Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Just because there are other insane games out there with 20+ provs per players doesn't make it fun or a good idea. As for supporting roles with less provinces, that's just slightly less micromanagement with almost none of the fun.

As for coming to decision, feel free to start without me if you've got enough players, the settings just scare me as it stands.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I'll see if I can be a bit more precise in my description. Generally when I think of tactics, I think short term, battlefield movements, positioning,etc, strategy or strategic, generally implies longer term, campaign planning, sort of stuff. And this will be longer term compared to our previous game.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Well, I think with a decision from QM and Ironhawk on if they will play, we could get the ball rolling. I've asked Micah to play, but he seems reluctant, though interested.

Personally, I think if we could get Micah into the game, it would make a much better game.

Oh, and on the micromanagement thing, I just meant that EA Pan is a beast of micromanagement. I didn't mean anything about the game settings. (Freespawn Maenads and all).

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

What else scares you about the settings?

The vets should have an definate advantage with easy research and extended play (past turn 20). It was your own suggestion.

You guys have first nation choice, you may choose the nations generally banned in other games (such as Hinnom).

I shall keep the noob team as green as possible. You've got veto power to boot.

What else do you want? Come now. Will you not indulge me this time around? (as I have done last game), do it for your vet team, avenge your loss.

More prov doesn't necesarilly equal less fun, every player has their own preferences. It also means more income to support larger armies, and diversity of non-nation recruitment. 15 vs 20 is no big difference.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

You just put me into noob team on the list on 1st page. Fun as that might be, I dont think I'd qualify. ;)

Any room in the more experienced end?

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I wouldn't count namad as a noob really. I don't know why he would want to be counted as one either. For me noob is someone with 2-3 MP games max. After that you are a normal player, not experienced, but normal. Vet would be a player with some games won or at least plenty of them played.

Anyway, count me as alternate, not main player. I am not sure if I have enough time to join next game [even though I'd really want to take part in it].

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Yeah, I can set up a forum for the vets if you guys like. A forum on the already-existing one would be much easier, but with the unfortunate side effect of me not being able to set it so I can't see what you all are saying :P If you trust me not to look I'd prefer to do that, otherwise I will go ahead and make you your own forum. That said I probably wouldn't trust me. Don't mind me, just trying to avoid a little work.

How many more players would it take to bring the ratio down to 15 provinces a player? Would it be an acceptable solution to reduce the province count that way as opposed to playing on a new map entirely?


Namad: I just logged out of myself to double triple quadruple check, and there is definitely no way a non-user can see the hidden forum. There are four forums on the site, and only members who are registered and given the proper permissions have access. Believe me I made sure before letting septimius give out the address publically.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Perhaps I should rephrase, the setting don't scare me in the sense of 'impossible to win' so much as 'a nightmare to win (and maybe even to lose)'.

I realize you bent for the vet team last time, but the difference is with the small game settings the game was over very fast whether you liked it or not. With these settings, if you don't like them, you are stuck with them a very long time.

It's interesting you bring up non-national armies though, that's probably one of the biggest reasons I dislike giant games. After playing a lot of dominions, the non-national stuff gets extremely boring and familiar compared to the national (since the non national pops up every singe game).

Really though, as much as I would like more of a compromise map, I'm not trying to force anything, just saying I think I would regret joining as things stand. I'm sure there are other more flexible players to choose from.

As for more players vs small map, that would be better than huge map and few players, but I'm not sure it really solves the issue.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

i just wanted to join a cool sounding team game

i figured i might not qualify for either team, which seems to be the case... maybe what lingchih suggested would work? playing 5-9 or something and deeming the noob team too good? I'm definitely not "green" at all...


if you made it 5-20 and the 20players were using like pd50 and not scripting their mages or formations nor focusing on maximizing research the 20would still lose but you know... your probably right though ... maybe leaving me as a standby would be a good solution and only add me to one of the teams if your absolutely desperate to fill the ranks? maybe even then it might be a bad idea

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Ironhawk brought up a good point, as this is something of a duel, there is no law that says you must grab every indie province, make your realm as large or small as you want, most players will be concentrating on those provinces between themselves and the enemy. Alas, it is your decision.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Whoops sorry about that atul, it is corrected.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I've moved you into the alternate side of the vets team. If they want you or need your in.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Ok, I talked it over with QM for a while trying to find some kind of compromise and this is what I came up with. We play on Orania, the smaller of the two maps, with 5 vets (ling, atul, demon, qm, iron) and 9 noobs. I say 9 noobs here only to give more provs/player overall which is something that sept would like to see, not because I'm worried about numbers. Dont think anyone really minds 10, if that would be preferable. Anyway, that works out to something like 17 provs/player - seems a fair difference b/w qm and sept.

What do you think?

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I like the Orania map, and random starts please. Make it more of a challange, though perhaps a NAP for maybe 6-12 turn. In case opposing players end up starting on each others doorstep. 9 vs 5 looks good, we'll just need a couple more players. Unless some of the alts join the noob side.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I don't really care what the settings are in terms of balance, but a high number of provs or provs/player makes for a lot of micro in the mid/endgame, which leads to longer turns and more players dropping or staleing. 20 per player is manageable however and the point about this being like a duel where there's no diplomacy and it's better to steal land from your enemy is a pretty good one. I'd be fine with either the default settings proposed in the OP or with Iron's compromise.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Sounds good to me Ironhawk. A nice compromise I think.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

So lingchih, I see you joined the noob forum. Still waiting to see whether I'm creating a new forum or just adding an extra forum onto the forum for team noob.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Sorry, that was an accident. It really was.

Delete me please

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

OK, I've created a vets forum, but I'm not sure if we will use it, since it looks rather insecure to me. But it's there, and as I learn more about the security settings maybe I will feel confident about using it.

If so, I'll pm all the vets.

OK, I've figured out how to make it secure. I've set it up so only I can add new users. We should be good to go now.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Glad to hear that's all sorted out. Now the teams just need to get ready!

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

OK, here is the url for the vets:

http://teamvet.forumotion.net/index.htm

Just register for the forum. It will send me an email asking if I want to allow you to enter the forum. When I confirm, you will be in.

I guess I should add a #6 to my sig. For serious post. This would be a #6.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I believe the Team Vet is final. Just need to get confirmation from you guys.

PM me vets. I need to get a final list together. Thanks.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Good job in getting the vet forum up and running. I've added the link to the main post.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I wouldn't do random starts. Too risky... I need control of placement to ensure team members end up near each other.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

You may have come up with a reasonable compromise, though we are a couple short on the noob side, even moving namad over and bringing grudgebringer in. You know how I like to have alternates especially for the larger team. I'll mull it over and while I give the map another look to see if it is something I can work with, whilst we see if we can get a player or two more.

As the noobs would be understrength, I may decide to nullify the vets first choice option (except for Lingchih) to compensate. We do need players with a decent attention span though, yes there may be some MM, that is an issue for the developers to take up, it is part and parcel of the game. You take the good with the bad.

I would like to keep the ratios straight if possible, though I prefer the 8 vs 4. Perhaps our vets will consider a 7 vs 5. No more players would be needed (without first choice of course).

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

it's only been 3days since this thread was created if you give it time maybe you can recruit a bunch of really new players?

also if the vet team would be willing to have me play on their team i think it would defeat the purpose of the game to have me play on the noob team? I really wanted to play because the premise of the game sounds so cool but if me playing weakens that premise it'd be best for me not too... although i do feel like i would do a lot worse if the irc guys just ignored me for a bit ;)

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Disregard that 7:5 proposal, it would be too lopsided.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

10:5 on Orania seems fairest to me. That keeps the 2 to 1 odds, and the provs per player are 17.2 if you only count land, or 18.6 if you include water.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Namad has a point, there is nothing stopping us from going for the larger 16:8 on the larger map provided enough players sign up. Who knows.

It is important for all the vets to think of this series of games as a public service for new players 'pro bonum publicum'
. As vets, you have both a duty and responsiblity to educate fresh young noob minds and put your personal preferences behind you, while at the same time not seeking to shield them inordinately from the harsh realities of the game.

I thank all the vets who have participated or will participate in the future. Keeping this in mind, I charge you all to seek out fellow vets and noobs alike, and urge them to join, stressing the selflessness and nobility of our cause.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Heh, noble thoughts.

But, in this particular case, I think you're misinterpreting personal preference and hard-earned experience. One of the things that people learn "through the heel" as us Finns say is that too big maps aren't fun on the long term. People get easily overwhelmed by the size of their empires. I know, having had more than 100 provinces in one game. It isn't a preference or weakness of mind, it's something that happens when you cross some threshold.

Rules of thumb are good to have: 15 provs per player -> big game; less than 10 -> crowded. 20 per player is huger than Cartman's behind. Just be warned.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I'd also point out that I'd happily perform this 'public service' in two 4vs8 small sized map games than a crazy 16vs8 giant map game, both of which serve the same number of newbs. And it would probably be a more useful service anyway, on that big of a map many players might not even end up fighting until it was already at the point of dropping tarts on their heads (experiencing that is all well and good but it hardly gives you a good idea how to play the majority of the game).

But philosophical differences aside, I think Ironhawk's compromise is a good one. If we end up going with that I'd tentatively claim Oceania.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

do not let noobs determine size of map :p

Orania is about the maximum size for non insane people.

9 vs 5 would be good as two of the nubs at least are fairly experienced. But 10 would be more challenging :D

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

In my experience of hosting games, you get most of your players in the first couple of days. If you wait longer than that, you start losing players who have already signed up. If you need to bolster the noob team numbers, then rather than waiting, you should just PM people you know or have played with them and aske them personally to join.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Just to chime in: Team games do allow substantially larger maps since no one player is having to manage everything. I generally find 50 provinces about the threshold of "fun" for me. Assuming the game would end if the vets get a bit more than half the map that would give 50 provs * 4 players / 50% of the map = 400 provs maximum. Of course if you disagree with the 50 prov number it changes things, but the point is team games cut down the amount of MM each player has to do by a lot. I'm also not playing this round, so I don't get a vote. =)

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Hmm, I wouldn't say that it's no fun (unless you play I will just do what is asked forge whore). You wouldn't participate in the battles as much which maybe defeats the purpose of playing against the vets. On the other hand it doesn't mean that you'd never see any action just that it's less and with spies you can always play fly on the wall. :)
And if you'd use your resources to help teamplayers I'd say for the later game it would be much less micro because someone else would have to worry about managing that which you created.
I wouldn't mind I don't think I can swallow a complete intense game at the moment but I wouldn't want to miss the chance of playing against the vets.

@Septimius Severus

Hmm, maybe I'm not green enough (2 finished games, 1 at turn 60) so if you don't think I should play or could reliably get a supportive position just kick me out. :D

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I agree with Micah and illuminated one. Heh. :) Though I'd wish you would join. I wouldn't mind having 8 the best in the game, actually, that was the idea.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Generally, I agree, unless some games happen to let out when your's is starting up. So get those invites going out. Heh. :)

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I think I'm still green enough, you can add me to the noob side if you're still looking for players. The last game was a fun thing to check every day or so, and I did indeed learn some tactics both obvious and less obvious from the last one. Thanks.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

So we are good to go now, right? With darloth signed up to noobs we can pull GrudgeBringer off the alts list and we are up to 9.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Let's get it started! I'm going on vacation in May, and I would like to have some turns done by then.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Welcome back darloth.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Apparently there is a shortage of green noobs theses days. GrudgBringer is sort of noobish, not totally green I beleive.
Keep in mind I want at least 1 alternate on board for each team, I don't want to have to go hunting for them later on.

In any case, we will do one of these three, whichever comes first. Let us all agree.

1. We stick to the original design 8 vs 4, Grudgebringer remains an alternate and the vets drop 1 (decide amongst yourself who is the least experienced, and we'll move him to alternate status).

2. I'll agree to Ironhawk's compromise, 9vs5, provided we have enough noobs and an alternate(s), however, I will not give vets first choice of nations in this scenario.

3. We do 10vs5, keeping the ratio's straight, the vets retain first choice.

Seems we need a couple of more noobs for options 2 and 3, so vets if you want to begin now, we do option 1, otherwise lets send out those invites for noobs. Fair enough? I must protect the interests of the noobs here.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I think the best solution for now would be to have grudgebringer come in and take a noob slot. He doesn't seem to be following the thread though so he may need some prompting.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Grudgebringer prefers to remain as an alternate right now. He's in 4 games right now. If the vets want to begin at once, option 1 is the way to go. (Note: I chose the team size for a reason, it is easier for me to place players, I can place the vets in the cardinal directions with exactly two noobs in opposition.)

Personally being in more than 2 or 3, is pushing it, but it depends on your available time and the settings of the game.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I've played one MA MP game to completion and am in the middle of one LA MP game now. I'm pretty green, got another noob slot?

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Sure, we can never have enough fresh green noobs. Tell your friends. Well, it won't be long now.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

I'd like a spot on the Noobs team, if'n ya please.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

Sounds like we are good to go then.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

CBM 1.4.1 C,correct? I'm about to make a new Mysteria pretender.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets II: Mysteria's Revenge. EA, CBM, Sign Up and Discussion.
 

If you need noobs, I could try to get my fourth game running (hopefully will have time to manage all of them)