Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (4 left) - starts 11
 

Wow, that's a big pond you got in the middle there. And I have to say I'm with the Don on this one. I've grown to dislike the wide openness of the random maps after a few bad experiences and find that it lacks the same sort of strategical expansion you'd find in handmade maps. I'll keep in though.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (4 left) - starts 11
 

Cleveland, I really like your idea of 27 hour hosting and think it will work out well. But if, as seems likely, 24 hours isn't enough time for everyone to get their pretenders submitted I wonder if it might be better to start the game on Mon./Tues. with regular 27 hour hosting rather than wait until next weekend to begin.

As regards the map, I think there should be at least one land nation starting on the SW landmass. Given that the water nations are getting 15 provinces each I don't think they should have easy access to land. And there should be a land connection to either end of the SW landmass. Also, the land start north of the SW landmass seems too good - lots of space around it compared to some of the other starts.

Lastly, I also tend to prefer the hand-drawn maps. Both because they look better and because they tend to have better balance than the random maps. So perhaps we should consider one of those.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (4 left) - starts 11
 

Nope, cannot do it *this* weekend, or practically any weekend. I have about a 2-4h block of time on the comp and that's it, so I'm just letting cleveland know.

And yeah, while it's nice to get a couple extra turns in, meh, I really don't care about speeding through the game anyway, not like I don't have other MP games going which take up more of that time anyway.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (4 left) - starts 11
 

I agree it looks tight at first glance, but look closely at the size of the provinces in the Southeast corner - they're all very small, and consequently that area has a very high province density. I'll definitely grant that the southernmost "coastal" start is probably the toughest on the map, and will be removed (and the area rearranged) if we can't fill the roster entirely.

Same goes for the west - it seems roomy, but there are quite a few high-surface-area provinces, giving it a low province density. The "lone" western province therefore certainly seems to be the best start, but after initial expansion, you'll only have 1 (maybe 2) neighbor(s), who ain't exactly gonna be surprised when you attack...

Partly by design (had to work with what the mapgen gave). It wouldn't make any sense to start a land nation in the SW, and with so many land nations so close together on the NE landmass, it'll be very difficult for the water folks to come ashore. We don't want them to be bored, so they can duke it out for that patch of dirt. I set most of those provinces to "small" to limit it's overall usefulness.

Well we certainly wouldn't want to lose you. I expected it'd be tough with so many players. If you're sure you can't do the 12hr, we'll start at 27hr.

I haven't heard back from Xeitor regarding the Fallacy map yet, and it's no longer available through that game's link. I put this one together in case Xeitor can't dig it up. I'm certainly not married to this map, and would be happy to run the game on Fallacy - or anything else you guys like.

Cheers,
cleveland

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (4 left) - starts 11
 

Seems perfectly reasonable. I suppose this has been a pretty rushed start...I was just trying to avoid the 6-week lead time that normally accompanies new games. Probably in everyone's best interest to wail until Monday, though I'll be hesitant to push it further back.

Start changed to Monday @ 12 GMT @ 27hr quickhost.

Do you have any hand-drawn maps in mind?

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (4 left) - starts 11
 

I'd like to take Arcoscephale if no one else has ...

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (3 left) - starts 11
 

I'd like to join as Caelumif its still open

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (2 left) - starts 11
 

I've checked llamaserver and the game is not up yet

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (2 left) - starts 11
 

A small question:
Can I update my pretender design after my uploading？ I believe there is no overwrite function for pretender uploading yet.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (2 left) - starts 11
 

I'm pretty sure you can update your pretender as long as the game hasn't started yet.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (2 left) - starts 11
 

@Cleveland: Hmm, good question. I was thinking of Glory of the Gods but we may already have too many land nations. With 18 land nations the average is 12.6 provinces per player; if we get the full 20 land nations it will be 11.3. I've never played on Alexander but that would give us one more province per land player.

In any case, I'm fine with the map you generated. I just think we should connect the SW landmass with the other landmass - that way we can also start a nation or two in this area. I also think that lone western province is too good a start position.

@hunt11: We can't create the game on the llamaserver until we decide on a map.

@BesucherXia: Fakeymcfake is correct, you can revise your pretender until the game starts.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (2 left) - starts 11
 

Llamaserver won't let me start a game without a map.

Xeitor is graciously trying to find the map from Fallacy, a past All-MA game which used a handcrafted map by Velusian that was specially designed for All-MA MP. Once it's found - assuming there are no objections - the llamaserver entry will be created. :up:

I suppose I should have clarified my earlier post: I've created a map just in case we can't find anything better, which shouldn't be hard. :)

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (2 left) - starts 11
 

To be honest, I think the map you generated looked great - IF it were a wrap-around (though I would tend to agree, large tracts of land without some sort of physical barriers, tends to be annoying, and give too much power to the highly mobile).

Anyway, I could do a jiffy job of making it wrap-around, or if you managed to get another that is as nice, but maybe with a bit higher amount of impassable mountains.

What I do with the mapgen, is I set it to Border Mountains, and then by hand I place actual Mountain terrain where the layout implies certain provinces are more mountainous than others, then clean up the connections here and there, and then assign potential start locations. If you wanted me to see what I can come up with, I could just do all the other work, then forward it to you for starts if you like (I generally just apply a heavy layer of No Start provinces, rather than set specific starts, myself).

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (2 left) - starts 11
 

I have emailed the Fallacy map to Llamabeast. And I am trying to upload it now to llamaserver. But it is a new feature that I am not familiar with. Though you may have to be starting a game(which i am not) to upload a map.

So I am going to post the map and image file on this thread as well.


image http://www.mediafire.com/?wmbdw2ajiza

map file should be attached.

I like this map as their are 2 continents, with 2 access points to each. Fallacy had 22 players, and all 3 water races, though of course Oceania did not last long. Ryleh was a major power, and Atlantis was still alive when the game ended, so the map is not that bad for water.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (2 left) - starts 11
 

I think we may need to request that llamabeast upload the map himself. Last time I heard, the upload feature was broken. The Fallacy map is pretty nice, I think.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (2 left) - starts 11
 

Has anyone played Glory of the Gods (multiplayer)? - it looks nice. By my calcs it would be about 13.3 provinces per land nation (assuming we stay at 18) and 15.6 per water nation.

Not sure if water nations ideally have a couple more provinces then land nations. Anyway, I am fine with Fallacy but thought I'd throw out a more visually appealing possibility.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (2 left) - starts 11
 

Glory of the Gods is a nice map and I think plays well (played one game on it). The problem is that it will be somewhat crowded even if we stop adding nations now. By my count it will average 12.6 provinces per land nation (227 provinces, 18 land nations).

While it doesn't look as nice as Glory of the Gods I really like the Fallacy map. I think I'd give that my vote.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (2 left) - starts 11
 

I meant to say "assuming we stay at 17" land nations (20-3) which is what my calc is based on, but I am happy to go with Fallacy.

Edit: While the first post reads 20 nations taken, I think it is actually 21, so your calc is right Valerius.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (2 left) - starts 11
 

since no one seems to want it I will take iron woods (is it THAT bad... i.e. machaka bad? ;) )

Or if sign up is closed that's fine too. let me know.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (2 left) - starts 11
 

the jots are good. machaka's not bad either :)

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (2 left) - starts 11
 

machaka certainly isn't bad, but they arn't good either. Yet for some reason they don't catch the same kind of negative press that nations like Yomi/Jomon/monkeys do, despite the fact that Machaka has ZERO wins ever.

The deal is they have a good base, but they just don't have any of those solid gigs that they can pull off that it takes to propel a nation through mid-game and into late. sacreds too expensive and cap only, top mages capital only, no nationals (NONE), no solid and affordable non-cap units. They have decent stuff available outside their cap, but for a nation that can't really swing a bless and has no summons, they just don't have enough. If the Bane Spider and the Spider infantry guy and/or the sacred spider rider were not cap only or if they had some good national summons they might be in business. Otherwise they are just a hair under par in ALL categories. The supposedly weaker nations then them typically have SOMETHING they can do, Machaka is just too pale; which is odd considering they're all black.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (2 left) - starts 11
 

Well, Machaka certainly looks like a wonderful pick, what with that sales pitch and no one wanting it.

Nonetheless, I think I'm willing to give it a try. If you don't mind a fairly newish player (only a couple MP games so far), count me in for Machaka.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (2 left) - starts 11
 

i'll take the Jotunheim then :)

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (2 left) - starts 11
 

Though I have never played Machaka in mp, but if I did I would take a nasty bless and ride those spiders as far as I could go. I would take either a f9 or n9 bless, though they likely need e4 as well. Maybe a f9 n4 e4.

But since they are capital only, to win the game, you need to think of a way to gate(astral) those spiders around the map in the midgame). Without having even tested at it, maybe an imprisoned monolith with f9 e4 n4 s4. shrug.

You do get some design points with machaka, but you likely need some production as well(:

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Signup/Open/Recruiting (2 left) - starts 11
 

Why would you take F9? Spiders have high-damage attacks with death poison. They do not need help dealing damage. I'd go E9 to crank up their already high protection and keep fatigue at 0. Once the rider dies, the spiders are cool and have nice HP, but they've got an MR of 6 or something. It's better to keep the rider alive IMO. E9 on a Colossal Fetish is doable. And your Fetish will let you actually grab some land early.

Spiders have got 3 attacks at 12/12/13, so they don't need a lot of help hitting. E9N4 will help keep them alive longer. Even though in rider form they've only got 13HP, with their great protection they will take just a few HP of damage usually. E9S4 gives a bit of protection versus Smites (while you've still got a rider), and sets you up better in the late game. At S4, your god is vulnerable to Magic Duel, but E9S6 is expensive.

Besides the spiders, you'll probably want Flaming Arrows ASAP.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

Good morning! And might I say WOW...we filled 23 slots in under 3 days. Outstanding.

And the icing on the cake: Xeitor has provided the Fallacy map!

I've tweaked it ever so slightly, and it is now available at the bottom of the first post. I ask that everyone please download it and provide feedback asap. If there are no glaring problems, I will open the llamaserver game at 10pm GMT tonight, so design your pretenders accordingly.

The map is shown below. Velusian's version has the following characteristics, which haven't been changed:
1) There are no set starting locations.
2) All lands with fewer than 5 land neighbors are NoStart.
3) All seas with fewer than 4 sea neighbors are NoStart.
4) There are no preset magic sites.
5) There are 330 total provinces, 35 of which constitue a continuous central sea. (14.3 prov/player, be ready for a knife-fight!)
6) Mountains are impassable.
7) Invisible land bridges join the 2 continents.

A brief changelog from the original map:
1) Minor connectivity inconsistencies were resolved, mostly regarding impassable mountains. Overall map connectivity has not been significantly changed.
2) Mountain & Boarder Mountain terraintype issues were resolved, resulting in an overall increase in both. With such a tight packing of players, the boost to planatary resources will be helpful.
3) Many provinces were given the Fresh Water designation. This is a wet map, and should be treated as such. All inland lakes are considered Fresh Water, and provinces touching them were set accordingly. Total Fresh Water provinces have probably tripled, though this has no impact on gameplay other than altering the frequency of certain magic sites (and maybe population?).
4) Inland provinces adjacent to fjords were given a connection to the closest sea. It's not unreasonable to assume an aquatic amry could traverse up a fjord unopposed, as is supposed by the narrow causeway in the Eastern portion of the map. Plus it acts to increase connectivity, and therefore strategic options. In practice, only 6 new connections were made (represeted by the yellow lines in the image below)
5) All provinces with only 1 neighbor were changed to Caves. 4 total (represented by the orange dots). This is mostly for flavor, and is aesthetically pleasing :)
Attachment 7254

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

f9 bless gives the spiders a magical attack, and your attack skill can never be "too high"
especially when machaka's sacred spiders can fight angels and other thugs with very high defenses effectively. Plus you get fire damage on all 3 attacks.

But as I pointed out, I did not actually sit down and design a bless for machaka. All I said is if I played them, I would take a very heavy bless and ride the spiders as far as they would take me.

It would require a lot of testing for me to ultimately decide upon the best bless. And to do that you also need to look at some of the units they likely will be fighting.

If memory serves, their pd is awful, so i likely would not take misfortune for design points.
But good luck to the player that took the spiders!

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

If you dig in the forums I started a thread discussing a machakan bless strat using w9 since I feel that it offers them the most benefit. f9 would be easier to get without mangleing your scales too much, but I didn't find it really helped that much (though I would recommend that you take a f4 minor bless if possible).

I believe I used a divine glyph (AWAKE of all things...) with f4w9s6, of course scales were not great, but I've not found the misfortune (at 2) to be too bad considering that you should also take O3. Drain is a bit of a pita, but you should be able to forge skull mentors natively, once you find some death income, and in MP finding death income is nominally not too difficult if you find someone willing to trade for hammers or fire or earth gems. You will probably also need to take a touch of sloth, but unless your capitol has a really bad starting position with respect to neighbors with resources, once you clear the area around it you have enough resources so as not to be limited there with your spider production.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

I would definitely want n4e4 in there at a bare min. Once the rider dies, the spider has a ton of hps and can really benefit from regeneration. That also helps keep afflictions down.

E4 is also key as fatigue can bring down even the best sc. In fact that is how I typically kill sc's.

Given their low mr without a rider though, and the number of s races in the middle era, maybe a s9 n9 e4 bless is the way to go.

And if you run into ethereal right off(ermor) use flaming arrows. Flaming arrows has to be high on your list as machaka I think in any event.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

With respect to the machaka spider bless, you can do the s9n9e4 with an imprisoned Sphinx order 3, 1 prod, 3 heat, 2 misfortune 1, 0 luck, and 2 drain. If you do not like bad events, or micromanagement associated with misfortune, scrap the 1 production
and take 1 death and 0 luck scales.

The berserk at n9 gives some protection boost, attack boost, and of course good units that fight to the death are always nice. Especially units with high hps, protection, and regeneration.

With 22 players in the game, make friends with a race with high research(ctis) and trade with them for some lightless lanterns and that drain 2 is more helpful than not.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

Okay, as I really dislike that map (it's pretty and all - for an SP map) for the same reasons I dislike many maps; it is actually really awful for aquatics.

So as I promised you Cleveland, here are 4 examples of my efforts with the generator last night, let's see if I can figure out how to get the images to display properly, I seem to remember it's more complicated than it needs to be.....


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...d/Comfort1.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...d/Comfort4.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...d/Comfort3.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...d/Comfort2.jpg

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

Thanks Cleveland, the map looks good to me.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

Okay, well that worked just fine! \:happy:/

Anyway, if there is any support for a change here (I think the one with the 2 lakes is fairest for water and land, and they are split perfectly for 1 aquatic in the small lake, and 2 in the large), then I will do up a quick job of fixing terrains, neighbors, and potential start locations, and post the completed file for mass consumption.

I ran the mapgen 30x last night, don't you want to sample my luscious fruits? :shock:

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

i vote to stick with Cleveland's map

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

Fallacy looks good to me, I'll just have to hope I'm not in the middle lake. I agree with Jim in that it forces conflict in the water, but thats what I want apparently, so looks ok for me :D

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

Fallacy map sucks for water races? Ryleh likely was one of the top 3 powers in Fallacy. He started in the right hand side, made peace with Oceania(middle water) and Oceania and Atlantis fought in water. Ryleh went ashore and took large chunks of land on the Northern Continent.

I think your have tunnel vision if you think the water races are limted to water, or that the map should give them a huge water area so that they have no need to come ashore.

I actually favor Making the water races come ashore if they want to be a major factor in the game, and not giving them a huge water area where they can sit and build tons of forts and clam until the endgame.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

Hi Jim. I agree that water nations have a tougher position with the Fallacy map but I think water nations are just kind of problematic. With 3 water nations in the game you can win 1 or 2 wars and then just camp out the rest of the game, clamming and researching in relative security. This makes me lean towards making it tougher, not easier, for water nations. I also vote to stick with Cleveland's version of Fallacy (though I agree map 2 looks nice).

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

Nonsense, Xietor.

The problem has multiple facets, with long strung out waterways.

First, it doesn't "force" underwater conflict, as you show with the strongest power out of the water being the one that made peace in the water. ;) Also, it severely limits underwater mobility, so those early aquatic wars become brute force tug-of-wars in narrow channels. With more solid water terrain, raiding and other tactics become viable, beyond just "my army must beat his army in province X, if it does I win the war, if it doesn't I lose".


But beyond that, I have 2 major complaints with the long skinny stretches of water, and I think they become the 2 primary reasons that water nations rarely win games, beyond considerations of the national capabilities -

First: While aquatics can (and should) get onto land early in the game to get a foothold, they still produce most of their elite forces underwater. Your coastal castles can build "something useful" usually, and your inland castles make nothing but indie troops. The severe lack in most maps of adequate places to put decent underwater castles (most spots have 2-3 neighbors), puts a severe limit on production of a nation's best troops (such as Icthycentaurs, or Shamblers of the Deep - let alone 40ish resource Basalt Pillars). Ironic that you used R'lyeh as your example, again, as most people rely on lobos and Illithids, which only require 1 resource apiece.

Second: The logistics of Dominion spread force aquatic nations to struggle to not be Dom killed, let alone to propagate their own beneficial Dominion just for the benefits that they spent design points on.


In my opinion, Glory is bad enough for aquatics, but this Fallacy map is even worse.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

None of the 3 water races had dominion issues in Fallacy. I agree that can be a concern in a cradles of dominion map. But this map is not that.

And it was a Bit## for me to go in and dig out the Ryleh fort by fort, and that was using crumble every single time. He had a fort in every water province. You can imagine the nightmare if he had 45 underwater provinces with a fort in every single one!

And even with a clam nerf in Fallacy(cost more to make), I think Ryleh had a substantial clam income. You have no mods here, so clamming is an even bigger concern on a large map with the underwater nations.

Atlantis was alive as well at the end of Fallacy, but he lost a war with the Ryleh(after Ryleh had his clams and communions going). In fact ryleh crushed both Atlantis and Caelum at the same time. And both of those nations had won earlier wars.

So you are not going to hear anyone crying a river for how tough the Ryleh have it. They are easily a top 2 or 3 race in the middle era.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

I already agreed that R'lyeh is the least hurt by the "decentralized lands" problem. I have not played MA Oceania, but I know that R'lyeh not only gets useful 1 resource troops in water, but their coastal castles have better recruits than Atlantis.

Just to clarify, I am not playing R'lyeh, so they are not my major balancing concern in the map. I'm playing Atlantis, which has some severe economic issues with spread out provinces, and whose coastal provinces only make Atlantian Light Infantry, which suuuuuuck so badly. Looking at Oceania, they will suffer even worse underwater when starved for resources, but I can't comment on their coastal recruits - though I am reasonably sure they are getting the worst of the deal.

While I agree that it's possible to turtle up underwater, and clam or whatever, it rarely seems to win the game - it only should if the rest of the world is either lazy, or deadlocked, otherwise once a land nation gets a strong advantage and leverages it, the aquatic nation with all those clams will likely be SOL by the time they realize they are actually losing.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

Jim - Thanks for putting in the time to try synthesize a new map. I agree with you: preventing the water nations from turtling is a major responsibility of the land nations. As Xeitor points out, failing to do so means a possible stalemate. Regardless, I appreciate the time you invested, I know how much it takes to get the mapgen to spit out a coherent water mass.

But it seems popular opinion hasn't budged from Fallacy, so we'll stick to it.

Speaking of which, I've identified a few more "fjord" type connections to be made for consistency. An updated picture of the map, with all fjord connections in Yellow:
Attachment 7257
Sorting out the connectivity of that NE island was tough, but I think a proper balance is struck by treating province 223, which is land cut in half by the sea, as a barrier to aquatic travel (represented by the red line). Presumably the inhabitants of this province would occupy both banks of the province, and therefore be able to stop any armies trying to travel through. Thoughts?

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

I appreciate your time too, Cleveland, you're doing good things with this game. <3

I'm unsure about the issue with 223. That waterway should be miles wide, and by extrapolation, is probably at least 1000' deep? Not sure the landlubbers would even know there were troop movements, let alone have researched Depth Charge technology to deal with it. Would be interesting if there were a mechanic to differentiate between deep sea dwellers (gillers) with surface water dwellers (lungers).

Anyway, we'll have a good game one way or another, and if I have to win on a map that is not very good for aquatics, then the victory dance will only be that much sweeter. And if I lose (95% or so probability!), then I'm blaming the map, not my pretender design, or any decisions I personally make thereafter. ;)

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

Me too. I'd originally tried simply connecting everything, but it turns out to be a convoluted mess...lots of connections, lots of aesthetically disturbing lines criss-crossing each other, very hard to decipher. I didn't want to simply eliminate the inland connections either, just because it's a neat geographic feature. I think this is a nice compromise, though I'm in full agreement that depth charges are definitely a LA technology. :)

Me too. ;)

Off to upload to llamaserver...

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

http://blog.stevienova.com/wp-conten...388B/9f042.jpg

Hmmm. Llamaserver seems to think the map is already located in it's databanks, and therefore won't allow me to upload it. A thorough scan of the map browser revealed nothing, though.

It's around midnight in the British Isles, so Llamabeast is probably either drinking Newcastle from a boot or dreaming of quantum electrodynamics in non-integer dimensions. Either way, I don't think we'll be online until the sun rises on the British empire...

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

see - this is why "machaka never wins" - people keep trying insane bless strats. go for scales, a good pretender, and spider knights/hoplite armies :)

oh, yeah, their PD is truly awful. don't bother with it, other than a pt or 2 to dissuade scouts.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

Machaka's hoplites in dom2 were awesome... and their archers were cheaper...not sure why they were nerfed for dom3. It's true that a critical mass of web attacks are shockingly effective in sp... but they'e never been a MP scarecard. also giving the sorcerors a break in the age dept (they have magic/demon blood after all) would go a long way to restoring machaka's battlemage potential. eagle eyes + fire darts is fun, but it stops there, pretty much.

I think Man will be ok in this game, it seems to me that CBM makes them weaker, so the old version with range 40 resource 8 longbows will do pretty well, even with the weaker pretenders.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

I have won my share of mp games. It is my humble opinion that the best, though admittedly small, path to victory machaka has is through an aggressive early game on the back of its Sacred Spiders. But there are more than one way to skin a cat.

You can get some of both worlds with a monolith s9n9 3order, 6 dom, 2 drain, 1 growth, 3 heat. Those are pretty good scales and gives you growth to lessen the old age effects of your best mages.

I have fought Machaka when it has had good scales, and it is basically helpless with hoplite armies. The stealthed banes can be easily mind hunted. The early thugs with constr 4 gear like banelords will plow through any castle bought troop that machaka can throw out.

In fact in 2 of the games I won I had 1 on 1 wars with machaka. And in both games they had decent players. And in both cases they had no bless and in both cases they were soundly beaten.

Though Sir_D_D did have an interesting strategy with them he had the Pheonix and used flaming arrows, arrow fend, hoplites, and various death summons and had several stealth bane armies, plus evocation spells.

But in the end they just came up short-way short-against Shinuyama who i was playing.
And when i fought them as Pythium it was a pretty big mismatch.

I think the sacred spiders with their web attack, poison, and a good bless, could make
Machaka somewhat feared. You could possibly get by without the e4 bless until you got relief depending on who you fought. But stellar cascades could be brutal for the spiders without it.

And the Monolith is superior to the Sphinx in that it can gate armies around. Oracle can gate as well, but i hate the 10 hps more than the immobility.

I guess you could always take a sleeping Lich, d5, e3, a3, and try to tie into death and use the Lich to beat off all comers in your dominion. That is a valid strategy with any nation. basically what I did with la arcos in Kingmaker, and what I would do if I ever played Man, Oceania, or any other race that had no tie in to thugs.

With diplomacy, and a Lich with the proper buffs, it is always possible to pull a game out of the hat.

All of that said, I have never played them in mp, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

old age does not affect machaka's mages so much - they tend to lose their afflictions when they "die"... We really should have a new machaka thread; KO has mentioned doing some work on them, and it would be nice to pique his interest in some way... I'd be happy w/ machaka if they had pd that wasn't utter ****e, and a buff to their sacreds or their troops.

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

KO probably meant that he's working on Machaka's EA version titled "Lion Kings". I wonder if this includes Simba, Pumbaa and Timon national heros...

Re: All MA Nations Game - "ComfortZone" - Full! - starts 11/17 - review map
 

Maybe my version of the fallacy map was uploaded by llamaserver after all. You may need to talk to llamabeast about the tweaks.