Re: New game - The Art of War, Random nations, no diplomacy
 

You're in Ossa, and now this game is officially closed!

So far we've established Orania map, CBM 1.5, and no changing of nations.

One last thing, water nation in or out?
If we take water nation we will have to have either two or none, since I feel only one water nation is a huge advantage.

Oh, almost forgot, victory con.
How about owning something like 7 or so capitals out of 16?

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

What about 8 capitals for an even 50% conquest or 9 for the majority?

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

One thing to bear in mind, on the assumption that a player is dead or next to it when their capital falls (not absolutely true, but not far off). It will be reasonably clear who killed who from the VP graph. If people want to avoid this, VPs would not be necessary, it would merely require a player to claim victory in the file - he'll know when he has made it.

With regard to water nations, they might be a good idea. The ease with which various nations can get underwater varies enormously - anyone with easy access to undead or the likes of Agartha with national amphib units can get in quickly, whereas others might not be able to manage it until much later, which could be unbalancing as they'll access all the gold and gems very quickly.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

I don't think it is a real problem that we know who killed who. There is no diplomacy, but there is common sense, to gang on someone who has like 6 VPs already. Hidden VPs are really really bad idea, especially in no diplo game.

I'd suggest around 40% of VPs, so 7 or 8 out of 16.

Maybe we could use one other tweak to nation selection? Make it random, but with an option to reroll [24h to get that], so if you don't like a nation you can request a roll out of other unassigned ones [you wouldn't know which ones are those] and that pick would be final. That would keep it all random and eliminate the need to play unliked/sucky nation [imagine getting Ulm in no-trade game].

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

I'm good either way on either having victory points or not.
Personally I think it would be more interesting without victory points, and much easier to find a winner and would force a greater use of spying.

However, it would make the victory much easier for the stronger player to achieve, and could enable an underdog nation like Eriu to steal the win, thrust me, I've been there.

Personally I find my games with strong nations like Mictlan much harder to handle, but that with diplomacy and that changes a lot...
Anyway,

Zeldor,
I'm assuming what you mean is this,
There are 16 of us, each one gets assigned with a nation. That leaves 6 unassigned nation left (without Ashdod). If one want a reroll than, he would be given one of the unassigned nation.
Something like that right?

I think it would be best to have two water nation on this map, as Agema suggested it makes a big difference with Agartha for eg.
Personally It I'd like to get Agartha or Oceania myself


Also, no need to rush victory conditions yet, we have time until we design pretender to choose, so we'll wait for more votes on that.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Executor:

Yeah, exactly like that.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Could we our nations soon then? I really want to have some time to test stuff out, especially with the new CBM.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

If this are your final settings, should I proceed to assigning the nations?

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Yeah, go ahead and assign nations please. Note that we must have two water nation.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Ok, waiting for PM with my nation then :)

I guess you just start a game with random nations, see what came and assign to people in order they joined?

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

One thing about Orania, if you are using VP conditions, you'll have to take the built-in VPs out of the map file, or else they will be there in addition to capitals.

Personally I'm in favor of Glory of the Gods multiplayer and two water nations. Mainly because I'm in another game where we're playing Oriana and I want a change, but also because Oriana's 259 land provs among 14 land players, although not unreasonable, is on the high end.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Should water naions be unrepickable then? Or, perhabs, they could be repicked only if any other person desires to repick his land nation? In this case person who desires to get another nation has a good chance to end up with water one.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Yes, WingedDog will assign the nation in the order people joined, which mean I'll probably end up with Man and they're even weaker in CBM. :)

Ok, I'm not sure about repicking water nations, let's just assign the nations for now and see ho it goes.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

There are 3 water nations, so repicking one water would mean getting one of other 2 water ones, I think.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Executor:

Random is random :)

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

I guess that would be OK.

EDIT: If we end up short with water nation, than one player should be randomly chosen to be switched as a random water nation, the same if we get all 3 water nation, on pler should be randomly chosen and made a land nation.
Does this sound OK?

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

The deed is done. Expect PMs with your picks in the near future.
*DRUM ROLL*

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

You will feel the pain of PM system on that forums :)

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Zeldor
Yes, I know what you mean, and I'm ready for that. :)

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

I've sent PM with nation pick to every player. If for some reasons you didn't get it - contact me.

Hmm, interesting nation.
Well I have a very ludacris experiment in mind.

EDIT:
So everybody's been assigned with a nation. I suggest you start testing out stuff and designing your pretender now.

Also, we haven't settled the number of capitals required for victory, I need your votes folks.

And again, Orania or Glory of the Gods?
Orania is perhaps a lil big for us 14 land nation is close to 19 provinces each, but it a very nice map, and it's wraparound.
I dislike Glory of The Gods since position easily determines the course of game with all those wastelands on that map, and there are some position from which you can not possibly win.
Vote.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

For VPs- 50% sounds good to me.

For map- I'm not sure why, but I really dislike Orania. I think its something to do with the color scheme, not to mention the fact that wraparound maps make my brain hurt. Glory for me.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Isn't there a remade Glory of the Gods for multiplayer?

Orania looks really bad for MP, unbalanced starts, uber magic sites at VPs...

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Think we should only go for 'Glory of the Gods' if there are three water nations, or two water nations with all the South East seas gettings tagged as no start. As a water nation getting the entire Western sea to themselves is a bit overpowering to say the least.

I am currently in a game with the Orania map, and think Zeldor is right in saying it certainly has some issues with balance, and is probably not such a good map for MP games.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Scary thing is that any of your neighbours may be played by Baalz.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Thanks for the admin work, WingedDog!

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Yeah I don't think Orania is best....

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Ah, the joys of not being ganged up on immediately. I think I'm gonna enjoy this....and probably get eliminated in the first year. ;)

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Glory of the Gods looks very nice. I'm up for it.

Also any chance in a slight boost in gems? say to 45? A few more gems never hurt no one...much.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

That makes two of us.:)

Ok, so we're changing to Glory of the Gods map, and I too am for magic site 45.
I'll PM WingedDog to start placing start positions on the map, the two little ponds on the east will be marked as non-start.
And I guess it seems we're on 8 for victory. And we won't be using hidden victory points.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

We will be using "Glory of the Gods Multiplayer v317" that is on llamaserver?

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Yes we will be using the modded v317 GotG.
It doesn't have fixed starting positions doe.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Could I request a (slightly) late start? It's a holiday weekend in Canada, and I may not be back at the computer until Monday evening.

This is great concept for a game. Prepare for war!

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Think it's pretty sensible to allow the weekend for everyone to work out a Pretender build. Since with random nations there's a good chance some players have ended up with nations they have no experience with, and it's only Baalz who can always come up with a new strategy for a nation inside of 20 minutes :)

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

I had my pretender ready after 8 minutes!

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

:) Some nations do offer up some no brainers. Pangaea and a Gorgon is one prime candidate.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Nah, I don't like the Gorgon... Oracle was always my favorite.
I was testing out the nation in MA to remind myself a bit what out there so I had a pretender ready when I got my nation actually. :)
Sure, we can delay the start, it takes a lot of time to make a proper pretender especially since you have to think even more in advance because of no diplomacy.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Heh, sure makes magic diversity more important with no trading at all. :)

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Well, thanks everybody for all the kind words I got in PMs, my pleasure.
I'll start assigning starting locations then, but I still need info about VP's. Do we need them? Are they in the capitals? I only ask becouse capital VP's mean 'target locked' for bless or pretender rushes without scouting.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

I'm strongly against having capitals marked with VP's for the exact reason you state. I don't see what's wrong with having victory conditions as half capitals (or half+1 to force two superpowers to fight) with all claims going to the non-playing admin.

The graphs are on (AFAIK) so the chances of a sneak victory are very slim. And besides, if you see one nation streaking away on the province front, but then do nothing about stopping them, then you can't complain afterwards with statements like....

"I didn't know XXX was so close to victory. I didn't know they had so many capitals. If I did I would have tried to stop them."

Scouts and good old common sense are your friends here I feel.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Alright, I have set up the starting locations. I realise not everybody would be happy with them, but it is hard to get a perfect balance with all those large desert areas, deficit of farms and lack of natural borders in the middle of the map, so please don't hit me too hard. :)
I'm ready to start whenever you are, but since Sambo is unavailible till Monday evening there's no much point to be hasty. Besides before creating a game I'd like to be sure everyone is still here and satisfied with his nation, becouse if someone has dropped off I would have to rebalance positions or search for a replacement.

So please, following people:

Trumanator
Isokron
Shuma
Dragar
Agema
TheDemon
Ossa

send me a PM you are in and happy.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Sent PM.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

I'm happy with nation and good to go.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

Alright, everyone but Ossa has contacted me. To be honest he was my prime suspect for dissapearing, and I asked everyone to contact me mostly to see if he would show up. His page displays he visited a forum today so I take it he's unhappy with his pick. If I am wrong, I'm sorry.
The game will be created on llamasever in about 14 hours, Ossa has time to confirm his participation untill that time, if he doesn't - he would be replaced.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Closed
 

I've just set up the game on llamaserver. Here's the link: <a href=http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Art_of_War>Art of War</a>
Please read the <a href=http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=690461&postcount=1>inhouse rules</a> carefuly, especially the penalty part.
Ossa still didn't show up, so shard from now on is replacing him. He's alredy informed about his pick and is satisfied.
Please do not give other people information whether you've upload your pretender or not.
LET'S GET RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREADY TO RRRRRRRRRRRRRUMBLE! :D

Re: New game - The Art of War, Send Pretenders
 

Thank you for setting the game up WingedDog.
Shame about Ossa but better to lose a player before the start than during the game.
So we're all set to go, you all know what to do.

Re: New game - The Art of War, Send Pretenders
 

Sorry, too late. Lost track of this game:(

Re: New game - The Art of War, Send Pretenders
 

Looks like we've got 15 out of 16 pretenders in.
Waiting just for this one last pretender in order to start the game, so whoever it is please send in your pretender,
oh and DON'T say who you are for gods sake!

Re: New game - The Art of War, Send Pretenders
 

Did it get confirmed that we are using the new Glory of the Gods map (v.3.17) for this game?

If so, then here is the link for everybody.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=655130

Re: New game - The Art of War, Send Pretenders
 

Hmm... "funny" starting locations. They were set for every nation or it was random what you get from available starting spots?