Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 14/19]
 

Re: Extension requests - I'd personally prefer to have no message informing the players of extensions, or just a basic "game delayed X hours", and trusting rdonj's judgement on when to allow them.

I think the possible problem with saying "game delayed X hours by request of nation Y" is that if a player in this game is in another game(s), and posts on that games thread(s) "Can I please get a 24 hour delay" then it might start becoming obvious which nation that player is in this game if it is announced which nation requested the delay, especially if it happens more than once. If there is no message at all regarding a delay, or just a basic one, then it becomes a lot harder to figure out who is who. And protecting player indentities is key I think to a good RAND game.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 14/19]
 

Yes, "game delayed by X hours" is good and probably better but it will in most cases be obvious which nation requested it anyway. Llamaserver status page always tells the truth and there's no way to override this:)

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 14/19]
 

Good suggestions.
rdonj, would you be willing to grant extensions yourself and update that an XXX hour delay was granted?

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 14/19]
 

Yes, I had that thought as well.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

Good. We are four players shy of starting.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

Just a little addition:
If we place VP's in capitals - they become visible for all the other players, meaning lure for bless or SC rushes. Am I the only one who remembers Carrion Dragon landing in neighbour's capital on turn 2? :)
Let the victory condition be 9 capitals, and person claiming to have them sends his turn-file to rdonj for the check.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

+1

I'm gald someone else pointed this out first this time. I know I've done it the last few games I've signed up for, so wanted to avoid doing it here for fear of sounding repetitive :)

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

WingedDog, Calahan
I think it's a good idea

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

This sounds like a lot of fun, but I may not be experienced enough to play in this as I see a lot of very good players here. If this game is welcome to a somewhat inexperienced player, sign me up. If not, good luck with the game.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 14/19]
 

Oh, didn't see this at the time. Yeah, sure, I'll do it that way when the time comes.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

oooo rand game count me in please.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

What about map? I'd prefer something wraparound, so noone could feel safe.:evil:
Really, people in the corners have an unfair advantage IMO.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

I'd love to play in this, if there are any slots open. Seems like the anonymity makes it somewhat newb friendly, and I'm ready for the step up beyond newb-only games :P

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

WingedDog
When starting locations are random, a bigger advantage is starting with no close neighbours while others start in overcrowded areas. After qwerty I decided to never play without predefined starting locs but in this game I don't mind it. Though generally I'm agree that wraparound map + some work on it would make the game much more balanced and thus interesting for everybody
Luck is a too big factor in this game and when it is possible to reduce its influence a bit, this better be done:).

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

If my copy of the game appears soon, I will gladly play. I will be a complete newbie, so not sure if that is welcome?

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

Yet another suggestion.
We are playing w\o CBM, difficult research, and LA with default magic sites, which means lots of gem-expensive crap with lack of gems. Maybe we should increase magic sites frequency? Not too much, I think 55-65% should be enough.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

I think that 50% is fine for any case. 35% is too little, while 65 is too much, IMO.
50-55% gives everybody a solid chance of finding good sites including sites with mages which I think is good for such game

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

Black Sun Empire
Well, the game is rather complicated. First three or four of my games vs AI were a complete failure, I joined my first MP game only after 2 victories on multiple impossible AIs, and still I had a lot to learn. Now I consider myself sort of experienced player, I have 1 MP victory, but half of the players in this game are better then I am.
So... see for yourself, but if you're totaly unfamiliar with game playing against people could be a total dissapointment. I recomend playing vs AI first, I can guarantee that would be fun (I just remembered my excientment first time I tried crossbreeding :D). Then, when you are able to defeat AIs blindfolded and hads tied - it is a good time to join MP game.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

I just think the difference between playing against an AI and SP is huge.

Currently playing Nief, it has only taken me around 4 hours of game play to be killing them easily. In saying that, I did read a guide from Baalz (sp?) and that helped me a heap of tactics and predator design.
Then again, it was a medium sized map with 6 AI set at the default level.

I don't mind losing quickly, I'm just attempting to join as many games as possible early and learn from the best. If someone better comes along, then let them join, I will be fine either way.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

I agree 65, perhabs, is too much. I was thinking about 55, when I was preparing my suggestion.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

I am not an admin of this game, and personaly I do not mind you joining it if you are willing to play till the end. I just gave you my recomendations, and it is strictly your business to follow them, or not. It is just very common a newbee player joins the game, loses his first battle, gets dissapointed and just disappears.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

If Black Sun ditches the game I know where he lives... abysian style firebombing would ensue

Of course, being a rand game the admin would have to let me know to begin punitive strikes

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

The main problem with new players in ordinary game is that it's a free capital for experienced neighbor. However, with RAND settings this problem seems less critical, at least before vet player discovers that his neighbor makes really strange choices.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

A predator design feature would be awesome :D

My one concern about the new players in this game is that the Indies 9 setting will really put a halt to their expansion, while at the same time I can't see it putting too big a dent in a vet's expansion rate. Then if after 10 turns a vet, who has about 12-15 provinces, comes across a neighbour who has 3-4 provinces (remember graphs are on), it's going to be good bye neighbour, and secret identities won't mean a thing. This will just lead to some major unbalancing, and probably already game deciding, if a vet starts in the middle of a newbie picnic.

I personally think this game will be a bad choice for new players, since the Indy setting (which I do not want to see changed) and difficult research (which I also do not want to see changed) will both have a far bigger impact on new players than vets. Plus I second WindedDog's concern about new players dropping games more frequently than experienced players do, and my hatred of players who think it's ok to "Stale and Bail" is well known.

So without wishing to offend anyone, I must say my initial excitement for playing in this game is starting to diminish somewhat since I think it looks likely that luck will play a bigger factor than skill in deciding it's outcome.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

I can wait for a newbie game, if it makes things easier. :)

EDIT: The only thing I can promise is to keep playing, apart from that, obviously I will not be nearly as good as the vets. If this makes the game unbalanced, then I will sit out.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

@WingedDog, LA is supposed to be poor in gems. I want to keep it thematic. I want this game to be a bit different. All games start to look the same as of late...
@Black Sun Empire, Since you have 0 MP experience I think this game is not appropriate to start with, not for you as you better start playing a few newb games first, and not for the rest of the players since your neighbors would have an unfair advantage over the rest.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

Considering the above, is the vote still active for the idea of a Tart and/or gem item nerf? Since at last count I make it 2/2 for a gem item nerf, and 3/2 in favour of a Tart nerf.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

I'll definitely not play in this case.
And actually I don't see the major reason for it. Difficult research will obviously be a natural restriction for tarts/chalice. As for the gem producers, I see no problem at all there.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

I don't see how difficult research is a natural tart restriction, it simply delays it, as it does all mid to late game strategies

The idea behind the nerfs to gem producers is to bring out different end-game strategies. Early and mid game are always interesting but the end game often devolves into who has the most clams or best tart factories -> GoH and race for Chalice and often Well of Misery. The optimal choices are narrow and the micromanagement with the clams in particular is very tedious

Playing in Bloodless without the gem producers or tarts is really interesting and makes you reevaluate your plans for the end game, if you reach it.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

Black Sun Empire,
I would have to agree that this game is not appropriate for you, there are some excellent players here and you'd just get crushed in the start and probably lose interest with 0 experience.

I played SP for about 2 month before trying a MP game and it was still hard.
I suggest you start your own newbie game if you are eager to play MP.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

I vote for settings in the initial post, including no mods and no changes to sites. However, I can play with some of proposed changes, too.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

I do not see a problem in gem producers, as:
1) I beleive they more expensive in vanilla;
2) there won't be a NAP to protect you to produce them safely, and choosing forging clams for better future you could lose both. Clams and a future. :)

As for tartarians. Really, who needs juggernauts, poison golems and iron dragons, if you can buy a cloud trapeezing-regenerating SC with 150 HP for 10 gems?

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

1) Undead SC (golems with Holy Scourge kill them REALLY fast).
2) Insane SC (you can't rely on them, if you have only few).
3) Non-commander SC (so 30 gems*4/5 + 10*1/5 = 26 gems, with nature needed for BOTH clams and fetishes also).
4) With all kinds of afflictions.
They are good, and almost unavoidable if you are going to win, but they have their limits.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

Oh, the GoR in vanila is 30 gems... Then I guess they only need some nerfing in CBM.
And almost none but pretenders would be able to summon them. With no diplomacy you wouldn't tell: "Hey, neighbour, fetch me a ring of wizardry, would you?"
Are there national heroes in vanila, or they only come with Worthy Heroes mode?

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

national hereos in vanilla are less useful but they are there.

I personally support the limitation. However:
B/C we have already a lot of players and b/c the proposed changes (tarts, gem generators) are not accepted unanimously I suggest we just stick to the original settings.

I say, let's try this RAND out. If we, as players, note an abuse to tartarians or generators or start locations we can always limit/change them for the next round.

Glory of the gods is a beautiful map and I've been wanting to try in MP for a long time.
Look, it is next to impossible to get so many players to agree to the conditions so I think we best keep the settings as originally posted and aim to start the game soon.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

Ok, if you get game full and still want me to roll nations - PM me with list of players and I will send them PMs with nation assignments. Don't forget to tell what age and what nations are banned :)

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

Age - LA. Banned nations: Ermor and R'lyeh. Thank You!

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

2Wraithlord
Do you mean that we are not waiting for the remaining people\nations? Or maybe the latecomers will get their nations from Zeldor when they come? Why not, really?

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

Let's give ppl the weekend to sign up. I'm pretty confident we will have a full roster. We are waiting for the last four players after all :)

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

I think two, not four. You didn't count LumenPlacidum and Slobby in.

p.s. Why not roll nations now, indeed?) I'm just burning to know who I am. And probably it's just about everyone.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

+1
There will be heavy rain this weekend, so I have a lot of free time I might not have later for designing a strategy.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

I'll post this again since I suppose it got missed in the rush

"This sounds like a lot of fun, but I may not be experienced enough to play in this as I see a lot of very good players here. If this game is welcome to a somewhat inexperienced player, sign me up. If not, good luck with the game."

However it looks like some other inexperienced people signed up, so if its okay for them, count me in! That should put you short just one.

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

I think it's OK to be green (like myself), just not shiny neon green ;)

At this point, I'm helping terrorize the Vets in NvsV3, so I'm feeling (over)confident :D

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

sorry 4 missing your post. good thing you've re-posted.

I think so long as you have some MP experience you should be ok. If this is to be one of your very first MP games then I think you'd be better off playing in some newb games first to get some experience.
So, sign you up for this?

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

Yeah go ahead and sign me up. This is far from my first game, although I have yet to win one :(

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 18/19]
 

ano, thank you for pointing me too the posts I missed. This thread gets updated to quickly and so I missed three posts :(

Now that we are 18 players we can definitely roll nations. The last player will get the nation that was left, or will roll with us.

I'm PMing Zeldor to roll for us!

rdonj, ready your self. we are one player shy from creating the game (me) and setting player's emails (you) :)

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 18/19]
 

Cool!
Thread being updated quickly certainly means that people like it:)

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 15/19]
 

Do the capitals go by the nation's name?- or else, how could rdonj verify that these indeed are 9 capitals?

Re: YARG - Yet Another RAND Game [open 18/19]
 

Capital sites perhaps?