Pretender that starts with those paths, and can really *use* those paths (they're not wasted on unnecessaries, like water), so it's the cheapest triple bless (maybe) in the whole game.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

If your raiders leaders are being remote spell hunted to death (earth attack, mind hunt, ashen angel) Buy an independent commander in the province you just took. The purchase happends before the spells. odds are now 50/50 that the inde commander will take the mind hunt instead of your raider.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

You can also have scouts travel with the armies. Indy scouts are cheap (20 gold) and give the illusion that the commanders are unprotected from these spells.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

Vastnesses are wonderful units.

With an enormous move, Blood Vengeance... whats not to like?
However, people Gor them in order to make them commanders - so someone can move with these great units.

However, if you GOR them, they get astral 3, which makes them easy to kill via magic duel. (<---tactic).

However, I wonder if they get any slots at all if they did a slave collar (feeblemind) should get rid of the susceptiblitiy to magic duel.

Or alternatively, if you have a very good ally that would be willing to hit them with a bow of botox.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

What? How in the hell did we get into Vastness?

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

cheap counter to Gor'd vastness: Magic Duel.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

I think the "low cost" part of the tactic is the cheap slave collar. But Vastnesses don't have any slots, not even 1 misc.

Edit: oops, simultaneous post.

Chris is right, Magic Duel is a cheap "low cost" tactic that not everyone uses when they could.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

Magic duel is an excellent method. It was used hugely in Aquarium. First by Jotunheim, who suicided his sages and hags in cost-effective mind duels against MA Ermor, and then my usage of mindduelling nahualli to halt Ulm's SC golem's in their tracks.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

Shh. I'm playing Ryhla. I want GoR Vastness. Gimme, gimme, Gimme. Bwahahaha.

As far as I'm concerned Markarta troops are the absolutely best krill. Archers for 5 gold. Mm mm good... I've used them to repel elephants. For some strange reason they just get pushed around but still live. Well mostly. Is there some sort of agility test to be trampled? I'm not sure but I've seen it happen more than once with these troops. Anyway if you're blessed enough to get these troops, buy them by the bushel. They are a powerful addition to your armys. :D

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

If the bug with flaming arrows and small bows gets fixed, markata archers will become the most cost effective archers.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

Trample checks Defense, and markata have high Defense.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

They also have small size which makes the trample more effective,... but that might only be in terms of damage. Still, 6 per square means they get trampled at a faster rate.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

That's where it would be fun to be able to add MoV death-fireballs directly to units, as abilities. Put that effect on some low level, size 1 units without a lot of defense, and size 6 Tramplers would be in a world of hurt.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

Now there's a summon that I think would catch more wind than the immobile trampler blocker. ;)

Actually, it would be an awesome spell anytime, and balanced by the natural tendency to produce catastrophic friendly fire casualties. :happy:

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

LA Agarthan Flame Corpses have this effect. Size 2 though, and they don't explode for all that much damage, area 9, 10 damage or something like that.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

Flame Corpses would be much more interesting if they were summoned in groups of 3-4 exploding Clockwork Horrors, instead of lone, slow metal-zombies.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

Cool idea ... I can imagine them making a high-pitched mechanical scream as they zip around the battlefield getting hotter and hotter as they build up fatigue, and then they explode! Unless you smash then, in that case they'd explode right away.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

I don't know if it counts as low cost tactic, but good basic combined arms with indie heavy infantry backed up by javelin throwing indie light infantry makes a nice and effective basic army unit. Get 40 each with two basic commanders, and you have nice little army.

Those bows or war really are a nice way to get archers. Maybe give them a bit of armour and missile protection if you can affoard the gems, and they won't even get killed by counter fire like normal archers.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

Be sure to move javelins, slingers, archers, etc off to the side. It gives them a better view of their targets and creates fewer friendly-fire hits against your own men. Even casters if they are slinging magic can benefit from a side view of the combat.

Also take note of how your enemy places units. The AI for example likes to place archers on his right flnk (the top of the screen). So if you are targeting archers then place your shooters on your left flank (top of the screen) to give them a direct view. Having them shoot over your units can tend to hit more of your guys than his.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

Thanks Gandalf, I've never been quite 100% sure of how the line-of-sight thing goes.

When it comes to javelineers, I'm a traditionalist though. I like having my heavy infantry form the line of battle, and the javelineers throwing over their backs, roman style. If the enemy line is too wide, the javelineers will help keep them from outflanking the heavies, and they will step into gaps that form when the heavies fall.

I'm just a sucker for the classics.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

That will work if your infantry are slow, or set to hold and attack. But if they run out ahead then the distance seems to decrease the accuracy.

I do tend to set my shooters to the side AND abit farther back than the infantry. That helps to keep them from being chosen for a rush by the enemy. Having the infantry just abit forward of the flankers helps to make sure they get targeted as they should.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

Most of your observations seem to gibe closely with mine. But this one, I am quite positive that the AI flip-flops the layout occasionally. I've noticed this especially in regards to their cavalry placement, sometimes they flank left, other times they flank right.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

Battle placement is up field and down field. Not left and right flank. If you place units at the top of the screen, they will be at the top regardless of being the defender or the attacker.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

That's too drastic a modification, I am afraid :)

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

You wanna fight about it?! :shock:

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

I'm pretty sure they do flip.


It's still 5 gems for something that will only help you if your Nature-and-some-element mage spends several turns summoning creatures that aren't very good even at a lower price. Dragon Master only affects summoning spells for Cave, Fire and Frost Drakes and Wyverns, not Tarrasques, Iron Dragons or any other "dragon" summons.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

They don't flip. Top is always top and it is left when you attack and right when you defend. But the distance from the enemy is always the distance from the right side of the placement box. Yes, it's a bit weird.

Re: Low Cost Tactics
 

Wait, wait. Never casted dragonmaster. It only affects the caster and not the other mages?? Waste of wastes....