Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game.
 

Oldbloods are nice, but aren't they cap only? :)

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game.
 

haha yes, but on those rare occasions you don't buy a 4th generation Slaan... :D

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game.
 

OK, here is the final version of the Warhammer mod we are using. I tested for bugs and found some (apparently llamascript had some problems with Brettonnian summons), but managed to fix them. Many of the Chaos problems have been addressed. If the are any remaining balance problems, they are highly suggested to be addressed by diplomacy.

The game is up on the llamaserver. Let's try to get this thing stated by thursday.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

You know, its a late date, and I'm not going to drop or anything, but this map seems absurdly small. It seems a pity that many nations won't have a chance to deploy all their cool summons and such, since it will all be over so fast.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

Yeah, I'd go fast research on a map this size, but it's settled and done now. We'll see how aggressively people play.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

That's the general idea. We have a lot to test in these games. We'll se how the first one goes and mix it up based on the feedback for the next. As every modder knows, more games = better feedback. One more advantage of the speed is that if you get eliminated early, you won't have to wait for 6 months to get your next Warhammer fix.

Besides, Sombre refuses to play on anything that has even close to 15 provs per player. How could we play without him? He's such a lovable character afterall and his absence would just fill us all with bitter tears and decimate all joy out of our lives.

Yeah, I thought about the possibility of easy research, but decided to stick with as "vanilla" settings as possible for the first game. The HoF is large because heroes are awesome and thematic for the WH universe.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

To all people who want to play on big maps: Die in a fire.

Seriously though, I don't think this map is going to mean people can't use their summons etc. It will mean you can't use ALL of them and that you'll have to target research rather than eventually getting all of it. This makes sense to me.

Reply to squirrel re: Itza balance pending.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game.
 

I guess I'll address all these points, but I think you're being a little bit hysterical. That said if Itza does prove to have overpowered elements they'll definitely get nerfed down. No-one likes a Hinnom after all.

Stegadons - These I admit have not been thoroughly tested, so the price could be off (too high or too low). I don't think the archer part of them is a big deal - it causes a few casualties, but only fires twice and is more of a flavour thing. They certainly got elephants beat in both morale and protection, but they share the similar problem of being expensive lowish mr animals that are stopped by roughly the same counters. They're cold blooded too, so they will fatigue out about as much as elephants in my experience. The main difference is that it's much harder to reach critical mass with stegadons than elephants because of the cost. And critical mass is a huge deal with tramplers - once you reach it prot and the like becomes a lot less relevant. We'll see how they perform I suppose.

Slann 4th and 5th gen - To an extent I guess a Slann player would still build these guys no matter what they cost, because otherwise they only have priests. While they are devastating combat mages in battlefield communions and they have a huge spread of paths, the actual depth of the paths is very shallow considering the cost. On paper they look great and if you go adding up the path totals, they seem like ubermages (they are by far the most expensive mages in the game though) but they're actually pretty hard to use and you have to make quite a few just to get the right paths. You then have to worry about upkeep and probably keep a bunch of them dormant (which does still cost you, for no benefit). They suck for research after all.

Scouts - That the scout costs 1g makes little difference. How many are going to get built? I think all national scouts should be 1g personally. Equally the fact the scouts aren't found and killed isn't massively important. It's just a scout. A good one, but consider the opportunity cost for Itza (most expensive forts of any nation, want to build huge amounts of skink priests).

Saurus Scar Veteran - Again, how many will be built? They could make decent mini thugs but the opportunity cost would be substantial and itza isn't very good at budget forging. All the saurus have magic weapons so I don't know why you're excited about that - it isn't like it's an enchanted sword with strong + to stats or anything. The 20g price reflects that national 40ldr commanders just don't get built because of the opportunity cost. If this proves to be too cheap and someone is owning with armies of these guys, I'll definitely look into it though. Unequipped saurus scar veterans would get their asses kicked by most stuff, so again I think you're being a bit silly suggesting you could win by spamming them with your 1400 gold forts.

Cheap Researchers - Yes, Itza has decent research. It's in the upper tier of vanilla. It isn't outstanding as far as I can see. I will adjust it if it's really too good.

H3 priests - These are also very expensive mages who have to do a lot of stuff to make up for their cost. If you are using them just as H3 priests they probably aren't worth it. Admittedly it is another string to their bow, but you pay for the variety and if you buy a jack of all trades and he only does one thing, you're losing out the whole time. It's another matter of opportunity costs. The strong religiosity of the nation is intended though and balanced by their extra expensive temples in my opinion. Temples you'll need to build, really, to get what you want from the forts. Along with labs, that is.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

It might be the settings we're using, but with NI i'd love 1g scouts and 20g commanders. I do think its a big deal since there aren't independents available, and you're going to want to shuttle units around.

Also, glamour and can't be found stealth are substantial advantages that other nations don't have on their scouts. This is magnified with NI because scouts are harder to replace.

Critical mass of stegadons is like 2. 1 is often acceptable. (Tested)

People are downplaying magic weapons in this context, but they were such a big deal for TNN when the topic of their sacreds came up on the IRC channel... Make up your minds - are magic weapons good or just a minor advantage?

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

Massing magic weapons for peanuts - I suppose. Saurus are supposed to be efficient units within reason. Magic weapons are a perk of the race, same concept as with Caelum. I don't think it's a huge deal though, as all these normal troops have the normal counters and after the normal troop phase, magic weapons/attacks are as standard for all races.

Itza good at everything! - They are a varied and flexible nation. They have both highly specialised and jack of all trades units. They also have a /lot/ of content, which leads to greater variety. But they have weaknesses like lack of path depth, reliance on extremely expensive units (Who are not SCs), the cold blooded trait, vulnerability to missiles, depleted pretender selection, poor forging,.... They are certainly strong and if you take their units in isolation they can look incredibly overpowered because they push some dom3 limits.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

Itza is supposed to have a very good scout. They are tiny perfectly camoflaged creatures specifically engineered and spawned for that purpose by the Old Ones, after all. So it's a national advantage. I just don't think it's a major balance concern. I plan to have scouts at 1gp in all my mods (as long as they aren't a thug or something) regardless of their ability. Ogre Kingdoms has its gnoblar trapper at 1gp. Skaven,.. not sure if I updated them recently enough.

Critical mass to do what? Take an indy on 5? If they did so unsupported without casualties or afflictions that would make them good for expansion, but it isn't all there is to balance.

I don't know who people are. I don't consider magic weapons on regular troops a massive deal. It's certainly very nice to have on PD though and it's another national advantage. I did consider it when balancing.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

Squirrel, your lack of extensive gameplay experience is showing. The purpose of a beta test is to determine the approximate strengths of a nation in toto. Stegadons may be able to prevail against weak indies, but big deal. It is much harder to get a critical mass of tramplers with them for dealing against any serious threat; let alone their profound limitations against operating in any cold dominion. They are great meatshields, is all.

1 gp scouts for a nation w/ 1400 gp castles is a balance concern - for Itza

The slan themselves are extremely expensive, only have two slots, and have a very high encumbrance. They seem appropriately balanced to me, at first pass.

Magic weapons per se are not a very important attribute. I don't know who said what about TNN, but either you are mis-remembering what they said, or they don't know what they're talking about. All magic weapons for troops do is make them good counters to ethereality, which is not really a common type of troop. Caelum has magic weapons; rarely have I given a whit.

This is a playtest game. Just play for fun :)

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

I guess I'm 'people' in this context :) I know given the choice between two identical units, I'd pay 10-15% extra for a magic weapon. Mainly because it cuts down on the tactics your opponents can use against you. Like everything though it's all situationally dependent. But I can recall games where I've thought "ah yes, that's a good tactic to use" and then upon closer checking of the enemy roster, I've had to say "arse, XYZ has magic weapons. So that idea's no good then".

I view less options for your enemy as meaning they are easier to predict, and therefore easier to defeat. Everyone has different tastes of course, but I would feel a lot safer neighbouring for example, an Elephant nation, if I knew I had magic weapons on hand.

Edit:
The odds of that is somewhere between highly probable and an absolute certainty :D

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

heh :)

10% to the value of an infantry unit... that sounds about right. No more than that, though.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

We need another four pretenders... any day now... :)

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

Sorry about my not submitting a pretender yet - I am swamped with work. I came home at 6 today and worked another 4 hours unpaid just to try and make some headway on the stuff they're giving me.

We're launching a site tomorrow and I think everyone is under the heel.

Anyway, I'm sure this'll start this weekend.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

We are missing just two pretenders now. If they don't show their faces at the waiting hall by today evening, I'll contact the players with a PM.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

Allright, the only pretender missing is now the one for the Tomb Kings. But we aren't in a real rush, so just feel free to take the time you need. First work and then play. Weekend start sounds good.

Also, I have automatic start set off, just in case, so the game won't start immediately after all pretenders are in.

On other news, archaeolept agreed to admin the second WH game. He'll start it when he sees that the time is ripe.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

oh yeah i'll probably throw up a thread next week, after this game get's going.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

Just to let people know I should have the pretender in tonight. Sorry for the delay.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

Game started! The first turn will host at 50 hours and the ones after that in 26h.

Here's my in-game action report, which will follow the adventures of my prophet, Gutbelcher. I'm too familiar with Ogre lore (I'm not sure if they're actually illeterate or not) so please forgive me any inconsisties.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

All living things have their place and role in the Plan.

Those interested in understanding this role should engage their primitive written discourse with us. Those who are uninterested fulfill the Plan also in their way, and are not to be discounted but instead killed.

Courtesies and other primitive demonstrations of insincere good will to you all,
Knife Bright Insight

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

(I'll post some in character RP stuff when the results for the first couple of turns are in - I will also be playing semi RP, though aiming to win of course - no prohetised scout for me)

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

Some Bretonnia things, and a bug:

1) Is it deliberate that the questing knight leader has leadership zero? It's really aggravating, being as he comes with troops and produces troops every turn. I always have to recruit a Bretonnian Lord just to tag along with him and bring his troops.

2) I'd like to request a minor sprite change to the questing knight commanders, so I can recognise them from their troops on the battlefield.

3) I don't understand why Virtue of the Quest is both harder to cast and to research than Errantry war. I mean basically, it's just Errantry War + free cloud trapeze, right? I can see maybe it is worth a little research to get the option of that convenience (though it is rather niche), but if I ever manage to get an S3 damsel the chances of me using her for that are almost zero. Short version: I suggest it should be S2. Or even S1.

Now the bug:

2) Errantry War and Virtue of the Quest produce Skaven. :( I suggest we leave the mod for a while though, to give time for other things to crop up. They're not low level spells.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

I guess you have the old version of the mod. Try one from this link:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showp...2&postcount=53

I changed the "Message of the Day" to reflect this situation.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

Okay I'll look into that.

I wonder if Squirreloid knows we've started?

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

Long had the Grand High Priest Tet Nukh Baset slumbered in his gilded tomb. Too long. Tet Nukh Baset awoke to find his glorious kingdom as dead as he, the priests in torpor, the great lineage of kings sealed in their tombs. This was not paradise. This was not even Nehekhara. This was a wilderness, the like of which Tet Nukh Baset knew only from the tales of Nehekhara's birth and the rise of the first dynasty. As galling as the circumstances of his awakening were, they were also somehow appropriate. He was reborn and his people would be too, in a perfect new form, to rise once more and show the world the glory of Nehekhara.

No paradise, mused Tet Nukh Baset, crushing the last of yet another group of mewling savages beneath his sleek gilded form. But an opportunity. The kings would be awoken in due course, but first his loyal servants. His right hand priest Muntuhotep had risen from his torpor already, and each month more priests awoke to curse the world and praise Baset.

As crude, jagged axes bounced from his carapace, Baset sensed something dark whirling at the edge of his mind. He ignored it. These last savages were odd, covered in tattoos that were strange yet at the same moment familiar. No matter. He crushed a handful of them and they fled, gibbering in their foul tongue. They would not threaten Nehekhara.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

A man with the same strange tattoos as the fleeing savages, but cloaked in a long robe, stands atop a hilltop watching the advance of the gilded scorpion horror. At last he speaks, and the wind itself carries his words to the creature's ears.

"Terrible one, your might is without question, and you are great and powerful. But know that we may be of use to you in the coming war. We stand betwixt you and two nations who might resist your power, and should you restore our land to us and leave to us those lands bordering our keep, we pledge not to come in warfare against you, a shield to complement your fine golden sword, for a period of at least one year. Take what council you need, and when you have an answer for us, speak it to the wind and it will find its way to our ear."

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

And the Lord cameth upon the Bretons in his lands, terrorizing his people. And he smote them with his fury, and their eyes were filled with terror and their blows were weak, for He had the protection of heaven.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Send Pretenders!
 

Another chapter, following the life of Rolf the Engineer student/scribe slave under Ogre rule.

It seems that many people have been inspired to post in-character. I like this.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

So the gilded beast shall leave us no respite. Very well, face us in honorable combat, your scorpion vs. what few forces we have left, and leave your army aside for the moment. Should you defeat us, not only will the gates of our fortress be left wide for you (effectively, as there will be no one to man the walls), but we will also give unto you what wealth we possess in gems and gold before we are vanquished. Should you lose, well, your army is still right there and we doubt we could defeat it after suffering whatever grevious losses your golden scorpion inflicts on us. Bring your army this turn and we will take our riches with us to our graves.

Will you meet the champions of the north winds under these terms?

(aside to Brettonia - was that all PD in our battle this past turn? Geez...)

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

(sorry for the brevity of this response, I am very pressed for time - I have time to take the turn, but not to post a RP response. I'll let my actions do the talking)

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

Bugger, I sent in the wrong turn yesterday. How annoying.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

Could I have a small extension, like 6 hrs? The llamaserver keeps sending my turns back saying there's a problem with the 2h file, and I don't have time to deal with it atm.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

Extension granted and showing on the game page. I decided to go for a full 24h extension, just in case there is something a bit more serious behind this error than just a temporary bug.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

Word flooded back to Baset from the corners of the newly carved Nehekhara that the natives were being brought under control. The strange tattoo covered marauders in the northeast had presented little more resistance than the smaller barbarian tribes, though their clear alignment with ruinous powers had given him some pause for thought. The last of them had fled to the east to be crushed by a struggling feudal kingdom. Scouts reported they had an appropriate sense of honour, but their ways were primitive and they constrained themselves from achieving true glory with their petty beliefs and reliance on heavy armour. He would send his agents to investigate further - if necessary they could be removed.

To the West though, scouts reported a greater puzzle. A race of cold blooded lizards seemingly working in tandem with honourless mercenaries. Baset recognised the influence of some ancient power upon them, but their apparent concord with brigands was unsettling. Any movement closer to the lands civilised by Nehekhara would require a punitive response.

Of the lands to the north, the scouts had spoken little. Lumbering hulks wandering in yet more barbaric and primitive tribes and the scent of disease and corruption was carried on the wind.

All cause for reflection. The ancient texts will be consulted, the most powerful of the Tomb Kings awoken from their slumber. Nehekhara would know soon enough.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

Just a minor announcement, apparently I screwed up while making the map and there is one province (88) that has indy recruits as a result. Just letting everyone that this is a bug and recruiting those indies would constitute as "abusing an bug".

Just thought to let everyone know in order to avoid any possible drama (since there's been some going around recently).

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

Apologies for the stale. It was a pretty bad turn to stale, but could have been worse.

I sent my trn file by accident and didn't wait to get the 'i have your turn' email back. So yeah, dumb mistake.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

Wait... why was it a bad turn to stale?!?!

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

The Plan requires gems oriented towards the earth wind, in order to move forward.

The Plan allows for flexibility with regards to other types of gems, except for the onyx gems of the death wind, which are unavailable.

The servants of the Plan await communications on this topic with great earnestness and attention.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

I can't take a turn tonight (because of the llamaserver issues) and I can't take a turn tomorrow (I am busy all day and evening).

So roughly 46 hours from now, I'll be able to take a turn.

I suggest once llamaserver stops going nuts we put a really long timer on the game until people are back into the swing of it, then we go back to 26 hour.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

Sounds good. I'll keep an eye on the game page.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

Urgh, I need another extension. Really sorry about this guys - I've been holding people up a fair bit.

Anyway the turn is just hosting as we speak but I'm too tired to take it and I won't be home again with internet and dom3 access until around 40 hours from now. If I could therefore get an extension to around 48 hours that would be great.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

Extension granted.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

For Pete's sake llama, get it over with already! :P I'm waiting till I'm dead before I post my ruminations on Skaven and Brettonia. Right now all I do is open the turn, look at the events, check my scout, check my research, then send in the 2h file without doing _anything_.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

We fear the Plan has run into something of a snag.

The Plan is a thing of life, made of life, for the sustenance of life. These risen ones, being not of life but of death, were not fully anticipated.

Should the home-fortress of the large, ignorant warmbloods fall into their hands, along with the fortress of those foolish warmbloods who gave themselves over to the Enemy, already in the possession of the risen (?), this will have dire consequences according to original prophecies.

Therefore, we call on those warmbloods who have the wisdom to respect life, to join with us in repulsing these risen dead.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

Oops, I just staled. Any chance we can extend the server timer to 36 hrs, and the timer-notice to 12h? I think our turns are about to get very complicated.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

Game switched to 36h hosting.

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

Bleh, now that Nehekara has chosen Brettonia as its next target, I'm never going to die. Yay for sitting in a non-cap fort beating back all comers?

Re: Sign of the Hammer - A Warhammer Mod Game. Game on!
 

I won't be able to get my turn in on time tonight. Any chance I could have a 3 hour extension? Thanks!