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HURRAH http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

deal completed - I am off home to bed

see y'all round http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

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Oh boys, I love this forum and had a good laugh about these Posts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Good night, Shrek!

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see y'all round ???????????

Country Music Stars will take offence to that.

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Congratulations, Growltigga! So we'll see you again in, what, about three days?

I'm a little confused about the 'circle the wagons' anecdotes. Did so many people really not know what the phrase means (which I would find surprising, and a shame)? Or did most know, but have their minds in the gutter (like, apparently, most people around here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )?

Quikngruvn

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Nighty night Growltigga, just remember, They say you usually dream of things said or done during the day, soooooo, look out for the "circle the wagon" or better known as the "Gryphin Position", let alone what you saw on his websight.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Quickngruvn, you will have to ask The Gryphin, like Growltigga said, he started it.....

I don't know if the studious facilitating of scientific research for the betterment of humanity with the discovery of a new, ahhhh, ummm,
field for study like the "Gryphin Position", would be considered "in the gutter" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif
"Science must go foreward"

just some ideas mac http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: mac5732 ]</p>

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Growltigga, I hope you rested well. This "Semi Off Topic Thread" was a lot of fun. I thank all those who participated and apologize to any that found it inappropriate or annoying.

I will try to stay on topic in the future. To that end, I will start the Topic, "Growtigga vs Gryphin, A Study in SE IV Play by Email and Human Internet Interaction". I will do this after Growtigga wakes up in order to get his agreement on the title.

Moderators:
If you feel a "Grw vs Gyf" is an inappropriate venture, please let me know. I can see one possible negative consequence of this "project". It could lead to several other similar Topics and an increase in web traffic. I don't know what it cost to maintain this forum. If it is based on "Page Hits", this could get excessive.
With all respect,
Steve Goodenough
Jan 20: 10:40 AM
I guess Growtigga is still sleeping or did he leave on that trip yet?
G

[ 20 January 2002: Message edited by: Gryphin ]</p>

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why bring the conversation out of the gutter?? it was just getting interesting

I still havn't gone home yet - it is 12.30 and I have now been in the office for 52 hours - cue sympathy bid http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

I think we finally got to a conclusion on what 'circle of wagons' means at about 04.30 this morning - unfortunately, given the high standards of this forum, I cannot reveal our conclusion to anyone who is not over 85 or preferably dead. Let it just be said that I am going to be nervous around marmite from now on and have some rather ambivalent feelings about cucumbers

DirectorTsaarx - I think you have summed up the millennium internet experience - teddy bears at dawn as we would say over here, a lot of people throwing toys out of prams - children, the whole lot of them

At least this site does seem to be frequented by people who are military history and science fiction buffs, are good natured, are interesting and at the end of the day, just want to talk about a shared passion ie SE

As Mac said, I dont think thre is anyone posting on this site I wouldn't be happy to have a glass of chablis with, even Puke! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by [K126]Mephisto:
Good night, Shrek!<hr></blockquote>

Mephisto - long legged Claudia Schiffer lookalikes can say I look like 'Shrek'

if you dont fall into this Category, you cannot

NB this has now raised another image I dont want to think of http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tesco samoa:
see y'all round ???????????

Country Music Stars will take offence to that.<hr></blockquote>


TS - good, one of few pleasures I have in life is insulting clowns and abusing country and western stars!

IMO, Nashville being hit by a meteor would count as gentrification

the only country music stars I like are Shania Twain and Faith Hill in each case provided they keep their cakeholes closed

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Quikngruvn:
Congratulations, Growltigga! So we'll see you again in, what, about three days?

[No - about 9 hours after my wife decided she wanted picking up from a drunken girl's night out]

I'm a little confused about the 'circle the wagons' anecdotes. Did so many people really not know what the phrase means (which I would find surprising, and a shame)? Or did most know, but have their minds in the gutter (like, apparently, most people around here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )?

[No we all knew about the defensive tactic employed by people who were predelected to employed transverse wheel mounted mobile storage and transportation equine-powered vehicles, it was hopw this phrase translated into the sort of thing discussed on 'adult' websites]

Quikngruvn<hr></blockquote>

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mac5732:
Nighty night Growltigga, just remember, They say you usually dream of things said or done during the day, soooooo, look out for the "circle the wagon" or better known as the "Gryphin Position", let alone what you saw on his websight.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
<hr></blockquote>

Mac, just dont ask, some things man is not meant to experience http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

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Gryphin,

Nah, unfortunately not asleep and have left on that trip - bit strange posting on the forum when I am about 1,200 miles away fromm where I usually sit - weird

"Growtigga vs Gryphin, A Study in SE IV Play by Email and Human Internet Interaction"??? - far too intelligent a title IMO, how about 'Idiots Abroad' or 'carpet burns - fact or friction?'?

Have you heard from the Moderators yet?

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Growltigga:

Mephisto - long legged Claudia Schiffer lookalikes can say I look like 'Shrek'
if you dont fall into this Category, you cannot<hr></blockquote>

Well, I'm afraid I don't fall into the Claudia Schiffer Category so I should not call you "Shrek". Then again, you can't do anything about it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

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fair comment Mephisto, I cannot do anything about it other than cry

you never though, I might this very minutes be lurking somewhere in Germany not too far away from you - scary thought

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Nothing really to add.

Just wanted to say that this is one of the most *&&^^%$ threads going.

Ha Ha Ha.

Cannot stop laughing.

I take it Claudia Schiffer looks alot different now than in the guess jeans days ??

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Nothing really to add.

Just wanted to say that this is one of the most *&&^^%$ threads going.

<hr></blockquote>

Tesco, what does "*&&^^%$" mean? is it Canadian slang for something like 'as much fun as snogging moose?'

Claudia still doesn't look too bad although her taste in men appears to be a bit spurious (David Copperfield??)

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mmmmm. guess jeans. . .

i would not mind having circled her wagon back then.

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PLEAASSSEEEE

CAN WE HAVE NO MORE REFERENCES (SLY, IMPLICIT, EXPLICIT OR OTHERWISE) TO "CIRCLING WAGONS"

Some things are best left alone

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Growltigga,
No word from Moderators. I interpret that as a "GO". I think the Topic should include our handles or the intent as I think many people want to follow our banter. I doubt they care about the game. How about Tigga vs Gryphin?

I won't tell you what one of my dates thought aobut, oh, um, er, me playing against a "Bloody Brit". Yep, that was what I was not going to mention.

Enjoy your trip

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Growltigga:
fair comment Mephisto, I cannot do anything about it other than cry

you never though, I might this very minutes be lurking somewhere in Germany not too far away from you - scary thought<hr></blockquote>

Mmm, I'm going to drive to the Rhein.Main-Airport in 5 minutes so we might meet there in 15 minutes. What do you think? And if you don't like "Shrek", how about being called Fiona? Well, I guess I get the donkey. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

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Growltigga, how does your friend down the hall look in relation to Elizabeth Hurly? She's a hunk

Now as for your supposed trip, you said you were going home to bed earlier, however, this was right after our, aahh, scientific discussion on the new research theory of the "Gryphin Position",
(pretty suspicious you know)
now either
1. you were going home to expostulate on the topic
of our discussion between your legged co-
worker and yourself
2. To see in dream-land the various hypothisis's
in conjunction between the two
3. To complete some studious actual research into
the realm of our discussion
4. Really go to sleep

However, I will defer to the actual discoverer of this new scientific endeavor "The Gryphin" as to which of the above theories fits in relation to further the scientific process. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

just some ideas mac http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

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mac, In one of his post, Growtigga mentioned going home to "make love to his Duvet". I wonder: What is a "duvet" and How does his girlfriend feel about him doing so.

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Gryphin, hmmmm, your right, I forgot about that, I tried looking Duvet up, but for some reason can't find it, this is getting even more suspicious as we go, I think that this needs to be looked at more carefully, I agree, just what is a Duvet and his relationship to it, versus his girlfriend..and it all started during our innocent discussion concerning scientific research, hmmmmmm, just what is he doing over there???? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

just some ideas mac

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mac5732:
Growltigga, how does your friend down the hall look in relation to Elizabeth Hurly? She's a hunk

Now as for your supposed trip, you said you were going home to bed earlier, however, this was right after our, aahh, scientific discussion on the new research theory of the "Gryphin Position",
(pretty suspicious you know)
now either
1. you were going home to expostulate on the topic
of our discussion between your legged co-
worker and yourself
2. To see in dream-land the various hypothisis's
in conjunction between the two
3. To complete some studious actual research into
the realm of our discussion
4. Really go to sleep

However, I will defer to the actual discoverer of this new scientific endeavor "The Gryphin" as to which of the above theories fits in relation to further the scientific process. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

just some ideas mac http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr></blockquote>

Mac, you are a dirty old man, I was actually going home to sleep - I think on this occassion, you need to keep 'just some of those ideas' to yourself

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mac5732:
Gryphin, hmmmm, your right, I forgot about that, I tried looking Duvet up, but for some reason can't find it, this is getting even more suspicious as we go, I think that this needs to be looked at more carefully, I agree, just what is a Duvet and his relationship to it, versus his girlfriend..and it all started during our innocent discussion concerning scientific research, hmmmmmm, just what is he doing over there???? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

just some ideas mac<hr></blockquote>

I would check the Oxford English Dictionary if I were you - "duvet" is a bed covering like a quilt or eiderdown - it has no ahem connotations at all and the phrase 'love affair with duvet' means you really really want to go to sleep

As for Mrs GT, she is always game on when sleeping is mentioned, that girl holds the records for 22 hours spent in bed on one day - I would point out I was about 350 miles away working at this time and yes she was on her own.

Now I think you two perverts need to combine a cold shower with a 3 mile run apiece

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(*^(*^ or some other combo is my way of swearing.


Now I have a question. I have to hide it in here because it is a question of ethics and it is about PBEM ethics ( and the person does come to this site every once in a while but only reads pure game Posts )

Now in the PBEM game 3 humans, 9 computer players 12 clusters 1 cluster each. ( designed map. where the humans start in each cornor and there is only one way out of each cluster to the middle cluster and all the middle clusters are connected with each other plus connected to the cluster above and below ( make sence ??)))
Any way it is a designed map.

I am in the top cornor and another human is in the opposite cornor.

At this current time in the game I have a higher level of cloaking than this other pbem player has in scanners. So I was scouting out the cluster below me ( to invade ) and what do I see but the player from far away has moved in and parked a huge fleet in this cluster below me ( 1 3rd of all there ships from what there saying or 100 ships ) Now we have not met yet in the game. But this fleet is just sitting there. This is in the system that links to his area of the map. While he is fighting a war in the cluster above him. This fleet does not move, it just gets ships sent to it to make it stronger.

I think this fleet is waiting in ambush for me. But in the game the player does not know I exist. So technically they should not be doing that.

Now I think that if this is what the player is doing then it is out of context of the game and cheating.

What do you think???

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Growltigga,
I was re - reading the post, I ran across this,
"You must remember the old military adage - "never engage in a direct frontal attack against an enemy equipped with efficient projectile weaponry"
Yes, I believe the English taught that to the French at Agincourt with the longbow.

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TS, I can think of several possibilities, either one of the other human players or even an AI one, that he has a treaty or partnership with has shown him your part of the map, or one of the players that has a higher cloak then yours found your system and gave him the info without your knowing it, or Last, he is planning a major offensive into the system he is fighting over or planning to invade yours thinking it belongs to the same enemy he is fighting. I don't know if there is a cheat but I guess it could be possible, but you may want to check out the other possiblities first.

PS. Growltigga, I took your advice and indulged myself in a cool shower, after all the illustrious discussions that took place here, it was getting a bit warm and my wife kept asking me why I kept looking at her with a twinkle in my eye all the time,.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I took the bull by the horns and put the blame on ..... But it didn't work, after all these years she knows me to well,
ahh, women don't understand the intricacies of scientific debate, research, and experimentation
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif but like someone once said, "Tommorrow is another Day" heh, heh,

just some ideas mac

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ts: is this supposed to be a RP game? if it is not, i would not worry about it at all and start planning for battle. since you have a symetrical map where rough starting positions are known, players are probably taking a pure tactical approach.

he could be doing lots of things with those ships. but if you found them while cloaked and thus avoided diplomatic contact and he is unaware of your existance in a role playing sense, (and IF it has been predetermined as a RP game where players have agreed to pretend not to know about each other until contact has been made) there are a couple possibilities. 1, he heard about your race from some third race. 2, he is 'cheating,' in the loosest interpretation of the word. in the second case, there are a few things you can do: 1, mention it to him and see what he says. 2, mention it to the game admin. 3, take note of whats happening now, and mention it after he sneak attacks you. 4, circle your wagons and prepair to defend yourself.

but if you were not aware of each other before, how do you know the total number of his ships to figure out that this group is 1/3 of that?

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TS, the way you have explained it, I agree that your map starting points is more the problem. It wouldn't matter if he knew exactly where you were. He would know that you started in one of the cornors and he could just build up until he was ready. I think your better off with a game where no one knows where each of you start.

just some ideas mac

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he told me he has over 300 ships and this fleet is about 1/3 of that total.

I have decided to take the fleet out since I believe he will keep it stationary near the warp point. So I can build up for another 4 to 6 turns and then send a fleet down there to attack it, before it attacks me.

I think it will only be fair to completely destroy the fleet and then talk about it afterwards and how I thought the 'surprise' was cheating...... then forget about the whole thing as a lession learned, and randomly create maps for now on.

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TS - I agree with Mac on this but I have to admit, keeping a third of your fleet sitting in an empty system where there is no apparent threat is decidely fishier than a week old herring.

I am personally (given my newness to actually playing SEIV - on turn 32 of my second game) extremely surprised as to the size of the fleet - 300 ships?? I presume these are all dinky types?

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Gryphin:
Growltigga,
I was re - reading the post, I ran across this,
"You must remember the old military adage - "never engage in a direct frontal attack against an enemy equipped with efficient projectile weaponry"
Yes, I believe the English taught that to the French at Agincourt with the longbow.<hr></blockquote>

We did, didn't we? - do you know, it must be something hereditary as everytime I see a Peuguot, Citroen or Renault, I always have an urge to shoot 3 feet of tempered steel and oak through the windscreen - strange that

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turn 74 and started with 10 planets. So they are criUsers, carriers, gun ships (350 kg ) and light cruisers. So were looking at 3rd and 2nd rate of the line ships. Battleships and dreadnaughts are starting to come out now.

10 Planet start really speads the game up.

At this point the top players should have almost 2.5 million points.

Those dinky class ships ( 400 kg and under are always useful especially with the defencive bonuses and extra engines )

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TS: As far as the ethical point of view, I think your opponent can be absolved of guilt. When you do a planned map, everyone knows roughly where the other players will be as the set up is supposed to give everyone a decent start. Given that, it would be almost impossible for someone not to let this knowledge influence their plans, short of deliberately putting themselves in a dumb position. Your opponent may have gone farther than others in using this knowledge, but I suspect everyone has used it to some extent.

The option of random starts is not one I like, as you can be given a hopeless position. However, it does avoid the situation of “impossible knowledge”, where people know something about the universe they shouldn’t. It is a trade off.

However, if you do not agree with me letting him off the hook, you can still look forward to administering your sentence and punishment on his fleet. Imagine his face when he opens his turn and finds his mighty fleet turned into a highly radioactive cloud by an invisible enemy. And if you do agree with me, I would still go ahead and hammer his fleet, it is a sound strategic move.

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"I am personally (given my newness to actually playing SEIV - on turn 32 of my second game) extremely surprised as to the size of the fleet - 300 ships?? I presume these are all dinky types?"

Not always. In one game my warp nexus defenses bLasted at least that many AI *dreadnaughts* into gas. Without loosing a unit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Favorable rate of exchange indeed..not all at once fortuntely, but one of my allies had over 500 ships; not all dinky by any means.

Phoenix-D

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when you say 2nd game do you mean you actually finished a game ??

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TS, I assume that this is a modded game, I've never seen these large of fleets in the original game.

just some ideas mac

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We increase units and ships to 5000.

And build build build.

Isn't this the norm out their.

Were talking a 10 planet start.

If it was 1 planet then the ship sizes would be down to about 60 to 80 ships at this point in the game.

3 planets then about at least 100 ships.

Are you saying that you do not build huge fleets????

Were talking Cruisers down here. It is still early in the game.

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tesco samoa:
If it was 1 planet then the ship sizes would be down to about 60 to 80 ships at this point in the game.
<hr></blockquote>

ah, that puts things into perspective

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I usually play 1 or 3 planets, large, high AI, med bonus, but never tried the 10 planet option yet, but in my games my fleets, later in the game, run 15-25 ships, the AI fleets, I have seen up to 30 but usually no more, most of the time in the 20 range and then they usually split up. This is original, un-modded. In hot seat that I play, the human fleets tend to be bigger but not the AI's, than's one reason I can't wait for the gold, hoping for larger AI fleets and planet invasions by AI (I know, I Know, some of the mods already do this) Just never had time to download a mod yet, another reason waiting for gold, most of them are in it, at least that's what i've heard.

just some ideas mac

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I did finish a game, or more like I was finished off by a game.

On my first game, I saw a post somewhere here that advised maxxing all the AI benefits to get a challenging game and then played on a small quadrant - the Amon'Krie and Xi'Chung were in systems pretty much adjacent to my own and I got whomped pretty sharpish I can tell you.

Second game is going well thank you

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mac5732:
in my games my fleets, later in the game, run 15-25 ships, the AI fleets, I have seen up to 30 but usually no more, most of the time in the 20 range and then they usually split up<hr></blockquote>

Mac, I have not got far enough in a game to see anything like an AI fleet of 20+ really, not without some help from me! I normally have 15-25 ships in my fleet which kind of means I generally will 'whomp' (is that the right word?) the AI in all cases.

I would like to know what sort of number of turns you have to get to in order to see large AI fleets with larger than cruiser-sized vessels!

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GT, it depends on what races are in the game, but turn wise, usually 100-150+, also depends on your tech. However, like I said, I have seen these types of fleets, but before you can fight them, they split up into smaller fleets and disperse. Usually I fight AI fleets in the range of 5-11 which usually attack your planets. One thing I have seen is massive ftr attackes. One game the AI launched 121 ftrs against me in one battle, others saw anywhere from 30-100 ftrs again depending on which races involved. I have also seen some difference between patch 1.35 and 1.49 in this regard, less ftrs, missles and more beam type weapons, but massive fleet battles are rare. AI just doesn't do it in original un-modded. That's why I'm looking foreward to the Gold Version hoping this changes. I've had fleets from AI that I had alliances with in range of 20-30 sitting over one of my planets but then they don't do anything, just sit there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif
I don't know if anyone else has seen these things but this is what I have seen.

Also, the AI doesn't build Battlestations very much, usually only around their home planet, but is rare. In old 1.35 did have one game tho, where AI had 4 Battlestations over one of his worlds, quite intereseting, would like to see that more, hopefully the GOLD Version will allow them to do it more.

just some ideas mac

[ 29 January 2002: Message edited by: mac5732 ]</p>

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Yeah Mac, just say it like it is!!

One day, over the rainbow or otherwise, there will be a game where the AI can doof derriere with the best of them.

I have not downloaded any Mod yet (and actually am not sure how to) but suicide junkie, tesco samoa, phoenix and others have all given useful hints

I still havn't got round to downloading any races which is something I always planned to do

pity that I am such a computer dipstick - that is the disadvantage when you have a whole host of the bespecacled types in the office to deal with any IT Queries for you

One day my prince will come

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If I was you growltigga I would figure out how to build and support large fleets of ships quickly.

To win a 4x game that is the key. Out produce the second and third place races combined totals.

U can pump out units any time but ship building must be a constant. I recommend you put 5 ship yard bases above your homeworlds and have them constantly building ships.

And during the first turns build storage devices to collect all that early game production.

That is one of the keys to the game. Storing production in the first 15 turns. Because by turn 15 You should have at least 60 000 of each resource stored up or you will get in production trouble

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Tesco, cheers for the steer - I do the storage malarkey already but do primarily built mineral storage only

as for building ships, I do have 2 orbital spaceyards above homeworld but I generally only churn out colony vessels (for which I use small transports rather than colony ships as I think they look better)

dont even build any military vessels until I bump into something nasty and green

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Growltigga, just don't build mineral storage,, each race uses up more of a particular resource, example, if you play oraganic, then you will use more organic resources then otherwise, temporal, I believe uses more Radioactives, etc. So see what your traits are, that will determine which way to go in storage, TS gave good advice, if you don't save and build, your in trouble down the line, (remember, you have game coming up with The Gryphin) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

PS. unreliable informants report the Gryphin hasn't been on the forum as much because he has been practicing, getting ready for your international challenge http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

just some ideas mac

[ 29 January 2002: Message edited by: mac5732 ]</p>

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You are right Maccy my boy but I play the unexciting uninteresting Solar Federation aka the Terran Confederation to you lot

By way of special abilities, I dont go for anything exciting like organic, temporal etc just plain ol' fast ships, advanced storage or summat like that, I can't wait until I get the scope on modding so I can come up with the abilities I would choose eg good lawyers (richest race in the galaxy), good drinkers (happiest race in the galaxy) etc

may be you should join in on this game - Guffin may just get all pervy on his tod

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"Pervy on his tod"? Next GT will think i "gyer and gimble in the wabe".
::Copy and pasting GTs build tactics into SEIV.mdb ::
I shouldn't give him this tip:
One use for stored Organics is to trade them for Minerals. Most races I've met will do it every time. It helps if you give them 5% extra in the swap.
Sitting here wondering if those are GTs true play styles.