Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

I got a crappy starting position. I hope we start over. :D

Of course, if Tao is having technical difficulties, then I'm all in favor of waiting for him. But if he's stopped communicating...

So I guess we leave the ball in your court, Valerius? If you hear from him and he still can play, then we start over. Or if he's not playing then we find a sub. Hmm. Maybe the person playing Caelum. :p

Thanks for helping us with this, Valerius.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

This is the worst part about restarting - someone usually ends up with a worse start position than they had the first time around. But I think we're going to have to do that since, as you noted, the mystery Caelum player has sent in a turn but not responded to my question of whether they are TaoCuathon.

I'll wait a few more minutes, then put the game back at "waiting for pretenders" (and *turn off* the autostart to avoid this happening again).

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

He was last on the forum under twelve hours ago and his last PM to me wasn't much longer ago than that so I'm hopeful we just need to resolve his problem with the savedgames folder.

No problem. BTW, admining a game is easy - except when things go wrong. ;)

Mysterious Caelum
 

Okay, should we wait another twelve hours, then if we don't hear from Tao, we'll just continue as we are with the mystery Caelum player? Would that be appropriate?

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

No, I don't like having unknown players in the game. If we don't hear from Tao I'll check to see if a player that missed sign-ups for Trinity by seconds is interested in playing.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

Okay, sounds good. :)

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

I heard back from Tao and he asked that we find a sub. I PM'd Nightfall, who just missed out on the Trinity game, to see if he's interested. If not, then I'll reopen recruitment.

I see almost everyone already submitted their turns. I'm going to return the game to accepting pretenders status and remove Caelum. Sorry about the delays/restart - sometimes things just don't go smoothly.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

Good news! Nightfall is interested in joining the game. He is looking through the available nations to see which seems interesting. I'll reset the game now.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

Wonderful news! Welcome, Nightfall. :)

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

It seems as though the pretender I had previously uploaded for Eriu has been saved for the relaunch of the game. As such, I assume that there is no need to resubmit my pretender. If this is not the case feel free to let me know.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

Yes, that's correct! There's no need to resubmit your pretenders. Sorry, I should have mentioned that in the message I sent out from the llamaserver.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

Hi all,

This is my first MP game, so I'm going to try something a little wacky and give Abysia a go...

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

Hi Nightfall

You're welcome, thanks to join in these conditions.

Take your time and design your pretender quietly !!!

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

It looks like all pretenders are in. Go?

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

Well, let's make sure Abysia is Nightfall before we get another false start...

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

Well, let's make sure Abysia is Nightfall before we get another false start...

:D

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

Hopefully I won't regret this, but I'm going to assume the Abysia pretender was sent by Nightfall and not an imposter... Game on!

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

I see we have until Wednesday to do our turns. This is just for the first turn I assume? I don't think we need a lot of time to plan these first turns.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

I *think* that Valerius had put us on 72 hour slow host when we were having that issue with the mystery Caelum player. It's probably still on those settings, so the turn probably won't run until he changes things back to 24 hours quick host, even if all of us get our turns in.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

Ave Valerius, morituri te salutant

And i could say : Ad augusta per angusta

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

Yep, it was, all is ok...

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

My answer is arriving kind of late since I see the first turn already hosted, but for future reference I'll mention that the llamaserver always sets a 48 hour hosting time for the first turn. This gives time to resolve any problems players may be having (or deal with Caelian interlopers ;)).


Indeed! :)

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Send pretenders!
 

Nice to get the game going :)
I ran into an early though choice:

Brigands in my capital province (unerst 35 tax 50). Do I patrol with the newly produced army... or send it off for conquest?

Ended off opting for the 2nd option - but I'm still unsure.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

Those events are always tough but I think you made the right choice - have to keep expanding. Since unrest hits both gold and available resources you may want to factor that into which province you choose to take next. If your dominion has spread to an indie province you'll have info on its gold/resources, if not you can go with tendencies such as mountains = resources, farmlands = gold.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

Ah the joys of Turmoil. Also with CBM I believe that Luck/Misfortune each add 7% random event chance per level instead of 5%; there would be a +36% chance with full Luck/Misfortune + Turmoil.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

I wonder how long we can keep up this amazing speed of 3 turns a day :D

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

Has it really been three turns/day? Pretty darn quick group we are. But don't worry, I'm sure one of us will stale soon. :D

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

I might take a while this turn, as I'm waiting for diplomacy to conclude before processing my turn. It'll be done by the deadline though!

Edit: That wasn't long at all!

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

Sorry for the delay, I'm just waiting on some diplomacy.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

I wouldn't actually call anything you've said to me diplomacy, and I outright reject your ultimatim, I choose 3, if you want to attack, and we both know you will, your the agressor.

By the way, for those of you that haven't noticed, Pythium will probably take another 4 provinces in the next 2 turn, several of which are currently mine, and at the same time wall off another ten for himself.

When that happens he will effectively control 32 provinces and close to a third of the entire income in the game...

But I'm sure all that combined with the lying and bullying that he calls diplomacy, is just good strategy, unfortunately it's a crap introduction to MP Domionions, and this newbie is not feeling any friendliness in this game.

:down:

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

With all due respect, I would like to point that accusing another player of lying and bullying is, well, not very friendly.

I have previously played with some of the other players in this game and enjoyed courteous and cordial relationships with them.

There is a great deal of mystery on my part as to why an attempt to negotiate borders and arrange a non-aggression pact has inspired such ill will.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

... sounds like we have our first war here in our little world.

But I agree... there should be high friendliness factor in these introduction games.


edit: sent before mockingbirds reply...
there seems to have been communication breakdown... Let us know if you agree on where the diplomacy went evil... maybe we can learn something

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

Mockingbird's summary view of a diplomacy gone weirdly wrong follows.

Nightfall: Hi! I'm concerned that you're advancing towards our territory.

Me: Don't worry, I'm not trying to be aggressive. But I would feel better if our border were at a strategic choke point. I will of course offer compensation for any territory you give up.

Nightfall: No, you should give up a province instead. I'll give you a token payment for it.

Me: I don't want to give up the province. How about a one-for-one province swap instead to make for better borders?

Nightfall: Your proposal makes no sense. You're obviously out to get me and will invade next turn.

Me: ???

[turn happens, I do not in fact invade]

Nightfall: You're out to get me, and I think I will have to wage war to defend myself.

Me: ??? ... Okay, how about we just settle for the border we have now? I'm happy to sign a peace treaty and leave it at that. Or will you have war between us? It's your choice.

Nightfall: You're a liar and a bully!

Me: ???

End result: Mockingbird is very confused

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

Okay, in the interest of moving the game forward I'm going to assume that Nightfall does in fact want peace and will submit my turn shortly.

I can only hope that Nightfall doesn't turn around and throw that gesture of good will in my face by invading me.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

I don't have time to read now, maybe tomorrow.... ;)

I thought the game would be hosted, and i checked it.

Waiting for 2h files so it had hosted no ?
but i've received nothing (maybe i've deleted the mail, but it doesn't sound familar to me)

OK i've received it !!!!!

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

Wow your delusional...

Summary of the actual conversation...

Me: I see that you have just invaded an, admitted neutral, province under my dominion, please do no advance any further into my dominion.

mockingbird: (Ignores Nightfall and moves further in) By the way I expect you to give up the best 2 provinces you've managed to take so far so I can have a full quarter of the map.

Me: How about you just cede the one province I already asked you not to take and we can have a peacefull border. I'll even compensate you.

I honestly don't know whether my offer of compensation was reasonable or not, apparently mockingbird doesn't think so, but gave me no indication what would be reasonable.

mockingbird: No that will leave me disconnected (A blatant lie). Give me one or both of your provinces.

Me: How could that leave you disconnected??? Perhaps you misunderstood my offer. (Giving him the benefit of the doubt.)

mockingbird: Since you won't give me both your best provinces, I'll have to have one if you want a peacefull border. I may be willing to make a swap instead which is nothing but bad for you.

Me: FFS, I've got a crap starting position here, and your income is over double mine, with far more growth coming, please throw me a tiny bone.

mockingbird: Either give me a NAP 3 or I attack you immeadiately.

Note that at this point strategically my best option is to say I agree to the NAP and then break it within the next 2 turns, but I didn't feel comfortable doing that.

Sorry to bother everyone, and I would like to make it clear that I don't think mockingbird has done anything wrong, he hasn't, he is just playing the game.

I understand the point is to try to win, my only real point is that if you're going to play in the newbie game you may want to be just a little less full on with the actual newbies.

I'll get back in my box now...

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

Oh it's on... but I will not attack you this turn in order to give you the opportunity to either get back into position or try some real negotiation, rather than just trying to push me around. Up to you...

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

I'm not sure if this will help, but I'll just mention a couple of thoughts regarding expansion.

Whenever I expand I'm always looking for choke points that I can use to build a wall around my territories. I can always go back and take other indie provinces inside that wall later. At the same time I try to be reasonable - if you get greedy and box people in and they have no direction in which to expand they have little to lose by attacking you. By and large I think early wars are bad for both parties. Assuming equal skill, you will drain each other's strength while other nations build up.

But in the end this is a war game and sometimes two parties don't see eye-to-eye and end up fighting sooner rather than later (eventually *everyone* fights - well, unless late game micro beats them down and they call it quits ;)). As far as having a friendly game I would just request that it not get personal. It can help if you try to keep in character and attack the nation, not the player.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

This is exactly what I tried to explain privately, you just put it much more eloquantly than me. Although everyone else is almost certainly more skillfull than me, even an average opponent can still drain you of resources.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

Nightfall, as a first MP game you are served !

Welcome and thanks again to sub TaoCuathon

Maybe Pythium is more experienced (a great early expansion), but be sure that most of us are newbies, and that's the reason i've joined this game, don't think you're less skillfull than others

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

Out of interest Valerious...

As admin, how much of what is happening in the games your running do you see / pay attention to?

Just curious...

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

Normally I just see the graphs on the llamaserver and whatever is posted in this thread. If I need to sub a player I can change the nation's e-mail address to my own in order to see if the position is viable but outside of that I have less information than anyone in the game.

I check every couple of days to make sure we don't have anyone staling but other than that I just respond to requests as they arrive.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

Hello all

It seem that the cause is lost for Vanheim. Pangaera is sieging the Vanheim capital with sufficient numbers.

I had 2 forts next to each other as I thought that I would be able to break sieges between the 2. My final atemp to relive my 2nd fort (with a good sized army) was stalled when pangaera attacked with 20 centaur archers and a standard commander. To me it had clear mark of a stalling move.. but I sense that it a tough case to argue.

Anyway... I think my complete neglection of research put me in a bad position.

I'll check in on the next turns.. but don't think there is much to do. What are the procedures to turn control over to AI?

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

Hello, Martin T. I'm sorry if the centaur archer attack looked like a stalling move. That actually didn't occur to me because I didn't think there was any way you would try to attack. I was trying to gauge the power of your capital army and it's vulnerability to archery. I also recall it being 33 centaur archers instead of 20, but perhaps I misremember.

Valerius, for the future, would my move be seen as against the spirit of the rules?

As for your position, I don't know if I'd give up just yet! Of course, if it's no longer any fun for you, it's certainly understandable that you'd want to stop.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

If there's really nothing you can do you can go to Options --> Become computer controlled. But if you have even just a few resources left please keep fighting. You'll certainly do a better job than the AI will and the turns won't take long. Ideally everyone plays until they are completely eliminated.

Research is crucial and Van is horrible at it (aside from the cap only dwarves) so you basically need indie mages in order to get any kind of cost effective research (or use gems to forge research boosters - but I hate wasting them on that except for some lightless lanterns).



Attempting to pin an army in place with a small force is essentially an exploit of the game mechanics. You can imagine how frustrating the game would become if everyone used that tactic. Now there's a gray area here in that something can look like a blocking move but not be intended to be one (as Sephorin mentioned above). So it comes down to intent: if you know you're trying to block movement you're violating the spirit of the game. And my experience has been that people don't want to do that and just asking them not to is all that's required.

Also, credit to both of you in handling this discussion well as these are the kinds of things that can cause hard feelings.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

In other news, I just realized it's time to change to 48 hour hosting. This will also postpone the current hosting time by 24 hours.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

I see. Well, if we're judging by intent alone, I'm definitely innocent. :D But the more I think about it, the more I can see how what I did could certainly look like a stall tactic. Valerius, if you think that there's a penalty that I could take for my action, I would happily accept it. I want to avoid any hard feelings, if that's possible.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

I don't think there's a need for a penalty and you two have handled the discussion well so I don't think there will be hard feelings. :)

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

I should probably note here that I have apoligised to mockingbird privately for allowing my frustration to get the better of me.

While we are at war in the game, I don't harbour any ill feelings towards him.

Re: First Blood - Newbie game - Running
 

It's difficult to get attacked and be on the losing side, or to be forced/manipulating into starting a war you know you can't win, and handle that situation gracefully. Having been there numerous times, I'm quite familiar with it. That being said, the important thing to remember is that even when you're getting completely stomped and are well on your way to losing, there is probably a lesson or two you can learn to play a better game next time.

And, as has been said, congratulations to everyone for handling some dicey diplomatic situations well.