Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

It is true and it enables a situation when an immortal (think vampire lord thug) behind the pd has the possibility to destroy the whole attacking army to the very last mage. When pd routes, the attacking army will not route no matter how many casualties inflicted to them.

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

I definitely have an example of both sides routing.
I can post the turn if you'd like. The attacker routes first with the message, then he has a berserk Ice Devil and my forces can't kill him and the routing (fatigued or bound) troops fast enough so they route. Now with the "Atlantis has routed" message alternating with the "Pangaea has routed" one.

I didn't count turns, so it's possible one or the other of us routed for different reasons. I can run it with debug on, but that'll take awhile, so it'll have to wait.

I wonder if it only works in that order? If the defenders route first (for % of hp reasons, or whatever) then since the attackers are supposed to autoroute first, the game doesn't bother to try to route them. Whereas if the attackers have routed and the battle keeps going long enough it's happy to try the defenders next?

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

That's possible. I can't remember any such situation when the attacker routed first. This all sounds like one of those WAD bugs.

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

I believe I've seen it the other way as well.

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

The point is reasonable backstory. I don't doubt that you can make something up but ... your backstory would have to be more believable than this:
They are all just living inside a computer simulation with arbitrary rules designed for an unknown purpose, cynics say it's just for the entertainment of an extradimensional species, and the 50-turn rout 75-turn autokill rule was included to reduce hosting and coding times.

That two angels duking it out for 50 rounds makes the world "unstable" in some way could be but two drunken vikings in a barfight?

No...? Why should anyone complain about the turn-limit if it wouldn't be a problem to them? Oh, yeah, I can loose to turn limit. But I can also win, no? Only that winning by using "gamey strategies" is somewhat stale even more so if you are actually forced to use them.
It's only because the game is not balanced that you can even say you need the autokill because you can't kill SCs in another way. Anyway do you really think the game is balanced, I think you said something else about Hinnom?
The game is only balanced in the sense that there is no game winner unit and there are a lot of options. People find their own way of playing. Saying that implementing a more beautiful solution than turn limit and providing other ways to deal with SCs will kill balance is just like saying that planting new trees will make the forest chaotic. It was chaotic all along the only difference is that the guides don't apply anymore...

It's certainly possible unless they changed it.
I've had a thug routing after he had routed the enemy (he routed after chasing the last two crippled militiaman to the other side of the map and was even faster from the field in the end).

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

Give me a reasonable backstory to this:
SC attacks province.
Defending army routs.
Some defending units can't run because their fatigue is over 100.
After 75 turns, berserker couldn't kill all defenders and is killed.
SC fatigue is 0 at all times and HP is always full.

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

I can create reasonable backstory all day long - so can a lot of people. Kind of immaterial because it wouldn't be official, and it would be subjective; ie., what you find perfectly reasonably, I may not.

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

Quite the opposite: I can say we need autokills because SC's aren't balanced.

I am against the removal of the autokill because it makes the game *less* balanced.

Hinnom as a nation - is an option. Game administrators have the ability to remove it or not.

Players, have the ability to compensate either in the game setup or in diplomacy.

Autokills are a game mechanic that are not subject to modification.

As for finding a better way to balance SC's; or a better way of implimenting autokills - I'm certainly not opposed to it. However given the developers statements the discussion it rather bootless.

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

So is 'defending' autokill.

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

Yes, he would route at 50 turn limit. That's why I wrote that it's possible (not certain) to destroy the whole attacking army - you still have to do it in 50 turns time.

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

Ya? So? Its still a free country.

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

Er,.. ok. So it's only ok for you to point that out?

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

That's pretty much the way America did the 'Free World' thing, so... sure.

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

Actually Sombre, I'm not really interested in getting in a flame war with you, especially as you're dead on on a lot of topics especially modding and code.

That said, your previous post left the distinct impression you were once again policing the threads and saying what points of views were valid and which were not; something I reject.

IlluminatedOne made several new statements to which I wished to respond. New content hence new discussion. Some of his points were contrary to what I actually believe. For example, I indicated that I'm favor of NT's spells that add insanity; I suggested that games should have an option to set what the autokill duration should be. I just don't believe that they are relevent to the essential points. Are SC's too limited or too strong? There are *very* few effective midgame and endgame tactics, and increasing the strength of SC's will only narrow effective strategies.

Finally, when posts get into the area of discussing people, as opposed to topics they are really falling afoul of the spirit and letter of the usage agreements, and I'd like to suggest that courtesy, is the more appropriate response.

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

What does that have to do with anything? You're the only one 'flaming' by suggesting I'm trolling to provoke a flame war.

I don't see where you're getting that at all. I just pointed out a logical problem in your post.

I find the accusation that I try to 'police' what other people say insulting and amusing in equal measure. Since when is disagreeing with someone when they're wrong and pointing out the faulty logic and inaccuracies in their posts 'policing'?

Nice recap, but nothing to do with my interjection.

Arguing against the theory behind proposed changes, that's fine, that's discussion. Pointing out that the changes aren't going to happen, also fine, that's pragmatism. But using the fact that the changes aren't going to happen as part of your argument against them, that's silly. Your argument in favour of autokill is equally 'bootless' if you believe nothing will change. You level that charge against them, I turn it back on you. Recapped.

You're the only one discussing people as far as I can see. But what would I know, I'm just a flame war starting troll trying to police the forums.

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

Please, let's get this discussion back on-topic.

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

Are you aware that by accusing the people who are against the current autokill mechanism of being mindless SC proponents, and by saying things like "using the versimilitude gripe as a way of attacking the turn limit", you already stand on the wrong side of trolling?

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

I'm assuming we were posting at the same time, Rookierookie. But again, please return to the topic so I don't have to close this down.

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

AutoKill is a game function which has an extreme result which is not verisimilitude which was explained extremely well by Graeme Dice. Leaving the AutoKill would be like watching the move "Clash of the Titans" yet they kill the Kraken simply by having too many crippled units which could not flee the shore thus the Kraken is killed because it ran out of time. When I'm playing a game if some almighty powerful Kraken exists as seen within the movie... I don't want it killed because it ran out of time when logically it should be allowed to retreat and return another day. I can see the hero returning with the medusa head only for some villager to say, "Oh we killed the kraken because the mighty beast simply ran out of time trying to kill all the illusions some mages casted by the shore. No weapons could pierce it, no spells could harm it... the beast simply died due to taking too long to kill the illusions."

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

My computer was KIA recently but, in the days before, I had noticed an up-tick of battle replays that didn't match-up in SP. None of the battles had lasted long enough for autokills to happen.

I noticed somebody pointed out that mods contribute to this, is it related to the number of mods or their size? I had CBM, CPCS, Bogarus Scout, and 3 nation mods enabled at the time. Would there be less problems if I combined them?

Does berserking units contribute? Every battle with a discrepancy had berserked units but not every battle with berserked units had a discrepancy.

It happened a lot more UW; maybe it was because I started UW? I moved onto land very early and was having the same problems but, it seemed, noticeably less so.

Finally, maybe there was no up-tick and I was just looking for it?

Re: Why do my berserk commanders disappear after winning fights
 

I suspect its the latter. Late game, I seem to get this error in virtually every game.