Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

It's ok Mark, no Sid did not kill my dog, but he drove me to kill my cat. J/K

After playing the game for a month, and finding new and disappointing things about it each and every time I played, I began to grow frustrated with it.

The topper was that stupid face the Military adviser makes whenever one of your cities falls.

In my case, I had betten the Brits back to 12 cities, and out of now where came massive amounts of british spear chuckers and despite my city defenses, (Tanks - Riflemen) they took the cities with no losses. That realy angered me, but when they would took 15 or so of my cities in one turn, I lost it. The game came out of the cd tray, and went strait into the "Give To Good Will" draw. I uninstalled the game, and went down and bought Empire Earth. (EE is a nice game so far.)

Even with the Civ3 editor, patched, the game still was not right. I loved the AI, and the diplomacy of the game, and would consider them to be top notch if not for the games lack of user control and customizability. Hell, Aaron is only one guy, and his game has nearly everything one could want, so why couldn't the hardend team at Civ3 produce a game to rock all games?

Civ3 was a major dissapointment to me, and I felt that it was something that people should know before they bought it. From the Posts in this thread, those who have the game, it would appear that I was not alone in my frustration with this game.

If you like, then I am very happy for you. Please accept that I was not happy with it, and chose to voice my opinion as such.

And welcome to the board. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

Atrocities: I hate to tell you, but the Empire Earth AI cheats too. Flagrently. (heck, the scenerio editor has a box on the AI settings tha says "AI cheats?" so you can say yes/no)

Phoenix-D

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

Yes I know, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif , But I have a compensator. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif If needed, CHEAT CODES. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

I think I am the only person who has not played any of the civ games.

When I first saw the game I thought. Gee no space, no armies, no play. And I have stuck to my guns. I have tried civ and civ type games,,,, I can't stand them, Don't know why. Just never liked them. And since I am over 30 I will not change my ways http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

I know this is off topic for the off topic do not buy civ 3

but the other day I reinstalled BOTF.

50 turns later the game was removed.

That game sucked.

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

BOTF is a game that you have to spend time to learn. The AI sucked, and some of the other features did too. Over all, when I first bought it, it angered me greatly, but after a few weeks, the game grew on me.

Now, I view BOTF as one of those games that should have been supported, but was not, and that is our loss, and is why micrprose no longer holds any Star Trek licences.

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

yep.. more of the same. in CIV 1, little settlers, or colonists, or whatever the heck they were would repeatedly destroy my battleships. the CIV games have always been in the bad habit of taken a defeated AI and somehow screwing with their unit statistics to make their outdated pissy units both numerous and undefeatable. its really frustrating, i have given up on CIV. amazingly, SMAC did not cheat that way and was a fairly solid game.. dispite the fact that the game play was exactly the same as CIV and it was just more of the same (with a unit editor, if you want to call it that).

and as Mark P said: what the heck is STC?

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

Sorry for the editing I was just playing with it for a while, YEEeee HAA!!!

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

sort of like ghost writers huh. dont you hate it when a good author starts handing his story ideas over to other people. its like saying "im so good that i dont even have to try anymore"

just like any self righteous bum that puts their name on video games. "sid myers this" and "peter molyniehooayuxez that" (however the hell you spell his name). the only thing that i can think of that is possibly worse is arrogant bastards that pLaster their cheesy www handle onto the title of their SE4 games over on seiv.pbw.cc i mean, what over-inflated ego started that anyway?

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

I have been playing CIV3 for the Last 4 weeks. It is a good game and except for the crashes it is fun. Firaxis has said they will support the game and if they do it will be a great game. What upsets me is all the hype and all the great Ratings. In its current state the game is not that great. I think all the great Ratings is based on reputation because it is a Sid game, even though he did not work on it very much if at all. It has a lot of potential but so did CTP and BOTF. The question is, will Firaxis support the game so it reaches that potential.

I saw the potential in CTP and user mods made it into a a very good game. (with little to no help from Activision). I saw the potential in BOTF but even with a lot of work from the user community, the hard coded limitations made the game totally frustrating and not fun and is no longer on my hard drive.

If Firaxis supports CIV3 with patches (definitely more then one will be needed) through the next year then I think CIV3 will be a great game. Currently it is a good game with lots of potential, but also lots of problems and IMO does not desire all the great Ratings and hype.

However, even though I was a CIV fan first, I would rate SEIV at least twice as good as CIV3. I gave SEIV gold as Christmas presents to my nephews by giving them an "I owe you 1 SEIV gold game" in their card. After showing them the current game, they can not wait.

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

You know, if they would fix the problems, and improve the UI, add some features, and fine tune the game, ya it would be a very fun game.

But will they?

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

I also think that CIV3 is a rather bad game. I am wondering of all the good press about this game out there. I prefer a good patched and modded CTPII to everything Meyer and his gang has released (ok I liked colonisation a little bit) in the Last years.

IMO the problems are:
1. the combat system. Sid Meyer used the movement and combat system of the old PC-game empire (or final destiny) since the first incarnation of Civ. I dont have any idea why he didnt change this obsolete system in CIV3. I mean CTPI and CTPII showed everybody an acceptable combat concept with balancing armies and interesting troop attributes.

2. the workers and settlers. Why by the heck does CIV3 use this ancient and tedious concept? The public works system of CTP series works much more simple and better.

3. I like also the SF setting of CTP with all its wonderful underwater cities, submarines and technologies- its simple more game than CIV3.

4. And Last but not least I love all these non-military units of CTP. (Lawers, slave hunters etc.) They provide a alternative kind of game.

All in all the big failure of Civ is done by their designers. They seem to be too arrogant to learn from another civ-incarnations to improve their own game. And thats why this game disappeared from my HD several days ago - now my copy is on ebay for sale and I doubt that I will buy again something from Firaxis.

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

Well, I got my Civ III for Christmas. I don't have any problems with it other than its just more of the same http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I also find the new interface to be cumbersome.

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

As for myself I think Civ 3, needs a lot of improvement . And I’ve haven’t play it from the time I got EU2 which is a much better game by the way. But I just wish Sid will put in some more time with his games, than to delegate it to someone who does not care to design or make a game. I still remember the first time that I played Civ 2, It was just fantastic, Almost as good as playing MOO for the first time. And now I think I’m getting vary tired and old. But then you have SEIV and EU2 whitch are bringing back the good old times.

[ 26 December 2001: Message edited by: MarkP ]

[ 26 December 2001: Message edited by: MarkP ]</p>

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

Atrocities,

My experience with CivIII was surprisingly similar to yours, but we seem to have come to slightly different conclusions. I too shared my starting continent with the Brits. After several hundred years of a mutually profitable trade relationship, Elizabeth broke it to attack with swarms of ground units. I too had more cities and better technology, and I too was losing. (What was worse, Elizabeth managed to enlist just about everyone else in the world in her cause of exterminating Evil Me.) When I lost three elite Knight units trying to kill a lone regular Spearman defending unfortified in open terrain, I too almost lost it. Ridiculous!

After I cooled off, I took a closer look at the combat system. It turns out that, like the earlier Civ games (though to a lesser degree), the combat system strongly favors quantity over quality. The benefits of higher attack and defense values are just not as great as their numeric values might suggest. This means of course that defending cities with small numbers of high quality units is a prescription for losing cities, and attacking with small numbers of high quality units is a prescription for losing a war of attrition in very short order.

Despite being a little slow to realize all this, I did manage to exterminate the English and achieve a rough stand-off parity with the rest of my opponents, although it cost me about 40% of my cities and took about 500 years. In the process I discovered that some subtleties in the game that weren't initially obvious (similar to your experience, and mine, with BOTF). Some of these subtleties include the use of terrain on defense, the use of bombardment units, and the use of the better mobility of the more advanced units (and your own transportation net, which, unlike in earlier Civ games, your opponent can't benefit from) to create local firepower superiorities.

My point here is that CivIII could definitely have been a *much* better game, but like BOTF I think it does reward some patient effort. After your frustrations have cooled a bit, you might want to give it another try before giving it to Goodwill. Just a thought.

L.

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

From what I have seen of this game, I will not buy it. I do agree that a patched and modded Version of CTP II is a much improved game over strait CTP II.

CTP was a lot of fun. I look forward to the day I can play CTP III if one is to come out.

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

I'm going to come to poor old Civ III's defence mainly coz everyone seemed to be comparing it to CTP and CTPII which I thought both were complete rubbish (that I still happily spent my cash on thou).

First here's my good points.
1. Its not CTP. I never played the modded Version but I tried to follow the patches for a while. I never found this game hard, even remotely difficult. The hardest bit was bothering to win.

2. Strategic resources. Thats a cool idea and really changes some of the concepts of the city placement and unit building.

3. Culture border thingy. Means I can justify packing my cities in and overlap some squares.

4. Diplomacy and trade seem good. Although I've never seen anyone bribe me for a peace deal (which sux, I don't call off my swordsmen for nothing).

5. AI. Mentioned already but it seems quite good, even whacked me around a bit.Once it even sent in a suicide soldier to pillage a road to my only iron source! (which may have been pure fluke by the way).

6. The little things. They have made heaps of little tweaks to various aspects of the game. No rush building wonders (I can't collect the whole set no more), no have enemy tanks using your transport system against you and getting rid of ZOC for example. I get the feeling that the design team has had a good look at what were all the faults with CIV and CIV II and made a serious effort to eliminate them.

And just coz a I'm a fair boy I'll acknowledge some faults.
1. I have had the game for about 5 days and have hardly slept. I'm staying up to 4am playing (just until my communist government kicks in) and waking up 4 hours later to go to work. Its been hell.

2. Speed. Watching an allied AI move 50 cavalry through your territory, even with animations off, is painfully slow. I think thats the real reason I stay up to 4am.

3. Information. Its a pain working out what cities are rebelling, which one has the high production and I can't seem to find what my allies are researching (all which was much easier in previous Versions).

4. It is pretty much the same. But so was CIV II and I still played that non stop.

5. No multiplayer. What happened there?!

So for the momemnt I give the thumbs up for the game!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Mainly coz of AI.


And just FYI.
Sid had not that much to do with Civ II either. Its was Jeff Briggs (who pretty much did III) and Brian Reynolds (who was the big man an Alpha Centauri).
Brian left Firaxis about 6 months after Alpha Centauri, so I really wonder how much of an effect that had on the end result of CIV III.

Cheers all,
Askan

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

Response to Askan post.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>2. Strategic resources. Thats a cool idea and really changes some of the concepts of the city placement and unit building<hr></blockquote>

Good point, I must agree, that the Strategic resources was a good idea, and does lend toward the games appeal.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>3. Culture border thingy. Means I can justify packing my cities in and overlap some squares.<hr></blockquote>

Your right again, this did help me gain a few enemy cities.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>4. Diplomacy and trade seem good. Although I've never seen anyone bribe me for a peace deal (which sux, I don't call off my swordsmen for nothing).<hr></blockquote>

This is one of the indeering qualities of this game, and is one that I have stated I liked.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>5. AI. Mentioned already but it seems quite good, even whacked me around a bit.Once it even sent in a suicide soldier to pillage a road to my only iron source! (which may have been pure fluke by the way).<hr></blockquote>

Agreed, the AI in this game is rather good.

I feel the game is salvageable, but in order to do that, a lot of thing will need to be done. Mentioned already in this thread are just a few of the improvements that could be made. Again, I ask, will they make them? Answer, probibly not. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

Civ 3 is alright but could have been a lot better. And It also would be a lot pleasurable{ “if people would stop trashing it”} and making everyone who have the game feel like sh*t.

WHO wants to play a game, that everyone says is crap.????????

[ 27 December 2001: Message edited by: MarkP ]</p>

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

Noone wants to make you fell like anything, MarkP. The people here talk about a game. I don't see how this can make you fell like sh*t. If any game would make me feel a way I would feel like superman for playing SE4. As I'm not wearing a blue/read dress, I would say, it did not make me feel like it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

Alright when I was thinking of my Last post I detent have a chance to read Atrocities post, But I’m glad that you will give it a chance when it gets better.

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

MarkP, its not that I hate the game, its that I dislike its current condition. Hell ya I will play the game once some of the issues have been corrected. Man I stayed up overnight playing it for several days. I played if for a month before getting ticked off at the stupid Military adviser, the one that makes the really dumb and annoying face and really does not help you.

The game has a lot to offer, and you should be proud that you enjoy it, and have it. I know that even if the game does not get improved, I still somewhat enjoyed it.

As Mephisto said, if a game can make you feel anything, SEIV would make a person feel like superman. Civ3 made me feel like a dark lord full of anger, and I had to step away from it. It may make others feel like Kings, and for a while it did that for me, but to me, the game is like that Ring in LOR's, it eventually took over my mind and made me evil..... wonders off to hurt something ........ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

Well, my daughter got me CIV3 for Xmas, so I will give it a try eventually, currently also got EU2 for xmas and that's what I'm playing around with for now, also ordered SEIV-gold.

Yin, sorry I didn't get to read your message sooner, didn't get my son Battle Realms but he has birthday in March, I'll get it for him then, I got him Conquest and Napoleon at Australitz by Matrix. They'll keep him busy until then, but tks for the info on the game

just some ideas mac

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

I havn't made it through the entire thread yet, but if no one has posted the link to Illwinter's site it is:

http://www.illwinter.com/dom_intro.html

I'm downloading the demo now as it looks pretty cool.

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

Menschenfresser here...had to get a new account for stupid reasons.

I haven't read the whole thread so forgive if this have been stated before, but I noticed that several people were harkening back to olden days when war games and strategy games were simple but excellent. Some listed were: Global Conquest, Empire Deluxe, etc. I haven't looked them all up, but check out www.theunderdogs.org for old abandonware games. I know they have the two I listed. The games don't always work, so be warned, but I do know Empire works. And the web site is often extremely slow, but if you show a little patience, you will come out with some old classics. Most of the games have manuals as well.

Enjoy.

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

Mens..... in regards to the old games, did they upgrade them to windows format? do they play any better then before, I really enjoyed Empire Delux, was a fun game. tks I ck the site

mac

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

another good site is

matrixgames for old ones
and don't forget

http://www.militarygamer.net/
http://www.navalwarfare.net/
use it as a portal for all your military gaming needs

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

Mac,
Some yes, some no. I don't know what sort of issuses you had with the old Versions, but the ones that I get to work, usually work fine. I did come across one RPG (don't remember the name now), that hadn't been recalibrated for newer, faster machines (at least I assume that is the problem) because the movement of the game was extremely fast (light speed). Most war games don't have that problem. Although I did run into it when I bought an old copy of The Ancient Art of War for a resale shop. The animated battles happened at light speed and I had about enough time to get in one maybe two commands before it was over.

If you are worried about it working and don't want to waste hours waiting for a d/l that won't work, check their forum. You can find complaints there about games not working.

I've only played two games on the Empire Deluxe I got from there and both went fine, but off the top of my head I can't remember if it ran in windows or Dos.

And thanks Tesco for the others...

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

Mens.....I was just wondering if they would work in windows on a faster machine. Thought of same problem you had, with moving way to fast to enjoy. They worked fine on my old atari & commodore, just didn't know if the would work right on my Dell 733. tks for the info.

Yes, tks TS for the other sites, will ck them out

just some ideas mac http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

A neat one is "AlphaMan". (Absolutely no speed problems)
You're a mutant in a future wasteland, and have to fight your way through forests & explore buildings & stuff.
You get 2 random mutant powers at the start to keep things different.

The thing I like best is that all of the hightechtoys & most items are given nonsense names until you figure them out.
You have to fiddle around with the "Large Metal Object" for a while before you figure out that its a hovercraft.
(And the names are randomized each game, so you can't memorize it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

I'd love to have that sort of thing in SE4, where players don't know what each tech area will provide until they've figured out the prerequisite techs.

[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: suicide_junkie ]</p>

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

If the old games run too fast, there's always MoSlo. Slows your computer down so the games are playable.

Still looking for a playable Version of Xcom 1/2 myself, and another MOO2. (MOO1 too maybe). I had all those minus MOO1, care of gifts and a "retro gaming" PC gamer CD, but lost them. Found other downloadable Versions of x-com, but unlike the PCG Version they don't work right- very slow in the base screen/menus, very FAST on the globe screen.

Phoenix-D

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

SJ, I like your idea, sorta like 1 or 2 mystery type techs, chance you take to research because you don't know what your going to get or how good they will be or how good they get the higher up you go in the tree. Throw in a random number of them so you don't get the same ones each game so you can't memorize them and know which ones you want or don't want. Great idea, limitless possibilities if it can be done. Also make it moddable for you modders http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

just some ideas mac

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

Well the latest patch was released recently, and the game has progressed from very annoying do not buy to "hey this kinda fun" ok to buy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The Expansion pack has been announced and it promises to make a lot more improvements. So what the hell, I have upgraded my "Do Not Buy" "Buy if your really board" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Heh... what'd I say months ago? Development of any signifigant program is now completed in public. DON'T BUY FIRST RELEASES -- unless you want to finance development.

I figured that Civ III would be a pretty decent program about a year after release. Looks like it's on track. When MOO III is released in public beta I'll buy Civ III. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 05, 2002, 16:34: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

What? They will make us pay more money for the most important feature (MP) that should have been in the initial release? Ridiculous!

Edit:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is just sickening.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yet another lacked feature in the release that crippled the game IMO.

[ June 06, 2002, 03:18: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

I still say this game is utter complete crap!

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

Thread necromancy! Evil! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/skull.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

You betcha my young and equally evil friend. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

/me is trying to find the very first topic in SE4 forum to bring it to life.

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

It was moved to the 2000 Archives or something like that a long time ago...

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

Wow, talk about digging.
I like Civ3 Conquests... buuuut... I never play it unmodded.
At the moment I use the "Rise and Rule" mod, which makes the game approximately a million times more fun, by speeding up ships, allowing stealth bombers a hell of a lot more range, and adding hundreds on hundreds of new units and buildings and wonders.

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

This from the guy who spent an hour arguing that animating the dead is not intrinsically evil http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

Its already been done at least twice before. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

"Break out the padddels, its CPR time!"

Re: Off Topic DO NOT BUY CIV 3
 

It is not. But thread necromancy is one of the evil uses it can be put to. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif