Re: Improve assassins
 

I got it. All are from blood sites. That's why I always miss them.
Thanks for your information. Maybe we only need improve its frequence/level a bit then?

Re: Improve assassins
 

Assasins are perfect as they are. They are cheap, and if you want to equip them, they can do the job most of the time. I would say assasins are good for one hit, maybe two. That's what you pay for.

Re: Improve assassins
 

Lingchih, yeah the assassins themselves are great. But the problem is if you don't buy an assassin you could buy a mage. Which is better. (Esp as they can use assassin spells later, with little chance of death. (of course this costs gems)). I like assassins for their character, but they are not really a good gameplay tactic. (I do like the assassin mercenary, who is a good buy imho).

Re: Improve assassins
 

I still don't get why an unequipped Abysian assassin may lose against a normal indie commander. It happened to me several times... now, I know that you should equip them and that the open-ended dices can give very strange results; still, one unit trained to kill one-on-one IMHO should beat without problems one indie which task is to lead units...

Re: Improve assassins
 

An indy commander could be someone who rose through the ranks and has first-hand combat experience, an aristocrat whose family bought the best weapon training their money could buy, the product of a natural martial society, and so on.

Re: Improve assassins
 

Still the other is trained to kill exactly this kind of targets (nobles, leaders) in 1 on 1 assassinations ;) he doesn't have leadership nor other capabilities - all of his purpose in life is focused on this. :)

Re: Improve assassins
 

And he should not fight him in a fair duel, but stab him when he is unaware.
Hmm, what brings me to another idea - give the attacked commander 50 fatigue on the start of the battle to represent that.
Maybe with mod #onebattlespell on the assassin with a spell with 100 precision that deals 50 fatigue damage.

Re: Improve assassins
 

There is a magic site that provides recruitable assassins.

Re: Improve assassins
 

I don't think assassinations should be viewed too realistically. Otherwise you'd need to start asking questions like why the assassin doesn't just put poison in the target's food, or push a stone off a parapet onto his head, or why he's never equipped differently because he could be in disguise, or why he shouldn't sometimes have his assassination aborted simply because he didn't have an opportunity to get to the target.

Dom3's assassination mechanic is a gameplay representation, not a reality simulator - it could have as easily been abstracted to a percentage chance like the way it is done in the Total War series, or just a success/fail message like Mind Hunts. The bottom line is that it works for gameplay: we all know what happens and how we can influence the outcome, and it looks nice.

Re: Improve assassins
 

Agema, we all know that ;) We're just discussing bout how some of us would like the assassins to be slightly more cost effective :) Nobody is thinking about full-reality. It's just balancing (and coolness :cool: ) of a kind of units like it has been discussed before about spears, elephants, archers and spells :o

Re: Improve assassins
 

That didn't seem clear to me with comments like the assassin just stabbing the target in the back or why the target could fight back adequately, but okay, accepted. :P

Re: Improve assassins
 

(in case I sounded harsh I'm sorry, it's just my pitiful english :o)

Re: Improve assassins
 

If Assassins were improved maybe we'd actually stop seeing ye olde mage spam mindlessly technique. I don't even know why non-mage/priest national commanders are in the game.

Re: Improve assassins
 

High leadership? ;)

(Long time no see mr KissBlade, or it's just me? :happy:)

Re: Improve assassins
 

Heyas =D yah long time no see.

Re: Improve assassins
 

It'd be nice if commanders could give bonuses to their troops, also, along with improved assassins. That way, you might just recruit a commander that gave everybody under her command stealth 0, or swamp survival, or a bonus to fighting undead.

As it is, I'm fond of making commanders that self-summon their own types of troops, which may take that Nation in entirely different directions, without the benefit of magic.

Re: Improve assassins
 

I like that idea, HoneyBadger. As well as swamp survival etc., it could be as simple as commanders who give +1 Att/Def/Mor to units under their command - why shouldn't a brilliant, trained general be able to get more from his troops than a basic one?

It would have to be a bit limited though - I don't think commanders granting stealth to their troops is entirely fair when you could equip that commander with 10 elephants. It might be best for rare indies, the odd national recruitable or summoned commander, national heroes, and maybe the odd Pretender.

Re: Improve assassins
 

I like that too. I've always found quite strange that you have those high-trained commanders and you'll so rarely recruit them as your top-mages have really enough leadership. It would be nice and also thematic and logical if commanders, who skipped the magic training for the training of strategy, tactics and warfare, can give small bonuses to the units.
Imagine even nations having maybe mediocre mages but excellent commanders able to give normal units the equivalent of one/two minor blesses, or indies able to train them to move at full speed in their woods. That would be a whole new level of strategy :)

Re: Improve assassins
 

Personally I think most of the idea's in here are nice, more realistic than it's now.. but apart from sombre's starting idea I think most won't be that easily implemented...

so I'd just go for that one.. make assassins start first :D

Re: Improve assassins
 

Damn Aezeal, you awakened us from our nice daydreams :D You're right of course - we were slightly off topic too, so yep, assassins going first would sound reasonable :)

Re: Improve assassins
 

Assassins going first is insane! It sounds good on paper, but think about it from a late-game perspective for a minute. If you were assured of attacking first, you could basically assure that your assassinations would always work. Assassins can absolutely not go first IMO.

Re: Improve assassins
 

Hmm, what do you mean by always work?
Work against mages or against thughs?
What would you give him?

Re: Improve assassins
 

The assassins may work against their targets, but when they get caught by a patrolling army on their assassination turn, with their orders set for assassination, they usually die. All you need is one earth mage in your patrolling army set to petrify. The assassin won't go first in the discovery battle.

I suppose you could stick Virtue on some high-HP assassin, and it might be more difficult to kill it. But that's going to a lot of effort to kill one commander every 2 months.

I'd object to remote assassinations (Disease Demons etc) getting the first move in though, since that's a totally different situation.

Re: Improve assassins
 

@ Ironhawk: Late game? The first would work. Then all the important commanders would have serious bodyguards. ;) Hey, actually it's already this way :D