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-   -   MP: ANDalusian Sun: Lolomo wins after more than 2 years of gruelling competition! (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=47211)

WraithLord March 27th, 2011 11:11 AM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Amazing how you manage to articulate things I think even before I manage to find out exactly what's itching me :)

Oh and due to your post I'd like to change my vote re. holy war. I prefer to play it safe, just CBM 1.83 + the two nation mods.
Edit: llamabeast, if you are gonna play and think holy war is safe then you have my vote :)
I'm now officially seconding your vote.

Amhazair, you better decide something soon before we vote our selves to death on the mods :eek:

llamabeast March 27th, 2011 11:20 AM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Oh gosh how confusing! Well, just to say I'm happy either way. :)

LoloMo March 27th, 2011 11:24 AM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
I'm sure we'll have fun whichever mod we have. I'm still for including lesser holy war, and the AI mod. As experienced players, we'll adapt and exploit the hell out of any loopholes. And make sure we win the battle by round 5!! :D

Amhazair March 27th, 2011 03:08 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
First off, for those looking for answers from me: I did say I'd be gone for the weekend, and would see about making final decisions after getting back, so shame on you for all your impatience! ;)

You do have a good point about casting AI behaviour Calahan, (which I admit I did not think about) but since all people who expressed an opinion before were in favour of using the Holy War mod, and since Llamabest assures us there were no issues with the previous well-tested version that's good enough for me.

I'll update the OP to refelct we'll be using CBM 1.83 and the Holy war mod.

With Llamabeast joining and Rabelais dropping out (Have a good rest I'd say :) ) we have 14 players so far. (If Calahan confirms participation.) While there's obviously room for more I see no specific reason to hang around waiting for more with a nice field of players allready assembled and no new signups the last two days. I propose we start making our nation choices and send them to Sasooli. (I asked him to turn on his PM's). Anyone new signing up before nations are assigned is obviously still free to join.

In the meantime (and assuming no more people sign up: Any map suggestions? From the ones I have on my disk Cradle of Dominion seems the best fit. (Rather roomy, but not too much so, and not too many water provinces.)

Amhazair March 27th, 2011 03:24 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Baalz (Post 774011)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Amhazair (Post 773870)
(IF YOU DO PUBLICLY POST YOUR PREFERED NATIONS DESPITE THIS WARNING, YOU'LL BE ASSIGNED A RANDOM NATION INSTEAD.)

Alrighty, then I choose Ermor.

You know, you could have just posted saying you wanted a random nation and have achieved the same result without having me be utterly mad at you for flaunting my authority. :p

Fantomen March 27th, 2011 04:04 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Not only is Sasoolis PM:s turned off here, his inbox at dom3mods is full. Arrgh!

Amhazair March 27th, 2011 04:11 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Hah! Probably everyone in this game first asked him to turn his Pm's on here, and then sent in his nation choices in his next PM. :) Should be fun.

Ragnoff March 27th, 2011 04:36 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Full up yet?

Random nation is fine if there are any left

Calahan March 27th, 2011 04:49 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Amhazair (Post 774182)
First off, for those looking for answers from me: I did say I'd be gone for the weekend, and would see about making final decisions after getting back, so shame on you for all your impatience! ;)

Disappointed to hear about your lack of omnipresence. But Dimaz might have been around (although not sure what decision making powers you've given him during the design stage)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amhazair (Post 774182)
You do have a good point about casting AI behaviour Calahan, (which I admit I did not think about) but since all people who expressed an opinion before were in favour of using the Holy War mod, and since Llamabest assures us there were no issues with the previous well-tested version that's good enough for me.

I'll update the OP to refelct we'll be using CBM 1.83 and the Holy war mod.

I'd be interested in knowing what games the mod has seen action in, and in particular what nations and players were involved. As nations without (important) mage-priests like (all LA) Man, Jomon, Pangaea won't be affected much at all by a load of new holy spells. But the likes of Arco, Mictlan, TC to name just a few of the many in LA with mage-priests, could have they top line mages severely affected by a load of new spells. Plus some players don't tend to scrutinise the battle replays close enough to report feedback on this sort of thing, as it's nowhere near the same as testing units. Since if you got royally stuffed in a fight, you're unlikely to replay it several times to notice your mage-priests casting junk, and hence report it as a problem

And I hate to sound like the elitist jerk I know I am, but there are very few players I trust when it comes to testing and providing proper feedback, and that list narrows to less than the digits on one hand when it comes to observing casting AI behaviour. Since when wars are going well and you are tanking someone hard, who bothers to take the time to notice what your mage priests were casting after the 6th round. And while I haven't tested Holy Wars mod yet to know for certain how it affects nations (but I will try to soon), I do know enough about the problems with mage-priests in general to know you likely can't just add new holy spells and expect there not to be potentially adverse side-effects. Especially for 0 fatigue spells (I'd be surprised if Faith Healing wasn't very popular with the casting AI).

It way well be that most nations aren't that effected at all, and most may well benefit. But if just one nation/player has their game severely compromised or even ruined by these new spells due to no fault of their own, then I for one would find that very unfair, and even wrong. And that's regardless of whether I was that nation or I was fighting it (since I certainly don't want to win fights or wars due to problems caused by a mod. And I'd rather be that nation in that case for the challenge, rather than fighting against it with an unfair advantage)

But democracy has spoken it seems, even though democracy often just sees people voting "we want more" (which is one reason why it sucks). Do you want more spells? "Yes". Do you want the government to mint lots and lots of extra money and give it freely to everyone? "Yes, that sounds great". More != good, as it's almost never that straightforward.

Anyway I've said my bit, so I'll shut up and leave it there I think. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amhazair (Post 774182)
(If Calahan confirms participation.)

I'll hopefully be able to let you know in a few days. Also, I think you've left a few players off the list (Ghoul31, NooBliss), unless they are still awaiting clearance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amhazair (Post 774182)
In the meantime (and assuming no more people sign up: Any map suggestions? From the ones I have on my disk Cradle of Dominion seems the best fit. (Rather roomy, but not too much so, and not too many water provinces.)

Here are two wraparounds to consider.

Riverlands (231+17) - http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43606

or if you want a tighter fit

GreeeceStain (181+18) - http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44078


The Wiki has a good range of maps to browse through (and the llamaserver has most as well)
http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Category:Map


Edit - Are caps going to be VP marked? and are starts going to be random, or is someone going to place them? If the latter, then the former will decide the range of people who can do that. Since if caps are not VP marked, you need someone not playing to fix the starts. And VP caps also means "capture and hold capitals for X turns" is a trickier option, as the game auto-ends once the target is reached (although there are ways around this by setting the in-game requirement to all VP's, but then using out-of-game requirements at half+1 pr whatever. Which is no probelm as long as players are aware the in-game winning line on the VP-graph isn't the actual winning line. If that makes sense)

Amhazair March 27th, 2011 04:53 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Not at all full. (In fact, up to 10 spots still available. :) ) Might I encquire about your experience level though? As explained before, this really isn't the best game for inexperienced players to participate in.

Edit: Ghoul has backed out after a PM from me, and am still waiting for a response from Noobliss about his experience level. (As I don't know him at all.)

P3D March 27th, 2011 04:58 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Amhazair (Post 774182)
In the meantime (and assuming no more people sign up: Any map suggestions? From the ones I have on my disk Cradle of Dominion seems the best fit. (Rather roomy, but not too much so, and not too many water provinces.)

The Cradle map will give two or three players poor starting locations (3-4 low-resource neighbors). What about the (fixed) Riverlands map?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43606

Sasooli March 27th, 2011 05:56 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantomen (Post 774187)
Not only is Sasoolis PM:s turned off here, his inbox at dom3mods is full. Arrgh!

Oops! Yes, it looks like my inbox on the other forum is also now full of people demanding I actually do something useful over here.

My PMs are now enabled on this forum (I believe!) so everyone please send me your nation choice. I'll then perform some wizardry to combine them all in a way that leaves as many as possible of you feeling cheated and vowing eternal vengeance on me and my potential descendants.

Dimaz March 28th, 2011 01:32 AM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Noobliss definitely has enough exp for this game.

Amhazair March 28th, 2011 12:33 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimaz (Post 774224)
Noobliss definitely has enough exp for this game.

All right, I'll take your word for it. (You are the all-powerfull adming after all. :D Added to the list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calahan (Post 774192)
[Here are two wraparounds to consider.

Riverlands (231+17) - http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43606

or if you want a tighter fit

GreeeceStain (181+18) - http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44078

From just looking at the map image GreeceStain appears to work best with exactly 18 players. I do like Riverlands though. Again, a bit roomy right now, (16.5 prov/player if we stay at 15) but not too much so, and offers enough room if a couple more players sign up. Unless I hear protests or we somehow manage to fill up to 20+ players I say we stick with that one. I see no specific reason to fix start location if the map is balanced, but if others have a different opinion that's fine with me too.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Calahan
Lots of words about VP

In my opinion managing to take half+1 capitals in a competitive field pretty much means you've won, don't really feel the need to add to the bookkeeping with a 'hold for 3 turns' clause. Neither do I mind the fact Capital locations will be known if marked as VP's mysels. But, once again, I'm more than happy to change my mind if others prefer other conditions. (Hence the ? behind my proposal in the OP.)

Amhazair March 28th, 2011 12:44 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasooli (Post 774196)
My PMs are now enabled on this forum (I believe!)

Indeed they are. (Just tested it ;))

I propose everyone submits their choices by wednesday, that way Sasooli can perform his magic and assign nations by wednesday evening, leaving us a couple of days to test things for a weekend start. (If that fits Sasooli's schedule of course.) Sounds fair to everyone?

llamabeast March 28th, 2011 01:14 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
The only problem, which I should have mentioned, is that I am away Friday lunchtime until Monday evening (going to Paris!). But I can find a sub for the first couple of turns.

WraithLord March 28th, 2011 03:56 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
I prefer riverlands, 9VPs, marked as capitals and no hold for X turns clause.

I'm sorry, I tried anonymous VPs in GoTM and I find it to be too much of a hassle. It's my personal taste but I think the game already requires quite a lot of attention and MM. No need to force players to go crazy with scouts or severely punish those that fail to become all knowing. I have the same gripe with graphs off.

Sasooli March 28th, 2011 06:34 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Amhazair (Post 774277)
I propose everyone submits their choices by wednesday, that way Sasooli can perform his magic and assign nations by wednesday evening, leaving us a couple of days to test things for a weekend start. (If that fits Sasooli's schedule of course.) Sounds fair to everyone?

That works for me. I'll wait until Wednesday, and anyone who hasn't sent me their choice by then will get a random nation unless they let me know they need more time.

I've had a couple of questions about my methods of assignment. Here are the answers, though if Amhazair/Dimaz object I'm happy to backtrack.

Q: How many nations can we put on the 'definitely not' list?
A: A maximum of two.

Q: Will conflicts be solved by coin toss?
A: Not necessarily. I will make it a priority to try and give everyone one of their first three choices, if at all possible.

Q: Hypothetically speaking and purely for academic interest, do you know what the average bribe was for fixing nation assignments in PBEM games last season?
A: I believe it was in the region of 10 astral pearls per game, though bribe size was strongly correlated with physical attractiveness of the bribee.

Amhazair March 29th, 2011 12:31 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasooli (Post 774324)
That works for me. I'll wait until Wednesday, and anyone who hasn't sent me their choice by then will get a random nation unless they let me know they need more time.

I've had a couple of questions about my methods of assignment. Here are the answers, though if Amhazair/Dimaz object I'm happy to backtrack.

Q: How many nations can we put on the 'definitely not' list?
A: A maximum of two.

Q: Will conflicts be solved by coin toss?
A: Not necessarily. I will make it a priority to try and give everyone one of their first three choices, if at all possible.

Q: Hypothetically speaking and purely for academic interest, do you know what the average bribe was for fixing nation assignments in PBEM games last season?
A: I believe it was in the region of 10 astral pearls per game, though bribe size was strongly correlated with physical attractiveness of the bribee.

I totally agree with all these answers, especially for the second question. (A bit more work for you, but that's why I hired expert help of course. :) )

As for the last question, with no particular reason in mind I suggest you ask Llamabeast what benefit he got out of gaining my gratitude once upon a time.

llamabeast March 29th, 2011 12:40 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Sasooli has drunk some!

Amhazair March 29th, 2011 12:52 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WraithLord (Post 774301)
I prefer riverlands, 9VPs, marked as capitals and no hold for X turns clause.

I'm sorry, I tried anonymous VPs in GoTM and I find it to be too much of a hassle. It's my personal taste but I think the game already requires quite a lot of attention and MM. No need to force players to go crazy with scouts or severely punish those that fail to become all knowing. I have the same gripe with graphs off.

I would have rounded 15/2+1 to 8 myself, but sure. Since no one else expressed another opinion (on this or the other settings) I've removed all '?'s from my OP. (Due to this overwhelming lack of unsupportiveness I can only assume I'm the master of inventing the perfect settings on my own. :angel Also, I really like to make up words.)

llamabeast March 29th, 2011 01:16 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
9 capitals sounds like a high bar to set, although I don't think it matters because once someone's got 6 or so I expect it will probably be obvious that they've won anyway (i.e. no objections).

Calahan March 29th, 2011 01:29 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Amhazair (Post 774404)
Quote:

Originally Posted by WraithLord (Post 774301)
I prefer riverlands, 9VPs, marked as capitals and no hold for X turns clause.

I'm sorry, I tried anonymous VPs in GoTM and I find it to be too much of a hassle. It's my personal taste but I think the game already requires quite a lot of attention and MM. No need to force players to go crazy with scouts or severely punish those that fail to become all knowing. I have the same gripe with graphs off.

I would have rounded 15/2+1 to 8 myself, but sure. Since no one else expressed another opinion (on this or the other settings) I've removed all '?'s from my OP. (Due to this overwhelming lack of unsupportiveness I can only assume I'm the master of inventing the perfect settings on my own. :angel Also, I really like to make up words.)

Or maybe some people just like thinking long and hard about these things :) as some of us are getting on a bit now, and can't handle this modern quick thinking malarkey :(

If opinions are still allowed though, then for capital requirements I'd prefer 50%+1 rather than anything approaching 60%+, if 50%+1 is the minimum offer on the table that is. As given the field we have lined up it should probably be nearer 40% IMO, as the higher the quality of players, the more chance of a game dragging on forever if the goal posts are too high.

For the map, Riverlands looks a good choice. If all options for starts are open, then in order I'd prefer

1 - Non-marked VP capitals with preset starts done by a non-player.
2 - VP marked capitals with preset starts done by someone (note this can be a player)
3 - Non-marked VP capitals with random starts.


What should be avoided at all costs though is VP marked capitals with random starts. As then rush nations could start just 2 provinces away from a neighbour, and given the bulleyes marking, they can beeline for someone's capital and be attacking it on turn 4. [Calahan puts his broken record on again]. And rush nations certainly shouldn't be given this sort of unfair help and advantage from just the start locations. [Calahan turns off his broken record]


Also, I'd like to suggest a few further rule requests that I've found help games run smoother, especially (R)AND games. (all taken from my soon to be published book "Good Admining 101". Pre-orders currently being taken :))

1 - That the admin makes it perfectly clear that nobody is to turn AI without prior notification to the admin, and only to the admin (and certainly not on the thread). And that everyone should fight until the last man unless they have a very good in-game reason not to. (out-of-game reasons are a different matter)

2 - Breaking of the no-communication rule, or revealing your ID, should result in immediate expulsion from the game.

3 - Player ID's are only revealed when a nation is defeated, and not if a player sub outs (as this makes it too easy to guess ID's by knowing which player is no longer in the game)

4 - Requests for delays and hosting interval increases are to be PM-ed to the admin only, and not posted on the thread in any way. As any thread posts relating to either makes it very easy to guess ID's.

These rules (mainly in relation to 1+2) should apply to all players, and nobody should be exempt from them in any way, regardless of who they are, or who they think they are.


Edit.

ps. @ llamabeast - Will you be able to fix the Ember Lord causing blindness before the game starts? Or if not, maybe increase the cost a bit to reflect this (since I understand you are making a unique combined mod for this game, so that change won't affect other games)

ps2. I checked the Riverlands map last night (the "crown5" version of it), and there are one or two errors that need correcting, and one or two other things to tidy up a bit. Which I will probably volunteer to do myself unless someone else does.

Amhazair March 29th, 2011 01:58 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Calahan (Post 774407)
If opinions are still allowed though, then for capital requirements I'd prefer 50%+1 rather than anything approaching 60%+, if 50%+1 is the minimum offer on the table that is. As given the field we have lined up it should probably be nearer 40% IMO, as the higher the quality of players, the more chance of a game dragging on forever if the goal posts are too high.

Changed to 8 since you me and Llama are all of the same opinion and the three of us together trump even Wraithlords opinion. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calahan
For the map, Riverlands looks a good choice. If all options for starts are open, then in order I'd prefer

1 - Non-marked VP capitals with preset starts done by a non-player.
2 - VP marked capitals with preset starts done by someone (note this can be a player)
3 - Non-marked VP capitals with random starts.


What should be avoided at all costs though is VP marked capitals with random starts. As then rush nations could start just 2 provinces away from a neighbour, and given the bulleyes marking, they can beeline for someone's capital and be attacking it on turn 4. [Calahan puts his broken record on again]. And rush nations certainly shouldn't be given this sort of unfair help and advantage from just the start locations. [Calahan turns off his broken record]

My personal preference is to heve VP's marked, mainly to avoid bookkeeping hassle, also since intelligence gathering is harder as it is in RAND games. I don't object to fixed starting locations. If you want to I hereby give you leave to arrange start locations. (Though you might want to wait till signups are finalised.) Possibly at the same time you do this:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Calahan
ps2. I checked the Riverlands map last night (the "crown5" version of it), and there are one or two errors that need correcting, and one or two other things to tidy up a bit. Which I will probably volunteer to do myself unless someone else does.

Also, while I agree that it's very scant consolation for the rushee, I can't remember the last time I've seen a nation optimized for an early rush actually win a game. So it might* be argued that rushers in fact do need an unfair advantage.

* I'm still not arguing it though. Just playing devil's advocate for a moment.

WraithLord March 29th, 2011 06:08 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
hehe, just one of you three is enough to trump my opinion ;)

8 VPs are cool :)
Option 2 (2 - VP marked capitals with preset starts done by someone ) is most preferable to me though the others are also ok (if somewhat time consuming due to added book-keeping).

Calahan's rules are golden and I know from experience that he's very good at balancing and fixing maps :up:

Calahan March 29th, 2011 06:45 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
If we end up going for "VP marked caps with preset start locations" (and it very much looks like we are), then I have no problem with sorting the map out. I'll obviously wait for recruitment to finish first though :) I'll probably have to wait until the final nation list is published as well, as if R'yleh or Marignon are in the game, then special arrangements have to be made regarding their start locations. (not sure if Atlantis need a coastal start as well. I think they don't, but logically they should?!?)

Also, the Riverlands map (like a lot of Elmokki's maps) has a number of provinces tagged as 'many sites' (they appear on the map as sort of white ruins/buildings/towers), which basically means is there more chance of the province containing a full set of four sites (not sure if it means higher chance of rare sites or not). I'm not sure what you want me to do with these provinces, but the likely options will be...

1 - Remove them
2 - Ignore them
3 - Try to make sure none of them are starting locations

And that's about it. I already know I won't have any chance of trying to 'balance' these provinces in relation to the start locations. So if they stay then some start locations might well be adjacent to 1 or 2 of them, and some starts several provinces away from any, as these 'many sites' provinces are not spaced out on the map.

For the starts themselves, I'll try to make sure everyone has between 4-6 adjacent provinces to their cap (if only 4 then I'll try my best to ensure 2 are mountains or forests). And that all caps are at least 3 provinces apart, ie. X-1-2-3-X (or possibly 4 on this map, as there are a lot of choke points).

Hhhhmmm, think that's about it.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Amhazair (Post 774409)
....I'm still not arguing it though.

But I like a good argument, and haven't had one in ages on the Dom forums. Guess I'll have to go start one somewhere else then, as you are no fun :(

Sasooli March 29th, 2011 06:57 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by llamabeast (Post 774401)
Sasooli has drunk some!

For a couple of minutes I thought you were accusing me of being drunk for talking about bribes. But yes, I sampled one of the biertjes and they were heel lekker Amhazair.

Sasooli March 30th, 2011 08:31 AM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Just a reminder to send in your nation choices today. The following people still haven't contacted me:

Llamabeast, Baalz, Ossa, DrPraetorius, Noobliss

If you're one of these and thought you had sent me your pick, let me know. It's possible it got lost in the PM confusion.

Fantomen March 30th, 2011 12:20 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Atlantis does need a coastal start iirc, at least the game itself always places it in a coastal province. About the "manysites", my preference would be to remove them.

Amhazair March 30th, 2011 01:08 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantomen (Post 774481)
Atlantis does need a coastal start iirc, at least the game itself always places it in a coastal province. About the "manysites", my preference would be to remove them.

I'm quite certain that's indeed the case in regard to Atlantis. As for the manysites my personal preference would be to ignore them - I'm not personally worried about perfect balance, and the occasional plum falling into your lap is allways fun - but I believe most players, competitively cutthroat as they are, will prefer to remove them, so go with that I guess.

llamabeast March 30th, 2011 07:19 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Okay, in fact we won't need a special mod for this game. The mods will be (I believe, it's Amhazair's say after all):

CBM 1.84
Holy War: Lesser Edition
Expanded Nations Pack 2

WraithLord March 31st, 2011 01:19 AM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
But, but wait a sec. If ENP is used then can we choose mod nations from it?- I was working under the assumption that only the 2 mod nations Amhazair suggested were available.

llamabeast March 31st, 2011 03:16 AM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
No, only the ones Amhazair listed - I'm only suggesting using the pack because it's convenient and the fact that it includes stuff we're not using does no harm.

Sasooli March 31st, 2011 06:09 AM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Ok, nation assignments are done. I've PM'ed Damiz and am sending out the individual notices now - flood control on PMs is a bit of a ***** when you have 20 messages to send!

Everyone has one of their first two nation picks, which I think counts as success.

Sasooli March 31st, 2011 06:41 AM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Ok I have to go out for a bit, but I'll send the last few nation picks when I get back in a couple of hours.

NooBliss March 31st, 2011 07:51 AM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Well... Having looked at the holy war mod again, I like it even less than before. If it's not too late to sign out, I'd like to do so.

If that will cause you guys to waste time looking for another player, I can stay tho.

Calahan March 31st, 2011 09:23 AM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NooBliss (Post 774603)
Well... Having looked at the holy war mod again, I like it even less than before. If it's not too late to sign out, I'd like to do so.

If that will cause you guys to waste time looking for another player, I can stay tho.

I can't say I'm too fond of the Holy Wars mod either, or if I'm honest, the changes CBM 1.8+ has made (to 1.6). But I promised myself I'd try one game with CBM 1.8+ to see if I liked it, mainly out of loyalty, with this game being that one game. So right now I'm just viewing Holy Wars in the same way, with this game being the one test it gets.

Although if there is a 11th hour vote to remove Holy Wars, then I would raise my hand in favour. (although that's probably unlikely now that the nations are decided)


@ Dimaz/Sasooli - Can on of you please post the final list of nations, as I need to know what nations are in the game to arrange the map. Although just saying "No Marignon, R'yleh or Atlantis" or "Just R'yleh" will also be good enough if you don't want to give out the full list for whatever reason.


And Re: Atlantis and coastal start.
I think they get priority for a coastal start if one is available, but unlike water nations or LA Marignon, the game won't crash if there isn't one available. Or at least that was my understanding for the Prep2 game, where LA Marignon needed to be given a special neighbouring water province.

WraithLord March 31st, 2011 09:50 AM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
how much time do we have to test builds?

Oh and when creating pretenders should we be careful re. order of enabling mods?- as in CBM 1.84,Holy War: Lesser Edition and last - Expanded Nations Pack 2

llamabeast March 31st, 2011 10:10 AM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Re mod load order: If you are playing a mod nation then CBM needs to be loaded before the mod nation. Otherwise it doesn't matter.

Calahan March 31st, 2011 11:02 AM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by WraithLord (Post 774614)
how much time do we have to test builds?

WL, for testing you get 3 minutes starting....now!


Although speaking of testing, can I please ask everyone who is testing to use the attached map. It's not the final version for the game, as it has no fixed starts. But I have hopefully fixed the few remaining connection and terrain tag errors it had.

And if anyone spots an error can they please post it (or PM me). Or even if you think something might be an error, please also report it. As I'd happily have dozens of false error reports if it means also netting the one that fixes a bug. As it's rare one person can find all the bugs, as I find if you don't spot an error straight away, then you become blind to it forever after. And since map bugs can't really be fixed once the game is running, it's now during the pre-game stage that they need to be spotted.

Colonial March 31st, 2011 11:46 AM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Hello guys.

I'm a noob, but have had the idea kicking around the back of my head for a while to write up a LP of a veterins game with a target audience of the more committed set of new players who might want to become veterins one day (as it stands, the only LPs available are of newbie games aimed at people thinking of buying the game). This game looks like a nice opportunity to go for it. the plan would be to compile information while the game is im progress, and only begin to publish the LP after the game has finished.

To do this I would need 1-3 of you lot to volunteer to my new-player analysis (I would write up the one who survives longest), and then send me an email every turn including: both parts of the turn file (for before and after) and a quick summery of what messages you sent. I would also need you're pretender file at the beginning of the game.

you'd get your name in lights for no effort on your part, and we as a community would get a good resource for noobs to make their game more rigorous.

If other players are ok with this, my email address is in the database.

Amhazair March 31st, 2011 11:47 AM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NooBliss (Post 774603)
Well... Having looked at the holy war mod again, I like it even less than before. If it's not too late to sign out, I'd like to do so.

If that will cause you guys to waste time looking for another player, I can stay tho.

Since we haven't started yet, I see no reason to stop you. Little point joining a game when you prefer other settings. Confirm your decision fast though, since it will affect Calahans Capital-fixing work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calahan (Post 774609)
I can't say I'm too fond [...]the changes CBM 1.8+ has made (to 1.6). But I promised myself I'd try one game with CBM 1.8+ to see if I liked it[...]

Pretty much the same for me, though less empathically than in your case I think. Let's see what 1.8 brings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calahan
Although if there is a 11th hour vote to remove Holy Wars, then I would raise my hand in favour. (although that's probably unlikely now that the nations are decided)

Yeah, probably a bad idea after nation picks. I don't really have an oppinion about the mod yet, allthough the fact that it (supposedly) pays off to site-search holy now alone gives it a plus in my books.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Calahan
@ Dimaz/Sasooli - Can on of you please post the final list of nations, as I need to know what nations are in the game to arrange the map. Although just saying "No Marignon, R'yleh or Atlantis" or "Just R'yleh" will also be good enough if you don't want to give out the full list for whatever reason.

I had originally asked Sasooli to only PM players their own nation and a full list to Dimaz thinking it would allow till game start for late signups. Capital fixing obviously changes that and I intended to ask Sasooli to just post/let you know a full nation list so you could get to work on the map, but I seem to not have gotting around to it somehow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WraithLord (Post 774614)
how much time do we have to test builds?

I'd say we start saturday at the earliest, allthough with Calahan having to wait for nation confirmation to fix the map, having to wait for the map to start the game, and then waiting for all pretenders to be sent in it might run a bit later.

Sasooli March 31st, 2011 12:44 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
I believe I've told Calahan what he needs to know.

He suggested I post the full nation list here anyway, partly so people aren't tempted to leave Pretender design until the last minute so they can look at who else is playing. I'm happy to do that if Damiz and Amhazair have no objection?

Amhazair March 31st, 2011 12:51 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Sure, go ahead I'd say.

Amhazair March 31st, 2011 01:03 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Colonial (Post 774628)
Hello guys.

I'm a noob, but have had the idea kicking around the back of my head for a while to write up a LP of a veterins game with a target audience of the more committed set of new players who might want to become veterins one day (as it stands, the only LPs available are of newbie games aimed at people thinking of buying the game). This game looks like a nice opportunity to go for it. the plan would be to compile information while the game is im progress, and only begin to publish the LP after the game has finished.

To do this I would need 1-3 of you lot to volunteer to my new-player analysis (I would write up the one who survives longest), and then send me an email every turn including: both parts of the turn file (for before and after) and a quick summery of what messages you sent. I would also need you're pretender file at the beginning of the game.

you'd get your name in lights for no effort on your part, and we as a community would get a good resource for noobs to make their game more rigorous.

If other players are ok with this, my email address is in the database.

This certainly is a nice idea, and I would not object to it in principle. You are aware though that this is an anonymous game, and thus you should keep peoples identities secret, and not even hint anything you might know or have learned until after the game is finished?

I'm also not sure that this is the first choice of game to comment on, as it takes away the entire diplomacy and trade aspect of the game. (It also means no one would have to summarize messages, since there would be none. :D)

Dimaz March 31st, 2011 02:31 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Jomon player asked me to post the following information about the problem he has with the mod (I rephrased/removed some portions of his message to protect anonymity - even writing style can reveal the author):

Quote:

Checking out Jomon, Broken Swords to test my pretender build I noticed that I had a Woodsmen Blowpipe recruitable in addition to the units I should have. <...>
I spotted these lines at the list of recruitables in 1.4 that wasn't there in 1.2:

--addrecunit 2285 -- Jikininki
--addrecunit 2287 -- Akurojin
#addrecunit "woodsman blowpipe"
Jikininki, Akurojin are new summons in 1.4. I don't know if they're supposed to be in that part of the dm file or not. They certainy don't show up as recruitable in the game itself.

NooBliss March 31st, 2011 02:57 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Yes sorry guys, I'm out. My mistake, should've checked the mod before entering.

+1 on the 1.8 CBM thoughts. :)

Colonial March 31st, 2011 03:47 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Quote:

I'm also not sure that this is the first choice of game to comment on, as it takes away the entire diplomacy and trade aspect of the game. (It also means no one would have to summarize messages, since there would be none. )
As I mentioned, I wouldn't publish anything until after you all had finished. as for no deplomacy: seems to be quite a common choice in vets games, and the no messages would be vary handy...

so yeah, if anyone is up for it, drop me a PM

Amhazair March 31st, 2011 04:12 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimaz (Post 774642)
Jomon player asked me to post the following information about the problem he has with the mod (I rephrased/removed some portions of his message to protect anonymity - even writing style can reveal the author):

Quote:

Checking out Jomon, Broken Swords to test my pretender build I noticed that I had a Woodsmen Blowpipe recruitable in addition to the units I should have. <...>
I spotted these lines at the list of recruitables in 1.4 that wasn't there in 1.2:

--addrecunit 2285 -- Jikininki
--addrecunit 2287 -- Akurojin
#addrecunit "woodsman blowpipe"
Jikininki, Akurojin are new summons in 1.4. I don't know if they're supposed to be in that part of the dm file or not. They certainy don't show up as recruitable in the game itself.

I have now checked both mod nations, and while I didn't see anything wrong with Ulm Reborn, I did notice Jomon's Cur Scout has 40 leadership, which I'm pretty certain he's not supposed to have.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Colonial (Post 774652)
Quote:

I'm also not sure that this is the first choice of game to comment on, as it takes away the entire diplomacy and trade aspect of the game. (It also means no one would have to summarize messages, since there would be none. )
As I mentioned, I wouldn't publish anything until after you all had finished. as for no deplomacy: seems to be quite a common choice in vets games, and the no messages would be vary handy...

so yeah, if anyone is up for it, drop me a PM

Yeah, but appart from publishing the thing you might also comment on something you saw in a certain battle of ask questions about it in some other thread that might give someone's identity away. You'd have to be very careful about everything you say.

Having said that, if you're certain you can protect anonimity I have no objections. Does anyone else? (If anyone does that's fine with me, I think we all have to be on the same page for this one.) IF we do this I think it best that no one says in public he's participating, instead just PM'ing you about it, as an extra layer of 'protection.'

llamabeast March 31st, 2011 05:55 PM

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 
Yep, confirmed that Jomon has the two issues listed: Cur Scout has leadership, Woodsman Blowpipe recruitable (the Jikininki and Akurojin are correct). I've reported these to Sombre.

Shouldn't present a problem though, so long as the Jomon player doesn't either use the Curs as commanders or recruit Blowpipes. Be good, Jomon player! (and... am I talking to myself? Hmm...)


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