Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

what the hell. Do you realize i did play until the last possible turn ? The last 4 turns i was basicly opening up the turn, rallying troops and send the turn. There was nothing i could with 150 ulms to the left, 150x2 pythium to the left and caelum to the top.

Unless im wrong, this game was a test game for the faded magic mod. a TEST game. I did test it until the last possible turn. Scripting the siege would have changed NOTHING, not with the research i had against 150 prot 20 ulm guys. Holy mow.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

Ragnarok-X, it was a test game in the sense that I changed a lot of settings and I can't vouch for this all being balanced. But it was a real game in that I very much expect people to play to win and to fight to the end. Hrum summed it up well. Yes, I understand that you basically had no chance and that if Ulm didn't kill you then Pythium would have. But what I was asking was that we all play to the last turn, inflicting as much damage as we can. I thought I had made this clear in the game description but I'll try to state it more clearly next time.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

Tell you what. Tell Ulm to suicide 30 of his high-res troops into pythiums army and be in awe, for balance is finally restored.
In all honesty, these 15 skratti and 2 gwyags would have done nothing with evo 2. Best think would have been self-buff quickness and shapeshift and melee in.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

In the middle of a business trip - I'd like to request a 6hr extension please!

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

Good timing, I was just checking the forums. :) I'll add 12 hours to play it safe.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

Difficult turn - I really wasn't sure what action to take. We'll see how things turn out.

And I expect soon enough we'll see which summons people focus on. I am of course very interested to see how this develops.

Currently I find these low magic games more fun than normal games with late game magic. I think for the next one I'll try running one in the EA for the first time and I've begun working on the changes for that setting. Given the lack of humanoid SCs I expect having recruitable SCs will be an even bigger advantage than normal but given the number of EA nations that have such units combined with a smaller game there should be enough SC nations to go around if that's what people prefer. I can't possibly go two games in a row without a glamour nation so I'll go with TNN. ;) If any of you would like to play feel free to choose a nation already. The game won't begin for a few weeks yet and will, like this game, have a relaxed hosting schedule and make accommodations for vacations if needed.

Btw, I'm enjoying Caelum so far. In test games I found the old age on the mages annoying but manageable. With the exception of winter of year two, in which an absurd number of my mages got afflictions, it hasn't been too bad to deal with. And of course the mobility that flight provides is very nice.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

I also think next game I'll go with easy research, to get the action started more quickly. Take an awake rainbow pretender and you can have your expansion parties tossing around lightning bolts and fireballs. :p

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

I'm going to need some more time for this turn so I've postponed hosting by 24 hours.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

Actually it would be great if I could have a further 12 hours as I have restricted (i.e. the family...) access to my DOM computer till get home (3day weekend here)


I am all for another game thats no/limited diplo!
Will probably try Lanka (not definite)

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

Sure, 12 hours has been added.


Right, I forgot to mention that: it will definitely be no diplo. I'm sure at some point I'll play another game with diplo but right now I find I don't really have the time/patience for it.


Glad to have you on board for the next game! I'll reserve Lanka for you but of course feel free to switch nations if you want. I'll try to get a first draft of the mod with change log posted this week. Things are of course getting very busy in this game and I'll make changes depending on the feedback we get here but I was planning on similar settings, including having the dragon summons.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

Sorry for the tardiness, will be submitting the turn in soon

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

No problem - I'm sure you've got the most complicated situation to deal with of all of us.

Since there's just an hour until hosting I'll add some time to the clock to make sure you don't stale.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

The best laid plans of mice and men.... bleghhh


Just a heads up that I'll be travelling again this week til next so I might need some more liberal extensions ><

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

With no diplo games, it's always a guessing game how things will turn out. ;)

So, my unofficial goal this game has become to try out as many different thug/monster summons as possible. It's funny, while I've fought plenty of EDM summons since I play thug nations so often I think this is actually the first time I've used shishis and rocs myself. I like them and of course monstrums are quite fun for the completely random magic paths.

No problem. Actually, I may as well switch to 72 hour hosting one turn earlier than planned.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

Sorry, but I still have a lot of work to do on this turn and just found that I have to travel out of town tonight. Could I get 48 hours added to the clock, please?

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

Sure, hosting has been postponed by 48 hours.

I also wanted to mention to everyone that I haven't forgotten at all about trying out these low magic settings in an EA game. I did get a bit sidetracked by joining another experimental game recently but I mainly wanted to give this one some time develop so we could incorporate the feedback into the next game. And yes, I know that thus far only shard has expressed an interest in the next game but there's no harm in advertising it. :)

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

I pretty like the low magic idea, there is not much pressure on the research race and you can send plenty of your mages into the front line much earlier. That's fun.

I would be happy to join your new game.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

I agree and I think the same thing applies to gem usage. I tend to be a gem hoarder, saving them up for globals. Here there's no point in that and once you've completed your key research you're best off summoning and forging so you can increase your combat strength and get more territory.

And I plan on easy research next game so we'll get to the action even faster. :)


Great! Feel free to already choose a nation if you'd like (you can of course change it later if you change your mind). So far I'm going with TNN (surprise, surprise ;)) and shard is going with Lanka. I'm really liking Caelum and am tempted to try to them again but at least on paper I like MA Caelum better than EA. Eagle Kings make nice thugs but playing as much TNN/Eriu as I do I'm hard to impress on that front and to me recruit everywhere High Seraphs win out over cap only Eagle Kings.



I still have to finish going through EA nations in order to make changes to fit the game settings. I'll be using the same guidelines as here: adjusting prices on national blood summons along the same lines as I did here and making other changes to nations to fit the game settings.

I'm pretty happy with the monster summons in terms of utility but I'd appreciate feedback on prices. How do you all feel about the prices of monsters vs. the price of full slot thug options like the wendigo and ettin?

I also want to discuss a couple of EDM summons and some changes I had in mind for them.

First off, the wendigo. I like these guys, both in their normal SC form and in the thug role they have here. But because they take time to develop and I had other research priorities I haven't summoned any this game. But I've seen them around so I know they've seen action. For the next game I was planning on changing their magic from W3D3 to W2D2 and having them autocast soul vortex. They would start at size 2, move to size 3 the next turn and their final size 4 the following turn.

My idea was to focus them on being thugs rather than spellcasters. Reducing their magic to W2D2 would promote the kokythiad as the best way to reach D5 for monstrum summoning. Kokythiads and a variety of other summons would also be better ways to get high level W magic. When it comes to thugging the key D buff that is of use to them is soul vortex and this would give them access to that while not making them very good spellcasters. W2 is also enough for W based combat buffs. Having soul vortex autocast can be a bit of a drawback since there might be some situations where you don't want it; OTOH you get to cast it without incurring fatigue which has advantages. The quicker development I think just makes sense - in an easy research game I think the wendigo needs to be ready to go more quickly.

Just to be clear: I'm not intending this as a nerf to the wendigo but purely to promote it as a thug and other units as better WD spellcasters. But as I mentioned, I haven't had a chance to use them in this game and if you all feel it's a nerf let me know (but the one thing I think we definitely should go for is the quicker development time).

Then there's zmey. To review, I made the following zmey-focused changes for this game: prot 22 --> 20, misc slots 3 --> 2, and (the big one IMO) lychantropos' amulet 5 --> 10 N gems. These nerfs seem pretty light and I figured additional nerfs would likely be necessary. My plan was to reduce prot 2 more points, to 18, continuing with the line of thought that they zmey could dish out a lot of damage but was also vulnerable itself. There's plenty of other changes we could also make if needed (lower attack rating, map move 2, lower HP on each form, etc). Only thing ... I haven't seen a single zmey around. I certainly don't think the nerfs in this game were crippling to them so I assume it's just that people had other priorities. But this is a summon whose changes will depend on the feedback we get from this game.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

Thanks for you patience everyone. I should get my turn in tonight.

I really like the idea of trying this format in EA. It is hard to commit at the moment as its all I can do right now to keep up with the two games I am in. But, I would be very interested in playing Fomoria. It would be a great chance to try a new way to play them. And, without Fog Warriors or Dance of the Morrigans, it would be interesting. They may still need a bit more nerfing though as other nations may be affected much more. I don't know the game well enough to make those kind of judgements.

I agree with both the Wendigo and Zmey changes. Zmey's are just too overpowered for their cost in my opinion. And, the game doesn't need another high level DW mage. But, the Wendigo does make a colorful addition to the thug pantheon.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

No problem at all - you and ghoul are so quick getting your turns in I was a little concerned you'd get frustrated at the leisurely pace. In any case, you're certainly entitled to a postponement when needed (and you still got your turn in before shard and I, who win the slacker prizes for this game ;) ).


Glad to hear you're interested! With regard to Fomoria, as you noted Dance of the Morrigans will be out since it is too high a level but other than that the nation seems fine to me and I don't plan on any nation-specific nerfs for them.

In terms of balance decisions, I am of course using my best judgement as to game balance but there's no question that some of it is based on my personal likes/dislikes. For instance, I am of the opinion that generally speaking blood magic is underpriced and that's behind a lot of my changes in this area. That may be a minority viewpoint but I'm not he only one who feels that way. But my dislike of immortal units, especially blood based ones, is particular to me (as far as I know anyway) and removing vampires altogether isn't a choice many people would likely have made.

Aside from blood nerfs, the kind of thing that would catch my attention is something like Hinnom's Acha being able to heal. In a game where there's no GoH or chalice I have no intention of giving Hinnom risk-free mind hunts. Arco can have them - but Hinnom, no.

As regards timing, the next game will also have a relaxed pace and I view when we start in the same light. I'm glad we'll have several players from this game returning and if holding off on the start time until we get a bit further in this one helps in getting everyone on board I'm inclined to do that. And of course that will also give us better feedback for the next game.

I'll add a tentative roster for the next game to the bottom of the first post in the thread.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

Actually, considering my current position in this game I'll likely be ready for the next game at least as soon as everyone else is. Anyway, one of the things I happen to like about Fomoria is that it is decidedly low maintenance.

And, don't worry about the pace on my account. I like to get turns in quickly. But, my first submission is often a rough draft, something to submit in case an unexpected event prevents me from sending in a thoroughly vetted one. And, even once I am finished with a turn, I don't generally lack things to do while waiting for the next one.

On the other hand, I do get a bit irritated when I have to wait 48 hours for nearly every turn and we aren't even at turn 12 yet, but only because the player or players that set such a pace often tend to chronically stale or just plain go AWOL later. As long as that doesn't prove to be the case, I am content.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

Count me in as Yomi in the next game please.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

I'm not sure if any of you noticed, but Mists of Deception has been removed from the spell list from this game but I didn't mention it in my game summary. I didn't mention because I'd completely forgotten about it as I copied and pasted the spell changes from one mod to another. :p

This goes back to the Threefort game when several players thought it would be OP considering the game settings (Threefort also had some different settings than this game). So my question is, do you want to keep this spell banned or try letting it in? Though I guess we're a bit of a biased audience since so far we have three air nations and a fourth that has good A access through summons. ;)

If we do ban it then I'll need opinions regarding TNN's Faerie Mists. Faerie Mists is based on the Howl spell only instead of summoning wolves it summons phantasmal sidhe warriors/lords, etc. Summons are generated for between 6-20 turns depending on the type of phantasm. MoD is different in that it keeps summoning phantasms through the entire course of the battle. According to the wiki it summons 1 * the level of the caster summons per turn.

I have to admit I really like Faerie Mists. Just like Howl it can mess up an opponent's scripting but I also just get a kick out of seeing those ghostly national units running around. :)

But if there's objections to TNN having Faerie Mists while MoD is removed, no problem we'll remove it as well.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

So, I've been quite eager to start this game and have known for a while the pretender build I wanted to try. What I wasn't as eager to do was actually put the mod together. :p

But I finally forced myself to do so and I'm about to start a new thread to open recruitment (of course everyone who has already signed up has their nations reserved).

Most of the settings are the same as this game.

Quick summary of changes:

* Zmey drops 2 more points to prot 18. Also made it map move 2 which I think will open up long range raiding to thugs with flying boots or the various monsters.

* Wendigo is now W2D2 fixed magic paths, starts at size 2/18 HP, then size 3/50 HP, and next turn finishes at size 4/71 HP. Also autocasts soul vortex.

* Iron Dragon - I decided I would try to make it useful. I could have just lowered the price but instead kept it at 25 E gems and made it a commander and added a claw attack.

Those are the highlights. Also some spell pricing adjustments and various nation changes (most significantly no darkness on PD for Agartha, no healing for Hinnom).

Please download the mod from the new thread and give it a try. And remember to test it with easy research!

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

Thanks for fighting it out to the end, shard. Normally I would have been more cautious with that last fort but I obviously got distracted by new developments last turn and figured it was worth the risk to bring our war to a close.

I will remember two things in particular about this war:

Forts. Everywhere. Unending sieges. Caelum is good at sieges, but given limited resources it still took me a couple of turns on average to breach the walls of those high defense forts and then another to storm, all of which added up.

Bakemono Sorcerers. Every single scouting report seemed to be "there's about 20 units in the province, mainly bakemono sorcerers." WTF, those guys are 300 gold/each. How is he affording that on top of all those fort costs? Of course I know the answer: ultrascales. Still, it was really an insane number of mages.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

GG;

Im still in the middle of travelling and my poor netbook couldnt handle the graphics of that final battle - mind giving me a pm on what happened there i.e how much of a defense I actually managed to put up?

Ultrascales worked up to a point but I was hoping to find some good indy mages, especially air/astral but that just didn't happen. In the end I gambled on conquest to get my magical diversity and lost out :D
In hindsight a light bless for all those sorcerers might have been viable - if i could find a way to efficiently bless.

Will have more to say once its all done and dusted!

Good luck on the rest of the game!

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

Sure, I'll PM you now.


I did notice that lack and was quite surprised when a while back you had some air spells scripted in one of our battles - I always forget about Shin's national summons with A magic.

I've always found that Murphy's law applies to magic diversity. Almost without exception when I take a rainbow pretender I end up finding (with my national mages, not my site searching pretender) great indie mages that, in combination with my national mages, could do almost everything I had in mind for the rainbow. When I take a bless or ultrascales pretender I don't find any top notch indies.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

I've been meaning to say that I'm really glad I finally moved on from CBM 1.6 with this low magic series of games. The EDM summons and the "monster" summons make the whole thing much more fun. And I really like monstrums as magic diversity but with limited slots.

Midgame fun all the way through. :) I'll be interested for everyone's feedback afterwards but I think the balance is pretty good.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

And so Ulm finally falls. Nice job, Samhain. You held out for a long time.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

I was back from work very late today and just too tired for playing game... Valerius, could you please postpone the hosting by 24hr for this turn? Thanks!

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

Sure, hosting has been postponed 24 hours.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

KeithZ needs another 24 hours so I've postponed hosting. He also requested switching to 96 hour hosting, which seems reasonable given the number of provinces he has to manage (and for all intents we're already on 96 hour hosting since I've typically been postponing 24 hours each turn anyway).

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

Well it looks like Valerius has stopped playing


So I'm just going to declare KeithZ the winner

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

Apologies for the stale. I haven't stopped playing and will not stale this turn. Pythium is kicking my a** but that's another matter entirely.

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

Going AI, this game has been over for about 20 turns now

And these rules where SC's are cheap and super easy to cast is dumb

What the point of everyone having 100 monstrums and 100 frost dragons?

Re: Faded Magic - No diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - Running
 

I agree that Pythium has won. I think once it was down to three of us Agartha played kingmaker. Though if he'd attacked Pythium instead of me I'm still not sure that Agartha and Caelum together could have succeeded in taking down Pythium. Congrats KeithZ!

Thanks everyone for playing and apologies again for the recent stales.

Re: Faded Magic - no diplo, CBM 1.92, limited magic - KeithZ/Pythium wins!
 

Thanks everyone!

Thanks to Valerius for your mod. Although it became a little bit monotonous in the late game, I think I still like it. You don't need to think too much, just transfer all the resource into the summons and use them to fight. It's much more relaxed to play this one than a normal game, I was quite enjoying it. For MA, the balance is almost perfect, it may be a little advantage to have some national summons, but I think the best thugs are still the common ones, dragons, Zmey, monstrums, cheap and effective .