Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

Map is 90% complete, but someone found out that one of their fort locations wasn't going to work out how they wanted, so I'm waiting on an update. Once I hear back from this person and get a chance to work on the map again it will be done fairly quickly.

Edit: By the way valerius, I notice in the OP that you've said all magic sites will be known, but I don't see any lines in either map file to that effect. Did you want me to do that?

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

No need; I gave every site listed in Edi's db a level of either 0 (allowed sites) or 5 (banned sites) in my modified CBM so just owning the province will reveal whatever sites the game places there randomly. All the cap provinces have also had their starting gem incomes doubled. Thanks for checking, though.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

Oh! In the .dm. Right, silly of me not to have checked that :P

I haven't gotten that update yet, so unfortunately the map is going to have to wait until afternoon. Sorry about that. I can't say when I'm likely to have the time to finish. But I am pretty confident it will be out tomorrow.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

No problem; thanks for your help! We should have plenty of action soon enough. :)

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

I just checked with rdonj and he's still waiting for a change in fort location from one player. Please send him this info ASAP so he can finalize the map and then we can get started.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

Good news; rdonj has received the final fort location info he was waiting for and can now finish work on the map. Thanks everyone for your patience (and especially rdonj for your efforts). Hopefully everyone's had plenty of time to test their builds and once I setup the game on the llamaserver we can get a quick start.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

We should also agree to a policy regarding stealth movement in the first two turns. Only two nations have recruitable stealth units (and only mine lives by them) but anyone can take a stealthy pretender or prophetize a scout. Whether a battle is fought or not, going for a dom kill is an attack. Also, if the stealthy unit is discovered it forces a battle, thereby violating the two turn NAP. So I think the best policy is to say only non-prophetized scouts can move into an opponent's territory the first two turns. If you all disagree we can change that policy but I think it's important everyone is operating under the same set of assumptions.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

For the record most of the work I have to do now is correcting some mistake I made earlier in the mapmapking process that has ulm being a mictlanese domain :P

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

Typical Mictlan bless rush. :)


A couple of things people should be aware of when the game starts:

* Aside from your capitol none of your starting provinces will have PD. You'll want to put buying PD (or not) on your turn 1 checklist of things to do.

* Also, while I'm sure everyone will check their gem income please also check each of your magic sites. If I missed a site that allows a bonus or recruitable units we can just go on the honor system and not use those things but if I missed a site that has a deleterious effect we have more of a problem (especially if it's a fort province). Related to that, thanks for the testing LDiCesare. I think the only outstanding problem we have is the Brigand Lair. I'm going to leave that in since the unrest isn't too bad of a problem and I think it's less hassle for everyone not to have to download another version of the mod (but if there's a second game I'll remove useless sites like that).

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

Caelum agrees to no stealthy movements other than from a non preacher scout. But I think it would be easier to just ban all tresspassings whether stealthy or not. If I understand correctly, the NAP is no attack orders until turn 3, which means attacks will be witnessed on turn 4. We can do the same thing for stealthy units, you can script them to move into enemy lands on turn 3 and make everything simpler. Otherwise we may have to cover all the possible ways stealthy attacks can occur, including unrest causing scout with bane venom charm, idols, etc. To be complete, we should also include no remote spells can be cast until turn 3, which means their effect will be seen only on turn 4.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

Agree with Lolomo.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

LoloMo, your understanding about when attacks can be launched is correct. And just so there is no confusion I will post in the thread on the turn attack orders can be issued.

I agree with your point regarding scouts with items (I hadn't considered that one).

I'm also fine with no movement at all (even for scouts) into enemy territory before turn 3 but when you say no remote spells do you mean no hostile spells or no scrying spells either?

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

I think there's two choices:

1) No spells (including scrying) cast at or movement into enemy territory before turn 3

2) Only scrying spells cast or unequipped scouts enter enemy territory before turn 3.

How about we make things simple and just go with the first option (which is what I think you meant anyway)?

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

yup, let's just go with option 1 to make everything simple :)

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

Okay, I've just finished running a test game and everything looks good. I've uploaded the map to the llamaserver now... it's called ValerianGlory. With any luck I haven't stupidly missed anything! Good luck to you all.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

Thanks rdonj!

The game is called ThreeFort and is ready to accept pretenders. Note that the only mod you need active when creating your pretender is the ThreeFort mod since it includes CBM.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

Do we need to download the map from somewhere? There's no download link on llamaserver.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

No need; you already have the tga file from the first post in the thread and only rdonj and now the llamaserver have the .map file. As players we don't actually need this file as long as we have the correct map graphic. The nice thing about this is that instructions can be placed in the .map file that are not known to the players.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

thanks for clarifying this, I thought we needed the .map. I'm happy to see we can start slaughtering, err converting, each other soon.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

Whoops, I had totally forgotten this was no diplo! Please disregard any PMs you may or may not have received from me, and I'll desist from writing more.

Edit: Nothing was said that wasn't immediately obvious.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

Hmm, well I guess just flip a coin over who you attack. That way if you offered a NAP to someone they won't know if circumstances have changed. :)

I'll also mention again to check your PD since despite my reminder I forgot to do so before sending my turn. :rolleyes: Other than that, I don't see any problematic magic sites in my provinces so hopefully that's the case all around.

I hope everyone enjoys the game!

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

Just to clarify, we are not allowed to recruit any indy commander or troop at all, even if they are available for 800 resources each? Even barbarian commanders, indy scouts, or indy priests? This would mean the only recruitment possible will be from the 3 forts, and should be the type of units that can be recruited in the capital.

Also I'm assuming units resulting from lucky events are allowed?

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

Yes, that is correct - no indie recruitment at all. All units should be national units from your three forts and any additional forts you conquer. Cap only troops should only be available in your cap. The other forts should only have the units available that your nation can normally recruit outside of your capitol. So, if you are seeing cap only units available outside your cap that's a bug and they shouldn't be recruited there.

I think units from lucky events are ok since they can be difficult to get rid of and you'll have to pay upkeep on them.

Important note, though: if you get a free fort from a lucky event it must be torn down!

Also, please remember: no mercenary recruitment.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

I just realised graphs are on. They should probably be off in this kind of game imo. Still, I don't think they're going to be very useful but they do give some info.
And the HoF too, of course...

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

Hmm, yes the HoF does indicate a certain player is an imbecile... :doh:

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

As mentioned in the game description, hosting has been changed to 48 hours. We may well not need the time since we've been moving at a good pace and armies are smaller than I thought they might be at this point, but still I did say it would switch at turn 10.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

There was a glitch with the llamaserver and the ThreeFort game has disappeared. As soon as he gets a chance llama will restore the files. I think all the turns were in so I expect it will host once it is restored.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

Not sure if this is a bug or just a result of the game settings, but twice or thrice already, a lucky event saying I received a magic item did not show up in the lab. I was forging on the same turn, don't know if this affected it. I have not yet received any item from any lucky event. No big deal, just wanted to mention it in case some of you are experiencing the same thing.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

I've long suspected not all of those events that gave items worked. But I, too, am usually forging when i get those messages, and unless something jumps out at me its hard to tell.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

I haven't gotten any items from lucky events this game. I have to admit I'm so used to receiving poor items that I sometimes forget to even check what I received when I get that message. You can imagine how surprised I was one game to discover a ring of wizardry in my treasury. :)

But I can't think of anything in the game settings that would cause this so perhaps it's like Squirrelloid says.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

Just great. :(

Again, my pretender decides to cast some fatique-heavy crap instead of self-buff...

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

I take it your pretender ignored the script? Usually buffs are followed by the AI. Any chance you had something like Breath of Winter scripted with non-cold immune units nearby so the AI ignored it?

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

Content deleted - sending a PM to nooblis instead.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

In case another game with similar settings is started someday, I'd suggest removing water provinces altogether, as one of the 5 nations has no access to it so didn't have the opporunity to go there, which put them at a slight disadvantage.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

5 nations seems like an unfortunate number anyway, since one of them is just sitting there are letting another one kill a neighbor while the 4th and 5th work on mutual annihilation.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

I did have some concern about the water provinces and as I recall tried to give the starting position without access some additional terrain types to give them a slightly higher starting gem income. But it would have been better to give that position more than I did. I also figured the water provinces would end up being fought over more than has been the case.

I was hoping for 6 nations and I think it would have helped the situation but of course it's still possible that four nations would square off and two would end up at peace, building their strength.

In retrospect, I think I should have created a game to test the core idea of the changes to spells instead of changing so many things at once. I like the idea of a game where magic doesn't proceed past the mid-game. A game where it doesn't end up being all about SCs and master enslave and where national troops and mages have a role to play throughout. Perhaps if I had just focused on this there would have been more interest in the game.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

I think the idea is quite solid and a second game of this type would get more players.

Regarding the water provinces, the map was handed out for perusal before the game started and which nation starts where was unknown, so any disadvantage the nation with out direct access to the water province is no more or else than the disadvantage another nation has for having less gem income or less gem income of the type that is useful to him. Regarding fighting for the water provinces, I'm sure there'll be more of that, we're barely two weeks into the game after all. Plus with easy access to flying items and teleport spells, I don't see why any nation would have no access to the water provinces and experience the subsequent retaliation :p

Regarding the number of players, it doesn't matter how many players a game has, some will be at peace, some will be annihilating each other, some will be winning, some will be losing, and some will be fighting multiple opponents at the same time! :p

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

I'll just say I'm glad I'm not next to the Mictlan hordes, nor does it appear I will be in the near future.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

Regarding items failing to appear, I think I've figured out why *all* such events are failing. Items are probably generated by tier and then by specific item. All of the items are now in Item0, so any attempts to generate something from Item1, Item2, or Item3 results in no item. Yay law of unintended consequences.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

That's it! Nice catch!

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Design pretenders
 

It could be interesting to take some unique items (probably the less powerful ones) and set them to Constr. levels 2, 4 and 6 with a maximum forge cost (65 gems in both primary and secondary paths). This would make it impractical to forge them but provide some magic items at those levels for lucky events - items that normally wouldn't be attainable with these game settings.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Running
 

I'm finding this extraordinarily boring.
Forts which never get breached despite sending hordes of besiegers, even with magic items to help, make for a wholly uninteresting game.
I certainly played badly, but still, I'd rather quit, frankly. I'll keep playing because it'd be unfair to other players, but if a lurker wants to see what such a game looks like or if other players find this dull, at least they'll know.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Running
 

Sorry you aren't enjoying the game. It's good you mentioned it, though. More than once I've been in games that people weren't enjoying and once one person mentioned something the others spoke up.

I know my chain casting of call of the winds has been boring but I didn't think I had any chance to beat you and wanted to see what Caelum would decide to do before risking what I had left on a major battle.

Also, it was only recently that you took over all my provinces and put all my forts under siege - up until that point I had the gold and gem income from those provinces and was actually still able to recruit despite my capitol being under siege. I think if you had done that earlier I couldn't have defended all of those castles and they would have started falling.

Thanks for sticking it out, though. On that note, Agartha staled this turn so I'll PM NooBliss.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Running
 

I'm quite enjoying this game, and don't seem to have encountered Mictlan's problems sieging forts :p I will still probably enjoy the game even when Bandar Log eventually beats my ***! :p

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Running
 

I think you overestimate my chances!

Ok, maybe not, but Caelum certainly looks scary over there. Poor Mictlan!

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Running
 

Considering all my armies were busy in Eriu, I couldn't defend against Caelum. And I can't spam Call of the Winds or Seeking arrow.
I also think Bandar Log is taking its time to take Agartha forts.
I think I totally misunderstood the strategies needed for this setting. I thought it was about national troops when it's actually all about national mages.
And damn the eater of the dead, too.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Running
 

I see your point. With all those spells available from turn 1, mages can immediately do considerable damage (and of course there's little reason to keep them in the lab anyway).

But I will say, I've really come to dislike your D9 bless. I much prefer Mictlan with an F9 bless. Give your thug/SC some fire resistance and decent protection and they're ready to go to work against Mictlan. With that D9 bless there's so many MR rolls to deal with that some fail - which is real threat to low HP units.

Which leads me to the Eater of the Dead. :) I'd never summoned it before and was just looking for something tough to send against your sacreds. I'm happy with it so far, considering it's the only reason I still have that castle, and can report that after its first battle it's considerably stronger. Hopefully I can keep control of it for a while and not have it attack me...

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Running
 

Oh my! Eater of the Dead is Scary! Mictlan slaves will make good munching, he'll grow quite fast!

BTW, I'll be out of the country July 7-9, wed to Friday. I'll send in this turn in time, and will try to get the next turn in before I leave if I can, but after that I may need a 48 hour extension. Thanks!

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Running
 

i just put most of Agartha's forts under siege, and the one i've been sieging for awhile is his cave fort capital with a bunch of stuff in it, so who knows how long that will take... It'll probably be the last of the three i breach.

Re: ThreeFort - Experimental game - Running
 

Speaking of Agartha. I was absolutely going to give a last stand fight, but my fully equipped Marble Oracle and some items for second thug disappeared. As simple as that, I dont have him anymore. So, I can do absolutely nothing now. Summoning crap just to prolong siege for Squirrelloid (without any hope to give a good fight afterwards) is, imho, unsportsmanlike, so I will just go AI if nobody minds.

Overall, this game format is interesting, but I sort of underestimated just how much of impact it will have. Namely, that Bandar Log will have access to arrow fend immediately, making bladewind (and thus my mages) nearly helpless. :) Well played.