Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Recruiting!
 

It's a higher ratio of provinces/player than I'm used to as well. But that's a good point that it does lend itself to the game format.

Assuming we don't get another player soon, what does everyone think about these start locations? Not perfectly balanced of course, but I tried to avoid putting someone directly in the center of the map.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Recruiting!
 

Just my two cents, but the nation in the upper left seems a bit on its own. How about the following, it puts the left two much closer and gives the nation in the middle 6 bordering provinces.

32
79
81
38
50

If it helps, each could have its terrain type set to plain, or whatever is the absence of mountains, forest, swamp, farmland, etc.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Recruiting!
 

Thanks for the feedback. :) I like your changes (btw I assume you meant 28, not 38, as a start location).

I don't think terrain will matter unless it's something like swamp, which would increase the fatigue of units without swamp survival. All of the provinces you suggested are either no specific terrain or border mountains, which I don't think pose a problem.

I'll go ahead and change the map file to reflect your suggestions and, if there's no objections, upload the revised map and start the game on Wed. So if anyone has last minute pretender changes get them in quick. :)

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Recruiting!
 

Yes, you are correct. I meant 28 not 38 for the middle start location.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Recruiting!
 

Took a little longer to get to making the map changes than I expected but the game has now begun. :)

You don't need to download the 5 start version of the map file but I've attached it to the first post if you're interested (also kept the original 6 start version attachment since the llamaserver links to that post).

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

where is the tga file for the map?

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Just attached it to the first post. You can also find it here.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Hey, guys. I'm planning on going camping August 20th, and I'd like to give sufficient warning. If I'm not dead by then, I'll find myself a sub.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Thanks for the advance notice. I'm sure we can figure something out. If you get a sub we can also make it easier on them by slowing down the hosting interval during your vacation so they don't have as many turns to complete.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

I may need the same consideration while I am on vacation the week of August 6th. I am still working out the technical details for how I will have internet access that week. A slowed down pace will likely benefit me as well as my sub, should I determine that I need one.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Sure, no problem. This is vacation season so these things are to be expected. Let me know when you have a better idea about Internet access, etc.

As an aside, one of the nice things about Dominions it that it can easily be run from a flash drive, making it very portable. Of course whether you'll have Internet access or even want to do Dominions turns on your vacation is another matter entirely. ;)

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

That would work out nicely.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

We've been moving at a good pace and may not need the time yet but, as per the game description, I've changed the hosting interval to 48 hours.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

ok, so its 3 on 1. It seems that everyone that plays dominions are gankers and cowards.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

I felt kind of bad about attacking after I got your PM and realized Ulm had decided to attack after all, but I had a commitment to help Eriu so I went ahead and did so. FWIW, your odds just improved somewhat since war has broken out between Man and Pangaea. So, the gorgon queen of Pangaea is now on her way to pay Man a visit. :evil:

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

As an aside, when we only ended up with 5 players I considered that it might be better to have a no diplo game but I didn't want to change a game setting at the last moment.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Some out of character comments:
I have had a lot of fun in this game, thank you for that. And I learned a lot, but thats nothing to wonder in my second MP game. (In fact turnwise it has topped my first one).
I think diplomacy is very difficult with so few nations and a clear gap between the 3 major and the two minor powers. But thats no reason to forbid it. In fact I think more about diplomacy than anything else with this game.

Now hear the words from Igraine, Mistress of Avalon:
It is not acceptable to Us that Pangaea and Ulm conquer the minor nations of Arcoscephale and Eriu. We will not stand aside while those nations are assimilated. So Ulm and Pangaea: You both have to withdraw your troops, or We will have to take proper actions.
As a sign of good will to Pangaea We will not push Our attack further. In fact We will retreat out of Giant's Rest. But don't misunderstand this as fear or weakness. We will come back, if need be.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

I'm glad! :)

I agree. While I hate the micro that comes with it, more diplomatic options is one advantage of larger games. Even if we had managed to get 8 players things would have been better in this respect.

Very well, the (very short) conflict between Man and Pan over worthless ocean provinces has ended. And in fact we are not currently attacking Arco but merely stepped in to help Eriu when their capitol was put under siege.

On another note, I think I may be setting a record for most mountain/border mountain provinces without any E sites.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

I really should check these forums more often, it seems. Arco, I was unaware that Pan had made any aggressive action against you. That said, my attack was motivated, in no small part, by my fear that you and Eriu would exhaust yourselves, and utter hardly a whimper as Pan gobbled you both up. As it appears Pan and Man have called a truce, that fear has hardly subsided!

My attack was otherwise motivated by the fact that of the three nations that border me, you were the sole one did not make any diplomatic contact, and you had no armies at hand and an capital ripe for the taking.

That said, I am not unreasonable. I will amend my orders and withdraw my forces if you apologize for your slanderous comments.

In response to Man, I have to wonder aloud whether you would prove to be such a champion to the minor powers if you hadn't been cut off from them yourself.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

You may very well wonder, but this is not about "woulds" and "ifs", but about hard facts. And the fact is you attacked Arcoscephale. So We will very closely watch your next actions.


Just a comment: Could it be, that the three of us are just too reasonable for a War-Game? ;)

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Lol. Actually it's funny because when I read your statement I thought you meant it sincerely and I think you may be right that there isn't a high level of killer instinct in this group. Ghoul can definitely be aggressive but he tends to choose 1 vs 1 fights rather than jumping in on a dogpile so that he can profit at little cost (uh, actually I'm more inclined to do that than him - I've been trying to improve my killer instinct ;)).

Fighting is good (that to me is the most fun part of the game) but dogpiles aren't much fun (unless the nation being dogpiled is so strong they are actually on an even footing with their many attackers) so I can see ghoul not being too happy about it.

Ghoul and I have been in a lot of games together and he's a man of few words. That can definitely work against him in games that have diplo. Like Louist, Arco was the last nation I had contact with.

I think another thing that works against Arco in this game is that he is the only strong astral nation. That makes him scary but it also makes getting access to his mystics probably the best prize in game. I actually had some concern that it was too good a mage to give other nations access to and that may prove to be the case.

The problem is if Ulm is no longer going to attack Arco that leaves Eriu facing Arco alone and I'm not going to abandon Eriu so I guess that means I'll be attacking Arco again, which means Man and I will be back at war, which will remove the threat to Ulm of Man attacking him so he'll probably grab some of Arco's provinces, and we're right back where we started. :p

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

We certainly seem eager enough not to fight.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Mystics are definitely too valuable a prize. Astral, combined with their fantastic diversity makes Arco far too tasty a target. Priestesses, even with their perfect healing, would be a better choice.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

I just saw the results of last turn. Ghoul's not out of the fight just yet. He rather neatly decimated my forces :P

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

You see, I agree with Valerius that there may be more than a grain of truth in that statement. As in Nations, I too often find some justification for a belligerent act in which I clearly lack the strength, skill, or both to succeed. But, I feel absolutely unable to resist based on what is a "justified response to an existential threat" or some other nonsensical claim for precedence based on an amateur understanding of world history. And, with only two notable exceptions in many, and one which involved me playing a giant nation with a good bless, it has not worked out in my favor. Perhaps Dominions3 is not the best model of history, but if reason tends to prevail over belligerence, it can't be all bad.

Anyway, I'm not sure what I am babbling about here, but that was a very dramatic turn. :)

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Admittedly, I don't have a lot of MP experience, but not even in single player have I lost so many men so quickly.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Priestesses were my first choice but then I got worried about, for instance, Jotun getting ahold of them or maybe another astral nation getting access to Arco's risk free mind hunts.

Well, we could always make a house rule that whoever conquers Arco (if anyone does) agrees not to recruit mystics. Or we could just view conquering Arco as being the equivalent of casting Arcane Nexus in a normal game and thus justification for a dogpile. ;)


Told you Arco was scary. And he hasn't even started yet with mind hunts, soul slay, gifts from heaven... Man may come to regret protecting Arco from the dogpile. :p


Also, I want to clarify something. It isn't necessarily fun to be dogpiled but sometimes that happens and you just make the best of it. Actually, thinking it over, it can be fun to fight a losing battle and make your opponents pay as high a price as possible for taking you down. I had quite a lot of fun in a recent game doing exactly that. Added bonus: the micromanagement goes down as the game goes on!

So nobody is under any obligation to make fights fair or should feel they can't play to their own best interest. There can after all be only one true god.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

In other news, the Pangaean scouting network reports disturbing signs of a buildup of forces along Man's border with Ulm. Pangaea would look unfavorably on any hostile action Man might take against Ulm.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

I think I see what you're saying here. It's seems like you are inclined to role play your nations, rather than a more pragmatic approach to choosing your nation's path. By far, most D3 MP games fall into the pragmatic category. Jotun and Van may be ancient enemies but if an alliance suits the players running those nations then there will likely be one. ;)

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Well, that was a great battle in Arcoscephale, this turn. My congratulations to arco for this victory.
@ Pan
We just want to be sure that Ulm does not stomp on the weaker nations. But then those "weaker" nations clearly showed teeth this month and perhaps don't need one to stand up for them at all.
And just as a comment: Ulm did not stand up for you the way you did now, when We announced our short campaign against Pangaea.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

To be fair, Ulm is hardly a forum regular, and that war had already ended before it came to their attention :)

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

To be fair We informed our good neighbors of Ulm of our imminent attack and received good luck wishes.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Well, to be honest, I was standing up for my self-interest more than for Ulm. Pan is all about the balance of power - we believe it should be balanced in our favor. :D

As far as Arco goes, he's only weak in terms of province count. In terms of nation strength he's probably the most powerful nation in this game. Just wait until he's got his mind hunters geared up...

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Wait, now I'm confused. Was my threat completely ineffective and you'll be attacking anyway? Or did you decide to call it off?

Olm, you are really very honorable but I think we're going to have to work on making you more ruthless. If you have a NAP with someone then I'd give notice but if not then all bets are off. After all, you've got a stealthy nation: just sneak your troops into someone's territory and when you're ready declare "Surprise! All your (unforted) province are belong to us.".

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

No, my comment referred to my attack against you some turns ago. I had (still have?) a NAP with Ulm and informed him, that I will attack you.
So he knew of our quarrel right from the start. He wished me good luck against you.

But honestly, this game is very difficult diplomatically. Especially for me. I cannot do anything without fighting two strong nations at once. On the other hand my advantage in research will evaporate as soon as everyone researches all spells. :confused:

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Diplomacy is tricky and things are changing a lot in this game. And again, with so few nations options are limited.

My concern was that Man and Arco together would overwhelm Ulm, leaving me in a bad position. 1 vs 1 I think Ulm and Man would have a fun and fair fight.

I'm going to simplify things. Ghoul, Arco worries me a lot. I'm going to kill you (or die trying). I think I can keep Arco busy enough to keep him off Ulm's back, in which case I have no objection to Ulm and Man fighting it out 1 vs 1. So, everyone can decide their course of action based on that. Man and Ulm can face off 1 vs 1 while I fight Arco, or you can all dogpile me if I get to be too big a threat. ;)

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

I rank last in just about every category. But I'm some big threat. Yea right. You are so full of it.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

To be fair, you are quite correct!

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

You have several distinct advantages, even at last place. First, you have the aforementioned monopoly in Astral, which gives you the most powerful remote attack spell, and access to communions which opens up, for you, almost every battlefield spell in the game.

Second, and most dangerous, I think, is that you have ready access to trampling units that (as I painfully learned) you can field in great numbers, despite having only two forts, last I checked. Even my cavalry is small enough for your chariots to squash! I'm not sure I can field anything immune to the effect, besides the behemoth, but I can't create those in enough numbers to actually get a return on that investment.

In a game without any indy elephants and no high-level summons, that's huge.

But credit where it is due: You did a fantastic job in the battle over Arco. I'd love to end this war now, but I obviously cannot blame you if you want to continue!

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Well, perhaps its because I've never seen an astral nation on the rampage, but to me these threats seem rather dim and distant. And anyway the situation does not improve with Pan having access to th Astral Mages of Arco.
So my reaction to recent development:

We, Igraine, Mistress of Avalon, propose to the nation of Arcoscephale an alliance against all and every enemy of Our two great nations, until either all those enemies are vanquished or one of Our nations has perished for good.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

I'm afraid the subtleties of diplomacy are not one of Ulm's strengths. We do not know whether to consider ourselves still at war with Arcoscephale or not, as it is unclear whether their chariots are merely retaking their lands, or whether they plan to continue marching on our lands.

Without word one way or the other from Arco, we must continue what harassment we have left to us. If you wish us to stop, just say the word.

In other news, no less than 3 Bards of Man were caught red-handed trying to steal secrets from our capital of Ulm. They refused to yield, and the Black Guardians were forced to slay them.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

I think Arco is just taking back his territories. He probably would have left troops in 24 if he were planning on continuing to attack you. If you need a way to withdraw your PoD without fighting Arco let me know and we can route him through my territory (though I just realized he has pills of water breathing so retreating through the water is another option).

This was a quiet turn but there may be some fireworks next turn: Arco's chariots and elephants vs. Pan's naked women and carousing revelers. Be sure to get your scouts to 46 and 33 so you don't miss the fun!


Pan will have to keep an eye out for those troublemakers as well. In Man and Pan's previous short war some of those rabble rousers caused discontent among the populace. They were never found and are likely still hiding in our territory. However, harpies are patrolling in force and the troublemakers will surely be discovered and dealt with appropriately.

In the northeast, Man's troops have again massed in 66. However, the defense of the fort in 62 is strong and it seems unlikely that the walls will be breached before reinforcements arrive.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

In a show of good faith, the Prince of Death is removing himself from Arco's territory, and ordering all harassment to stop. Ulm shall stand down to repair its damaged pride and reputation.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

We think it absolutely scandalous how Ulm boasts about the slaughter of three innocent artists. Man rejects any proposed connections of Our nation to these poor individuals other than them being Man citizens. Thus We protest sharply against this unjustly and barbarian act of violence against Our peaceful, art loving brethren.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Our offer seems not to even be worth an answer to Arcescophale. We take this behaviour as a grave insult and stop all diplomatic connections to Arcoscephale. If Arcoscephales only means of communication is crying and weeping, its not Our task to deny them reasons to do so. Nonetheless in the best interest of Our nation we cannot simply watch Pangaea swallow Arcoscephale. We need to at least take some advantage from this, so as from now on the nations of Man and Pangaea are at war.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Man need not feel worried, the "artists" didn't give up their employer before they drew steel on the Black Guardians of Peace and Order.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

No worries; we have enough naked ladies for everyone!

The anticipated Pan/Arco battle didn't materialize, however Man kicked things off very nicely, using armies, stealth forces and a fully equipped thug. So, first round to Man - but there's still plenty of fighting left.

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Sending naked ladies against longbowmen. What a cruel world is this?

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Bitter defeat against the monstrous gorgon!

But I have one question concerning game mechanics:Is it correct that even stone beings like the crusher are petrified by the gorgon?

Re: Nations - MA, CBM 1.6, max lvl 6 magic, NI, Assimilation mod - Running
 

Well, as you pointed out, the naked ladies do need some help. ;)

Yes, monsters with the stone being attribute will still be petrified by the gorgon (and the Aegis, a unique magic item not present in this game). However, they will not be petrified by the Stone Sword (another unique item).

So when fighting the gorgon you want either ranged attacks or high MR units for melee battle.