Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

Did anyone actually see someone was forced out of the game? At least once?

Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

In a team game I was administrating, one of the team captains had me boot one of their members from the game. Reasons were them underperforming and being extremely difficult to communicate with. I don't really like kicking players, but I have to admit, they had a point. I can't recall any other examples of a player being kicked from a game off the top of my head.

Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

The idea of kicking somebody from a game because of their skill level is completely ridiculous and outside the spirit of the game. Its elitism and nothing less.

Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

What is the "spirit of the game" anyways? If its to have fun then having someone whose so godawful that they're completely ruining the game balance can assuredly go against said spirit.

Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

No, that's stupid. Its still very fun to crush them with your mighty armies and plunder all of their ill defended provinces. The only way you could not find that fun is if you regularly feel that there are just some people who aren't "good enough" to play with you. If that's the case then you've got problems outside the scope of Dominions.

Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

"Heh, this mook is so bad I don't know why he even bothers."

*grabs fistfull of cheetoes*

"I know. Rather than give him some pointers in the spirit of good sportsmanship I'll passive-aggressively call him out on the forums and then he'll feel really bad."

Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

Nasser, no offense but you're either too shallow or too naive in your opinion. I suggest you actually bother to read this thread, not just the first post of it...

when we talk about bad we're talking about people who refuse to listen when people do try to give him pointers, advise, etc and try to explain to him what he is doing wrong and how to fix it... we're talking about people who can't even expand against indies(AI mind you, not another human player) which shows complete lack of understanding of how to play this game.

now when you mix the 2 together you get a person who is totally clueless as to what he's doing inside the game yet refuses to learn how to play properly(as in simple things like expanding and making armies, not some sophisticated strategy or anything...).

now, when you realize that this is a multiplayer game, which means multiple participants, than you should also understand that the game should be enjoyable for everyone. personally I don't understand how a game can be enjoyable by someone when he is clearly clueless as to what the game is about, but I guess that's just me... but even that is beside the point, as this 1 person is ruining the game for everybody else by disrupting the natural balance of the game. Dominions is a strategy game, strategy games are supposed to be challenging, requiring the usage of certain tactics and counter tactics, etc. taking the challenging effect out of a strategy game is like tearing the heart out of a person. you're left with some weird golem(and not in the game sense of the term...) that's just being there doing nothing...

Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

Hello troll. I don't know what a 'cheetoe' is, but I presume you're attempting to cast me as a geeky basement dwelling misanthrope. How constructive. How original.

This thread isn't out to make anyone feel bad. But to be clear, I wouldn't care if someone completely incompetent read it and felt bad. They should. Maybe it would motivate them to improve. Or put them off joining games. I think either would be beneficial.

I was actually interested to see what the community felt on the subject, since stalers are routinely subbed out without their consent and in terms of game balance, there's no difference between someone not playing and someone playing so badly that they have no discernable impact.

I would consider listening to advice and actively seeking to improve to be signs that someone is not a bad player, regardless of their performance in a given game. So the thread isn't about them. But frankly you shouldn't need advice to play at a basic level (expanding from your cap for instance). This basic level is, I would argue, expected of anyone who signs up to play. You shouldn't need to be told /after/ a game of football starts, that the objective is to kick the ball into the opposing team's goal.

Honestly some people here are so ready to get in a flap about 'elitism' that they just don't listen. We are not talking about a regular new player making mistakes here.

Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

I feel safe in saying most active MP players on this forum would disagree with that, or they wouldn't be unhappy about stalers. Hell they'd probably all play SP instead of MP.

Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

I think thats there is a big difference between being a bad player and stall without notice.
The latter is something that ruins games. More often than not theres 1 player signing in a PBEM game and after 2 or 3 turns stalls more than he plays. Why in the hell he signs in for???
Hes neghbours then get an unfair advantage.

Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

So,.. what's the difference again?

Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

The difference is the staler isn't playing.
Generally one subs a staler because you suspect he's gone, not because he's been missing turns. I've never seen someone who's missed turns but still wants to play get subbed out. It's usually either people who don't respond to messages after missing a couple turns or people who miss a few turns then admit they can't keep up.
Of course, I've also never seen a case where someone stays active on the forum, claims to want to keep playing but doesn't actually send in turns.

Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

Sure, I understand that. It's why I wouldn't kick someone for skill level but would for staling. But consider these two responses.

Can you crush a staling position and plunder their ill defended provinces? Yep.

Guy who doesn't expand out of his capital - ruins the game? As much as a staler does, sure. Neighbours get an unfair advantage? Yep.

So functionally, very little difference, if any, at least in those examples.

Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

to clarify what Sombre is trying to say, such pathetic skill level is the equivalent of a staler, neither are doing anything useful during their turns...

Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

It all seems a bit moot, as nobody would sub in for a position where the previous player set it up SO badly that he had to be kicked. Now if there was a way to kick a player and turn his provinces into empty space which you couldn't enter, maybe you could correct the somewhat rare occurance of grossly mismatched opponents.

How bad is too bad? How long do you wait untill a player (such as myself!) has played very long and still is rotten at dominions? When do you send the suits in, beat him up and steal his hardcopy?

Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

According to my experience there are many people willing to sub dying nations.
Some think it's some sort of a challenge: not to die as long as possible, or pull 'hopeless cripple' out of it's grave.
Some take it for 'free combat experience': maximum of battles, minimum of waiting and planning.
Some are just bored and do not want to wait for a new game to get started.

So, if player A had misinformed administrator in a 'no newbs' game about his skill and was acting so awfully badly that leaving him in the game meant 'free provinces' for his neighbour, even if his neighbour was me - I would considered him being subed for someone capable of baring his fangs.

Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

there's also this concept called "stonewalling". true I borrow it from a different game and sort of genre(still somewhat strategy but very different) but it can still apply. stonewalling basically means to cost your enemy as much time and resources to kill you. in browser games such as Earth2025(if any of you know it) it is standard practice in clan wars to get the entire alliance to focus on talking about a single country in as short time as possible(so he won't be able to react and stonewall), making for the most efficient killing.

this concept doesn't fit perfectly into dominions but it can still somewhat apply. take over a dying nation and just claw your way into a very vicious and bloody war instead of simply giving up. make your enemy get Pyrrhic victories!

Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

Don't like this idea. Only place it possibly has any application is in designated high-end games. Otherwise, if someone else has the courtesy to spend their valuable time submitting turns, you should damn well have the courtesy to accept the turns they submit. If you find the player that bad, don't let them in to the next game.

Re: MP Game: How bad is too bad?
 

They can't be spending that much time on the turns if they only have one or two provinces. At least I don't know what they'd be spending their time on - maybe they spend an age agonising over things and can't decide what to do, so just end up sitting there.