Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
 

Much of the early start was due to EA having stronger national troops and weaker indies. Wouldn't think MA had similar problem.

And 50k capitals are insane. Noobs already get double income thanks to their numbers, that advantage would give them quadruple the money. Just organize better and it's going to be a close fight.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
 

Just another outsiders comment :) but doesn't enhancing the noob start locations go against part of the idea of this game?

My understanding is that this game series is between a team of new players against a team of vets, with the noobs obviously hoping to pull off a surprise against their esteemed opponents. But above all else, isn't the idea of this game to help the noobs learn how to compete better in MP games? Either from their own endeavours, or from picking stuff up from the vets. If that is the main aim though, then giving the noobs handouts at the start to compensate their poor expansion technique is defeating the point of the exercise.

Being able to expand well against the Indys is a key part to all MP games, and if you don't learn how to do this properly, then you don't compete in MP games full stop. So IMO there's no point skipping around the issue by plying the noobs with large sacks of gold, since they can't expect to ever have that advantage in any other MP games. So while it may help them in the here and now, it will probably do more harm than good for the noob player overall, since the noobs in question will still keep using bad expansion technique in future games, instead of encouraging them to learn a better technique right now. I think the same also goes for lowering Indy strength.

My two pennies worth, for what it's worth, is that you should keep Indys on at least 5, and the noobs just have to learn to expand better. Since if that is the main problem, then it's best to tackle it head-on rather than trying to compensate for it. And again if my understanding is correct, if the noobs do learn how to expand better because of this game, then it can already be considered a success regardless of the end result :)

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
 

Sept, seriously, you need to let go of your expansion gap fixation. I just finished reading the noob forums from 2 and its clear that you considered the game practically over by turn 10 just from looking at our expansion. Thats just crazy! You are overlooking the fact that on a *team basis* the noobs and vets were 1:1 for lands in that game. And I can tell you quite honestly that if noob organization and tactics had been just slightly better the game could have gone quite differently.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
 

Personally I would just use the same settings as the last game except without the NAP, and changing the vets get to pick all their nations first rule. I guess some of the vets later decided the NAP did help the noobs out, but I'm not completely sure about that.

I think the noobs did do pretty well in the last game. I don't think they need as big a boost as 50,000 population in the capitol to be competetive, definitely. If you want to give a small boost to expansion ability, maybe set indies one lower than normal. Much more than that is probably not necessary, and would most certainly taint any noob victory that came from it. If you really want the theme of large armies you can still go with 125-150% gold and resources, but you should probably stay awsay from team-specific advantages to prevent it from looking biased.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
 

Especially if things had gone slightly better in sauromatia. Hopefully after having been able to look at the vets forum for this game the next noob team will better understand what they need to do to be competetive.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
 

I'm all for going with the same settings in this as in NvV2. The expansion really is something we have to learn. Actually just by following Calahan's comments and testing, I realized that I've been using about 10x too many troops to expand with some of my better nations. If we just accept it as something we need to practice then we will and we'll be better at it next time. So much better to fix a problem within the framework of a system of rules rather than changing the rules.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
 

Its not so much as the NAP helped the noobs rather than it didn't really affect either team. We far enough seperated from the other team that, while we might have skirmished and you guys might have raided, we weren't ready to start full-scale offensives until turn 11.

I think the NAP helped the vets more, had you been allowed to raid us it would have helped stem our team prov advantage. I just think it was overall it was pretty pointless.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
 

Probably one of the biggest effect of the NAP was that I was able to take many provinces near C'tis' capital and tax them at 200% for five turns in a row before he could've take them back. Without a NAP wouldn't have bothered, but don't think it affected things much.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
 

Old settings were just as fine. There were three main problems.
a/ suboptimal Noob placement. Mictlan was right in the middle, and capitals were too close.
b/ Atlantis got the seas uncontested
c/ two players with strong nations ignored the forum.

A nation with the income of two smaller ones is stronger due to having twice the research (very simplified, but still).

BTW, I won't play in this game.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
 

Yeah same setting ares fine, as long as there ain't no stinking NAP.

Why couldn't anyone give the monkeys some lov'n

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
 

on turn 5 50-75% of the income of a nation comes from his capital

1:1 provinces still means 3:2 in income

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
 

Maybe we can get someone else to figure out the settings? ;) Seriously though, noobs have advantage of numbers so cap population should be the same, luck the standard setting, research something reasonable etc... whatever the most common game settings are. Also, are there any vets still messing around in NvV2? Pretty quiet last turn, but it might be the calm before the storm. If everyone's getting sleepy then we can call it quits. Let me know.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
 

BTW, I'm about to start another game as vanheim. Anyone with some tips on early research and pretender build, I'm all ears for any advice you have (please PM... I have a basic strategy laid out based on successes and failures in this past game but for obvious reasons don't want to lay it out here).

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
 

Staling data can be seen from llamaserver:

http://www.llamaserver.net/doAdminAc...ion=showstales

It would appear quitting the game is the thing to do.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
 

Calahan has some good points that I cannot dispute. Good comments by all. The use of a symmetrical map (something we should have used from the start), removal of the vets first choice and sole sea nation priveledges, should definately help the noobs, essentially a return to NvVI. Hopefully, the vets won't be overun as they were in the first game. Though I am still concerned about noob expansion, we will nix the noob pop bonus and lower the multiples to 150.

Stay abreast of the main post for settings and info, recruitment is beginning.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
 

It really is no fun beating up on absent players, so I encourage you all to take advantage of the last turn or two.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

Sign ups are now open. Nation selection will follow.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

Sign me up!

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

if you can let me try again

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

What the heck. I've played the first two. Go ahead and give me a nation.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

i'll play

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

I'm a noob. I've done no MP games and would like to play.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

the last two have been disappointing for me. first game got no fighting. second I loved the fighting but was stopped from expanding really early.

and even though I wont be Skaven, I need to redeem myself somehow in this last game.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

I'm still considering playing, but for now put me down as a vet alt.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

That means Demon will play. Sign him up.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

I take it that means your in. If I get the full compliment we'd still need 1 mod nation so it remains a slight possibility.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

wouldn't it make the most sense to let the 24th nation just be an EA/LA nation???

mod nations are a) not really that important to learn about and b) difficult to gather intelligence and strategies on/for

not really a "teaching" nation eh?

could even make sure it was a nation that hadn't been used before? and... perhaps a nation with no direct parallel in ma? to keep things interesting?

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

yes I'm in
and its not so much that its not a good teaching nation. I just like rats, because I was born in the Year of Rat

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

You heard the man, he likes rats!

Seriously, wouldn't that require the all nations mod? Are you hinting at the possibility of an all nations game? I'd prefer to keep it all MA. Eh, regarding your points about teaching I'd say that is debatable. Once you've played with a vanilla nation, you should be able to play with the mod nations, a sacred is a sacred after all. Just my two 1/2 cents.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

My fellow players, let us go and spread the gospel of noobs vs vets to the whole of the dom3 world. Tell your father, your mother, your sisters and brothers, your grandparents, all of your friends, that if they only join one game this summer, it must be Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution.

My noob brethren, send a message in-game to your allies in other games. Tell them the very fate of Noobdom hangs in the balance and that they must join immediately.

Vets, I charge you to go forth amongst your kin, convince them that if they do not join your cause that Vetkind may well be banished from the world forever, or they themselves relegated to slavery. Vets, I further charge you to seek out even those who are your enemies. Turn the other cheek. Bring them into the fold. If worse comes to worst, they'll make excellent traitors and agents for the Noob cause.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

On the other hand it would open up a lot of nation choice possibilities if we get the full 24. Hmm, what do the rest of you think?

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

It wouldn't necessarily have to be an all-nations game, though using that mod would make it simpler. Anyway, if you end up needing an extra nation I suggest giving it to the noobs and ruling out LA ermor.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

Actually it would have to be an all-eras game because of the way the LlamaServer works (unless someone made a mod nation that just reproduced one of the vanilla nations). Not that playing it as an all-era game is a big overhead.

Skaven are good though.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

so what? use the all nations mod its like a 15kb download and then just let the admin choose which one and only one nation from the other eras is appropriate to include


viola problems solved. 24nations one era (for the most part)



making something include all the eras doesn't mean you can't just use nothing but one era... in single player i just usually leave that mod on even if i am only testing nations from one era... its just convenient

but i doubt we'll get 24players anyway....

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

I didn't quite mean what I said the way you all are reading it, but it doesn't matter, basically I agree with you :P.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

Certainly a possibility if we end up needing an extra nation or two. But I'm also ok with a single well crafted mod nation. No big deal really imo. Hypothetical till we see the recruitment totals anyway.

Here's how I plan to implement nation selection when we are ready. Lavaere, and anyone else feel free to comment if it differs from your ideas.

Say we reach the 18 player threshold (we could do so without the need for any water nations) and decide to begin nation selection.

My idea is to let returning alternates from NvVII (if any) weigh in and grab their nations first. If say there are 3 (2 Noobs and 1 Vet) and they take 3 nations, that leaves us with 17 land nations to choose from.

Both teams then draw up their ordered lists for the remaining nations that must be distributed (in this case 17) in their order of preference. The lists are compared. Noobs get their first choice. Vets then get their first choice (unless it is the same as the Noobs, in which case they get their second) we then go back to the Noobs and continue till all nations are distributed.

One caveat, even though the Vet team may have only say 5 players to pick for, they would still need to produce that ranked list of 17 nations to account for any identical nation choices with the Noobs and to insure that all nations are distributed.

Edit: The nations thus distributed between teams would then need to be assigned to individual team members.

Sounds like it will work. Nice idea guys.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

Hmm, as first Vet to sign up Lingchih, your sorta defacto captain again. If you say TheDemon is in, well I guess I'll just move him into a starting position.

Here's my vet dream team:

Executor
Baalz
Archaeolept
EvilHomer or Gandalf Parker
Jazzepi
Llamabeast
Quantum_Mechani
Lingchih
Ironhawk

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

I don't actually think the Vet team will ever fill up, Sept. I joined because I had been a player in all the games. But I don't think there is much interest in this one.

And, you ignore Micah, who is the best Dom3 player in the world.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

I think the ultimate dream team, for the Vets, would be:

Micah
QM
Baalz
Zeldor
Evilhomer

I often lose to all those guys. Not to discount Ironhawk, or theDemon. They are good too. Ye gods, I could go on.... Lolomo is great and there are so many others.

Arch and Lllama, and Gandalf, are kind of bit players though. No offense.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

Huh, I surely wouldn't call myslef top tier player. Micah is top1 for me too. You also missed Jurri there.

Septimius:
I think you want to do it too big and too fast. I can play if one of my games ends. Or if I get a sub in Faerun. But please, please, do not put Gandalf in vet team.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

Without wishing to offend a single player, the first picks for my dream vets team would be, and in no order what-so-ever

Micah
WraithLord
Calmon

Actually been thinking of starting up a thread to help players identify who the vets are, since many are unaware, or just attribute vet status to those who play/post a lot. Idea would be for people to post(vote) 3 players they consider vets, and once a player gets X votes, they get listed as a vet (and if they consider themselves as one). If X is sufficiently high, say 30-50, then that should go some way to ensuring no one gets on the list by a fluke or by popularity.

But that's a bit O/T for this thread. Sorry for the digression Sept, and best of luck filling up the teams.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

Arch, Llama, Gandalf... I was joking with you. On rereading my earlier post though, that might not have been evident.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

Hey, I will happily play as a noob, myself :)

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

Personally I would love to see amhazair or xietor in one of these games. They don't seem to be much tauted as vets, but they both seem to be very capable players. Baalz is probably the most well-known to noobs because of all his excellent guides, and has a reputation for being marvelously evil (despite his lack of representation in the HoF). I'm aware qm and micah are considered some of the best players in dominions, but they're more more low-key than some of the other good players, so it's harder to tell as an outside observer. Same goes for most of the other high-level players.

Of course, with QM having played two games in this series a few more noobs got an idea of why he is so well-regarded.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

lingchih's a nub

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

prove it Arch

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

I don't think there really exists the need. enjoy your game, everybody.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

Sorry Zeldor, forgot to include you and Micah in that dream team list. I am only asking for 6 vets (which is only 1 more than the previous game) at a minimum to start, and 3 of you guys to be alternates (who likely won't be called upon at all). I've got the patience to wait, hopefully my players do too. If you ask me there's just too many games and too few players to go around.

Btw: I want to thank those vets who have participated thus far:

Ironhawk
Evil Homer
Zeldor
QM
Lingchih
Atul
TheDemon

and in so doing have thus helped enrich the gaming experience of noobs. I hope to see the rest of you participate as you are able. And thanks for all you do (guides, mods, advice, etc). Let's make this last game a success for the community.

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

Could I perhaps join the Noob team? I have no multiplayer experience, having played only single player so far :)

Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Now Recruiting.
 

I'm considering joining the noob team, if it is still possible. Could somebody please explain how are the nations assigned for this game, and which ones are still free?