Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

Maybe, the differences are not all that big. Pbat G (Arm Bn Gotland) was somewhat larger at first - as it was a hybrid organisation, basically they added two tank companies to the existing infantry organisation along with the older APCs. It also fielded an extra infantry platoon carried in trucks - a unit that did not exit in equivelent units on the mainland.

Pbat G and and other units on Gotland used some older kit longer than on the mainland...

...I wonder if it's easier to add an information text. That way not much needs to be added, most formations already exist in the game as it is.

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

Assuming people can find, and bother to read, the info text that sounds like the best bet.

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

You can add text information that show up in the purchase screen - although I think many players will use all kinds of "creative" formation mixes if given the chance, regardless of what some notes say..., especially in PBEM where everyone seems to always play with top kit.

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

- Local Defence Units -

During the Cold War Sweden organised a large number of units for defence of important objectives or areas.

In MBT terms these units would be unsexy - they had older equipment, limted moblility and were staffed with older conscripts - but they made up more than half of the overall infantry strength, and in case of war they were likely to be the units first into action.

I was thinking of using the various Guards classes for these type of units, although they were not Guards in the international meaning. Might be confusing, but these classes are largely untapped in the OOB and I'm going to need all the others as Sweden in the 1980s had several other infantry organisations in use at the same time...

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

take a look at swede the photo used for unit 51 in 9.1.................

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

9,1 is out? Wow, I had missed that...!
Nice picture, btw... :)

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

Yep. I didn't know it at the time but I'm told I was having a heart attack when I was building the x.0 installers ( I WAS feeling a bit odd at the time) and the day after I built the x.1 installers I had a stroke . Andy had a heart attack and triple bypass about 5 years ago and Fred Chlanda had a stroke around 1999. Apparently modding SP is bad for your health. :re:

Don

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

It's definite that it's bad for your sanity.

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

I can relate...

I don't know how many times I've restarted this little project..., hard to get it right...

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

- Post Cold War Special Forces -

After the Cold War Sweden organised a new type of Special Forces. There had been light infantry formations before, but they were more intended to function in a WW3 environment and were not suited to the needs in the 1990s.

SSG ("Special Protection Group") was established in 1994. Little about this unit was known, most is secret. It was however staffed by officers only (unusual for the Swedish conscript defence force) and it was used on operations in Africa (Op Artemis, Congo) and Afghanistan (ISAF). In merged with another SF unit - the SIG - in 2011 and was renamed SOG.

SIG ("Special Intel Group") was established in 2007 and was originally established as the FJS IK ("Parachute School Action Company"). This unit had a stronger focus on intel gathering (traditionally the role of the Swedish parachute units). In 2011 it was merged with the SSG and renamed SOG.

SOG ("Special Operations Group") Was established in 2011 and is still in use.

Little is known about the actual size and organisation of this formation. Supposedly they operate in 4 man groups ("patrols") - I plan to copy simlar SF units from other OOBs.

The SOG is supposed to cover a bunch of missions that fall outside the scope of the game - but a few capabilities they are meant to bring are of the kind that could motivate their inclusion in the OOB.

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

Could any of these photos be of use in the game?

19th Regiment, early 1960s. Not supersexy maybe, but they have no copyright problems as they come from my family...



http://40.media.tumblr.com/a8f4085e6...igto1_1280.jpg

http://40.media.tumblr.com/a0be631a0...igto2_1280.jpg

http://41.media.tumblr.com/2ac9125c7...igto3_1280.jpg

http://40.media.tumblr.com/19ad9c328...igto4_1280.jpg

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

I will find a place for them. Already have the RR done........what unit would that be?? I don't think it's in the OOB's

Don

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

The photos are from my dad's and possibly my uncles recruit service with I 19, aka Norrbotten Regiment or 19th Infantry Regiment.

(In Sweden a "Regiment" is a traning depot. Back then the 19th organised company and battalion size infantry units for the Norrbotten Brigade a unit meant to meet the Red Advance coming through northern Finland. The Brigade was also known as the 19th Infantry Brigade, later 19th Arctic Brigade, and when I was there in the mid 90s it was known as Mechanized Brigade 19, the brigade was disbanded 2004 but I 19 still exists...)

I figure a photo or two could be used for regular infantry around the 50s, 60s and 70s, should there be a need for some variation. The anti tank piece already has better pictures in the game, IMHO.

I threw them up here only because they have no copyright issues. Use if wanted, or leave them.

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

I meant what unit in the game OOB's is that RR.... Is it the 90mm Pvpj 1110 ??

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

Going through that OOB looking for the RR I noticed the IKV assualt guns and I was SURE I had redone those a year or two back but I can't find them....weird how the mind plays memory tricks sometimes. I distinctly remember finding a primo top view to work from and I can clearly picture the Icon but so far no luck finding it

Don

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

Yep...

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

Regarding engineers in various OOBs (both games) - they sometimes, but seldom, exist in company formations - is there a reason for this?

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

How does..... because the guy who wrote the OOB didn't set them up that way....... ?

If you have a company structure, I'll put them in but from my POV if there are no engineers in companies maybe it's because the Swedes don't use them that way

As for other nations.... the same thing applies but it may also be that "engineers" in many armies do engineering more than combat assault... and for that task buying by platoons works for most players

It has only ever been brought up once in 2 decades....and that was today:D

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

IDK about.."they sometimes, but seldom, exist in company formations"

that's a bit more than "seldom"

MBT
NationName NationID formname formtype
Poland 2 Mot Engineer Co 2
Israel 4 Arm'd Eng Grp 2
Israel 4 Arm'd Eng Grp 2
Iran 10 Engineer Co 2
Iran 10 Engineer Co 2
China 14 Engineer Co 2
China 14 Engineer Co + 2
Gulf States 16 Engineer Co 2
Iraq 17 ILAV Eng Co 2
South Vietnam 24 Engineer Co 2
Canada 30 Mech Eng Coy+ 2
Canada 30 Motor Eng Coy 2
Canada 30 Mech Eng Coy 2
Italy 34 Mot Engineer Co 2
Italy 34 Mech Eng Co 2
Green 42 Engineer Co 2
Germany 44 Armour Engr Co 2
Germany 44 Armour Engr Co 2
Germany 44 MRV Engr Kp 2
Argentina 45 Engineer Co 2
Cyprus 47 Mech Eng Co 2
Cyprus 47 Engineer Co 2
Brazil 48 Engineer Co 2
Cuba 49 Engineer Co 2
Cuba 49 Mot Engineer Co 2
Cuba 49 Mech Eng Co 2
Switzerland 53 Mot Engineer Co 2
Angola 56 Engineer Co 2
Chile 59 Engineer Co 2
Nigeria 61 Engineer Co 2
Saudi Arabia 64 Engineer Co 2
Sudan 67 Engineer Co 2
Indonesia 71 Engineer Co 2
South Yemen 76 Engineer Co 2
Yemen 77 Engineer Co 2
Eritrea 78 Engineer Co 2
UN 80 Engineer Co 2
Ecuador 82 Engineer Co 2
El Salvador 83 Engineer Co 2
Nicaragua 84 Engineer Co 2
Peru 85 Engineer Co 2
Uganda 90 Engineer Co 2
Uruguay 91 Engineer Co 2
Paraguay 92 Engineer Co 2


WW2
NationName NationID formname formtype
France 6 Sec Engins Inf 2
France 6 Sec Eng Chass 2
Vichy France 8 Sec Eng Chass 2
Soviet Union 11 Mot Engineer Co 2
Soviet Union 11 Engineer Co 2
USA 12 Cbt Eng Co 2
USA 12 Armd Eng Co 2
Hungary 38 Engineer Co 2
Romania 39 Engineer Co 2
Romania 39 Engineer Co 2
Romania 39 Engineer Co 2
Thailand 41 Engineer Co 2

and that's just the ones with 'eng ' in their title so the German SturmPionierKp isn't on that list

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

There are so many (some with slight differences) I get a headache from just trying to piece them together. Some might be relevant for the game, many with construction type assignments are not.

I thought maybe it was a question of balance, a way to reduce OOB clutter, or a sort of game decision on companies that can be expected to be divided up on operations...

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

Nope.....they were added or not based on who wrote the OOB and more importantly....who mentioned that whatever nation is missing them...like I said why there aren't engineer coys in every OOB is a matter of who wrote it and if they weren't included and still aren't included then nobody mentioned they are missing and would be useful.

But I'm betting there are more in the game than show up in those two lists

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

Heh, that's more than I would have guessed.

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

If you want them in the Swede OOB I can guess they are organised like normal infantry .... but I'm guessing most players pick a plt here and there otherwise this would have come up before now

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

In the future maybe, I'm tinkering with a custom OOB for my own use but I have plenty of research to do still..., but I'd like to keep it in line with the others in the OOB. Any guidlines on anti-tank mines as a close assault weapon for engineer squads?


I'm pretty sure most players buy a platoon here and there for assault missions, when they need to clear mines..., for anything else regular infantry is better...

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

Engineers are really only relevant in the assault scenario for obstacle removal. A few may be handy if the opposition regularly uses cluster mines or bomblets in other battle types, but really they are a specific tool you only take out of the toolbox in the assault for most folks.

Plus they are usually lacking in infantry ranged combat weapons - often no LMG, and with SMG as a primary weapon. Since engineering skills cost points then if armed as a rifle section then more expensive than the riflemen, especially if no obstacles need clearance.

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

You are right, but I sometimes like to use less capable/less cost efficient forces - not particulary smart I guss, but it can be fun.

Normally I just buy an infantry company, keep the HQ and delete the rifle platoons, buy engineers instead and use the cross attach screen...

What about adding uncommon or geograpically limited infantry/armour type formations to the MISC purchase screen?

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

Why would we do that add yet more stuff to maintain (and for rivet-counters to nitpick about) if there was next to no chance anyone actually would use it?

If you have some weird thing you regularly use - then make yourself a new formation in your own custom OOB, its not that difficult to do!. Its why I created Mobhack after all.

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

The stock OOB is good enough.

I'm building my own for fun - only it's giving me gray hair.
I can use some advice - things like vehicle stats, unit pricing, general platoon organisation...

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

Unit pricing comes from the cost calc so after you are done ( or while you are working on it from time to time ) run the OOB cost calculator for that OOB and it will give you a unit cost based on all the same criteria used for all the OOB's

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

Don,

The MISC screen - are there any drawbacks to placing infantry/armour formations there?

Infantry leaders will still get infantry stats?

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

The misc screen has no effect other than where its shown for buying. Its used for odds and ends, like trucks and ammo carriers but can have anything else deemed to be rare like experimental tank formations or whatever.

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

Swedish APCs:

Swedish defence forces (Försvarsmakten) finally have informative pages about the equipment.

One thing I noticed is that the Patria APCs (XA-180, Patgb 203A, Ptgb 360 AMV) all have a carry capacity of 12 each where as Försvarsmakten lists 3 crew (driver, commander and gunner) and 7 (203A) or 8 (360 AMV) troops to transport[1][2]. However the formations where these are used would need adjusting as well because the formations are built on the capacity of 12 passengers / vehicle. The carry capacity issue is not included in the modifications below.

Patgb 360 AMV
The main thing however is the Patgb 360 AMV weapons:
Försvarsmakten lists following options:
Weapons: Weapons station 01 (Kongsberg Protector) with 7.62mm MG or 12.7 mm HMG or 40mm AGL
Vehicle is equipped with Weapons station 01, where different weapons can be attached. Usual one is the heavy machine gun model 88 (KSP 88). KSP 88 has caliber 12.7mm. Station's sensors are high tech and have both day and night scopes.

As far as I have been able to investigate, the turret is the same version or newer than the one in Finnish Patria 360 AMV. The numbers below are copied from Finnish version.
Listed weight [1] is 28-30 tons.

MODIFY
Unit 067 - Patgb 360 AMV
Stabiliser: 5
Fire control: 20
Range finder: 22
Weight: 28

Should weapon 051 be made autocannon class or copied to one with that class as 360 AMV can target helicopters? (Griffon 8100TD hovercraft is the only other vehicle using that weapon)

ADD
Copy of unit 067 - Patgb 360 AMV
Radio: 91
Weapon 1: 021 - 40mm Mk19 GL
Stabiliser: 5
Fire control: 20
Range finder: 22
Weight: 28

ADD
Copy of unit 067 - Patgb 360 AMV
Radio: 91
Weapon 1: 122 - Ksp 58 CMG
Stabiliser: 5
Fire control: 20
Range finder: 22
Weight: 28

Ksp90 (SAW) may also be added but I can't see much added value in the game for including that.

REMOVE
Unit 070 - AMV Patria IFV
Unit 354 - AMV Patria TOW
AFAIK these 30mm autocannon versions are only prototypes offered to Sweden, not purchased. No references anywhere on Swedish military pages.


About RWS:[2]
Patgb 203 B
An upgrade from Patgb 203 A[3]
Should have VIRSS x 2[4]
Listed weigth is 18.5-23 tons[4]

MODIFY: 062 - Patgb 203 A
End date: 12/119
EW: 4
Weight: 19

ADD: Patgb 203 B, three versions
Copy of unit 062 - Patgb 203 A
Start date: 1/117
Radio: 90
Vision: 40
Weapon 1: 021 - 40mm Mk19 GL
or
Weapon 1: 051 - 12.7mm M2HB HMG
or
Weapon 1: 122 - Ksp 58 CMG
Stabiliser: 5
Fire control: 20
Range finder: 22
Weight: 19

[1]https://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/information-och-fakta/materiel-och-teknik/mark/pansarterrangbil-360/
[2]https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:541327/FULLTEXT01.pdf p. 24
[3]http://soff.se/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/150203-Arm%C3%A9.pdf p. 64-66
[4]https://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/information-och-fakta/materiel-och-teknik/mark/pansarterrangbil-203-a/

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

Been doing some work on my own OOB66.

I'd like some suggestions on a small problem I have:

Back in the day (early 1960s) there was a local defence battalion organisation called Cykelskyttebataljon 61 ("Bicyle Rifle Bn 61").

The rifle company HQ section of this organisation included a 'sharpshooter patrol' that doubled as a 'observation patrol'. Normally Forward Observers in Sweden are termed E-ledare, so I'm guessing this sharpshooter/observation patrol was more of a recon asset.

It was 4 man strong.

I thought I would make a 4 man recon team to represent this type of unit. What would be a resonable weapon configuration/ammo loadout for such a unit be? Also how many points should such a unit cost?

I don't know exaclty what type of weapons, number of scopes etc they would have had. The troops would have been older conscripts with older kit...

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

my guess would be rifle or SMG with 60 HE, Hand grenade 8 (2 each), and perhaps sniper rifle with 30 rounds.


As for points, always best to let the OOB Cost Calculator Utility do it's thing and come up with a point cost.

Re: OOB 066 Sweden [WIP]
 

ALWAYS run the OOB through the points calculator after creating units. It's the only way to get a consistent unit cost