Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Just a note:
in a game where the balance is as complicated as this one, everything is a factor. Not just national units, national spells, skills, national gem income, etc. But even something like the heroes they get. WorthyHeroes (which I totally love) can still arguably affect the vanilla balance altho probably not much. About the only "no effect" mod would be something like Streamers and Banners (altho there is some debate about the affect on players and enemies) :)

It also adds another layer of learning for new players. Along with email in and email out you might have install issues.

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I appreciate your concerns Gandalf, but I think we can all manage to install a mod. :) This is a mod I have no troubles with enabling, so its decided then; we will play vanilla game with only Worthy Heroes enabled.

Stagger Lee, welcome! You can certainly have the last spot, welcome to the fun! I'll add you to the playerlist.

Note to all:
-Please send me your email addresses via a PM which you want to use for sending and receiving turns or where I can at least contact you. Its easier for me to add you to a mailinglist if I need to contact you instead of sending 12 PMs.
Please provide me as well with a note wether you want to have this address used for in-game comms like diplomacy.
-Please check you have the latest game version installed; 3.23b
-Please check you have Worthy Heroes mod installed; v1.8 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=36670
-Please create your pretender gods and send the files to me at: captainkraak [at] hotmail.com
-DO NOT PROTECT YOUR PRETENDERS WITH A PASSWORD!!

Finally I would like your input before we start about the graphs on or off.
I believe they can be an aid for the new players to get an overview of how they're doing in relation to the other nations, but at the same time the game can focus on a 'graph race' to a point where diplomacy looses its function.
How does each of you think about the graphs?

EDIT: Game with preliminary settings created on Llamaserver.net under the name: DavidandGoliath
(Hinting at the newbies as well as vets in this game)

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I thought we were using the Llamaserver ?

Except the fact that someone else may get into the game while it is accepting pretender, email adresses and pretenders are automatically taken care of by the llamaserver.

Just create the game, we will sent our pretenders to the proper address, and the game will use the email address we used to send it.

For mail, I will be using either PM or the contact email listed in my profile (email is better, because I can read / send them at work).

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Yeah sorry I didn't realize that. Upload your pretenders to the game then! Good point. It's ready to accept pretenders on Llamaserver!

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Pretender uploaded. Good luck everyone :)

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Who is playing Hinnom, it isn't on the list of players but someone turned a pretender in for it.

I see Pygg chose Fomoria instead of Hinnom (thanks Pygg for not taking Hinnom in a Noob game).

Its not listed in the forum that anyone asked for it.:confused:

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Llamaserver allows the admin to send an email to all players as well. (Admin options -> send message to players.)

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Alright, I'm now in this for good (gods... what have I gotten myself into?!)

For Diplomacy: I can be reached here by PM, or on AIM (sn: Alehkhs), where I am always signed-on, just leave a message if I don't reply.

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

My thanks to Quitti for suggesting this map. I never tried it before and i must say i really really like it- its a totally gorgeous map. Visually its just so pretty. If it wasn't for quitti's suggestion, i would never have found this map.

I.

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

The real problem isn't getting into it, it's getting out of it. Two weeks from now you will probably be in three or more games. If it's really your first MP game, you will probably loose, but you will learn a LOT. You always learn more from desperate situations than comfortable ones.

I've been recently promoted to playing Fomoria and I hereby declare war on the following nations: Helheim, Ermor, Arcoscephale, and Neifelhiem (seriously?). Expect nothing less than immediate and relentless hostilities! Do your best.

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Ow hostilities right from the start! Awesome!

You guys still haven't commented on the Graphs On or Off issue yet.

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I'm for graphs on.

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

i agree- graphs on please.

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I know it was me who suggested graphs off, but since this is a learning game and people seem to want graphs on I'm more than happy to go with the majority.

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I vote graphs on, i prefer them off, but I agree it is something people will need to learn to use.

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I really recommend you guys don't pick the one version of it with preset sites though, they can unbalance the game a lot if you know what you are doing...

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

*with=without.

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

LOL, Your putting Arco in with Helheim, Niefelheim, and Ermor?

Us low brow Philosophers? Dang it.....NOW I have to go get those stupid Spartans involved , not to mention the Myrmedians. And all I wanted to do was sit on a rock and ask...."Why is there Air".

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Thanks Yskonen. My C'tis pretender is up on llamaserver with nine others. Hinnom is gone, must have been a mistake. We're getting close.

Quitti, I was wondering about the map and the presets. I will play that map SP now, as it does look cool, but there is a plain version in my menu too - maybe that is the one we should play? Anybody else have experience with the map? Do preset sites rule out random ones?

Graphs are fine with me. There appears to be quite a lot of ongoing game info available on llamaserver - much more detailed than in game graphs. I'm ok with that too. This is not exactly a championship match. I want to learn.

Anyway, let's have some fun!:cheers:

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

If you mean the Score Tables those are created by the game if you turn on the --scoredump switch. Its available in your solo games also.

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

You're playing on Shahrivar, right? There are several versions of that on the llamaserver. The first two versions of the map do not have preset starts, and have the pre-set magic sites. The third version of the map got rid of the sites and has preset starts, but only for 10 players. The fourth version (Shahrivar_SomBurn I THINK has none of those pre-set magic sites, but I don't think it has pre-set starts. Then there's another version with no sites and pre-set starts for 10 players.

I don't know what version you have, but chances are you guys will want to play Shahrivar_SomBurn for your game. Pre-set starts or the lack thereof is probably not a big deal, and some of those sites are way overpowered (for example, the 60% blood magic discount site on the top right of the map) and can be completely game changing. ...while others are barely worth noticing. Or, if you have a version that is not Shahrivar_SomBurn that you think would be better for the game, you can upload that.

And for the record, preset sites do not preculde other sites from appearing, unless the map maker decided that they do. Whether they do in that map or not I do not know for sure, and would have to examine one of the maps. But generally speaking map makers don't do that.

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I didn't realise there were that many versions.
I just selected "Shahrivar Som.map", but that can still be changed before we start.

I also downloaded the map and it contains 3 versions:
Shahrivar.map
Sharivar Som.map
NI Shahrivar Som.map

So which one is the one to pick which won't imbalance things?

Only Dark Kitty and I need to upload a Pretender and we're a GO!

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Done, sorry for keeping you waiting ;)(couldn't design a pretender at work yesterday:angel)

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

hmm, i'm still not sure on the difference, NI is no independents, and i'd vote no to that. But if one of the other has pre-set magic sites, well, that's just annoying for people who haven't played it much, so i'd say no to that too

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

The current map is the one with pre-set magic sites.

In my opinion, the main concern would be balance, especially the 60% discount on blood magic site, if a blood nation gets it.

I can play either with or without the pre-set sites, I think the balance problems can be solved via diplomacy (but I may be wrong) :)

(BTW, I did check all sites when I saw that our map had pre-set sites, so I can list them with their effects, if we keep playing on this map version)

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

If I change the map to the Shahrivar.map instead of Shahrivar Som.map will that be without pre-set sites?

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

No.

I just checked the map files included in the zip file :
- Neither seems to have predefined start
- All have the preset sites
- NI Shahrivar is the no independant map
- Shahrivar Som has the pre-set site already searched, while you have to search them in the two other map versions

BTW, if I read correctly the map editing document, the pre-set sites may be overwritten by random sites (if there is already 4 random sites in the province).

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Well then, IS there even a Shahrivar map without pre-set magic sites then?

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I havent looked at the map. But the overwrite depends on whether or not it is preceded by #land or #setland. The land one will wipe out any random assigned then do the assigns. The setland will only allow the assigns if there is still space after the randoms have done their job.

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

No, I don't think there is (or at least I didn't found any).

However, there is a map version without the most unbalancing sites (schools bonus and mages recruitment), here : http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43958


Gandalf :
I never used these commands, just reading the doc. It says :
The #land sections just tells of killing its previous inhabitants, not erasing existing sites ...

(And it's #setland in this case, anyway :) )

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Right killfeatures. I knew it was in there someplace. (sorry, its really early here)

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Ah this is the SomBurn map version mentioned earlier. We'll settle for that one, great find.
Ok, people, be sure to download this map version into your map folders. :)

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

So far so good. We only need one more player's diety:

which means we only need:


3) Yskonyn - Caelum

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

True, after I have confirmed a few things we will go. Probably in a few hours!

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I know this was already answered - but there's a version without the preset sites on the llamaserver (Shahrivar 10 starts) - but like the name says, it has preset starting points for 10 players (quite well balanced too). But you'll definitely want a map without the sites, or at least the recruit/schoolbonus sites preset. They will simply break the game by being in places everyone knows about them. If the SomBurn version doesn't have preset sites, it's good to go.

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I'm very much against pre-set sites in any form. Perhaps we should play a different map altogether? Having said that I don't want to throw a spanner in the works when the game is so close to starting.

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I now have four versions of Shahrivar in my menu - the newest says rebalanced for MP. Maybe bumping random sites up to 55 or 60 will ensure that the presets are just visually appropriate, and nothing more.

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

if anyone wants to talk strategies or bounce ideas around, I'm down for that, since this is after all a learning experience. Also interested in setting up diplomatic relations

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

so who we waitin on?

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Yskonyn

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Ok people, sorry for the delay, but there were a few things I needed to get sorted. Expect the game to kick off this afternoon (once I get to my game pc)! (to cater for timezones: this afternoon means about 3 - 8 hrs from now)

Re: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Ok gents! The game has started. Let Diplomacy flow and be sure to enjoy the game.
Again I would like to stress that this is supposed to be a NEWBIE LEARNING game, so go easy on those who haven't got much experience yet (that includes me! ;) )!
It's nice if you can show how powerful you can be and squash players early on, but that's not the purpose of this game.
Also, feel free to have an 'open hand' attitude and discuss tactics or problems with your empire management here so everyone can learn from it.

Above all; HAVE FUN!

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

strangely, the map link provided for shahrivar by the llama server is not working for me, i went to it, downloaded the maps, but the game crashes and says no maps? They are in my folder and everything.

it still gives me map not found errors.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

nevermind, apparently it just needed the _ between shahrivar and som.

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

OK so for Nifleheim, I started, my first thing is to set my taxes to 150 and my main group to patrol, this will lose me some population but give me a big headstart, i need lots of gold to buy them giants.

I also made my Scout a Prophet, and renamed him so I could remember who he is:) (i like to rename things so i know what they are, but so everyone else doesnt)

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Map isn't working for me either...

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

The map image file should be "Shahrivar_Som.tga". If you happen to have the map file without the underscore, just rename or copy it with the appropriate name.
The map file should be "Sharivar_SomBurn.map", you should have dowloaded it from this forum (and it should have come with the image file with the underscore).

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

it worked for me after only adding the _

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

Yup- pretty similar over here. But 150 is 'the safe side'; for those new players out there, sometimes early cash is VERY important and having a bit of unrest (that can be patrolled down later on), you can go as high as 200%. Sometimes somewhere between 150 and 200 is better. Especially if you have mounted or flying troops (like caelum- they can patrol really good with their flying starting units and 190% is prety safe for them) (please try this out in solo play before you apply it here if you haven't played with this strategy before).

Also remember that there are mecenaries available. I won't say more on the subject but its easy to overlook them when you are new and they can really change the way you play your nation (especially in the early game).

Re: RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here
 

I appreciate the feedback, guys. Raising the tax levels is a common practise early on to get a few bucks quickly?
Are there other means to keep your tabs on the population early game than patrolling?