Re: Various questions
 

:o I feel bad that you had to do testing on my behalf. With that said thanks for the data, and that I'd happily do the data-gathering in the future on my own question if it was raised to me that no one had answer on hand :D

Re: Various questions
 

Hmmm could there also be a 3L cap limit for a given province? E.g. it was coded in that a province can go higher then 3L, much like how a summoner(20+) starspawn priest for the void gate was never forseen thus actually never summoning much as very high level summoner stat was never coded for.

I'll test a game with 2L + Lof, vs 2L, vs 1L + Lof + fb I think.

Edit: I just noticed your test setting using 3G3L. Does 3 growth scale actually impact crossbreed / transformation / void gate like the luck scale?

Re: Various questions
 

Typo above, correction:

" It was never coded in that a province can go higher then +3 luck "

Re: Various questions
 

The issue will be that your LoF will increase the luck in the province (I think). Therefore you will see an effect. Still worth doing.

I don't have empirical evidence on the growth - but yes it seemed to me that with Growth 3 Luck 3 I was getting one super, 3 improved and the remainder trash with crossbreeding.

Re: Various questions
 

I'll do test games this weekend of these scenarios to add to your data:

0 neutral scales (LA R'yleth)
3 Luck (LA R'yleth)
3 Luck 3 Growth (LA R'yleth)

1 Luck (MA R'yleth)
1 Luck 3 growth (MA R'yleth)
1 Luck + Firebird (MA R'yleth)
1 Luck + LoF + Firebird (Any blood nation)

Spells to be tested are:
Advanced crossbreeding
Void gate summons, only summoner(3) will be used.

Questions to be tested:
-Void gate / crossbreed affected by luck / growth / Firebird/Lof?
-LA Ryleth non-cap spawns affected by luck or growth?

Thanks again for your help so far!

Re: Various questions
 

The Lady of Luck does not increase luck scale. She provides a separate bonus percentage to good events. Llamabeast's EGDM Firebird provides the same bonus, presumably, since it's copystatted. The Bogarusian firebird provides a small bonus to the same effect. I can say that with > 100 Bogarusian firebirds in a province, it did not seem to discernibly improve crossbreeding effects. However, terrain (apparently) seems to have an effect, and I would recommend casting it in mountains or wastes vs. plains. That could just be observer bias, though, since after I seemed to notice it, I did all my castings there.

Re: Various questions
 

Interesting! That's really good stuff and Base on your observation together with CP's data, I think we can lay the LoF / Firebird effect on void gate / crossbreed to rest and conclude it has no effect in that regards.

That's gonna shave off 4 out of 7 scenarios I had to test :bow:

I now have 4 scenarios to test:
(LA R'yleth)
0 neutral scales
3 Luck
3 Luck 3 Growth
3 Luck 3 Growth 3 magic

All cross-breeding will be performed 50% in waste, 50% in farm lands.

I think we can say that luck affects void gate + cross breed. Now I will test whether growth and magic does as well!

Re: Various questions
 

I did a lot of testing on terrain with transformation, and some testing on crossbreeding.

It clearly makes a difference on transformation. On crossbreeding I prefer swamps.

Re: Various questions
 

Ok.. Some counter intuitive results.

With 350 odd casts, Order3/cold3 gave twice as many steller results as Turmoil3/heat3

The freak lord was also on the losing side of that equation.
There were no variations that I can ascribe to anything other than chance across the terrains of wood, waste, and mountain.

Also, I don't know if its documented in the manual.. but starving seems to increase province unrest....

Re: Various questions
 

Hm. How many are we talking in terms of raw numbers?

Re: Various questions
 

66 casts for each nation of crossbreeding yielded 13 and 19 supers.

66 casts of improved cross breeding yielded 66 and 113 supers for improved crossbreeding.


However, I must say that I did not check every turn, I just hosted a bunch of turns, using M to continuously cast. Checked every 30 or so to make sure there was still a lab etc.

Re: Various questions
 

I'm halfway through scenario one, manually replacing void summon priest when they die/lost in Time space/ fumble minded/ lvl up in summoning is taking a toll XD.

Meanwhile I'd like to suck various brains some more:

-if ritual of return is cast beforehand on a slave, will he activate returning when fatigue damage at 200+ begins? The spell should still be cast?

-When in communion, master casting gem spells does not use gems? Even if it knocks out your slaves/masters? Is there an AI decision point determining when the master use or not use gems?

-Does ritual of return trigger when twist fate activates, or only when something takes damage?

Re: Various questions
 

Were there enough supplies to avoid starvation issues? It's an interesting result, and it'd be nice to rule out things like low-hp supers starving.

Re: Various questions
 

I think we need a guide to cross-breeding. Has someone laid out how terrain interacts with it somewhere?

Re: Various questions
 

Yes we do need a guide on cross-breeding.

Void gate summon and transformation would be a bonus too. The title of the guide could be suitably amusing given the subject matter.

search didn't turn up anything other then snippets here and there, nothing more informative then what's here already.

I'd be happy to contribute data. I'll be completely a scenario or two this weekend

Re: Various questions
 

Adding another ongoing question:

If you have a S9 bless, and you have mage wearing shrouds casting spells into enemy domes. Are you immune to those domes retaliation effect (even though it still blocks your spells)? I assume that this does not apply to mind hunt (you still get feeble minded)

Re: Various questions
 

That's a good question. Though I've not tested that, it seems a reasonable assumption to make - S9 shrouds protect against things like Seeking Arrow, after all.

Re: Various questions
 

agreed, I'd just rather not find out in a MP game :p

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I use ritual of returning in communions - its part of what I keep meaning to include in a guide.

You can do something like

Master A.
CM RoR Big Spell 1, Trigger Spell 2.. Spell

Slave B
CS
Slave C
CS
Slave D
CS
Slave E

Mast B
CM
Slave F
Hold Hold Hold CS
Slave G
Hold Hold Hold CS
Slave H
Hold Hold Hold CS
Slave I
Hold Hold Hold CS

You stagger your CS so that your entire communion doesn't get exhausted by the first spell (only the first half). You can then trigger your exhausted slaves to return home via the trigger spell.

Things that are not covered in the current guides are:
Staggered communions,
Proper use of Relief type spells. Jomon's invigorate spell, and mans spell songs are WAY stronger than commonly considered.

Staggered communions can also mean you deliberately kill a couple of communion slaves to prevent exhaustion ni the rest.

Re: Various questions
 

I periodically moved the trash off to make sure supers did not starve.

However, my impression was that they weren't starving regardless; most have regen.

Re: Various questions
 

Terrain does not affect crossbreeding. It does affect transformation.

CB and ICB are affected by ORDER (confirmed) luck (in spell description) and growth (not verified).

Re: Various questions
 

I only seem to get more confused :D, so a Order 3 luck 3 would result in the best crossbreeding hmmm... Then a turmoil 3 actually hurt the crossbreeding results, maybe a balancing mechanic since order/misf and turmoil/luck always goes together?

I'm thinking if order/turmoil scale affects it, it would make a lot of sense if magic/drain scale does also.

What terrain transformation seem to result in better variants by the way? Then again i guess that's subjective, stealth animals, flying monkey, chimeras ...etc all have their good points hmmm....

For void gate, my incomplete testing so far seem to be showing that # of spawns to be D6 not open, with inconclusive evidence that lower numbers are more common. The exception is Vastness, which has spawned in singlets every time I got it. I'll post the full result over the weekend.

Re: Various questions
 

oh.. somewhere I saw a table on the frequency of void summons.
I don't remember it, final. While I like void summoning, I don't view it as a winning strategy.

again, on crossbreeding, terrain has no effect. There are 8 or 10 things that are obviously super. They all appear, regardless of terrain.

Re: Various questions
 

It may not be a super winning strategy, but its a factor in choosing scales, if the impact happen to be quite significant on types spawned it may tip the balance of decision btween Turmoil/luck vs order/misf.

And for all your help / data, I'll share with you one of my favorite void spawn that I think many overlook (and it is also a reason why I obsess with void gate in addition to the fact that it's just cool), I've PMed it to you, I'll post it to the public once I'm done with my current MP game playing as MA R'yleth :D I just hope I get it so I can use it...

Also LA R'yleth spawns void monsters in all their province with dominion, so the impact for LA R is potentially significant if you can make more void monsters spawn (also important long term when you loss your population and have no income). I've played LA once with luck scale and enjoyed getting random batchs of void monsters.

Re: Various questions
 

yeah.. I don't think luck affect void summons. it might affect La-R void spawns.

I always find the immovable spawns that consume food to be pain in the ###.

As part of the Balance mod, someday, I'm going to mod all LA-R monsters to be amphibious and movable to lessen a little bit the la-r micro managament hell. I may or may not subtract a hp or two to balance it out.