Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

As I understand it, it means that Illwinter has not yet CHOSEN Shrapnel to be the distributor.

But I wouldnt hold out for an advertising company with bargain bins either. Im not sure that Illwinter is prepared to chance a shelfware/advertising distributor so even if they change it is likely to be another distribute & publicize company.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Putting it on steam or something similar would probably work best, since it's a much more casual game than dominions.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Any chance we might see a youtube video or two of this Conquest of Elysium 3? It's easier for my family to gain interest with what they can see instead of trying to convince them to read a text file update log. Thanks.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Ha! I totally agree.

Do an AAR via youtube, make sure the name clearly states "Beta" and get everyone keen before the release.

No pressure. None at all ;)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

"* A dmg 1 attack has a 20% value of becoming a dmg 2 attack, enabling snakes a small chance to damage armored units."

So no open die rolls in CoE3?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Everything else EXCEPT dmg 1 attacks already uses open die rolls, so that little update is just rectifying a minor problem and making snakes (the real ones) a lot more annoying than they already are...

EDIT: To clarify, snakes have a dmg 1 venomous bite, which generally does a number on any standard unit they manage to bite, because while the damage from the bite is generally very low, the poison tends to be fatal more often than not.

Also, "snakes" is, for me at least, a general term for any wandering independent stack, which are anything from a nuisance to a hazard to an aneurysm inducing aggravation (indie stacks, if left alone, tend to take flagged resources and unflag them, sometimes with critical results when resources are tight).

The reason for that term being "snakes" is in a hotseat MP game where we had something like three stacks of serpents, five or six stacks of snakes and sundry deer, boar and wolf stacks unflagging everything in sight and requiring two dedicated vermin extermination squads to keep under control.

Therefore, {deer, boar, wolf, serpent, soulless, longdead, ghoul, dispossessed spirit, giant ant, snake, bandit, brigand, etc} == snake

Seriously, one does need to plan garrison/extermination squads, since otherwise wandering independents will ruin your economy.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Also worth mentioning is that some wanderers can include Manticore, Griffins, Chimera, Beholder, and worst of all is Creeping Doom. Some things that you end up HAVING to leave wandering because it takes abit to get a force big enough to kill it. Pretty rough when you are also trying to gain enough resources to GET an army that can kill it. Early gathering can be a real game of chance.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

My experience with CoE2 was that only bandits, deer and wolves actually wandered. The rest of the indy's just stayed put where I found them. So you're saying that has been changed? :)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

The game is sounding more fantastic with each update and the more I learn about it. Honestly, just like with Dominions, it's as if Illwinter could read my mind and make a game just to meet my desires.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

So what about combat, is it the same autoresolved blob vs blob as in COE2 or there are some kind of improvements? I really wanted to like COE2, but combat killed it for me.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Blob vs Blob. In fact, even more so than Dom3. There are no formations. And you can only select spells from the wizards spell list but not script them.

On the other hand it does give the game much less micromanagement. It is meant to be simpler, faster, and quicker games. No "one turn a day" games for this one. There is lots of fun game play though

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Yes. There are wandering stacks of many sorts of independents and there are also sites that generate more independents who then go on to make nuisances of themselves. Flagging such structures puts a stop to those shenanigans until someone unflags it (so better leave a garrison if possible).

And like Gandalf said, some of the wandering independents can be really tough. A good starting army can take down a Manticore...maybe...if they're lucky...and if they have defensive terrain - or not. Some of the other stuff that can be found wandering on its own will makes a manticore look tame.

The early game can be a real game of chance (including if you chance to go in a wrong direction and find nothing while ini the opposite direction there would have been plenty...) and sometimes you just can't win.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

nordlys, the combat is similar to CoE2, except the graphics are much better and the mechanics are more transparent (as well as explained in the manual), which gives better opportunities to estimate how a given engagement may go (unless the enemy has invisible units you can't see, of course).

The basic rule of thumb is that there is no such thing as overkill.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Heehee. My basic rule of thumb on combats has been "if you think you army is twice as strong as his, then it might be worth trying"

And "pray that he attacks me first". If I can be in a defensive spot, and get the first round of combat for being the one attacked, then it helps a lot

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Will there be unit upkeep?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

No, there is not. The economics of the game preclude that or otherwise the income from everything would have to be increased 10x, which would create far more issues than it would solve.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

A few vids on utube would do a lot to help the game sales, the sooner the better :)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I'm dying for an update, it's been 9 days . . .

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

You think you are? Me too. But Im not going to comment on holiday time they might be taking.

But *drool* Im eager for a new version. The network stuff puts it back into one of my prime zones for testing. Plus I am REALLY eager to see what these "portals" are about.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

It's good to hear they're thinking with portals.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

We will see how it affects game play.
So far only one nation gets them. The Enchanter (which is one of my favorites)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Being Gandalf's favorite doesn't mean that it's easy to play by any means. In fact, the Enchanter is one of the most difficult classes to play, especially since depending on who all is in the game, they are likely to be one of the prime targets for everyone.

The reasons being that in the early game, before they've built up much of an army, they're going after and depleting resources other classes need long term and if they manage to get into the late game, they have some of the most powerful units in the game.

What Gandalf said about the network stuff is also true, it's his prime testing zone since he has the equipment to set up exactly what he wants and check how it all works, which is something I can't do.

In this respect we certainly have a definite distribution of duties.

Some of the things I'm interested in finding out is how to reliably gain access to higher level esoteric spells. Meaning higher level spells in magic paths that you can only gain through recruitment, charming or enslaving things. There probably isn't a reliable way, which may be all to the good, because some of those spells will put the fear of god and dread of monsters into anyone going up against them. Right now finding them out is only possible through the map editor, which itself needs some heavy duty testing.

There are some truly "You have GOT to be kidding me!" moments if you do run into them in-game, stuff that turns an inconsequential pushover into something you only come back to after summoning a few supercombatants, because one or two just might not be enough.

Best of all is if you run into such a thing randomly with your main army, which can happen if an esoteric mage gets created on the map with both a magic booster item and a stealth/invisibility item.

"Let's take this library, for the greater glory of - Hey! Where did he come from and what-"
*blinding flash of light followed by silence*
"And STAY away! Bloody interlopers... *muttering*"

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I think anyone who knows me from Dom3 knows I tend to love the underdogs. In this game it means I dont tend to go with the early-game powerhouse nations. Id rather play the survive-until-you-get-power nations.

Altho best IMHO is an alliance between early powerhouse and late game SCs.I like to play games with me allied to an AI. I love how the game allows allies to cooperate so much. And I love the cluster start switch where the allies start next to each other. With well-paired allies its a blast

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

By the way - is it too early to ask questions such :
Will it be available on linux? and Are you aiming to release it next year?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Yes. The development is on Linux, the Windows version is a port. There may be a Mac version as well later.

As for the schedule, only Johan and Kristoffer know that. However, it is safe to say that it will not be in 2011.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

*weeps*

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Current version is 2.86. Version 3.0 therefore counts as "later", so while we do not right now have one for testing, do not lose all hope. I actually don't know the schedule or the plans regarding that, so the best I can give you is an imprecise answer.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Linux to OS X is a much shorter jump than Linux to Windows.
Especially for versions after WinXP

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I am optimistic; their Mac support for Dominions has always been great. But it's never too early for some Mac gaming angst.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

They develop on a Unix system, and Unix to Unix ports are usually pretty easy. Mac is Unix based, it's Windows that isn't. As such, there is absolutely no cause to suspect there will be any issues whatsoever getting it to Mac, probably quickly.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I'm wondering, how is this game different from something like age of wonders shadow magic? (apart from age of wonders having better graphics etc).

The game has not been sold to me so far.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

At least will be finished and fully patched, unlike AOW:SM, which was promised to and never fulfilled. What a botch and disappointment that game it was.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Im not sure that I would make that prediction. Illwinter games tend not to be finished and fully patched on release. However they do tend to be eternally patched and upgraded for free.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Yeah, of course I meant over time :). Shadow Magic was told to receive more patches after the unfinished 1.3 and did not.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

We-ell, I do know at least one thing that CoE3 has and that Age of Wonders (in all its incarnations) lacked:

Mindless, immobile, fear immune magic mushrooms, which you can charm and which are frightened of going into battle!

I defy you to find a fantasy strategy game which can produce that combination without having it modded in! Not even in Dominions 3!

:D :D

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

So they are immune to fear, but are frightened of going into battle? Indeed our puny human language can't keep up with the ever expanding emotional states of the mindless magic mushroom population :)

Perhaps by eating some of these mindless magic mushrooms we may better gain insight into the world in which they exist in? Is that in-game?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

No. But I SURE wouldnt mind some wandering monster immune to their poison that liked eating mushrooms. They can be a real pain

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

This type of talk brings back memories of playing Angband and its variants. Hopefully there will be slimes and molds in CoE3 as well :)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

There are Molds. And Gelatinous Cubes.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

There are also new versions. The dev log announces v2.87 today. :D

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Dom3 still has a lot of bugs. And some GUI improvements would also be great. So lets not go there ;).

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Yes but many of the most common complaints about Dom3 are no longer easy patch fixes. They would require extensive rewriting which is one of the reasons I think the new project was started. To incorporate lessons learned.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Yes but many of the most common complaints about Age of wonders are no longer easy patch fixes. They would require extensive rewriting.

(See what I did there ;)).

So CoE3 will have good moddable AI then?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Can you choose fewer than 3 spells prepared for a level 2 caster? I just played my first games of COE2 and was pretty frustrated when my Necromancer would cast Finger of Death (target resists!) instead of lightning storm against a stack of swordsmen. It'd be really nice to tell them they can only cast the spell you think is most useful in the battle coming up instead of picking 2 less useful ones too.

Is it going to be rows of people COE2 style? Can you choose which rank your officers & soldiers go into, at least?

How similar to COE / Dominions is the recruiting?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Ummm, define good? ;)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Not sure about the moddable part.
But the AI is much better. Instead of one generic AI, each nation has their own and will make logical decisions that match that nation.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

No. But there are many chances in the game to increase the number of spells you can select from. So a favorite mage can easily be upgraded to where you have enough spells to choose ones you think are good.

The spell casting is equally random between those spells Im afraid. Other than we are continually tightening it so that spells wont be cast against units that are immune to that spell.


Afraid not. The rows go infantry, then pole arms, then shooters, and finally casters.

I dont remember CoE2 well enough so I will copare to Dom3.
You purchase from the available list. Each nation is different. There are always some items always available to you, and then specials that show up. So I might alternate between getting 5 infantry then 5 archers for awhile until a commander or wizard shows up available to get.

And you dont set numbers of purchases. They come in bundles. If that nations has it llisted as 5 infantry then that turn thats all you can get at that location.

And there are much less locations you can purchase units than in Dom3. The MicroManagement is far less even if you play on the "insanely huge" maximum size map.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

You cannot choose less than the maximum number of spells to memorize, but you can choose which spells you memorize. Mages will cast random spells from those memorized, but not completely useless spells (e.g. fireball against fire elementals, which are fire immune, or fire ward on own units if the enemy is entirely spearmen who have no fire attacks).

This is intentional, because otherwise the magic system would be wide open for abuse and many, many things would have to be severely nerfed. There are spells there, which would be instant, automatic "I win" buttons if they could be specified as the only spells being cast. That could vary situationally somewhat, but in general, the randomness factor is a good thing.

Think for example of the druid, who unsurprisingly has some spells to charm animals. A very large portion of independent monsters on the map are animals. Druid sets Command Beasts or Domestication (both aoe charm animal spells) as the only one being casts, then goes looking for large stacks of animals (who also have low magic resistance as a rule) and WHAM, instant army, I win, thank you, good night, hope you had a nice game.

There are other things which could be even more severely abused if not for random spellcasting. To the point where you might as well quit the game the instant an enemy mage shows up with that spell in his spell list.

The armies are largely rows of units in the same style as CoE2. Pure spellcasters are in the rearmost ranks. Missile units/spellcasters are in the rows second from the back (some monsters can cast spells, but count as ranged units instead of pure mages) and melee/ranged/spellcasters (units which are primarily classed melee, but can cast spells or also have missile weapons) are in the front ranks. The placement of commanders follows their classification (e.g. barbarian warlords lead from the first rank while captains, despite not having missile weapons, are grouped with the missile units).

Spellcasting from the first rank is very difficult, because the unit is engaged in melee. From the second rank they can cast spells as normal, the difficulty is only if they are in the first row.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Thanks for the great information, Gandalf and Edi!

Gandalf, that sounds exactly like COE2 recruiting. Does that mean if you're on the lookout for e.g. a scout that you have to go check the recruiting screen each turn until one shows up? In COE, there would be announcements when wizards or heroes were available for hiring but not for normal commanders. Do the commanders stick around for more than one turn if you don't hire them immediately?

Does the hammer resource represent Dom style resources? What is the brown resource (supplies?) that seems to be common to the characters?

So how does one level up the mages in this game? Are experience stars helpful to spell casters? I know there are booster items; do they make spellcasters go to a higher level or add more known spells? Is there also something equivalent to Dom empowering? We've seen what level 1 and 2 guys get on the screenshots, but what about level 3 or 4 casters?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Reacts to all player actions. Uses intelligent moves, and not just a large random generator (ps, a large random generator can work, if you just log which results worked and which didn't). Detects cheesy anti AI moves and counters them. etc.

Ow right, you wanted to bait me into trying to define something that could not be defined, amirite? ;)