Re: Anomaly reports
 

To the BTR-50 APC variant C2 P20 easy to support.
1. From the USA Infantry Training course. Note the reference sources at the top of the second ref.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...in0534_top.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...n0534/lsn2.htm
I believe I've posted this a year or two ago in the APC thread as source info for you "game designers" as I remember Don used it and still might as a ref source. Glad to do so again. And a note about JANE's here, the editions we bought were not necessarily the one you can buy on the open market-savvy!?! Some have said I served with Capt. Jack Sparrow anyway...

2. Did I ever mention a lot of their info comes from some Russian guys? Anyway always a great go too site and very accurate and and first to report on equipment regularly.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_50.htm

3. Also another good site almost on par with globalsecurity.org.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/btr-50.htm

4. Also a very good site and he's not afraid to list his references note these at the bottom.
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/inf/BTR-50.html

5. Again source refs at the bottom.
http://www.armscontrol.ru/atmtc/Arms...t_Vehicles.htm

6. Now we can address the added armor and personnel issue as it concerns the BTR-50PK this version has the armored roof with C2 P8. This version was not as numerous as the the 50 or 50P ones as the BTR-60 was soon to replace it. But I don't want you to take my word for it, better to take the word of the company that made them for the Soviets in the first place and does the modernization work on them now. I think some might recognize this source. Note KMDB uses Crew 10 across the top of the table.
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/btr50.php
I'm almost willing to bet the product line in the left corner might just have some useful info in it, just a guess on my part though!?!

This was a warm up for my work to come and an exercise to make a point. Those that "know" me understand the point I made here, and some will never get it. No Wiki, Blogs or other such and I still have some more but I'm ready for bed. I did have a great day with family, a couple of old shipmates and friends, I hope you will as well!
:cheers:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Onwards & upwards - the paras.

Class 96 – Paratroops

Switzerland 310 have Size 1, and Crew 4.

6-man units are evenly split: Belgium 534 & 535 and Libya 430-432 are Size 0, Finland 490-496 are Size 1.

Norway 412 has 100 Weapon 1 rounds. I only mention it because it’s the first time I’ve seen a 100-rd small arm.

Norway 409 & 410 and Greece 307 have 16 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds, and 9 Crew.

UK 104 & 105 have 30 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds, and 8 Crew.

Greece 305 has 16 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds, and 9 Crew.

Canada 487 & 488 have 20 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds, and 8 Crew.

Russia 83 & 84 have 32 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds, and 7 Crew.


Class 97 – Para Support

Sweden 238, 239, 242 & 243 have Weight 1 – they are all 3-man units.

Sweden 237 has 4 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds, and 3 crew.


Class 98 – Para Light Infantry

Belgium 540, 541 & 549 have Size 0, Crew 6.

Portugal 553 & 554 have Size 1, Crew 5. Other similar (Portuguese) have Size 0. Admittedly these are the only ones with 2 60mm mortars.

Red 457 has 10 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds, and 6 Crew.


Class 99 – Para Medium Infantry

Canada 471 & 472 have 16 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds, and 10 Crew.


Class 100 – Para SMG

As this is only used by France, and France has no Class 97 Units, you could save yourselves a class here. I don’t know how difficult it would be, but personally I’d love to see another cavalry class . . .(dream on :>)

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

As I've said, the manual, published by the Soviet MoD in 1963, states, that both variants (P and PK) can carry 20 soldiers with full combat equipment. I have an impression, that you think, that for some reason I'm lying to you, trying to convince you to change BTR-50PK's load :confused: In any case, I'm attaching the first and 4th page of manual - I didn't produce this document myself.

As for http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...n0534/lsn2.htm - though the capacity refers explicitly to BTR-50P, they don't say, that BTR-50PK had lower capacity. BTR-50PK was definitely more popular variant, being a mainstay of tank divisions, replaced by BMP-1, not BTR-60. By the way, standard armament according to manual was 7.62mm SGMB, not 12.7 DShK.

As for http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/btr50.php - well, crew of 10 is an apparent error, and I don't even know what they meant by "crew". Maybe if each trooper had comfortable shockproof individual seat, it would be 10 indeed. The Czechs carried 16 men inside (including crew).

I'm not saying, that I KNOW how many troops BTR-50PK could accommodate - I can only quote a first-hand source, while lower number is only a supposition. Do what you think is right.

Regards
Michal

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Motorcycles

Class 49 – Motorcycles

Size – 2 schools of thought here, by the look of it. One that says ‘units of 4 men or less should always be size 0’, and one that goes for size 1. I know I made a case earlier for size 0 small bicycle units but unless it has a highly baffled exhaust, you can’t hide the noise of a motorcycle, and in dry conditions it will also kick up dust. So I’d favour size 1.
The size 0 units are:- Italy 290 & 291, Switzerland 502-504 and 641-647.
Sweden 73 is size 2 (2-man unit).

Italy 290 & 291 have no Lift Capacity. Of all the units here, I would have thought they were more able than most to carry bodies (although maybe not with 3 crew).

Switzerland 642 & 643 have Lift Capacity 3 – do I assume sidecars?

Poland 780, N.Korea 655, E.Germany 239 & Czech 201 have Lift Capacity 106. 3 motorbikes towing a gun – hmmm. Or do they need this to carry their Mech Scouts?

Israel 379, Switzerland 502-504 and 644-647 all have RoF less than 9, even though they have small arms as their primary weapon.

Mujahadeen 471, E.Germany 655-658, Switzerland 502-504 & 641-647 all have Weight less than 10. Does the same rule apply to motorcycles as to other vehicles, ie minimum 10? From the look of Class 187, the answer is no.

E.Germany 655-658 are 1-man, unarmed units. Don’t think I’ll be buying any in a hurry . . .


Class 187 – Light Motorcycles

Size 0 units – Afghanistan 605-610, Italy 292-294.

Jordan 485 has Lift Capacity 2, all others have 0.

Cuba 510-513 & Portugal 313 have 6 Weapon 2 (Hand Grenade) rounds, and 4 Crew.

Uruguay 260-262 have 8 Weapon 2 and 8 Weapon 3 (both Hand Grenade) rounds, and 5 Crew.

Portugal 314 has 6 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds, and 4 Crew.


Class 188 – Heavy Motorcycles

Sweden 72 has Weight 10. All others apart from the Quad Bikes have 0.

S.Africa 295-297 have 10 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds, and 9 Crew.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

I've just tested the Czech motorcycles - they load fine with a Lift Capacity of just 6. As the other oobs I mentioned appear to be clones, I'm assuming they will do likewise.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

What we have ( and I'm done with this as of right now ) is nitpicking by source. Any disagreement or doubt is directed at the source and waving one source around like it's the holy grail is a waste of time. We could spend the rest of our lives ( and I have no intention of doing that ) "debating" the merits of one source over another and I could spend the rest of my life making corrections to the OOB's based on whoever just popped up with a new source ( and I have NO intention of doing that either )

Let's look at one historically popular vehicle and some "sources" for a moment

One would think 66 years after the last one was made and hundreds of thousands of pages written about the vehicle that all sources would agree on the road speed of a Tiger 1 yet one on line source of detailed information says the Max level road speed is 28 mph or 45 kph whereas another well used on line source the same thing but adds that this was not recommended for normal operation

I have a Profile Publication that gives the max road speed as 23 MPH ( 37 kph ) and I have a Weapons of World War 2 encyclopedia that claims it's 38 kph ( 24 MPH ) and another encyclopedia that says it's 37 kmh and 23 mph.

So much for "sources" but in this case it's a safe bet 37 or 38 is close enough but when you convert that to game speeds 37 = 12.33 which is rounded to 12 and 38 = 12.66 which rounds up to 13 and I have NO DOUBT there are people who think it should be 15 because the Fprado webpage says the Max level road speed is 28 mph /45 kph . The just haven't shown up yet, but they will and I have no double there are other sources that differ from these numbers. ( and Prado is quoting those numbers from another "source" )

If I had more time and a staff of 10 I would keep a record of each unit in each nation and note the changes made and who asked they be made then let anyone who disagrees argue it out with them but I don't but I do know the Russian OOB was seriously gone over a few years back so if anything in any other OOB differs from the Russian OOB values the Russian OOB values will be the correction.

We still have some OOB's using NATO names for equipment. Andy prefers NATO names and I prefer the Russian designations and it's a PITA to keep the weapon specs in all the OOB's the same when Iglas are named "Gimlet" but that goes off topic.

The point is, no matter what, somebody will have a source that differs from somebody else's source. When the Russian OOB was redone the BTR-50PK's were very specifically given a 114 carry cap and the rest 120.


Don

Re: Anomaly reports
 

I understand, that you must be very busy coordinating all OOBs and deciding, what changes should be made and if they are justified. However, it's not, that I'm waving one source against another - there is only one official and first-hand source, which is a military manual, and it's backed up by works of Russian experts, like M. Baryatynski. On the other hand, there are no sources for lower number - only suppositions or opinions of people, who had improved the Russian OOB before, impossible to track now. There is no reason to deny the officially given number, since it concerns a feature easy to be verified by APC users, not as vague, as (for example) speed.

You all did a great work, I myself joined SPMBT only recently, but I see some things, that could be improved or corrected to bring the game as close to historical truth as possible. And I'm treating it serious. I'm interested in military stuff, mostly Warsaw pact, for some 25 years, and I have some knowledge, backed up by local sources. You may decide to change the number of BTR-50's troops or not, I won't be offended - but the decision shouldn't be made on a basis, that somebody once stated it as 14 soldiers so it must be true, contrary to reliable sources.

To end the dispute on BTR-50, I've made a simulation of placing soldiers on five known benches. The soldiers (taken from Bradley) are 50 cm wide, but they could be even wider. I hope it proves, that it was possible, although of course uncomfortable (and not used in practice too often).

I must however admit, that I've found a side effect of increasing BTR's capacity: when deploying an unit, two sections go to one APC, leaving another one empty. In fact, the Czechoslovak Army in the 1960s used two APC for three 7-men sections this way (I was going to propose appropriate changes). I don't know, how about the Soviet Army, but I assume it had to be similar with such capacious vehicles. It however would demand further changes in formations, for which I have no sources.

Please, let me know, if you're interested in further suggestions what to improve in Eastern European OOBs, so I know if to devote my time to it further (I have some half-ready ones).

Regards
Michal Derela

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Right now I have MORE than enough to keep me busy until the end of winter.

Don

Re: Anomaly reports
 

To keep Don warm (or overheated) in the cold winter:

Finnish OOB, unit 474:
Sissi Section, 1/83-1/87
Weapon 3 is Apilas (not in use at that time)

suggested replacement: 66 KeS Orak (M72 LAW), 2-4 pieces.

Unit: 574
AGL Nest, 1/99-12/120
Weapon 1 & 2: 30mm AGS-17 GL (Finnish designation 30mm KrKK 93)
replaced by 40mm KrKK 05 (US designation MK-19) in 2005

RDF (Rapid Deployment Force) seems to be a bit undervalued compared to other troops, such as Sissi Co or Coast Jaeger Co, which consist of regular conscripts. RDF Co should probably have higher experience and morale than Sissi Co, but similar to Para and lower than Special Jaegers. They're more trained and usually have experience from peace keeping missions abroad.

Current values (Exp/morale)
RDF Co: 3/0
Sissi Co: 5/10
Coast Jaeger Co: 5/5
Para Co: 10/10
Special Jg: 15/15

Suggestion: I believe that 10/10 or 15/10 would present them properly.


Formation 052: MBT Company
Consists of 2 Leopard 2A4S's and 3 platoons of T-72s, which I find quite odd. T-72 is no longer in active service and so I would think that this should be consisting of 3 platoons of MBTs. MBT Platoon is not used in any formation.

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Back live. SP Mortars to start with:-

Class 38 – SP Mortars

Switzerland 626 & 770 (Bison) are in this class, but they appear as fortifications. The following units (2 Bison) are Class 156 (Off-Map Heavy Artillery). They have Speed 0, so they aren’t SP-ing anywhere in a hurry. Typo?

Switzerland 760-765 are also Speed 0, and are called ‘Moerser Festung’, or Mortar Fortress. If the oob designer wanted to distinguish them from vanilla bunkers, they could be changed to Class 152.

EE-11 – Brazil 57 has Crew 4, Green 512 has 6.

Type YW 304 (& derivatives) – Iran 202 has Survivability 3, others have 4.

VTT PM – France 439 & Ecuador 57 have Crew 6, Gulf 215 & 216 have 5; France 440, Belgium 33 and Saudi 215 & 216 have 3. The correct number (for both versions) is, I think, 6.
France 439 & 440 and Ecuador 57 have Speed 21, others have 22. I think 21 is correct.
Belgium 33 has Survivability 3, others have 4. It also has armour stats 6/3/2/3/3/2/1, others have 4/2/2/4/2/2/1.
Gulf 215 has 80 81mm rounds, others have 88.

MT-LB 82mm – S.Yemen 217 has Crew 5, others have 4.
Red 125 has Survivability 4, others have 3.
Czech 35 & Hungary 35 have RoF 9, Ukraine 590 has 8, others have 7.
Iraq 220 & S.Yemen 217 have 48 Weapon 1 (Mortar) rounds, Poland 35, Czech 35 & Hungary 35 have 50, Red 125 & Ukraine 590 have 60.

MT-LB 120mm – Russia 592 & Red 126 have Survivability 4, others have 3.
Czech 405 & 406 and Hungary 405 have RoF 8, others have 5.
Russia 592 has 60 Weapon 1 (Mortar) rounds, Iraq 221 has 42, others have 40. I don’t know whether the fact that they are different mortars makes a difference.
Russia 592, Iraq 221, Red 126 & Ukraine 592 have 120 Weapon 2 (PKT TMG) rounds, others have 90.

MT-LB Vasilek – Poland 406 has Survivability 3, Russia 591 has 4. Standard for MT-LBs appears to be 3.
Polish & Russian versions have Crew 5, Hungary 406 & Ukraine 591 have 4. Hungary & Ukraine also have Speed 22, others 20.
Hungary & Ukraine have 50/10 Weapon 1 HE/HEAT rounds, others have 74/6.
Poland 406 & Hungary 406 have 90 Weapon 2 (PKT TMG) rounds, Russia 591 & Ukraine 591 have 120.

2S4 – Russia 589 has Size 5, Crew 5, Speed 21, Swim Speed 0, Load Cost 27. Others have 3/4/18/2/10. Russian unit also has no top armour, others have 1.
Other units are Syria 335, Czech 417 & Ukraine 589.
Syria 335 has Survivability 3, others have 4.
Iraq 223 has different stats from the others, but also has a different name (2S1 – 240).

M3 60mm – S.Korea 210 has Survivability 0, other M3-based mortar carriers have 3.

M3 Series 81mm – Greece 79 has Crew 5, France 433, and Argentina 54 & 55 have 6; Israel 500, UK 420, Jordan 290, Iran 200, Denmark 30, Brazil 55 & Chile 55 have 4. I suspect 6 is correct.
France 433 has Speed 22; UK, Jordan, Iran, Greece & Denmark have 18, the remainder 24. I know the International Harvester version had a different engine from the original, so this may account for the difference.
Greece 79 & Denmark 30 have RoF 8, others 7.
France 433 has 97 Weapon 1 (Mortar) rounds, Greece 79 has 66, the remainder have 60.

M3/M4 107mm – UK 419 has Crew 4 & RoF 6, Italy 59 has 5/7. UK 419 has 40 Weapon 1 (Mortar) rounds, Italy 59 has 66.

M21 – Austria 29, Cambodia 270 & 271, Lebanon 200, Ecuador 55, El Salvador 55, Nicaragua 55 & 56, and Peru 55 have Crew 4, S.Yemen 215 & 216 have 5, others have 6.
USA 505, S.Korea 211, Taiwan 211 & Belgium 31 have Speed 22, others have 24.
Ecuador 55 has Lift Capacity 2, others have 0.
Thailand 229 has RoF 8, others have 7.
S.Yemen 215 & 216 have 48 Weapon 1 (Mortar) rounds; USA 505, S.Korea 211, Taiwan 211 & Belgium 31 have 97, all others have 60.

M106 – Taiwan 212 has Crew 6, Italy 61 has 4, others have 3.
S.Korea 212, Taiwan 212, Norway 27, Italy 61 & Denmark 32 have Speed 23, others have 21.
Italy 61 has Weight 12, others have 10.
Italy 61 & Cambodia 272 have RoF 7, others have 6. Denmark 32 has RoF 8 (should be 7 for standard 81mm mortar).
Italy 61 has 86 Weapon 1 rounds, others have 88. It also has top armour 0, others have 1.

M106A1 – Crews are mixed. Portugal 41 & Peru 56 have 4, Gulf 218 has 5, Thailand 232 has 6, the rest have 3. This video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zH_a...eature=related appears to show a crew of 4 on a M106A2. Those with 3 crew are:- USA 32, Belgium 32, Netherlands 64, Greece 83 & Saudi 219.
Belgium 32 has Survivability 3, others have 4.
Greece 83, Thailand 232 & Saudi 219 have RoF 7, others have 6.
Belgium 32 & Portugal 41 have 50 Weapon 1 rounds, Netherlands 64 has 86, others have 88.

M106A2 – Crews are:- Egypt 361 has 2, Israel 505, USA 31 and Greece 84 & 85 have 3, Argentina 56 has 6. See above.
Egypt 361 has Speed 21, others have 23.
Greece 84 & 85 have RoF 7, others have 6. NB Greece 85 has a 120mm mortar.
Egypt 361 has Weapon 1 ammo 60, others have 88.

M106A3 – USA 38 has Speed 20, Chile 56 has 23. Both have Crew 3 (see above). Armour for US version is 5/4/3//4/3/2, for Chilean 3/2/1/3/2/1/1.

M125 – Greece 80 has RoF 8, standard 81mm is 7.
Jordan 292 has 60 Weapon 1 rounds, Greece 80 has 114. I believe the correct loadout is 114 (www.afvdb.com).

M125A1 – Crews are mixed:- Iran 201, Denmark 31 & Saudi 217 have 3, Brazil 56 & Portugal 40 have 4, Gulf 217 has 5, Taiwan 213 & Thailand 230 have 6.
Spain 71 & Denmark 31 have RoF 9, Thailand 230 has 8, others have 7.
Iran 201, Gulf 217, Denmark 31 & Portugal 40 have 60 Weapon 1 (Mortar) rounds, Saudi 217 has 69, the remainder have 114 (qv M125).

M125A2 – Lebanon 201 has Crew 4, others have 3.
Egypt 362 has Speed 21, others have 23.

M1064 – Crews are mixed:- Egypt 360 has 2, USA 33, Iraq 219, Saudi 220 & N.Yemen 216 have 3, Italy 62 & 63 have 4, Gulf 220 has 5, Argentina 57 & Thailand 233 have what I believe to be the correct figure of 6 (So does www.fas.org).
Egypt 360 has Speed 21, all others have 23.
Gulf 220 & Saudi 220 have Survivability 3, all others have 4.
Italy 62 & 63 have Weight 12, others have 10.
USA 33, Iraq 219, Italy 62 & 63 have RoF 6, others have the standard 120mm RoF of 5.
Weapon 1 loadouts vary from 40 to 69. However, Egypt 360 has 90 rounds, which is more than are carried by the 107mm-armed M106. Egypt is also the only version to have vision (20).
Maybe by way of compensation, the Egyptian version has only 60 Weapon 2 rounds, others have 90.
Italy 62 & 63 have no top armour, others have 1.

M113 Mortar Carriers (undefined):- Netherlands 65, Spain 70, Cambodia 269 & Nicaragua 57 have Crew 3, Ecuador 56 has 4. All have Speed 20.
Spain 70 has RoF 8, with a 120mm mortar. It also carries 69 Weapon 1 rounds (standard loadout for a 120mm is 40). It also has no top armour, standard is 1.


Class 133 – Light SP Mortar.

M125A1 – Pakistan 58 & Turkey 71 have RoF 8, others have 7.

M113 Mortar Carriers – ARVN 237, Turkey 72 & 73 have RoF 9 (standard 81mm mortar is 7).

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Mortars in all their guises . . .

Class 5 – Mortars

Argentina 506 has Size 0, all others have 1.

Chad 61 has Speed 5, the standard for 60mm mortars is 3.

Uruguay 106 has Speed 0, standard for 107mm mortars is 1.

Poland 510, Nigeria 69, Sudan 80 & 82 and Uruguay 105 have Speed 3, standard for 81/82mm mortar sections is 2.

Switzerland 174, 175, 721 & 729 are the only units with a Vision figure (10).

Libya 84 & 85 have RoF 7, standard for 107mm mortars is 6.

NVA 72-74, Pakistan 84, Greece 137-139, Turkey 117 & 118, Hungary 510-513, Romania 70, 75 & 76, Libya 80-83 and Ethiopia 82 & 87 have RoF 8, standard for 81/82mm mortars is 7.


Class 152 – Heavy Mortars

France 429 – should this be classed as a Heavy Mortar?

105mm Mortars – Denmark 104 has Crew 12, others have 8.

107mm Mortars – Pakistan 80 & Indonesia 66 have Weight 2, others have 1.
India 83 has Crew 10, others have 8.
Cyprus 77 has Speed 2, others have 1.
Greece 141 & 142, Turkey 120 & 121 and Ethiopia 84 have RoF 7, others have 6.

120mm Mortar – PLO 74 & 75 have RoF 7, Libya 87 has 6, others have 5.
S.Yemen 87 has Weight 1, others have 2.
Argentina 63, Brazil 63 & 64 and Chile 63 have 25 Weapon 1 rounds, Uruguay 107 has 30, Italy 111 & 112 have 50, others have 40.

120mm Mortars – Greece 143 has RoF 7, USA 86, NVA 76, Turkey 123 & 124, Hungary 515-518, Libya 86 & Ethiopia 86 have 6, Romania 78-80 have 4, others have 5.
Sudan 88 has Weight 3, others have 2.
Jordan 87 has Crew 8, Turkey 123 & 124 have 10, others have 12.
Romania 79 has Speed 0, others have 1.
France 413 and Sudan 86-89 have 30 Weapon 1 & 2 rounds, others have 40.

160mm Mortar – Czech 520 & 521 and Hungary 520 have Size 2, others have 1.
PLO 77 & Ecuador 63 have Weight 2, Albania 64 has 4, others have 3.
NVA 79, Czech 520 & 521, Hungary 520 & Libya 88 have RoF 4, others have 3.
PLO 77 has 20 Weapon 1 rounds, others have 24.

160mm Mortars – Romania 335 has Size 3, Crew 8, Weight 0 & RoF 4, others have 1/16/3/3
Yugoslavia 310-312 have 20 Weapon 1 & 2 rounds, others have 24..

240mm Mortar – Libya 89 has Size 1, Crew 12 & Weight 3, others have 4/10/4.
Russia 438 has RoF 2, others have 3.
Hungary 524 has 15 Weapon 1 rounds, others have 20.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

I would appreciate the advice more if the "adviser" understood the game better. These units were added in this way as an acceptable compromise because they are special bunkers and therefore need armour ratings. UC 152 is an infantry class and therefore does not accept armour ratings and this is why all of those units are stationary "SP" mortars because they need to work as mortars and they need armour and that class covers that critera and was not being used.

Also, given they have the range to operate off map they are available for that use as off map arty and none of them are "SP" at all that's just the best class available to use and we all knew they weren't "SP-ing anywhere" when Peter added them to the Swiss OOB but thought, given the names of the units and Icons used that would have been obvious.


It saves using up four slots using class Mortar(Sub Type B) just to make an 81mm mortar unit UC 152 for four years to cover the Legion Spt Pl that it was intended to cover. The "error" was sometime in the past somebody pushed the start date for all French Hvy mortars back to 1946.



Don

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Don

I have never set myself up as an 'advisor', these were merely thoughts about an oob which I suspect even you will admit is somewhat out of the ordinary. It is nothing to do with my understanding of the game, indeed I would be surprised if many people realised what the situation was until you explained it.

Let me put it clearly: I don't have to do this exercise, but thought it might be of assistance, as Andy also suggested. However, your attitude does not put me in the frame of mind to continue to try and save you a considerable amount of hard work.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

In the nearly 14 years I have been doing this I have found , in most cases ( there are exceptions ) the correctors rarely like being corrected back. If you feel qualified to offer page after page after page of "Anomaly reports" then expect to be corrected from time to time when it's obvious you don't have experience in OOB design. If you did you wouldn't suggest an infantry unit class should be given armour ratings. It would seem it's OK to tell us we are in error but not the other way round because that's "attitude". Would it help if I sprinkled more of these around ??:):):):)

Everything in that post was an explanation of why it was done the way it was done and I only bothered to comment, so perhaps it doesn't happen again, because those two points caught my eye when I was cutting and pasting the info to our "to-check" list .

If you choose to continue your project and make incorrect assumptions expect to be corrected again . If you consider that "attitude" then so be it.:)


Don

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Don't take Don personally.
I have a permanent imprint of his teeth in my arse :fish:

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Right next to the USMC tattoo ......:smirk:

Re: Anomaly reports
 

@ Suhiir

Thanks for the reality check!

@ Don

I expect corrections, indeed I welcome them, because it improves my knowledge and understanding. However, there are ways and ways of going about them, and to say that I do not understand OOB design merely because I misread a couple of units in a reworked oob is both unfair and unwarranted. You may recall that you were happy enough to take on board my amendments to the Dutch oob in WW2 a few years back . . . . I've actually been at this almost as long as you - are you saying you never get caught out? We all do from time to time, it's called being human. But let's get this straight - not all of what you said was an explanation, some of it was a personal attack. Which, thanks to Suhiir, I shall ignore.

More to follow, but it will not be "advice", merely information.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

More mortars.

Class 153 – Light Mortar

Nigeria 64 is not within the time-frame of the country, not used by any of the ‘official’ scenarios, and is a 81mm weapon.

60mm Mortar – Sudan 586 has Weight 1, all others have 0.
Thailand 573 has RoF 9, others have 8.

2 60mm Mortars – NVA 68-71 have Speed 5, all others have 3. 1 extra for stealth, concealment etc maybe, but I wouldn’t have thought 2?
Denmark 92-94 have Crew 7, others have 6.
NVA 68-71, Greece 134-136, Turkey 115 and Brazil 529-531 have RoF 9, others have 8.
Argentina 565 & Brazil 529-531 have 45 Weapon 1 & 2 rounds, others have 60.

3 60mm Mortars – Ethiopia 85 has RoF 9, all others have 8.


Class 173 – Para Mortar Team

Belgium 527 is the only unit in-class with a Fire Control rating.

N.Korea 598 & 599, and Belgium 527, 542 & 543 are Size 0, all others are 1.

China 405 & 407 have Speed 3. Standard speed for a 107mm mortar (the nearest equivalent) is 1. Maybe 2 because they’re paras?

India 545 & 546 don’t actually possess a mortar.

Up to 60mm – N.Korea 598 & 599, and Switzerland 366 have Speed 3; Yugoslavia 293 has 4; France 344 & 381, Yugoslavia 289-292 and Croatia 293 have 5; all others (the vast majority) have 6.
French, N.Korean & Swiss units have RoF 8, all others have 9.
Belgium 542 & 543 have Crew 5, standard is either 3 or 4.
India 542-544 have Crew 10, but they appear to have a somewhat different function to standard para mortar teams.

81mm – Switzerland 367, Indonesia 571-573 and Rhodesia 98 have Speed 2; USA 516 and Italy 415-417 have 3; S.Africa 215-217 have 4; Portugal 217 & 218 have 5, and Ethiopia 438 & 457 have 6.
USA 516 and S.Africa 215-217 have a ‘man over’, ie Crews of 9.
S.African units have RoF 9; Ethiopian, Indonesian & Portuguese units have RoF 8, standard is 7.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Class 200 – Mortar Subtype A

Poland 206 (and 204 in the next class) appear to be the only mortars in existence with an AP round. I have no information on the M98, it just looks out of place, especially with nothing to improve its accuracy.

50-60mm – N.Korea 597, Canada 270-273 and Cambodia 596-598 have Size 0, all others have 1.
Canada 270-273 have 2 Crew, Nicaragua 510 has 4, Denmark 95-97 have 7, standard is 3. France 407 & 408 have 3 Crew for 2 mortars, standard is 6. However, the Canadian units also have only 30 Weapon 1 rounds (standard is 60), hence maybe the size and crew.
Israel 535 has Speed 6, for a 52mm, standard is 4.
China 99, 100, 102 & 103 have Speed 5 for a 60mm, standard is 3.
ARVN 520, Greece 340-342, Turkey 400, Brazil 558-560, Thailand 561 & Ethiopia 79 have RoF 9, all others have 8.
Brazil 558-560 have 45 Weapon 1 (mortar) rounds, standard is 60.

81/82mm – ARVN 524, Belgium 459, Czech 510-513 and Libya 235-238 have RoF 8, standard is 7.
USMC 272 & Argentina 505 have Size 0, others have 1.
Italy 800 has 4 Crew for 2 mortars, Jordan 574 & 575 have 6, Belgium 459 has 7, standard is 8. USMC 270 & 271 have Crew 8 for 1 mortar, standard is 4.
Nigeria 592, Kenya 412, Sudan 251 & 252 and Uruguay 460 have Speed 3, standard is 2. However, they also only carry 40 Weapon 1 rounds, so this may be a trade-off.
PLO 65 has Speed 1, China 101 has 3, but no trade-off.
Sudan 253, Bulgaria 474-477 and Somalia 64 have Weight 1, Sweden 424 has 3, standard is 0 (even for multiple mortars).
Brazil 561-563, Chile 580 & 581 and Sudan 253 have 35 Weapon 1 (mortar) rounds, Australia 309-312, NVA 188, Green 453 & Rhodesia 140 have 40, standard is 50. NB also applies to Weapon 2 for Australian units.

107mm – Uruguay 461 has Speed 0, Peru 587 has 2, all others have 1.
Ecuador 547 & Nicaragua 513 have Weight 0, all others have 1.
Libya 239 has RoF 7, all others have 6.
Uruguay 461 has 35 Weapon 1 (mortar) rounds, Chile 582 has 30, all others have 40.

120mm – Russia 563 & 566 have Crew 12, standard is 6. PLO 66 has Crew 8 for 2 mortars, standard is 12.
Egypt 512 & Russia 815 have Crew 5 and Weight 1, all others have 6/2. The Russian unit has a different weapon (2B18) which would account for the crew difference, but AFAIK it is considerably heavier than the M1943.
Russia 815 & NVA 189 have 30 Weapon 1 (Mortar) rounds, all others have 40.

240mm – Syria 78 has 15 Weapon 1 (Mortar) rounds, standard is 20.


Class 201 – Mortar subtype B

Poland 204 – see previous class.

50-60mm – Lebanon 571 is Size 0, standard is 1.
Brazil 567-569 and Ethiopia 290 have RoF 9, standard is 8.
Brazil 567-569 have 45 Weapon 1 (mortar) rounds, standard is 60.

81/82mm – Argentina 616 is Size 0, standard is 1.
Jordan 577 & 578 and Lebanon 573 have Crew 3, standard is 4.
Finland 679-683 have Weight 1, standard is 0.
Belgium 558 & 560, Greece 344-346, Turkey 402 & 403, and Ethiopia 291 & 292 have RoF 8, standard is 7.

107mm – Belgium 559 & 561 and Ethiopia 293 have RoF 7, standard is 6.
Cyprus 295 has Speed 2, standard is 1.

120mm – Algeria 495 & 496 have Weight 1, Sudan 261 has 3, standard is 2.
Ethiopia 294 has RoF 6, standard is 5.
Sudan 259-262 have 30 Weapon 1 (mortar) rounds, standard is 40.

160mm – Egypt 80 has 20 Weapon 1 (mortar) rounds, standard is 24.

240mm – Egypt 81 has 15 Weapon 1 (mortar) rounds, standard is 20.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Class 202 – Mortar subtype C

81/82mm – Poland 188 & 189 have Speed 3, standard is 2.
Ethiopia 81 & 83 have RoF 8, standard is 7.
Australia 590-593 and Italy 418-420 have 40 Weapon 1 (mortar) rounds, standard is 50. NB also applies to Weapon 2 for Italian units.

107mm - Greece 348 & 349 and Turkey 405 & 406 have RoF 7, standard is 6.

120mm – Jordan 558 has Crew 4, USA 518 has 5, standard is 6.
Eritrea 73 has Speed 0, standard is 1.
USA 518 & Belgium 188 have Weight 1, standard is 2.
USA 518 and Turkey 408 & 409 have RoF 6, standard is 5.

160mm – N.Yemen 587 has Crew 6, standard is 8.


Class 255 – Mortar subtype D

60mm – Thailand 173 has RoF 9, standard is 8.

82mm Vasilek – Yugoslavia 597 has Speed 1, others have 0.
E.Germany 225 has 48 Weapon 1 HE rounds, others have 56. It also has 48 HEAT rounds, others have 4.

120mm – Poland 527-529 have Size 0, standard is 1. They also have Crew 4 (standard is 6), Speed 0 (standard is 1) and Weight 1 (standard is 2).
France 475 has Speed 2, France 476 has 0, standard is 1.
France 475 & 476 have 30 Weapon 1 and 2 (mortar) rounds, standard is 40.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Machine Guns. I've made the assumption with this and (I hope) all other infantry units that the hand grenade loadout is by convention a multiple of the number of men in the unit. If I'm wrong, such information can be ignored.

Class 4 – MG Section

I’ve noticed that speeds for MMGs/GPMGs are either 5 (222 units) or 6 (40 units), probably according to the ideas of the individual oob designer. Taking nothing else into consideration, I have standardised on 5, if only because 6 is the standard infantry unit speed and I believe that there should be some penalty for the additional encumbrance. I may, however, have gone the wrong way, or this may be one of those cases where a standard speed isn’t necessary; in either case mea culpa.

Israel 465, Mujahadeen 96, Belgium 91 & 92, Denmark 298-302, E.Germany 79, Cyprus 206, Sweden 220-223, and Bulgaria 295-297 have Weight 1, all others have 0.

E.Germany 79 & 211, Romania 96, Red 149, Bosnia 47 & Croatia 47 have FC & RF 0, all others have 1/1.

NVA has reduced crew and size for HMG sections. Probably a country thing.

Denmark 298-302 have 7 crew for 2 MMG. Again, probably a country thing.

.30cal M1917 – Used by Austria 90 as a MMG.

.30cal M1919 – Libya 196 has Size 1 and Crew 8, others have 0/6. It also has 8 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.
USA 773 has Crew 10 for 3 guns, Japan 281 has 9. May be a country thing?
S.Korea 255 has 8 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 6 Crew.

FN-MAG (& derivatives) – Libya 197 & Chile 91 have Size 1, others have 0. They also have Crew 8 for 2 guns (others have 6), and the Libyan unit has 8 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.
Sweden 223 has Crew 8 for 2 guns.
UK 180 & 181, Gulf 91, Pakistan 298, Belgium 89 & 90, Netherlands 184 & 185, Greece 191 & 192, Chad 79, Saudi 91 & Uganda 76 have Speed 6, others have 5.

DShK – Egypt 90 & Syria 100 have Speed 3, others have 4.
N.Korea 422 & 424 have Crew 5, others have 4. They also have 5 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.

M2/M2HB – ARVN 67 & Sweden 225 have Size 0 for a section, others have 1.
ARVN 67 has 6 Crew for 2 guns, others have 8. It also has 12 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.
Uruguay 131 & 132 and Paraguay 92 have 6 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.

M60 – Mujahadeen 94 has Size 1, others have 0.
Gulf 92, S.Korea 251 & 256, Taiwan 251, Mujahadeen 94, ARVN 66, Saudi 92, Zimbabwe 43 & Uganda 75 have Speed 6, others have 5.

Maxim – E.Germany 211 has Size 0, others have 1. It also has Crew 3, others have 4, and 3 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.
Czech 350 has Crew 7 for 2 guns, others have 8. It also has 4 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.
Red 149 has Crew 3 and Speed 5, others have 4/4. It also has 3 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.
Poland 350 has 6 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.

MG42 (and derivatives) – Sweden 221 has 8 Crew for 2 guns, 222 has 10 crew for 3 guns. Others have 3 crew per gun.

MG3 – Pakistan 297, Greece 671, Turkey 372 & 373, W.Germany 264-266, Angola 75 & Sudan 93 have Speed 6. Standard for MMG is 5, although 6 is the majority here (qv note above).

NSV – Syria 101 has Speed 3, others have 4.
N.Korea 423 has Crew 5, others have 4. It also has 5 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.

PKM/PKMS – Mujahadeen 93 & Libya 199 have Size 1, others have 0.
N.Korea 421 has Crew 4, others have 3. It also has 4 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.
Libya 199 has Crew 8 for 2 guns, others have 6. It also has 8 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.
Egypt 88 & Syria 98 have Speed 4, Mujahadeen 93 has 6, others have 5.

SG-43 – Czech 351 & 352 have Size 1, others have 0. They also have Crew 7 (others have 6), and 4 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.

SGM – Mujahadeen 92 & Libya 198 have Size 1, others have 0.
N.Korea 420 has Crew 4, others have 3. It also has 4 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.
Libya 198 has Crew 8 for 2 guns, others have 6. It also has 8 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.
Egypt 87, Syria 97, Chad 77 & Sudan 91 have Speed 4, others have 5.

Type 67 – Mujahadeen 95 has Speed 6, others have 5.
Zimbabwe 42 has 5 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds, for 6 Crew.

Type 77 HMG – China 299 has Speed 5, standard for a HMG is 4. While the Type 77 is much lighter than the Type 54, it’s still twice the weight of the Type 67 GPMG (http://world.guns.ru).

Type 92 HMG – Indonesia 90 has Speed 5, standard HMG speed is 4.

Vickers HMG – Libya 519 has Crew 8 for 1 gun, others have 4.
Gulf 90, Uruguay 130 & Paraguay 93 have 6 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.

Vz.37 – Israel 463, Romania 92 & Bulgaria 294 have Crew 6 for 2 guns, others have 8. They also have 6 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.
Romania 92 has Speed 4, others have 5.
Peru 574 is mis-named, there is only one.

zb.53 HMG – Chile 92 has 6 crew for 2 guns. Standard crew for HMG is 4. It also has 6 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

MG Part 2

Class 144 – Para MG

Poland 475 & 476 have FC 2, standard for MMG is 1.
Switzerland 360 & 361 have FC 0 & Rangefinder 0, standard for both is 1.

.30cal M1919 – Greece 317 has Speed 6, others have 5.
Argentina 486 has 8 Crew for 2 guns, standard is 6. It also has 8 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.

DShK – Indonesia 575 & 582 have Speed 5, standard is 4.

FN-MAG – Greece 318 & 319 have Speed 6, others have 5.
Argentina 487 has 8 Crew for 2 guns, standard is 6. It also has 8 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.

M2/M2HB – Indonesia 574 & 581 have Speed 5, standard is 4.
Switzerland 360 & 361 have Crew 6 for 2 guns, others have 8. They also have 4 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.

SG-43 – Czech 475 & 476 have Crew 7 for 2 guns, standard is 6. They also have 4 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds and Size 1 (others have 0).


Class 149 – Para MG Section

M2/M2HB – Belgium 526, 538 & 539 have Speed 5, standard is 4. They also have FC & Rangefinder 0, standard is 1/1.

MG42 (and derivatives) – Portugal 219 & 220 have 8 Crew for 2 guns, standard is 6. They also have 8 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.


Class 176 – Heavy MG

Mujahadeen 112 has Weight 1, standard is 0.

Norway 118-120 and Switzerland 162 & 163 have FC & Rangefinder 0, standard is 1/1.

Indonesia 97 & 98 have Speed 5, standard is 4.

DShK – Russia 572 & Czech 354 have 3 crew, standard is 4. Czech unit also has 3 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.
Czech 353 has 7 Crew for 2 guns, standard is 8. It also has 4 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.
Poland 353 has 6 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.

M2/M2HB – Netherlands 188 & 189 have Size 1, standard for 1 gun is 0.
Turkey 374-376 have 6 crew for 2 guns, standard is 8. They also have 12 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.
USA 93, 94 & 227 have 3 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 4 crew.

NSV – Russia 573 & 574 and Czech 214 have Crew 3, standard is 4. Czech unit also has 3 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.


Class 177 – Heavy MG Section

Switzerland 749 & 750 have FC & Rangefinder 0, standard is 1. They also have Size 0 (standard is 1), Crew 6 (standard is 8) and 4 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.

Type 54 – China 212 has Crew 6, standard is 8.

Type 77 – China 213 has Crew 6 % Speed 5, standard is 4/4.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

MG Part 3

Class 193 – MG Unit

Egypt 501 & 502 have Speed 4, standard for MMG is 5. They also have 4 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 3 crew.

USA 771, USMC 431 & 432, Gulf 461 & 462, ARVN 518, Pakistan 587 & 588, Cambodia 418, Chad 489 & Lebanon 337 have Speed 6, standard is 5.

France 269, Denmark 305-307 and Sweden 218 & 219 are Weight 1, Cyprus 132 & 133 are 3, standard is 0.

France 269 has 6 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 4 crew.

USA 771, E.Germany 209 and Cyprus 132 & 133 have FC & Rangefinder 0, standard is 1/1.

Ethiopia 201 & Eritrea 502 have Size 1, standard is 0. Other 4-man units also have Size 1, but these are AAMG, and presumably the mounting is larger.

Turkey 235 & 236 have RoF 3, France 270 & USA 771 have 8, standard is 9.

Denmark 305-307 again have a ‘man over’. However, Denmark 304 has a ‘man under’, ie a Crew of 7 where the standard is 8.

.30cal M1919 – Malaysia 89 has Speed 6, standard is 5.

FN-MAG – UK 185 & 186 and Malaysia 87 & 88 have Speed 6, standard is 5.

M2/M2HB – Italy 461 has Crew 2, standard is 4. It also has Size 1, standard is 0.

Maxim HMG – E.Germany 209 has Crew 3, standard is 4. It also has 3 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.

PKM/PKMS – Russia 571 has Crew 2, Mozambique 487 has 4, standard is 3. Russian unit also has 2 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.

SGM – Chad 487 has Speed 4, standard is 5.

Vickers HMG – UK 184 has Crew 7, standard is 6. May be a country thing, as GPMG sections are also 7 men.
Egypt 500 has 3 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 4 crew.

Vz.37 – Norway 181 has Crew 6 (standard is 8) and Speed 4 (standard is 5). It also has 6 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds.

zb.53 – Chile 576 has Crew 3, standard for a HMG is 4. It also has 3 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.


Class 194 – MG Section

France 272 & 273, Mujahadeen 106 and Cyprus 308 are Weight 1, standard is 0.

NVA 360 & 361 and Albania 379 are Size 1, standard is 0.

Eritrea 507 has Crew 8, standard is 4.

Greece 357, 358 & 670, Angola 375, Cambodia 408, Sudan 163, Malaysia 563, Zimbabwe 390, Tanzania 365 and Uganda 365 & 366 have Speed 6, standard is 5.
Sudan 166 & Zimbabwe 394 have Speed 5, standard is 4.
Sudan 161 has Speed 4, standard is 5.

France 272 & 273 have 4 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 7 Crew.
Greece 360 & 361, Turkey 420-422 and Uruguay 480-482 have 6 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 4 Crew.

Class 254 – MG Team

Denmark 281 has Weight 1, standard is 0.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Mechanised Infantry.

Class 69 – Mechanised Infantry

Cyprus 190 & 191 overlap in time terms, but 1 has Crew 6, the other 10.
Indonesia 371 & 372, and 373 & 374, are similar, although with different numbers.

Poland 315, 320 & 324, Hungary 315, 319, 320 & 324, Green 375 and S.Africa 173 have 20 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.
Japan 201 has 22 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.
Iran 320 & 321 have 22 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 10 Crew.
Iraq 475 & 476, NVA 334-337 have 20 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 9 Crew.
Iraq 489 and Czech 315, 320 & 324 have 20 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 9 Crew.
Czech 330, 333, 337 & 344 have 16 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 9 Crew.
W.Germany 241 has 16 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 6 Crew.
W.Germany 252 has 16 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 7 Crew.
Thailand 130-132 have 18 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.


Class 70 – Heavy Mechanised Infantry

Russia 887-890 have 24 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 13 Crew.
W.Germany 230 has 18 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.
W.Germany 231 has 12 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 7 Crew.


Class 71 – Medium Mechanised Infantry

Czech 314, 321, 331, 338, 341, 347 & 349 have 10 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 7 Crew.
Hungary 325 & Saudi 384 have 10 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 9 Crew.


Class 72 – Light Mechanised Infantry

Poland has both 5-man and 9-man units available concurrently. The 9-man units (274 & 325) are template units, but are only available for part of the life of the formations (225 & 230).

Poland 274 is Size 0 for 9 Crew.

Poland 274 & 325 have 10 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 9 Crew.
France 277 has 8 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 5 Crew.
Denmark 427 has 20 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 6 Crew.
Czech 348, 355, 356, 358 & 359 have 10 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 7 Crew.
Saudi 365 has 10 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 6 Crew.


Class 73 – Mechanised Support Squad

Russia 319-321 & 718 have 30 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Marines. It may be that different size units in the same timeframe belong to different formations, something I haven't investigated. However, given that none of the units involved has a X3 radio code, I would think that both AI and human players can select what they want for whichever formation they purchase.

Class 110 – Marines

USMC – From 1/58 to 12/67, there are 4 14-man squads and 2 13-man (706 & 760), neither of which is a template unit. From 1/90 to 12/109, there are 3 13-man squads and 2 11-man (374 & 719), neither of which is a template unit. From 1/93 to 12/109, Unit 711 has 13 men, 721 has 11. Neither is a template unit.

S.Yemen 440-442 have Speed 7, all others have 6.

China 747 has 20 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.
S.Korea 350, 351 & 355 have 10 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 12 Crew.
Green 405 & 406 have 11 Weapon 3 and 11 Weapon 4 (both Hand Grenade) rounds for 10 Crew.
Switzerland 926-929 have 24 Weapon 2 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 7 Crew.
Thailand 140 has 18 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 11 Crew.
Thailand 141 & 142 have 18 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 11 Crew.
El Salvador 405 has 11 Weapon 2 and 11 Weapon 3 (both Hand Grenade) rounds for 10 Crew.
El Salvador 406 has 11 Weapon 3 and 11 Weapon 4 (both Hand Grenade) rounds for 10 Crew.
El Salvador 407 has 22 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 10 Crew.


Class 112 – Marine Light Infantry

Norway 285 & 652 represent different formations from 461-463, and are different sizes with overlapping dates.

USMC 784-795 & 810-821 have Size 1 and Crew 4.

ARVN 81-83 have Speed 7, all others have 6.

S.Korea 349, 354 & 358 have 10 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 12 Crew.


Class 113 – Marine Support

ARVN 80 has Size 1 and Crew 3.

S.Korea 353 has Speed 0, and 10 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 12 Crew.

Italy 408-411 have Speed 3 and 9 Crew, and overlap time-wise with 412-414, which have 4/10.


Class 240 – Marine Heavy Infantry

Poland 284 & 285 have Size 0 and 6 Crew.

China 345 has 20 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 12 Crew. All other Chinese units have 10 Crew.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

I'm prepared for flak on that last one;)

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Militia classes.

Class 189 – Militia

Jordan 490-492 have Speed 5, standard is 6.

Red 99-104 are the only units with a Swim capability.

China 340-343 have RoF 8, others have 9.

Sudan 420-422 have 50 Weapon 1 rounds, ARVN 371 has 100, standard is 70 or 80.

China 340 has 10 Weapon 2 (Hand Grenade) rounds, and 12 Crew.
Iraq 760 & 761 have 20 Weapon 2 (Hand Grenade) rounds for crews of 8 & 6 respectively.
Sudan 420-422 have 5 Weapon 2 (Hand Grenade) rounds, and 5 crew.

Iraq 762 & 763 have 20 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for crews of 8 & 6 respectively.


Class 190 – Light Militia

Mozambique 117-124 have Size 0 for 5 Crew.

Iran 346 has 5 Weapon 2 (Hand Grenade) rounds, and 10 Crew.

Poland 870 & 871 have 20 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds, and 11 Crew.
Bosnia 103 has 3 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds and 6 Crew.


Class 191 – Heavy Militia

Eritrea 490 has Speed 7, all others have 6.


Class 192 – Militia Support

Mujahadeen 425-431 have Size 0 and 5 Crew.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Mixed bag of infantry classes.

Class 75 – Irregulars

Mujahadeen 415-417 have Load Cost 25, standard (also for Dismounted Cavalry in other classes) is 0. They are also Size 2, for Crew 8, and have 20 Weapon 3 (415 & 417) or 4 (416, all Hand Grenades) rounds for 8 Crew.

UN 368 are Size 3, for Crew 12.

Afghan 345 has 6 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 10 Crew.
Green 477 & Red 298 have 10 Weapon 2 (Hand Grenade) rounds, for 9 Crew.
Green 471, 473 & 476 and Red 292, 294 & 297 have 10 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 9 Crew.


Class 76 - Partisans

Poland 887 & 888 have 20 Weapon 2 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 12 Crew.


Class 77 – Partisan Support

ARVN 578 have Speed 4. May be for the MMG in Weapon slot 2? In which case, the standard is 5. But with the mortar in slot 3? Interesting call.

Poland 889 has 20 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.


Class 79 – Natives

ARVN 544 & 545 have Speed 7, 577 & 579 have 6.


Class 117 – Legionnaires

France 356 overlaps time-wise with 355, but has 5 Crew rather than 10. It is not a template unit.

Poland 879-881 have 20 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.


Class 178 – Police

ARVN 74 has Crew 3, Size 1.
S.Africa 395 & 396 and UN 326-329 have Crew 4, Size 1.

Poland 878 & 884 have 20 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.


Class 230 – Guerillas

Nicaragua 483-489 have Speed 7, all other Nicaraguan units of this class have 6.

Lebanon 490 has 10 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 6 Crew.
Viet Cong 347-351, 353, 358 & 359 have 16 Weapon 2 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 9 Crew.
Viet Cong 352, 354-356 & 359 have 16 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 9 Crew.


Class 231 – Light Guerillas

Iraq 769 has 8 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 5 Crew.
Sudan 612 has 8 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 5 Crew.

The next one might be a while - I've hit Class 1!

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

From my "reading" of this it's not so much encumbrance as set-up time.
MMG's usually require you to set up a tripod, mount the weapon on it, load a belt of ammo, and perhaps attach a T&E (traverse and elevation mechanism).
Then again MG units can't move-an-fire... However a player can fire, move-a-hex (or two), and next turn it's ready to fire again at the so perhaps the combo of move speed and no fire-an-move is needed.

My 2 cents

Re: Anomaly reports
 

This one I can speak on with a certain amount of authority...and perhaps help explain why some of the anomalies aren't.

In about 1958 the USA started swapping from the venerable M1 Garand to the M14 rifle.
In about 1962 the M79 40mm grenade launcher was adopted.
In about 1968 the M16 rifle was adopted by the USMC (the Army got it in 1965ish).
In about 1972 the M203 40mm grenade launcher was adopted.

The traditional USMC squad has been 13-man since the last part of WW II - BUT - the inclusion of the M79 ment they added a 14th man, the grenadier.

Rather then having:
1/58-12/61 13 man with M14's
1/62-12/67 14 man with M14's and M79 (actually valid till 1970)
1/68-12/71 14 man with M16's and M79
1/72-now 13 man with M16's and M203's

They simply combined the adoption of the M14, M79, and 14-man squad in 1958 and back to 13-man on 1968. Thus you have both 13 and 14-man squads during this period.

In 1993 they started using the MRAP (Mine Resistant Ambush Protected) trucks but they can only carry 11 passengers so an 11-man vice the normal 13-man squad was created to fit in these vehicles (for my OOB variant I just made the MRAP 13 passenger).

The reason none of these are template units is they're all a "standard" USMC Rifle Squad, so the 1/46 squad is the template for virtually every formation.

This unit is used for the USMC Fire Team (3 per squad plus the squad leader = 13-men (+1 for 14 if they have an M79) rather then a crew or crew served weapon as is normally the case with 4-man units. Thus they are not given the defensive and other advantages of a size zero unit.

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Yep - just because a line infantry element is ~4 men does not necessarily mean that it gets the size 0 bonus. That is usually reserved for scouts (ie those who don't want to shoot, as a rule). An "assault" team of 4-5 that is primarily there to jump off their Spartans and fight might not have it since they are not in the "stealth" business. (Forex, USSR units #346-348 should be size 1 as they are such, not recce).

But there will be variations to the design guidelines all over the place - since they are that, not laws. In the end it is up to the OOB designer to design his OOB, and for the points calculator to decide each element's worth.

So - OOB designer Bloggs may decide that in his Rastafarian OOB, a 2xgun SFMG section element(used in one formation) will have speed 5, and the singleton SFMG element used in inf coy HQ support platoon will have speed 6 to keep up with the grunts - maybe there are more men in the singleton, to carry the bits faster.

For most things, it is neither here nor there if the 81mm mortar crews (forex) have one or two variation in crew from the guideline, or whatever. All provided they fit in the supplied transports, of course :)!. A couple more men means they may survive longer if subject to C/B fire, and will cost a point or two more than in some other OOB.

OOB designers do not produce blow-by-blow design documents (Those were usual in SP1 days when there were only about, what?, 100 possible units in a national OOB - and some like the Romanians had less since they shared an OOB file with someone). We do have replies in deeply buried emails from folks who did their OOB their way, but it's difficult to keep track of. However, the old line by line essay that you got in SP1 days is long gone, since quite frankly it would be a complete PITA to keep in synch if (say) we published such a tome for each and every OOB.

We have been bitten several times back in the days when we had OOB design teams of volunteers, when some of these went through the OOB set "rationalising" things and "applying the rulez" in a rigid and formulaic mechanistic manner. (Like reducing the carry capacity of the M321X APC in the Rasta OOB to 11 because "that was what all the others are"- but the OOB designer had deliberately upped it to cater for the one 12 man squad available 1957-59 without having to jump through hoops with different formations).

Adjusting the carry of APCs is quite allowable, especially if it saves umpteen new formations and a rewritten pick list etc.

So - a run through like this is fine, as a pointer to things that look like they may need investigating. We will look at these reports, and decide whether or not the points are valid or not to need fixing. But please do not expect a blow-by-blow return replying to each and every line item, and whether or not we decided to fix it as suggested.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Utter standardisation of everything is the last thing on my mind (remember what I was like a few years back about "spotter plane syndrome"? :))) There will be far too many people out there, with individual country knowledge that is far greater than mine, who have made individual adjustments/variations for very good reasons, The problem with the approach I've adopted is that it will most likely pick up the difference but not, of course, why it's occurred. That's why input like Suhiir's is so valuable.

This is why I deliberately called the thread "anomaly reports". An anomaly isn't an error, it's just something different from the norm, for whatever reason. I did suggest the odd change earlier on, if only because some things seem obvious when looking at raw data. But I'm trying now to stick to the provision of information, pure & simple.

Andy, thanks for the encouragement, I'll see the exercise through (there are times I wonder what started it off & whatever it was, can I kill it? :>)))) I certainly don't expect a line-by-line response - if the whole exercise only throws up a couple of "needs fixing" to improve an already superb game, it's been worth it.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

If you feel up to the task - then by all means carry on...

Remember to knock off at beer o'clock :beer: from time to time though!.

If it finds a few items, then it'll be worth the while.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Lol - yes there are days when I wonder why the hell I started, but to be honest, a discipline like this prevents beer o'clock from starting waaay too early! It's one of the problems of being retired on a small island (Malta), there isn't a whole load to keep one occupied. I know, it's still nearly 70 degrees & there's always the sea to watch, where's the problem? :)

Onwards and upwards - infantry.

Class 1 – Infantry

France 126 has 20 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 11 Crew.
China 286 & 314-319 have 20 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 12 Crew.
Dare I mention the ‘C’ word? Canada 81, 82, 85 & 86 have 20 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.
Denmark 253 has 20 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.
W.Germany 225, 226, 462 & 463 have 18 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.
S.Africa 43 has 10 Weapon 3 & 10 Weapon 4 (both Hand Grenade) rounds for 11 Crew.
Croatia 66 has 10 Weapon 2 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 7 Crew.
Nigeria 410 has 9 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 10 Crew.
Sweden 98 & 103 have 9 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.
Kenya 402-405 have 10 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.

Belgium 94 (Crew 10) runs concurrently with 95 (Crew 8). Neither is a template unit, nor are they X3 radio coded.
Algeria 362 (Crew 10) runs until 12/74. Other Algerian units have Crew 8 from 1/69. It is a template unit, but only for formations running to 12/68.


Class 40 – Heavy Infantry

Switzerland 295-297 have Speed 7, all others have 6.

China 635 & 636 have 4 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 3 Crew.
NVA 116-118 have 10 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 9 Crew.
Canada 64 & 65 have 16 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 10 Crew.
Denmark 264 and E.Germany 98-100 have 20 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.
Switzerland 119 has 16 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 11 Crew.
Switzerland 120, 302-308 & 519 have 16 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 11 Crew.

Poland 323 (Crew 10) runs until 12/87. Other Polish units have Crew 8 from 1/80. It is not a template or X3-coded unit.
Czech 323 is similar to Poland 323.
Switzerland 295-298 are 9-man, non-template units that run concurrently with some of the other 11-man units.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

More infantry

Class 51 – Light Infantry

Afghanistan 415-417 and Ethiopia 417 have Load Cost 25, others have 0. They are also Size 2 and have Sound 222, even though they are dismounted.

Afghanistan 415 & 417 and Denmark 262 have 20 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.
Afghanistan 416 has 20 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.
Netherlands 205 & 206 have 12 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 5 Crew.
Netherlands 207 has 8 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 5 Crew.
Canada 92, 93, 96 & 97 have 14 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.
Canada 94 & 98 have 20 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.
W.Germany 216 & 218 have 16 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 6 Crew.
W.Germany 214 & 215 have 16 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 7 Crew.
W.Germany 212 has 18 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.
Austria 200 has 5 Weapon 2 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 10 Crew.
Viet Cong 265 has 20 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 9 Crew.


Class 55 – HQ

Viet Cong 244 & 245 have 4 Weapon 2 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 6 Crew.

Japan 245 and Switzerland 244 & 245 also have ‘odd numbers’ of grenades but along with Switzerland 243, they are the only units to carry a third weapon. From what has been done with the Swiss oob, I suspect detailed in-country knowledge.


Class 64 – Medium Infantry

Nigeria 565 & 566 have Speed 7, all others have 6.

ARVN 215 has 20 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 9 Crew.
Canada 104 has 14 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.
Denmark 263 has 20 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.
W.Germany 600-603 have 18 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 10 Crew.

Nigeria has 2 9-man (565 & 566) and 2 3-man (462 & 463) units running concurrently. 565 is a template unit, but none is X3 coded. A human will know which to pick for the different formations, but what about the AI?


Class 65 – LMG Section

China 350-355 have Speed 5, all others have 6 (even with 2 LMG & 4 Crew).

China 350-355, Cuba 540-543 and Rhodesia 24 have FC and Rangefinder 1, all others have 0/0. My understanding is that this only applies to MMG & HMG.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Yet more infantry.

Class 66 – SMG Section

Norway 182 has Load Cost 1, all others have 0. It also has Speed 5, others have 6 or 7.


Class 67 – Rifle Section

Algeria 352 (Crew 10) runs partly concurrently with 353 (Crew 8). The units are similarly armed, although they have different radio chances.


Class 160 – Reserve Infantry

Poland 882 & 883 have 10 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 12 Crew.
China 424-426 have 20 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 12 Crew.
N.Korea 360-364 and Cambodia 360 & 362 have 12 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 9 Crew.
Taiwan 330 has 24 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 10 Crew.
Canada 436 & 437 have 10 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 8 Crew.
Yugoslavia 84 has 10 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 7 Crew.
Sweden 480 has 4 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 12 Crew. Postwar rationing maybe.
Sweden 481 & 483 have 10 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 12 Crew.

Yugoslavia 86 (Crew 10) runs until 12/65, partly concurrently with 2 7-man units (84 & 87). It is not a template unit, and is not X3 coded.


Class 161 – Reserve Support

Norway 169-172 have Speed 5, all others have 6.


Class 226 – COIN Heavy Infantry

Rhodesia 30 has Speed 8, standard is 6 or 7. It also has 10 men, and runs concurrently with 190 & 191, which are both 5-man units. None of them is X3-coded.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Class 2 – Infantry AT

57mm M18 RCL – Green 102 is Size 1, all others are 0.
France 113, Green 102 & Thailand 70 have Crew 3, Mujahadeen 174 has 4, all others have 2. Green 102 also has 3 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.
Lebanon 117 has Speed 4, all others have 6.
Mujahadeen 174 has Load Cost 1, all others have 0.
Brazil 102 & Thailand 70 have FC & Rangefinder 1, all others have 0/0.

75mm M20 RCL – Japan 143, Green 103, Chile 103, Lebanon 118 and Indonesia 105 & 107 are Size 1, which leaves a small majority as Size 0. Having used one of these in the Obong-Ni Ridge scenario, I’d want to be Size 0!
Green 103 has Crew 3, France 114 & Mujahadeen 176 have 4, all others have 2.
Lebanon 118 has Speed 3, all others have 6.
Mujahadeen 176 has Load Cost 1, Viet Cong 63 (Type 56) has 2, all others have 0.
Brazil 103 has FC & Rangefinder 1, all others have 0/0.

90mm M67 RCL – Green 104 has Size 1 & Crew 3, Mujahadeen 179 has Crew 4, all others have 0/2.
Mujahadeen 179 has Load Cost 1, all others have 0.
Portugal 72 has FC & Rangefinder 1, all others have 0/0.

Alcotan 100 – Spain 472 has a typo, the weapon has the correct name.

Apilas – Taiwan 484 has FC & Rangefinder 0/0, others have 3/1.

AT-3 Sagger – Viet Cong 69 has FC & Rangefinder 1, others have 0/0.

AT4 LAW – UK 236 has RoF 6, all others have 7.

B-10 82mm RCL – Mujahadeen 177 has Crew 4, all others have 2.
Uganda 111 has Speed 4, all others have 6.
Mujahadeen 177 & Eritrea 111 have Load Cost 1, all others have 0.

Boyes ATR – Sudan 320 has Size 1, all others have 0.

Carl Gustav 84mm – Green 108 has Crew 3, all others have 2.
Denmark 315 & 316 have Load Cost 1, all others have 0. They also have FC 1 and Rangefinder 1 (see below).
W.Germany 199 and Malaysia 183 & 184 have FC & Rangefinder 1, India 306 & 307, S.Yemen 323 & 324 and N.Yemen 325 have 2, all others have 0/0.
Spain 471, Italy 449 & Austria 60 have RoF 6, all others have 7.

Dragon ATGM – Iran 379 has Load Cost 1, all others have 0.

Instalaza M65 – Uruguay 97 has RoF 6, all others have 7.

LAW-80 – UK 223 has RoF 6, others (in other classes) have 7.

LRAC F1 – Cyprus 215 has RoF 6, all others have 7.

M9/M9A1 Bazooka – Mujahadeen 172 has Crew 4, all others have 2.
Indonesia 100 has Load Cost 1, all others have 0.
Egypt 107 & ARVN 200 have RoF 6, others have 7.

M20 Super Bazooka – Mujahadeen 173 has 4 Crew, Gulf 321 has 3, all others have 2.
Denmark 311 and Indonesia 101 & 102 have Load Cost 1, all others have 0.

M72 LAW – Green 105 has Crew 3, Nigeria 111 has 4, all others have 2.
Nigeria 498 has Speed 4, all others have 6.
Denmark 312 & 313 have Load Cost 1, all others have 0.

M79 Osa – Yugoslavia 208 has Size 0, Croatia 208 has Size 1.

Metis ATGW – Chechnya 21 & 22 have Crew 3, all others have 2.

Milan – Belgium 77 & 78 have Speed 5, all others have 6. They also have RoF 5, all others have 4.

Panzerfaust 3 – Japan 153 has Crew 3 & Speed 4, all others have 2/6.
Japan 153 has RoF 4, Netherlands 186, S.Korea 484 & Italy 448 have 7, all others have 6.

Panzerfaust 44 – W.Germany 205 has RoF 6, Italy 447 has 7.

Panzerschreck – Romania 290 has Crew 2 & Speed 6, Bulgaria 280 has Crew 3 & Speed 7. Standard from WW2 appears to be the same as the Romanian figures.

PIAT – Denmark 310 has Crew 3, Malaysia 180 has 4, all others have 2. Denmark 310 also has Load Cost 1, all others have 0.
Egypt 106 & Jordan 178 have RoF 6, all others have 7.

PTRD ATR – Mujahadeen 169 has Crew 3, all others have 2.

RPG-2 – Red 22 has Crew 3, all others have 2. It also has 6 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.
Mozambique 463 has RoF 8, all others have 7.

RPG-7 – Green 106, Red 24 & Chechnya 18 have Crew 3, Afghanistan 177 has 4, all others have 2. Red 24 & Chechnya 18 also have 6 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.
Indonesia 103 & Rhodesia 100 have Load Cost 1, all others have 0.
S.Africa 56 & 57 have RoF 9, Mozambique 485 has 8, all others have 7.
Mozambique 485 has 50 AP rounds for Weapon 1 (RPG), standard loadout is 6 HEAT.
PLO 151 (Nader) has Speed 5 & RoF 6, all others have 6/7.

RPG-7V – Czech 212 is Size 1, all others 0.
Green 107, Red 27 & Chechnya 20 have 3 Crew, Mujahadeen 181 & Afghan 178 have 4, all others have 2. Red 27 & Chechnya 20 also have 6 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.
E.Germany 475, Green 107, Cuba 104 & Nicaragua 104 have RoF 7, all others have 6.

RPG-16 – Mujahadeen 168 & Afghanistan 179 have Crew 4, others have 2.

RPG-18 – Afghanistan 180 has Crew 4, all others have 2.
Syria 218 & Greece 202 have RoF 6, standard for a RPG is 7.

Saghegh RPG – PLO 150 has RoF 6, others have 7.

SPG-9 – Mujahadeen 175 has Crew 4, all others have 2. It also has Load Cost, FC & Rangefinder 1, others have 0/0/0.

Type 56 RPG – Cambodia 287 has Crew 3, all others have 2.

Type 69 RPG – Cambodia 288 has Crew 3, all others have 2.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

More infantry AT in various guises.

Class 142 – Para Infantry AT

All the UK (386, 387, 392-399, 402, 410) and Thai (402-407) units have a Swim Speed. I’m not sure I’d fancy a dip with 15 kilos of Vigilant on my back . . . . . .

UK 392-399 have 3 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds with 2 Crew.

Israel 530 and Indonesian units (542-545) have Load Cost 1, all others have 0.

Belgium 544 has 10 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 4 Crew.

57mm M18 RCL – France 316 has Crew 3, standard is 2. It also has 3 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.

75mm M20 RCL – France 317 has Crew 4, standard is 2.

AT-4 Fagot – Russia 693 has Crew 2, standard is 3.

Blindicide 83mm – Belgium 546 has Crew 4, standard is 2.

Carl Gustav – UK 396 & 397 and Malaysia 360 & 361 have RoF 6, standard is 7.

Dragon ATGW – Thailand 406 & 407 have Size 0 & RoF 9, standards are 1/4.

Javelin – UK 386 has Size 1, others have 0.
Australia 500 has RoF 9, standard is 4.

M9/M9A1 Bazooka – Egypt 221 & Indonesia 543 have RoF 6, standard is 7.

M20 Super Bazooka – Israel 525 & Thailand 403 have Crew 3, Belgium 545 has 4, standard is 2.
Thailand 403 has RoF 9, Indonesia 542 & 544 have 6, standard is 7.
Thailand 403 has 9 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.

M72 LAW – Thailand 404 & 405 have Crew 3, standard is 2. They also have RoF 9 (standard is 7) and 9 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds
Argentina 488 has 3 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 2 Crew.

Metis ATGW – E.Germany 473 has Crew 3, standard is 2. It also has 6 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.

Milan – Belgium 547 & 548 have Speed 5 & RoF 5, standard is 6/4. They also have 8 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 3 Crew.

RPG-2 – Russia 456 has RoF 4, standard is 7.

RPG-7 – Russia 457 has RoF 4, standard is 7.

RPG-7V – Russia 458 has RoF 4, E.Germany 472 has 7, standard is 6.

RPG-16 – Ukraine 463 has Crew 3, standard is 2.

Spike – Israel 530 has 2 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 3 Crew.


Class 146 – Commando Infantry AT

Belgium 504 has 10 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 4 Crew.

Javelin – Australia 527 has RoF 9, standard is 4.

M9/M9A1 Bazooka – Norway 438 has Crew 4, standard is 2.

M20 Bazooka – USA 966 has RoF 6, standard is 7.

Molotov – Green 590 has RoF 6, other Molotov teams (in other classes) have 9.

RPG-7V – E.Germany 469 has RoF 7, standard is 6.


Class 165 – Ski Infantry AT

France 382-384 & 402 have RoF 9, standard for all is 7.

Carl Gustav 84mm – Sweden 169 has Crew 3, Sweden 170-173 have 4, standard is 2.

M79 Osa – Croatia 210 has Size 1, standard in other classes is 0.

PIAT – Norway 440 has Crew 3, standard is 2.

Satchel Charge – Sweden 148 has RoF 9, standard in other classes is 4.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Infantry RCL Teams.

Class 208 – Infantry RR Team

India 316, Cyprus 211, Saudi 330-332 & Bulgaria 289-291 have Size 1, standard for all is 0.

Angola 540 & 541, Saudi 330-332, S.Yemen 330 & 331 and Bulgaria 290 have Load Cost 1, standard for all is 0.

Czech 373, S.Yemen 330 & 331, Rhodesia 205 & Tanzania 100 have FC & Rangefinder 1/1, Tanzania 101 has 2/2, standard for all is 0/0.

57mm M18 – Cambodia 68 & Saudi 330 have Crew 3, Iran 440 & USMC 72 have 4, all others have 2.
Iran 440 & Norway 49 have Speed 4, all others have 6.

75mm M20 – Rhodesia 205 has Crew 3, Iran 441 & USMC 73 have 4, all others have 2.
Rhodesia 205 has Speed 3, Tanzania 100 has 4, all others have 6.
Type 56 derivative – NVA 445, Pakistan 311 & Sudan 330 have Crew 2, China 69, N.Korea 71 and Cambodia 70 & 71 have 4.

90mm M67 – Iran 442 has Crew 4, all others have 2.

B-10 – Poland 68 & Bulgaria 289 have Crew 3, Russia 586, N.Korea 68, Angola 541 & S.Yemen 331 have 4, all others have 2.
S.Yemen 331 has Speed 3, all others have 6.
Derivatives – China 70 & 71 and Tanzania 101 have Crew 4, Sudan 331 has 2.

Nader – Iran 443 has RoF 6, standard is 7.

PF-98 – China 72 has Crew 4, China 396 (Class 2) has 2.

SPG-9 – Poland 70, Russia 587, S.Yemen 330 and Bulgaria 290 & 291 have Crew 3, N.Korea 70 and Angola 540 have 4, all others have 2.
Russia 587 & S.Yemen 330 have Speed 4, all others have 6.

SPG-82 – Czech 373 has Speed 3, all others have 6.


Class 209 = Para RR Team

USA 267-269 have Crew 3, standard for all is 2.

SPG-9 – Russia 474 and Hungary 486 & 487 have Crew 3, standard is 2.
Poland 486 & Russia 474 have Speed 4, standard is 6.

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Agree, should be speed 6 (typo)

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Helicopters - eek! Given the number of different marks of a helo like the UH-1, there is plenty of potential here for slipping on a banana skin. I have therefore tried not to highlight small variations in speed (some smart ground crew person will always try & squeeze the odd knot or 2), carry capacity etc. I have indicated units where there are differences in capabilities that have a 1-6 range (survivability, stabilisers etc), or where the majority of similar units says one thing and the 'odd man/men out' say different.

Class 53 – Helicopter. By country of manufacturer, then alphabetically by manufacturer, and then by year of manufacture.

Aerospatiale SA.330 Puma – Gulf 562, Turkey 501 & Peru 530 have Survivability 4, Ethiopia 122 has 0, others have 3.
France 517, UK 574, Pakistan 420, Romania 124 and Brazil 122 have Stabiliser 0, even though they are armed.

AS.332 Super Puma – Gulf 566, Greece 519, Argentina 533 & Thailand 498 have Survivability 4, which leaves a narrow majority with 3.
Gulf 566 has Stabiliser 0, standard for armed versions is 4.
Indonesia 120 has ‘Steel HF’ 10, standard is 12.

AS.532 Cougar – Greece 520 has Speed 86, standard is 93 or 108. It also has ‘Steel HF’ 10, all others have 12.
Jordan 109, Green 124, Brazil 123 and Saudi 532 have Survivability 3, others have 4.
France 516, Netherlands 514, Turkey 502 and Brazil 123 have Stabiliser 0, Jordan 109 has 2, standard is 4.
France 516 & 519, Netherlands 514 and Turkey 502 have ‘Steel HF’ 10. Standard even for the AS.332 is 12, and the Cougar is a developed version.
Albania 132 is called “AS-350B2”, which relates to the Ecureuil light helo; however, the stats and .lbm are those of the Cougar. According to SIPRA, 5 AS.532 Cougars were delivered in 2009. Dates for the unit are 1/79 – 12/105; these dates are covered by other units in the oob.
Conversely, Cambodia 123 also has the stats and .lbm of an AS.532, although it is also called “AS-350”. Again according to SIPRA, Cambodia has had no Pumas of any mark, but 2 AS.350 Ecureuils were probably delivered in 1993. In the game, all AS.350 are classed as Light Helos; this would not affect Cambodian formations.

EH-101 Merlin – Portugal 281 has Stabiliser 0, standard for armed versions is 3.

Agusta A.109 – Sweden 586 has Size 3, standard (in Class 204) is 2. It also has Speed 94 (standard is 104) and Steel HF 4 (standard is 9).

Mil Mi-1 – Mujahadeen 116 is Size 3, standard (in Class 204) is 2. It also has Speed 76 (standard is 67) and Survivability 3 (standard is 1).

Mil Mi-4 (and derivatives) – Russia 312 has Survivability 0, standard is 4.
NVA 226 has FC 4, Rangefinder 4 and Stabiliser 2, although it is unarmed.
Cuba 130 has Stabiliser 2, although unarmed.
Finland 146 has Stabiliser 0, Uganda 136 has 3, standard for armed versions is 2.
China 115 has ‘Steel HF’ 4, Green 125 has 5, standard is 6.

Mil Mi-8 – Russia 315-318 & 355 have Survivability 0, standard is 4.
Finland 145 has Stabiliser 0, standard for armed versions is 4.

Mil Mi-17 – PLO 232 has Stabiliser 2, Czech 117 has 0, standard is 4.

Mil Mi-2 - Figures are correct.

Mil Mi-14 – Poland 968 has Swim Speed 1, one of only 2 helicopters to have this ability. I’m dubious, if only because helicopters don’t taxi in the same way as fixed-wing aircraft and although the Mi-14 is built to land on water, I have never seen either a photo or a report to suggest that it can move on it in a controlled manner. It also has ‘Steel HS’ 0, standard is 1.

Westland Wessex – Iraq 112, Nigeria 131, S.Yemen 115 & Uruguay 277 have Survivability 4, others have 3.

Westland Lynx – UK 573 & 576 have Stabiliser 0, even though armed. Standard for the armed version is 5.

Bell 204/205 Series – Norway 254 & 255 have Survivability 2, Israel 262, Iran 270, Netherlands 506 & W.Germany 332 have 3, standard is 4.
Of the armed versions, Jordan 107, China 119, Netherlands 506, Turkey 494 & 495, Spain 503 & W.Germany 332 have Stabiliser 2; Greece 507 & 515, Austria 117, Uruguay 285 & Paraguay 288 have 4, standard is 3.
Iran 270 and Canada 412 & 413 have Stabiliser 0, although all are armed.
Cambodia 117, Chile 122 & Peru 117 have Stabiliser 3, Israel 262 has 2, although all are unarmed.
Jordan 107, Iran 270, S.Korea 105 & 107, Taiwan 107, Norway 254 & 255, Spain 503, Ethiopia 110 & 112 and Lebanon 137 & 138 have ‘Steel HF’ 4, standard is 6.
Just a small suggestion: Japan 351, Iran 270, S.Korea 105, Spain 503, Chile 122 and Indonesia 125 (covering various marks) all have Speed 80, which equates to 150 mph. My sources (‘Aircraft of the USAF’ in the Putnam series, various Janes editions etc) suggest that 138 mph is about top whack for a standard Huey, which equates to Speed 75, which is pretty much an average in the game.

Bell 212 – Israel 264, Iran 272 & Norway 590 have Survivability 3, others have 4.
Sweden 585 has Speed 75, standard is 83-86. It also has ‘Steel HF’ 0, standard is 6.

Bell 214 – Norway 591 & Peru 532 have Speed 99, all others have 90.
Iran 273, Thailand 503 and Ecuador 517 have Stabiliser 4, standard for the ‘family’ is 3. They also have ‘Steel HF’ 7, standard is 6.

Bell 412 – Cyprus 150, Brazil 119, Chile 120 & Indonesia 272 have Speed 62, standard is 87.
Norway 256 has Survivability 3, Netherlands 509 has 5, all others have 4.
Netherlands 509 has Stabiliser 2, all other armed versions have 3.
Green 120, Nigeria 135, Finland 148, Zimbabwe 116, Eritrea 127 and Uganda 147 & 148 have RoF 6, standard for MG-armed helos is 9.
Norway 256 has ‘Steel HF’ 4, the 4 with Speed 62 have 8 (maybe the reason for the reduced speed?), all others have 6.

Boeing-Vertol CH-47 Chinook – Taiwan 108 & 109, Netherlands 513 & Turkey 513 have Speed 88, standard is 100.
Netherlands 513 & Turkey 513 have Stabiliser 4, although unarmed.

Sikorsky S-55/H-19/Westland Whirlwind – There is a narrow majority (15:14) with Size 3. The H-19 is a similar size to the SA.330 Puma (slightly larger main rotor, slightly shorter body), all of which are Size 3.
The Size 4 units are:- Israel 260, France 502, UK 528, USA 288, Taiwan 105, Pakistan 399, Belgium 200, Canada 408, Greece 511, Turkey 493, Yugoslavia 120, Chile 121, Nigeria 130 & Malaysia 320.
Austria 119 & Ecuador 124 have Stabiliser 4 (they are unarmed), all others have 0.
Survivability is mixed, to say the least. Israel 260, Taiwan 105, ARVN 85, Pakistan 399, Belgium 200, Greece 511, Turkey 493, Thailand 495 & Cambodia 120 have 2; France 502, UK 528, Jordan 105, Iran 260, USA 288, USMC 158, Canada 408, Denmark 115, Brazil 116, Chile 121, Nigeria 130 & Malaysia 320 have 3; Japan 344, Yugoslavia 120, Green 118, Argentina 528, Austria 119, Thailand 494, Indonesia 116 & Ecuador 124 have 4.
Likewise, the Steel HF figure is very variable:- Israel 260, France 502, Taiwan 105, Pakistan 399, Belgium 200, Greece 511, Turkey 493 & Thailand 495 have 3; Green 118, Austria 119 & Ecuador 124 have 4; Japan 344 & Jordan 105 have 6; UK 528, Canada 408, Yugoslavia 120, Nigeria 130 & Malaysia 320 have 8; Iran 260 & Denmark 115 have 10, and the remainder have 5.
I’d be tempted to go for Survivability 3 & HF 5, as the H-34 standard is 3/6.

Sikorsky S-58/H-34 – Sudan 111 is Size 3, all others are 4. It also has Stabiliser 2, although unarmed.
Iran 268, Taiwan 104, Pakistan 407, Belgium 201 and W.Germany 325 & 326 have Survivability 2, Italy 491 has 4, standard is 3.
Netherlands 508 has Stabiliser 0, although it is armed.
Iran 268, Thailand 496 & 497, Chad 226 & Uruguay 275 have ‘Steel HF’ 5, Sudan 111 has 4, standard is 6.

Sikorsky S-61/Westland Sea King – UK 532, 536 & 575 have Survivability 3, all others have 4.
UK 575 has Stabiliser 0, standard for the armed version is 4.
Belgium 199 has Stabiliser 4, although unarmed.
UK 532 & Malaysia 324 have ‘Steel HF’ 12, standard is 14.

Sikorsky UH-60/S-70 – Turkey 496, 499 & 500 have Speed 80, standard is 99.
Argentina 536 has Lift Capacity 114, all others have 214.
Gulf 568 and S.Korea 111 & 112 have Stabiliser 2, Israel 265 has 3, standard is 4.
Israel 265 & Brazil 124 have Armour 10/2/2/2/2/2/0, Green 119 & Brazil 125 have 12/4/2/2/2/2/0 – I didn’t think this worked with helicopters.
Chile 128 has Armour 12/4, standard is 10/2.

Vertol H 21 – France 510 is listed as this, although it has most of the stats of a CH-34. France had both types, so it’s an interesting one. Every other H-21 in the game is Heavy Helo class and has a Steel HF figure of 12 (this unit has 5). The relevant formations in the oob are covered by other units.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

It's overstated anyway. Russian and Polish sources all say max speed was 170 km/h - some 57.

You're probably right. Besides, this unit is of dubious use - it's specialized ASW or SAR helicopter, not seen upon land normally - and it shouldn't be armed with anything but torpedoes (it has 12.7 DShK)

Michal

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Just to complicate your life you when doing your comparisons keep in mind :
Bell 204 = UH-1B
Bell 205 = UH-1H
Bell 212 = UH-1N
Bell 214 = Variant on the Bell 205 with larger engine
Bell 412 = Bell 212 with 4-blade (i.e. Canadian Bell CH-146 Griffon)
S-61 = SH-3 Sea King

Re: Anomaly reports
 

@ Suhiir - yeah thanks, complications are always fun:D

Class 203 – Attack Helicopter

81 helicopters in this class have ATGW or AAM as primary armament, but have RoF 9. It may be a design thing, so I shan’t bother listing them. If it isn’t a design thing, let me know & I’ll do the list.

Aerospatiale AS.550 Fennec – Denmark 122 has Size 3, standard for the Ecureuil series is 2.

Aerospatiale SA.365 Panther – Saudi 548 has a ‘Steel HR’ value of 1.
SA.565 – ‘Armour’ figures differ: Israel 271 has 8/2, China 483 has 12/6, Gulf 115 has 9/2, Angola 153 has 8/0.

Aerospatiale AS.532 Cougar – Switzerland 222 has Speed 80, standard is 93 or 108. It also has ‘Steel HF’ 10, standard is 12.

Sud Aviation Alouette III – Yugoslavia 126 has Stabiliser 3, India 122 has 4, Switzerland 214 has 0, others have 5.
Angola 151 has ‘Steel HF’ 5, all others have 4.

Sud-Est Alouette II – Switzerland 982 has RoF 6, standard for TOW-armed helicopters is 4 or 9.
Switzerland 983 has RoF 5, standard for mg-armed helos is 9.

Eurocopter EC 635 – Iraq 963 has RoF 4, primary armament is MG.

Agusta A.109 – Belgium 207 has Size 3, all others have 2.

Agusta A.129 Mangusta – Italy 504 & 506 have Size 1, all others have 2.

Kamov Ka-52 – Russia 374, 397 & 633 have Survivability 0. Struck me as odd for one of the most heavily-armoured helicopters in the game. However, I also note that very few Russian helicopters either in this class or in Class 221 have a Survivability rating, although they are given to exported versions.

Mil Mi-4 – NVA 222 has Stabiliser 2, E.Germany 115 has 5, standard for this class is 4.

Mil Mi-8 – E.Germany 120 has ‘Steel HS’ 0, standard for the TB version is 1.

Mil Mi-2 – E.Germany 117 has Survivability 3, standard is 4. It also has Stabiliser 5, standard is 4.

Mil Mi-24 – Slovakia 205 has ‘Steel HS’ 3, standard is 2.

Mil Mi-35 – India 123 & 124, Green 574 and Indonesia 612 have Survivability 4, all others have 5.
Cyprus 140 & 141 and Indonesia 612 have ‘Steel HS’ 2, all others have 3.

Westland Gazelle – Gulf 120 is the other helicopter (see previous class) with a Swim Speed. Unlike the Mi-14, the Gazelle does not have a boat-shaped hull, nor have I ever seen a model with floats.
Syria 138, Libya 131, Chad 235 & Kenya 151 have ‘Steel HS’ 1, all others have 0.

Bell UH-1 Huey – Iran 285, Turkey 476 & N.Yemen 123 have Survivability 3, standard is 4.
Italy 499 has Stabiliser 3, El Salvador 126 has 4, standard for gunship versions is 5.
Iran 285, S.Korea 115, Spain 511 & 512 and N.Yemen 123 have ‘Steel HF’ 5, standard is 6.

Bell AH-1 Hueycobra – USMC 118 has Size 3, all other early models have 2.
Israel 273, NVA 225 & Spain 516 have Speed 74, standard is 92 or 111.
Pakistan 430 & 431 and Spain 515 & 516 have Survivability 2, S.Korea 120 has 4, standard is 3.
Taiwan 120 & 121 have Armour 8/2/1/1/1/1/0. As with the previous class, I didn’t think this could be done.

AH-1W – USMC 500 has ‘Steel HS’ 3, all others have 2.
Taiwan 120 & 121 and Turkey 479-481 have ‘Steel HF’ 8, others have 10.

Boeing-Vertol CH-47 Chinook – USA 905 has Armour 12/2/1/12/2/1/1. Comments as for AH-1.

Hughes 500/OH-6 – Japan 361 & 365 and Finland 524-526 have Size 1, all others have 2.
S.Korea 117 & Taiwan 117 have Speed 70, all others have at least 80.
Spain 583 & El Salvador 117 have FC & Rangefinder 0/0, all others have 5/3 They also have ‘Steel HS’ 0, all others have 1.
Japan 361 and Finland 524-526 have ‘Steel HF & HS’ 5/0, standard is 6/1.

McDonnell-Hughes AH-64 – Netherlands 523-526 have Survivability 2, all others have 3.

Sikorsky H-34 – France 481, 483 & 484 have Size 3, standard is 4.

Sikorsky UH-60/S-70 – Gulf 116 has Stabiliser 3, standard is 4.
Gulf 116 and Brazil 127 & 902 have Armour 10/2/2/2/2/2/0. Comments as for AH-1.
Chile 523 has a ‘Steel TS’ value of 2.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Helicopters are a headache, I'll come back to the other classes.

In the meantime, some nice easy Guards classes!

Class 89 – Guards Infantry

Iraq 432 & 433 have 20 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds, Iraq 434 has 16, all for 9 Crew.
Bosnia-H 94 have 6 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 7 Crew.
Saudi 483 & 484 have 16 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 6 Crew.


Class 90 – Guards Squad

Libya 515-518 have 20 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 9 Crew.
Switzerland 518, 930 & 931 have 6 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 4 Crew.
Nigeria 440 and Uganda 440 have 16 Weapon 4 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 9 Crew.


Class 91 – Light Guards

Poland 874-876 & 886 have 20 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 6 Crew.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Personally I found helos and aircraft (especially aircraft) to be the biggest pain in the rear when doing my OOB variant.
Probably one reason I'm a tad "excitable" concerning how WinSPMBT handles aircraft ... all that work for so little in-game utility :cry:

And it's 92 times worse for Andy & Don.

Re: Anomaly reports
 

Once I've finished this little exercise, downloading your mod is top of my hit list!

But for now - I'm still off helicopters, so here's a little flak.

Class 8 – Flak

Lots of anomalies here (mostly size-wise), especially if one follows the ‘Mobhack Guide’ to the letter. 80% of units up to 25mm are Size 1, so I’ve indicated those that aren’t. However, there are a lot (maybe 100+) of units in the 30-40mm bracket that are also Size 1, particularly those involving the 40mm Bofors. I’ve indicated them, if only because according to the Guide they should be Size 2, but changing them all would drive Don nuts!

12.7mm AAMG – Poland 622 & 623, NVA 289, Yugoslavia 459, Switzerland 752 & 753, Bosnia-H 459 and Croatia 459 are Size 0, all others (including other classes) are 1.
PLO 179 has Crew 3, all others have 4.
Poland 622 & 623 have Speed 3, all others have 2.
Poland 622 & 623, USA 522, Iraq 851, N.Korea 636, Yugoslavia 459, Austria 46, Cambodia 81, Croatia 459 and Lebanon 600 have Load Cost 1. Standard, at least in other classes with AAMG, is 0.
Paraguay 260 & 261 have 10 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds and 4 Crew.

12.7mm Quad M55 – S.Korea 205, Cyprus 103, Brazil 314 and Paraguay 259 have Speed 0, all others have 1.
Denmark 66 has Load Cost 1, Pakistan 376, Portugal 52 and Paraguay 259 have 3, all others have 2.
Malaysia 98 has 4 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 6 Crew.
Italy 169 & 171 have Size 2 (standard is 1) and RoF 8 (standard is 9). Italy 171 also has Speed 0, standard is 1, even with radar.

14.5mm ZPU-1 – Syria 262, PLO 180 and Afghanistan 271 have Crew 3, all others have 4.
Iraq 296 has Speed 2, all others have 1.
Albania 350 and Zimbabwe 89 have Load Cost 0, all others have 2.
Afghanistan 271 has 3 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.

14.5mm ZPU-2 – Yugoslavia 461 & 462 have Size 2, all others have 1.
PLO 181, NVA 293, Afghanistan 272, E.Germany 86, Czech 86, Hungary 86, Romania 86 and Bulgaria 304 have Crew 3, all others have 4.
Pakistan 378 has Load Cost 3, Poland 86, Hungary 86, Red 86 and Viet Cong 86 have 1, all others have 2.
Afghanistan 272, E.Germany 86, Czech 86 and Hungary 86 have 3 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.

14.5mm ZPU-4 – Yugoslavia 463-465, Bosnia 465 and Croatia 465 have Size 2, all others have 1.
Syria 264, Russia 417, China 442 & 444, Iraq 298, N.Korea 84 and Lebanon 602 have Crew 6, all others have 4.
Poland 87, Syria 264, Viet Cong 87 and Nicaragua 317 have Load Cost 2, all others have 3
Russia 417, China 442 & 444, Iraq 298, N.Korea 84 and Lebanon 602 have 6 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.

20mm Hispano/Oerlikon – all 27 of these are Size 2, which is the standard size of a 37-40mm. From the photos, they don’t have a significantly larger footprint than, for example, the Vulcan, which is generally Size 1 even with radar fire control. The units concerned are :- Israel 166, Belgium 67, Romania 84, Argentina 312, Austria 47 & 48, Switzerland 82, 84 & 777-789, Kenya 334, Bulgaria 301 and Uruguay 151.
Israel 166, Belgium 67, Kenya 334 and Bulgaria 301 have Crew 7 and Load Cost 3, standard is 3/1.
Romania 84 has Crew 6, standard is 3.
Israel 166 has 4 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds.

20mm M55 – Paraguay 262 has Size 2, Crew 3 and Load Cost 1, all others have 1/6/2.

20mm M55 x 3 – Yugoslavia 470 & 471, Switzerland 83, Bosnia 471, Croatia 471 and Indonesia 318 have Size 2, others have 1.
Green 318 & El Salvador 318 have Crew 7, Cyprus 104 has 6, standard is 5. They all also have Load Cost 3, standard is 2.
Cyprus 104 has Speed 0, standard is 1.

Switzerland 776 is in name a 34mm unit, but its primary weapon is quad 20mm (Weapon 71). Weapon 79 is 34mm.

20mm M75 – Yugoslavia 467 & 468, Bosnia 468 & Croatia 468 have Size 2, standard size for 20mm AA is 1.
Peru 317 has Crew 6, others have 3.

20mm Rh202 – Greece 174 & Indonesia 317 have Crew 7 and Load Cost 3, all others have 3/1.

20mm Vulcan – Belgium 68 is Size 2, all others are 1.
Jordan 322 & 323 have Crew 7, Uruguay 153 & 154 have 3, all others have 4.
Egypt 203, USA 234, Gulf 292 & 293, Belgium 68, Thailand 161 and Saudi 292 have Speed 1, standard for the radar-equipped version is 0.
Egypt 203 has 3 Weapon 2 (SKS Carbine) rounds.

23mm ZU-23 – Poland 79, 88, 95 & 619, NVA 295, Romania 88 & 106, Yugoslavia 473 & 474, Algeria 161, Bosnia 474, Croatia 474, Chad 167, Finland 92 & 93, Kenya 328, Zimbabwe 92, Ukraine 418 and Mozambique 29 have Size 2, all others have 1.
Poland 79, 95 & 619, Finland 92 & 93, Viet Cong 88 and Nicaragua 318 have Crew 6, all others have 4.
Poland 79, 95 & 619, Jordan 321, Russia 418, 794, 797, 799, 814 & 816, Yugoslavia 473 & 474, Bosnia 474, Croatia 474 and Lebanon 603 have Load Cost 3, all others have 4.

25mm Mle.39 – Austria 49 has Crew 3, Romania 85 has 6. As the older AA guns tended to have larger crews than more modern types, I would incline towards the Romanian figure, but have no supporting evidence.

30mm M1992 - N.Korea 86 has Size 3, standard is 2.

30mm Oerlikon – Taiwan 207, S.Korea 207, Greece 178, Italy 172, Libya 350, Argentina 314 and Sudan 561 are Size 1, standard is 2.
Greece 178 has Crew 4, Argentina 314 has 3, Finland 95 has 5.
Italy 172 and Sudan 561 have Crew 4, standard for a twin installation is 6.
Argentina 314 has Load Cost 1, standard is 3.

35mm Type 90 – China 449 is Size 3, standard for 35mm is 2.

35mm Oerlikon – Turkey 161-163, Spain 156 & 157, Romania 90 & 91, Cyprus 105 and Ecuador 317 have Crew 7, all others have 6.
Turkey 161 & 162, Spain 156 and Romania 90 have Load Cost 4, all others have 3.
Size 1 units:- Japan 110 & 111, UK 426, Canada 207 & 208, Greece 177 & 179, Turkey 161-163, Spain 156 & 157, Romania 90 & 91, Argentina 317, Cyprus 105, Malaysia 102 & 103, Ecuador 317.

37mm M1939 – Syria 261 and Czech 80 have Crew 6, standard is 8.
Poland 80, Syria 261, Russia 391, E.Germany 89, Czech 80, Hungary 80, Cuba 345 and Algeria 162 & 163 have Load Cost 3, Pakistan 379 has 1, standard is 4.

Size 1 37mm AA:- Syria 261, Iran 257, Pakistan 379, E.Germany 89, Cuba 345, Nicaragua 315, Bulgaria 302 & 303.

40mm Bofors – Belgium 51 has Crew 8, Italy 168 & 170 have 4, Netherlands 160 has 3, Norway 194, Finland 100 & 101 have 6, standard is 7.
USMC 49 & 941 have Speed 1, all others have 0.
Yugoslavia 476-478, Bosnia 477 & Croatia 477 have Load Cost 4, Italy 170 has 5, standard is 3, even for a radar-equipped mounting.
Italy 168, 170 & 173 have RoF 8, all others have 9.
Israel 167 & 168 have 4 Weapon 3 (Hand Grenade) rounds for 7 Crew.
Size 1 units:- Egypt 202, Israel 167 & 168, UK 424 & 425, Jordan 319 & 320, Iran 255, Australia 214 & 215, Gulf 290, Iraq 295, India 510-512, S.Korea 206, Taiwan 206, Mujahadeen 270, Pakistan 370 & 371, Afghanistan 270, Canada 205 & 206, Greece 176, Turkey 159 & 160, Spain 154 & 155, Denmark 64 & 65, Libya 345, Green 314 & 315, Argentina 315 & 316, Cyprus 102, Brazil 315 & 317, Cuba 340, S.Africa 124, Angola 330, Chile 315, Nigeria 330, Saudi 290, Sudan 555, Kenya 330-332, Indonesia 315 & 316, Malaysia 100 & 101, S.Yemen 290, N.Yemen 290, Ecuador 315, El Salvador 315, Nicaragua 319, Peru 315, Somalia 336, Tanzania 330, Uganda 330, Uruguay 150, Paraguay 265.

57mm M1950 – Russia 419 & 420, Pakistan 380 & 381, Cuba 346-348, Algeria 164 and Albania 353 & 354 have Crew 8, all others have 7.
Russia 419 & 420 and Yugoslavia 479-481 have Load Cost 4, all others have 3.
Size 2 units (Standard in the Guide is Size 3):- Egypt 207 & 208, Syria 266 & 267, PLO 184, Iran 258 & 259, Russia 420, Iraq 300, Mujahadeen 275, Pakistan 380 & 381, Afghanistan 275, Turkey 157, E.Germany 370 & 371, Libya 349, Cuba 346-348, Algeria 164, Albania 353 & 354, Angola 335 & 336, Ethiopia 349, Viet Cong 89, N.Yemen 294, Eritrea 335, Ukraine 419 & 420, Bulgaria 308, Somalia 335.

75mm – Switzerland 758 has Size 1, standard is 3.

Richard H

Re: Anomaly reports
 

It is believed to be used from prepared emplacements, as it requires an external power supply. Likely associated to radar targeting and similar gear. So perhaps it might be justifiable.

Re: Anomaly reports
 

The 'Mobhack Guide’ numbers are GUIDELINES put together so early OOB workers would have someplace to refer to when they had a question but after that it was up to them to determine the most appropriate size from known photographs. That NK gun is size three because that seemed the more appropriate size and given they were allowed some latitude it's no surprise they took it

Re: Anomaly reports
 

That's very interesting, given that there do not appear to be any known photographs of the M1990 static version (http://blog.daum.net/rodin/15963532)

.lbm 45500 is used for both this and the Greek Artemis system; I have attached the original of the lbm - it is an Artemis.

I will repeat this - these are anomalies, and without seeing a photo of the real thing, nobody can really make a judgment 'against the head', as they say in rugby.

Richard H