Re: New patch soon?
 

They're supposed to make it stronger? Who says? I doubt KO has expressed that.

Re: New patch soon?
 

Actually, he stated specifically that the summons introduced in the last patch were more for flavor than anything, but that those that are to come, will have a much greater impact on the nation's viability.

If I had even the foggiest clue which thread that was from, I'd link it, but I'm totally at a loss to find it.....

I lied - http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showp...8&postcount=36

Re: New patch soon?
 

If Jomon are the ofthe new patch, I'd love to see a version of them in the middle age, where magic and summons would be more common.

Re: New patch soon?
 

MA Jomon = Shinuyama. And Shinuyama is pretty nifty, IMO.

-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

It's not really the same though, is it, between the Jomon and the Shinuyama? The troops are completely different, and for the most part the summons are too. True you have access to the same summons, but Jomon have trouble summoning Oni and the Shinuyama can summon them quite easily.

I guess I should say that it would be cool to have a Human Centric or a Tengui centric side to counter balance the Shinuyama or the Oni, much like the Lanka seem to be a blood parallel of the Kailasa.

Re: New patch soon?
 

I see, then. Yes, it would be cool, particularly the Tengui-centric idea. I like your idea w/rt paralleling Lanka (or Vanheim/Helheim).

-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

But I do have to agree with your earlier statement Shinuyama are nifty.
Now, the rumors is that the next patch will add some summons to the Jomon that will add to their overall power. Will any of the general troops of the Jomon be changed or is it just things are being added?

Re: New patch soon?
 

Just like they have improved the attributes of ulmish black plates, some small tweaks can also help a nation a lot. There are many unique stuffs in the Japanese armory. I guess the alike tricks work for them as well.

I am also more for a parallel race. Assigning those amphibian units different equipments and they can form the bulk of a brand new force to give LA Rlyeh another competitor. Or maybe let us enlist them via special sites? At least in Chinese tales those shrimps and crabs minions are not very competitive warriors, that's part of the reason why I doubt they will truly help improving Jomon. Making them national units seems to be more reasonable for me.

Re: New patch soon?
 

You actually can already recruit kappas from certain poptypes--I don't know if there's a site that lets you recruit them too (like Shamblers), but definitely you will sometimes come across a province that lets you recruit kappas.

-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

I doubt adding summons will severly effect a nations power, better change the recruitables a bit since that is the problem usually.

Re: New patch soon?
 

Could you please give us some more details about these monsters in mythology ? It looks interesting.

Re: New patch soon?
 

Re: New patch soon?
 

<a href="http://www.ycool.com/photo.php?uid=1001092&paid=1272149&id=27417955"><i mg src="http://node2.foto.ycstatic.com/200901/04/3/27417955.jpg" border="0" /></a>

Re: New patch soon?
 

Summons can affect a nation's power mainly by adding magic diversity or thug chassises, which are mid- or late-game considerations. The only summons I know of that affects early-ish game power is Umbrals and Magma Children for Agartha. Which are awesome, BTW.

-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

Unfortunately Umbrals are made mid-game at best in CBM :(

Re: New patch soon?
 

Personally I think there are too many summons.
Dont get me wrong. I LOVE playing with them. But it seems like 90% of the national spells are summons. Summons are probably easier and more fun to come up with but it seems as if some very thematic spells fitting each nation could be scattered into other areas of magic.

Re: New patch soon?
 

:) I play vanilla. Well, plus some random houserules to boost boring units (vampires are ethereal, for instance--which makes vampire attack events really fun ;) ).

-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

Yeah, level 7 iirc with CBM - which I think is one level too high really judging agartha on its merits.

But I agree with you max on magma children.

Re: New patch soon?
 

You took it from my mouth ;)

Re: New patch soon?
 

Well, actually I do not think they could be called "monsters". They are more like regular soldiers of the Sea Palace in Chinese tales, and are always beaten easily by heroes like flies though in great number. Their roles are so minor that I can hardly recall any detail description of them...
In Chinese speech, there is even a phase about "shrimp soldiers and crab generals" to imply soldiers of poor quality, just because they always mean nothing for the Chinese heroes in mythology.

Anyway, the photo posted by eastsnow is an interesting image. I am also looking forward to KO's work.

Re: New patch soon?
 

I would agree. It's spells like Inner Furnace, Dreams of Ry'leh, and Celestial Chastisement that I would would much rather see for other nations. Its better to have a nitch battle spell then a nitch summon in my opinion.

Re: New patch soon?
 

They probably are harder to come up with. The summons fits in with Kristoffers day job and easily flows over. Plus summons appear to be easier to mod so Im guessing the same is true for writing them into the game.

Conjuration has most. Enchantment and Blood have their fair share. But wouldnt it be great for trading in-game if a Construction "spell" gave Ulm the ability to make special armor?
It seems that some nations might concentrate on researching Aleration (defense?) and another on Evocation (offense?). And I always thought of Arcos as being Thaumaturgy.

Re: New patch soon?
 

*cough* Lanka! *cough*

Lanka's summons can completely replace their national troops, and you don't pay upkeep for most of them. Starting with Rakshasa Warriors at Blood-4 (!), Lanka doesn't need to recruit soldiers for anything except patrolling duty ever again....

Re: New patch soon?
 

This is valuable information! Thanks.

-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

I know this would still be a summon, technically, but you could have a spell which allows a master smith to forge himself armor (magic suit of armor like the Green Knight, or whatever) by doing something like Banquet for the Dead: casting the spell kills the caster, but you get another unit in exchange. Maybe the new form has no hand slots but built in lifedrain weapons and Prot 20, or something.

-Max

Re: New patch soon?
 

Modding new spells is actually a lot easier then modding new creatures. All of the graphics that you will ever use are already in the game and can be accessed by identifying it by number. The effects are also easy to manipulate once you've gotten hold of a detailed magic modding spreadsheet. Also, there are far fewer stats to adjust.

The spell concepts aren't that hard to come up with once you use a bit of imagination. Its also really easy to reuse existing effects without generating too much overlap. Spite the fact that there are three regular spells that grant quickness, Celestial Music, the Bandar Log national spell, does the same thing and yet is unlike all of them. Why? Because several of the parameters have been changed. It hits the entire battlefield, it only effects magic beings, it needs astral magic rather then water magic, and is researched under enchantment rather then alteration.

Besides, even the summoning spells could use some more variety. Most of them are the same. You cast the spell and a unit appears in the province where you cast the spell. More of the spells could be remote casting spells or assassination spells or battlefield summons in my opinion.

For example. The Simargl is a national summon for Bogarus. This nation has a huge amount of national summons. There is almost no reason for the shear number of the normal summons they have. The simargl, in my opinion, is a niche summon that mainly assists in patrolling provinces. It would have been reasonable in my opinion to make it an assassination spell and restrict it so that you can't target enemy provinces (in the way site searching spells can't target provinces you don't control). Then make the attacking unit just tough enough to take out a scout and not much else. Now you've changed the dynamic of Bogarus so it actually plays differently.

Re: New patch soon?
 

So you've used fx numbers, 'flysprites' etc for spells and it's worked as anticipated?

I admit I haven't tried it in a while and it might have been fixed since, but the last time I did we didn't have the fx numbers - the modding manual pointed to flysprites used for weapons incorrectly and of course, those didn't work.

Re: New patch soon?
 

I've played with the sprites before and they worked out fine for what I was doing. Though I admit that was a little while back. They may not be cataloged, but a little play testing will help you locate the ones you want easily. Just know that sprites are grouped together into similar effects with different coloring. Use a battle where you used the spell and just reload it after each adjustment as the sprites will change accordingly. Its not as bad as creating a unit graphic one pixel at a time in my opinion.

I would imagine that, for the developers, the creation of new battlefield spells would be easier then making new summons. Assuming they've documented their work in the slightest.

Re: New patch soon?
 

So you just tried random numbers until you got something for the #flightspr? I believe even the range of allowable numbers was only revealed recently.

#Explspr has been semi-documented all along.

I couldn't remember the names for them and didn't have my mod manual at work.

Re: New patch soon?
 

Wink.. besides.. rebirth still works = )

Re: New patch soon?
 

Thread necromancy :D

Re: New patch soon?
 

And that definitively shows that I'm not a Chinese hero, as I'm having huge problems with even just one shrimp soldier!! :o

(Taken by my gf at Munchen during new year's holidays :D)

Fortunately, as it shows, I HandOfDeathed its face and saved the day :cool:

Re: New patch soon?
 

Too bad Hand of Death is the left hand :D

Re: New patch soon?
 

Nice spot :p

Re: New patch soon?
 

Hey, I want the patch it's got my much needed new terrain commands in it.

give it please :D

Re: New patch soon?
 

Those new terrain commands won't do you much good unless instructions on how to use them are added to the mapmaking manual, which is not happening before tomorrow at the earliest. So patience.

Re: New patch soon?
 

Sounds very kool ! :)

Re: New patch soon?
 

Another really nifty thing for the patch, for me at least, would be if we could tell how much longer a dome/astral window will last when we are the one that cast it. It's nice to know that it's there, but if you don't write down somewhere what turn it's supposed to end, it's very easy to forget.

Re: New patch soon?
 

Relief of Conch Soldier & Crab General found in a Chinese website, There is a turtle warrior wielding two falchions:D

http://hiphotos.baidu.com/%C7%E5%C1%...fe5dd3bda.jpeg

http://hiphotos.baidu.com/%C7%E5%C1%...fe5dd3bde.jpeg

Re: New patch soon?
 

haha, those are very nice

Re: New patch soon?
 

Rise thread! Rise from the grave!


Sorry for the necromancy but I have a question. I can't seem to find any of the summons, my Dom3 is the correct version(3.23b) But I can't figure where the summons for those crab general and shrimp soldiers are at :mad: Little point in the right direction for me, anyone?

Re: New patch soon?
 

Build an underwater fort and hit the recruit button.

Re: New patch soon?
 

Oh, and make sure you're playing Jomon of course :D

Re: New patch soon?
 

They do seem like they would be summons though, it's true. Still it makes Jomon more interesting with them being recruits.

Re: New patch soon?
 

with witch unit do you build a temple under water, with jonon ?

Re: New patch soon?
 

Any priest will do, the trouble is getting one underwater. Rings of Water Breathing or Shambler Skin Armors are just 5 water gems.

A mage-priest is best, so that you can also build a lab to recruit mages. That'd probably be a Monk of the Fivefold Path.