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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
Opposition doesn't do damage though, and can be MR resisted, plus I think it takes S3 to cast and has short range. Not incredibly hard to pull off, but it's not "any astral at all will kill you dead" either.
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
arcane bolt is pretty stiff, it has decent ranger (35) and an10+ and and 3 prec. 2 paths and 20 fatigue. So a 1s mage could cast it 5 times with 5pearls. It's level 1 evo, which is something most people could have by then. Opposition is lvl 6 enchantment, which is probably later.
With arcane bolt though, you're probably talking about specifically sending someone to kill the thing while you're still using conventional armies... and needing more than one guy (probably) and pearls (most likely). And that spells pain in the butt guy all up in my stuff. He'd be most useful if you surprised them and crippled his forces. He'd probably be fine with a horror helm and some black steel stuff. I'll admit, however, that I only made him on SP, and used him more decked out... but, he was using horror helm and blacksteel. I gave him a brand though. |
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If arcane bolt fails, there's always control of course, but frankly arcane bolt is the main thing that makes S nutty good against magic beings in cbm. Obviously it's not an instant I win button, but being AN, long range and extremely accurate and cheap, easy to research, it's an awesome counter right up there with the very best in the game, imo. Of course if it does have missile limitations, that's interesting and changes it a great deal. |
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'It's something people will probably have by then' is a strange thing to say. GoR + research to get the magic being, versus a super low level spell that they'll have anyway because they'll have gone for arcane probe. No 'probably' about it. If it's midgame and you use a magic thug against them, they can research it in a turn if they haven't. If you send S2 mages to cast arcane bolt and the magic being isn't there, they'll switch to numerous other awesome spells against the regular army no matter what's scripted. It isn't like stellar cascades paralyze and mind burn suck against regular troops. I don't think magic thugs should even be considered against astral nations tbh. |
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
The main problem with Arcane Bolt is that shields can parry it--a guy with a Shield of Gleaming Gold is effectively immune to the things. On the other hand, it's not MR-negates so it'll hit regardless of their antimagic amulets and so on.
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
That's also why nether bolt sometimes seems to be more reliable than nether darts.
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
Are you sure it can be parried? Because while I haven't tested it, anecdotally it doesn't seem like it can be.
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
I think all no aoe spells without 100 prec can be parried. At least they often fail to do anything.
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
I did some fast testing--I gave a Mechanical Giant two shields (parry 9 and 11)and threw a good ~40 arcane bolts at him point-blank. Not a one hit.
Even with just his baseline shield it took a good 10 arcane bolts to bring down the Mechanical Giant, between the spell missing(despite high precision and low range) and shield parry. All that said...I still probably won't use Mechanical Giants unless I'm like playing Ulm. |
Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
There you go, lumber construct very early, but expensive for what you get, thug SC thing. Maybe not SC in the traditional sense...
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
Llama, great job! I'm looking forward to testing these in MP soon. :)
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
I made a small experiment and had a cyclops+aesir nation vs. a tartarian nation. Cyclops come out faster, which may allow to get artefacts earlier on the way but their price is such that they don't get spammed as tartarians are. Of course, GoR has a price, and takes some time, but naked (non blind) tartarians can be pretty strong. When I got 1 fully kitted cycops killed before being able to buff himself by 3 tartarian monsters who flew upon him from afar, I realised my initial assessment was certainly wrong.
So I'd say the 35 gems cost looks quite balanced, although it may in fact be a bit expensive considering earth gems can be used to forge all kinds of good stuff. The aesir is probably more affordable given air gems aren't all that useful imo, and she comes with a nice armor. |
Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
This looks way OP. not for me. Nice use of the balrog miniature though.
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Many members of this gaming community want an endgame alternative to spamming Tartarians, and it would be ideal for a mod such as this to achieve (something akin to) universal acceptance... |
Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
llamabeast:
I hope you release fixed version compatible with CBM soon, so we can test it in MP :) |
Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
So Treant has forestshape? But only +20hp and +2strength in a forest?
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
From what I see in the mod file, he also gain stealth, and its immobile form is better
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
Hello everyone!
Apologies for my silence - real life suddenly got busy again! I will probably not have time for an update for a week or two (which is ridiculous as it would only take an hour, but there we are). When I do I will post some extensive reaction to comments here, modify some summoning costs and replicate pyg's CBM fix (thanks for that by the way). Thanks very much for the feedback, it will be very helpful. LDiCesare, your comment about actually getting the different units fighting each other was great - if anyone else has similar experiences they would be really helpful. In fact any comments will be helpful, and certainly very carefully read (quiet as I have been, I've read this thread through several times - I often read it on my sparkly new iPhone, from which I can not face typing replies). |
Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
The monster slots seem to heavily overlap with the Avernum mod (unless I edited it earlier not to overlap with something else :)
What we need is some public table for extension modders, tracking the availability of slot resources so the mods would eventually be compatible without extensive editing on end user's part. |
Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
See Gregstrom's mod compatibility index. he's put a lot of work into that kind of thing.
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
Something like that, yes, but going from numbers rather than mods (i.e. something for modders to guide themselves by rather than for end users). Like, #newmonster table: 2500 - free, 2501 - free, 2502 - taken by mod X, 2503 - taken by mod X AND mod Y, etc.
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
Feel free to take a good look at the Compatibility Index and start typing, then.
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
I have a spreadsheet that does that for my own mods and some others.
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
1) The Ember Lord is too big. His image causes the selection target to be way too big when you try to select him from a bunch of commanders.
2) I don't know if it's a conflict or a bug: I put as many EA races as possible on a large map (SP game)--and one of my opponents was named "Endgame Diversity Mod". I never saw him, though--he was dead before I got there. |
Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
2) is no bug - it's described in the OP.
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
While playing with this mod I noticed that Heavy Calvary and Knights have been given a Shishi claw attack. This was in a MA game im running. The Shishi claw is dam 2 X2 vs demons with 2 attacks and counts as magical.
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
Are you using Pyg's quick fix version? That will be required not to have overlapping attacks.
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
Is there any information about these summons? How to know their magic paths? Could someone post it here?
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
The early era nation called "Endgame Diversity Mod" included with the mod shows all of the magic paths for the units as recruitable commanders.
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
I had a thought that it might be a good idea to separate the sample nation into a separate .dm, to avoid the sample nation being unintentionally included in random-nation picks (unless I'm mistaken and that won't occur for some reason).
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
I do not believe that llamabeast ever updated the .zip file in the OP. so use pyg's fix on page 8 of the thread.
llama- please update! thanks |
Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
Is there any list of monsters for this mod with all stats, including magic levels?
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
I finally tried it out tonite using the built in nation with the recruitable SCs. Wow, what a blast. It's really nicely done Llama. And it's so fun to crank the AI up to max, and still just beat the stuffing out of them.
I geared all my SCs out, using the Debug mod. I think by the time you get most of these, you would be gearing them out pretty well anyway. I think the Ember Lord is probably my favorite. Great sprite, nice paths, full slots. Nice Aoe fire. What's not to like. Truly a Balrog. Second fave would be the Grendelkin. Sure, no magic, but with the right gear it's still a very good SC. The attack skill is good from the start. I wouldn't send one out late game without gear though. I like the Treant, but it took me a while to figure out why the change shape command wasn't doing anything. I thought it was bugged. Ahh... he's rooting when he changes shape, got it now. And indeed, he becomes quite powerful rooted. Nice slots... he's all that the Treelord should have been. The Zmey is one of the coolest looking sprites, but I got mine wounded quite a lot going it alone. Low Protection and the lack of magic makes him like a Dragon with no magic. Impressive, but vulnerable. Anyway, I put three Spirit Helms on him, with bracers, regen ring and luck ammy, and now he's all set to kill and maim like crazy. The Wendigo is probably the coolest idea of the whole mod. Mine got super powerful, but maybe it was in part due to the fact that I made him my prophet. And yeah, I noticed the size bug, but I guess that's already been covered. Very cool idea though... you just have to keep him moving, so he doesn't eat everyone, much like Hinnom. I guess some growth scale would tame that. I didn't try out the Pretender units. I already know them pretty well. I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to use the True Firebird, though a +50 fortune teller is nothing to scoff at. The Shishi's as well, I'm not sure how to use, though they look like awesome castle defenders. As for costs, I'll let you guys figure that out. I'm not really good at judging that sort of thing. PS: Now I just need to find an MP game where I can actually use these guys. |
Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
Well done on this mod Llamabeast, its exactly what the end game needed, more diversity.
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
I'll probably ask for this if I play another MP. It looks like it give all the nations a more domestic place to go.
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
I agree, it's one of the best things thats happened in a long time.
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
I dont see the use behind the Phoenix and the spell that summons those 2 large air-bears. Phoenix isnt immortal, has only 19 HP or what and costs 20 firegems ?
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
Firebird autocasts Solar Brilliance and has 50% fortune teller.
Shishis have anti-undead/demon attacks and can cloud trapeze. |
Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
Yep, thanks Zeldor. Ragnarok, all your questions are answered if you just read the descriptions.
In addition to what Zeldor said, the Firebird also has the brings-good-luck attribute from one of the pretenders, so it actually brings good events as well as preventing bad ones. This attribute doesn't have an icon, so I guess people may not realise it's doing it. Also, they are not air bears. They are air lions, at worst. I find they're quite vicious once they've cast mistform, and they're super fast both in battle and on the strategic map. Also also, I've pretty much finished an update. No new content or anything, but some beneficial tweaks I think. Should be released tomorrow or Sunday morning at the latest. |
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
Can we have a few unique vampire "super" lords?- Like the forefathers of the vampire race, the pure bloods etc.
Also some lovercraftian ubber monster summons for R'lyeh might be nice. |
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And a unique kain like supervamp would be nice. |
Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
Nice suggestions :)
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Re: Endgame Diversity Mod - Lategame summons, released at last!
No vampires or Lovecraftian things from me, since (a) I don't really fancy doing them, and (b) I think D and S already have plenty of late game options so they wouldn't be filling quite such a niche. However, I would always encourage people to have a go at making something they fancy seeing!
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