Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Horrors cant be permanently killed?

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Well, each hit on him probably has a horror mark chance. (I assume a MR check is made, just like blood vengeance). The last form has this ability with the number 7 added to it. Which is probably a MR malus. So you get a mr check against 19 for the last form.

And yeah, if your pretender is marked, you always have a high chance of getting a horror attack. And the upgrade to doom horrors is likely. I think I saw the maker of ruins. Instakilled my poor druid lord pretender.

Pretenders are special cases sadly. (Or thankfully, as it depends on which side of the pretender you are ;) ).

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Of course they can. But the astral plane as an unlimited amount of doom horrors.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

With the same name?

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Yeah. So there is no way to permanently get rid of the horrors. (But if you want to change the mechanics, in a quick way, remove the call horror spells, the horror marking ones and mod the different horrors to have horrible stats.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

A generic Horror has 18 attack skill and 4 attacks. This means you want to have more than 24 defense if at all possible. You also want to have luck, and to be able to kill the horror on the first round of attacks to minimize its chances of being able to hit you.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Honestly Question, if horrors are ruining your game and you aren't having fun, why not just start another one? Especially if it's SP; it kind of sucks to just drop out of a MP game if you aren't on the verge of death but no one cares what you do in your SP games. I am currently playing 2 MP games (my first ever, which I must say are a lot more fun than SP with diplomacy and all) but I also like to have a SP game going just to mess around and try things out. The minute I stop having fun with it though (Pretender gets killed through some stupid event, the enemy shows up at my doorstep with an army of 750 troops in like turn 20), I just delete it and start a new one. They are good learning experiences for things like this, namely that horror marks, afflictions, and curses can really eff up even the most well designed and powerful creature, so it's best to just try and avoid them. At the same token, if you run into a game where the enemy is throwing some incredible SC at you, you now know there are ways to neutralize it somewhat.

Anyway there are a lot of quirks and such to Dominions 3, but if you like most of the basic mechanics, there is a lot of fun to be had. If you want to mess around with some extra-powerful units, try the AwesomeGods mod and the Epic Heroes mods; just tried them for the first time and loving them, though I don't know how imbalanced they might make a MP game.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

I should add that in my most complete SP game ever, I tried to use my 10D Prince of Death as a SC without really gearing him up very well. He ended up dying a bunch of times and I had to keep wasting time calling him back. Eventually, when he had four afflictions that made him a useless combatant, I threw him in a lab for research and summoning. He was basically able to create undead armies on his own as well as to cause destruction in enemy provinces in the late game with leprosy and Ghost Riders, when all I really thought he'd be doing was scaring enemies away as a combatant with fear. Just saying that a gimped Pretender CAN still be a lot of fun, maybe just not in the way you pictured.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

My main issue with it is that if you buy a combat pretender, you only get to use him for a limited time before afflictions and horror marks render him useless (mute/feeble mind even destroys his ability to research or summon).

Meanwhile if i pay for a 0 pt cost archmage or other equavelent, i can use him from the start for research, site searching and mage support in combat, and hes likely to be safe in the backrow.

One thing i noticed about spells like legion of steel and other AOE : 25 spells is that when my mage casts the spell, only a limited number of units in the squad seems to be getting buffed. Typically this is the center-back rows of the block...the front rows of the block dont seem to be getting the buff at all, even though the graphic effect is large enough to cover them. And if i script mages to cast the spell more than once, it still doesnt help. Why?

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

I should also add : I have had the most success using rainbow archmges and the llike so far. Having 4 or 5 paths at level 4 is great for site searching and makes your pretender really versatile for casting and item crafting.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Horror marks: Can be avoided, if careful.

Afflictions: This is why you want regeneration. One reason anyways, Regen is pretty nice in general.

Limited time: Ignoring the ways around this early, eventually your pretender will be outclassed by something. All it takes is that first Tartarian, and in some cases not even that. However, the provinces you had earlier mean your economy is growing faster, which provides an advantage throughout the game.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

How do you avoid horror marks then? I thought theres no way to resist it, other than hoping the AI marks the wrong unit.

Is there any way to deal with unit killing global enchantments if you do not have astral magic to dispell them? Things like call of the wild, the kindly ones, etc. My pretender managed to kill one of kindly ones by luck (spirit helmet lightning bolts), but ended up with 5 afflictions in the process.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Page 87 of your manual tells you all you want to know.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Horror Mark Avoidance: Hit nations without astral magic with SC pretenders. You need astral 1 to horror mark, which means that several nations simply can't do it. Eventually, they may break into Astral magic from a position of none (which is a pain to do), but not early enough for your pretender to be the big thing you have going for you.

Globals: Overload them with one of your own. Admittedly, its a bit haphazard, but then, if you overload with Gift of Health in particular it can help your units survive longer.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

You can also try killing them, that will make them go away.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Killing who? If you mean whoever has the capacity to horror mark you, then yes, that does fix that problem, though you won't want to use stuff you don't want horror marked to do it. If you mean killing whatever you has that is horror marked, it doesn't work. Horror mark remains through death, and can't be removed.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

I think "killing them" was for globals.

Kill the caster, the global goes away. Often tricky without just destroying the nation.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Yeah, I meant killing the global casters, or for example with the armada you dispel the global if you defeat it in combat.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Depending on the global and the nation, you can sometimes fire off a bunch of remote attack spells and hope you get lucky. For instance, hitting every fortress with a bunch of Mind Hunts can go surprisingly far for a nation with no astral, particularly if you can heal anyone who gets feebleminded. If dealing with a human nation, Earth Attack can go surprisingly far. So on and so forth.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

how do u know its the 87th page? its enormous! have you read it ALL?

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

He is the SOYWEISER.

Do not embark on the vain quest to understand those which is beyond your feeble reach, know your place.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Come on people, a user named question asking constant questions that are in the manual? Looks a bit like a troll to me.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

All this questioning does bring a question to mind, why can't I fit more than one Joton Herse in a square, yet I can fit 6 Holburgs in a square?

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

It's probably your monitor resolution. Try a different graphics mode!

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Thanks!

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

I tried that but now the giants look overweight. This would be okay except their encumbrance is still the same, is there anyway I can mod their encumbrance so that they get puffed like overweight giants should?

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Doo, page 10 of the modding manual explains all!

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Thanks!

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Sry, do you mean page ten of the pdf or page ten of the modding manual, as they are different? In the manual the cover and contents page are not numbered but they are pages one and two in the pdf.

Sry for the confusion, I'm new to this ;)

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Don't worry, I found the answer on the wiki!

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

It is a safe bet that any accomplished MP player has read the entire manual, possibly skipping the spell and item appendices if he's a Dom 2 veteran and feeling really sure of himself.

...and that many have not merely read the entire manual, but memorized it, making them living encyclopaedias. I know I did. The manual contains lots of errors and omissions, but it is remains even now, years after the game's release, the best place to learn the fundamentals of the game mechanics.

Diplomacy and intrigue can only carry you so far when you are up against real opposition; to consistently do well you need to know how the game works.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Actually the wiki only lists something like 10 errors.
As far as omissions, that probably depends on the definition. Most of what was left out was done on purpose. But since there have been 5 years of updates and patches there is quite a few things out of date in the manual. Entire nations are not in the manual.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Actually, the wiki lists a lot more. Sure only 15 are major issues. But the manual does contain a lot of errors or strange omissions. Saying it was done on purpose is a bit of an easy excuse now is it?

But please, check your facts Gandalf, the wiki contains a lot more than just 10. http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Manual_errata

And lets not forget the example strategies, which if used guarantee that you will not win the game ;).

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

I do agree that dying shouldn't wipe out horror marks but I have my doubts as to whether pretenders should subject to things like horror marks or Ry'leh dominion.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

I see the idea around the gameplay is that nothing can become unbeatable. If something becomes really tough, horror mark it and its no longer the long-term threat it was.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

True..

Doubly so since those marks seem uncanny at focusing on the pretender/SC midst all the rabble.

-ssj

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

They go for large size and high HP. With some creative summoning you can get decoys.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

The problem is that it seems wrong that pretenders are vulnerable to such things. I'm not saying they aren't vulnerable to damage, it's just the permanent stuff bothers me.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

I hated it at first too, it felt wrong in a computer game like this that I couldn't heal those afflictions, curses and horror marks that my lovely pretender, unique summons and heroes accumulated. They were my babies that I nursed up to 4 stars and kitted out with only the best equipment at the time. Now my thugs have base encumbrance of 10 and rainbow mage is feeble-minded.

Insert expletive here. And another expletive, and another!

Now I actually like it because it because imagination-wise it creates a richer story, the pathless pretender wrymm with so many afflictions all it can do is sit gasping for air, yet it is endlessly thrown back into battle by its believers and called back from death again and again. The living vegetable god who used to be the most powerful mage in the land, and will be again once it truly becomes the god (or the healers fix it or the nation gains access to nature ect.,).

Very annoying when it happens in the early game but thats life. Just be sure to do it to them first ;)

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Dominions3 seems to have a link back to classic greek storytelling in that there is a common element of tragedy to much of what happens. The fact that so much comedy also happens in many Dominions games only makes that case stronger.

Sometimes the tragedy and the comedy all come in one neat little package (losing the use of your best thug when he gets hero status and acquires Heroic Obesity! Amusing, and yet so tragic!).

None of your units are immune. And the stakes that your pretender is playing for simply increase the likelihood for an even greater tragedy in the end. Only one pretender is going to become the Pantokrator of [This World] - the rest are going to fall prey to all sorts of lesser fates along the way, including possibly being gobbled up by horrors.

Now, imagine the comedy (and tragedy?) of the pretender who becomes Pantokrator in spite of his insanely high level of horror marks. Imagine him being a weak little rainbow, who is killed on the first round every time he meets even a lesser horror - and yet his followers re-summon him time and time again.

"At last, all of these lesser religions have been wiped out! I rule this world!"

*Eater of Gods shows up*

"Not again!"

*dies*

The Prophet of The Great and Most Persistent Re-Appearing Rainbow sighs. Time to get the priesthood together for more god summoning. Again.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

There's also a lovecraftian element here with the horrors:

They're not beings from our existence, they don't obey the laws that govern our dimension and thus they don't care what is horror-marked, just that it is. It's not clear where they come from...which is totally cool.

Another thing to remember is that none of the pretenders are true gods, they're just powerful beings that have attracted a nation of followers; perhaps the Pantokrator could remove horror-marks and curses....

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

I disagree--how can a living vegetable ascend to godhood??

I have no problem with the curses/horror marks/insanity in general, it's *ONLY* with the pretender that it feels wrong.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

The same way a wooden totem ascends to godhood? People believe, it is enough. (Well, and compel everyone else to believe).

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Don't forget the large underwater fungus. All praise the large underwater fungus, for it is God, and the ancient kelp is its prophet!

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Are you mocking the great one? You had best not done that Deathblob.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Try forging items which make your god ethereal and other such items.
btw i am new here

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

I tried that but I never inhaled.

Welcome to the forums.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Godhood is not based on the actions of a unit. They are based on the worship of the populace.
That is how a big rock, or a giant fungus, or a fountain become something more. They are not worshiped because they are more. They are more because they are worshiped.

It is also why pretender-gods (in vanilla) cannot bless, or be blessed, or build temples to themselves. And why they are boosted within the area of their worship (dominion)

And if all other pretender-gods are wiped out so that this is the only thing being worshiped, it ascends to godhood. It does not choose to, its forced to.

Re: Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game
 

Well said.

Forced to become a god, geez some people have it tough :)