Re: Height Maps
 

I seem to be getting all the tiles maxed out to hills level 15. Something not working in the code where it should take the lowest point on map and assign that to ground level 0 and adjust all the other hexes to meet that definition.

Re: Height Maps
 

I had made a severe mistake in an unpublished feature where you can decide an arbitrary lowest point value. When assigning the basic ground level the code would check if the override is set and use that or if there isn't one then just using the minimum ground level.

And then I had set a default value for the override. :doh:

Anyway, this should now be fixed and work again properly.

Re: Height Maps
 

If anyone has been building maps with this new program and wants to share them I will be more than happy to add them to the next patch. Just zip them up and post them here.

Don

Re: Height Maps
 

SOMEBODY must have made a map with this program

Anyone ??

Re: Height Maps
 

Mine's not yet finished. (Helsinki suburbs CA 2015)


==========================================
Even one made of varied open countryside would be nice having

SORRY.......I hit EDIT when I meant to hit REPLY--DRG

Re: Height Maps
 

I've run the website stuff and downloaded a few pre-made maps; but then I get a zero on where to go further -- as a blank map with just contours is a bit daunting on filling in.

Suggestion for future improvement/programs: Allow the user to upload an image (200x160 pixels) that then gets applied to a pre-made map.

E.g. GREEN pixels mean forest cover is applied to the proper hex in that place.

Re: Height Maps
 

I've tried a few, but I lost the motivation to finish. The border of NK and Russia will never be finished, it seems.

Re: Height Maps
 

Zoom in the map and you get the roads and terrain features such as forests. It's OpenStreetMap data and might not cover the whole earth. Still it requires you to fill the hexes according to your vision.

Still need to write the user manual and best practices...

Re: Height Maps
 

Don't give up, I think it's a great innovation, I just have my own issues to deal with ATM otherwise I'd be all over this

Don

Re: Height Maps
 

I just posted a scenario with a base map I generated using the program. I'm still learning how to use this program, as well as interpret the heights generated with terrain features from satellite views. Counting hexes is difficult, and sometimes perplexing in establishing roadways and buildings.

But, it's a far better system than trying to do terrain manually and cuts the time involved quite a bit.

I chose a location in the Australian outback (Cunnamulla)due to the limited waterways. I'm working on another location on the east coast, but when there's waterways, it involves a lot of hex number counting to get it right (which I haven't yet).

I don't have a photo of the area I used but I am attaching a copy of the map. Google earth Cunnamulla Austrailia (Queensland) and move east of the town (east of the race track). You'll see the area that's depicted on the WINMBT map.

Tom

Re: Height Maps
 

Every (x,y) position where x and y are divisible by 4 will be displayed when you zoom in far enough. That is to help you counting the locations.

Maybe there should be 3-level option for that, every hex with numbers, every 16th hex (as currently) or completely off. Or some hovering tooltip when the mouse cursor is held on top of the hex.

Any ideas appreciated for improvement.

My approach is to start with the fresh downloaded map and to add major roads first. Then I'll start drawing lesser roads and fill areas captured inside the roads and finishing them one by one until the whole map is ready. And I'll adjust the hex heights if necessary to better suit the feel of the terrain, for example if the road goes up and down when in reality it's going on the same level around a hill.

Re: Height Maps
 

This feature is now improved:

if the terrain contains height differences more than 150 meters they are proportionally mapped from 0 to 150 meter range. Your downloaded map should now be better suited for map building.

Re: Height Maps
 

Aaaaand finally, here's at least some kind of user manual. Enjoy!

https://github.com/tvenhola/SPMBT-ma...ster/MANUAL.md

Re: Height Maps
 

How does one "choose clear keeping the current contours"?

Re: Height Maps
 

That's just my memory trying to think what that tooltip said.

Choose the "Add clear terrain to hex following the contours of the existing map [C]". So when you first fire up the map editor, you can press N, C, 6, type 255 (and press Enter) and finally press L

OR

Click the blue triangle, green square on top left, "fill range" button above the blue triangle, type 255 and press enter, click "fill" button next to the "fill range" button.

This should give you the nice hills and slopes of the terrain.

Re: Height Maps
 

I have a question and I appologize if this has been asked prior.

I've been using the maptool in this thread (http://www.venhola.com/maps/)
and have been very impressed with the ease of obtaining realistic map heights for real world locations.

However, it's driving me crazy trying to emplace streams and lakes which occur on heights above "0" elevation. Which I know is obvious to members of the forum, you can place streams on "10" elevations but they move to "0". In game design, this may not be an issue unless you try to put streams or lakes on higher than "10" levels. The drop is simply to drastic and you have to greatly modify the map heights generated by the tool.

My computer programing days have long past and I surely don't have the expertise to critique or advise on the problem. Is there anyway to allow streams or lakes in higher elevations. Streams progress downstream as well as lakes can be on any elevation. It would be great to be able to emplace these terrain features onto the elevations produced through the map tool.

In a wish list of improvements to the game mechanics, this would have to be my highest wish.

Anyone have any answers?

Tom Garlock

Re: Height Maps
 

All terrain associated with water including marshes always creates a hex at a height just below zero, I have discovered no way round it.

Pavement also seems to lower hills by half a level.
Placed on level 3 it normally becomes a level 2.5 hex as an example.

Re: Height Maps
 

All water terrain is level -1 and deeper. That has always been the way, its a design feature of the basic terrain code.

Re: Height Maps
 

I personally have just placed the lakes where they happen to be. In some cases, it's in higher terrain and the shores become steep, but I just took it as a limitation of the game engine. Thinking over this last weekend I have couple of proposed solutions for the changes I could make for the map producing code. I'd appreciate any input from the end users:

1. Forcing the zero level: In the map tool there would be an option list for the download map section where you could arbitrarily set the ground level 0 to any metric height you wish. That means, if you have a lake that's 12 meters above sea level you could force "12 meters" to be the zero ground level and anything below that would be zero. Pros: You get your lakes to proper height. Cons: you lose terrain information below that level. Not good for mountains.
2. Adding an option to tilt the terrain: You could set the ground tilt so that the lake (or rivers) would be near correct by setting three points on the map to be on certain height level. That would create a slanted height map so that most of the lake or river is on correct terrain height. Pros: You get most of your lakes to correct height. Cons: the terrain height is sloped and not absolute but rather relative to nearby environment and slopes appear where they would not. Tedious to implement.

The backend code already has the ground level setting code (which was the source of the bug mentioned in this thread earlier) but the frontend currently has not means to set it or to signal it to the backend.

Also, if anyone wants to participate in coding this web app you're welcome.

Re: Height Maps
 

I don't think you need to bother. If that is the way the game engine likes it then we just have to live with it. Otherwise it defeats the object of developing a tool to render height properly.

I do think something should be done about pavements etc though. I never understood why that was the case and I always found it rather arbitrary.

Re: Height Maps
 

I'm bit stuck with my map. I've used the tool and have a perfect heighmap. But whenever I try to place certain terrain to a hex the height of the hex will change as follows:

- if placing clear terrain and height was 0 it will be 5
- if placing trees and height was 0 it will be 0
- if placing pavement and height was 0 it will be 5
- if placing paved road and height was 0 it will be 0

- if placing clear terrain and height was 10 it will be 11
- if placing trees and height was 10 it will be 10
- if placing pavement and height was 10 it will be 5
- if placing paved road and height was 10 will be 10

In conclusion - placing almost anything besides trees or road ruins the height.

I've attached the heightmap so you can see yourself.

What can be done about that ?

Re: Height Maps
 

First things first: whenever you have downloaded a map, open it up in map editor, click fill range, write 255, choose "clear map following the contour" (the other clear terrain - you need to click blue triangle once - in same screen as railways etc.) and then click "fill."

That way you have the hills and slopes properly. The map and game engine don't follow the precise heights that much so it's only close to the actual height. And natural formations don't make that hex grid, either.

Re: Height Maps
 

Here, attached are the loops you must jump thru:
1) set fill range to 255
2) go to correct tool page and select the clear that keeps the height info
3) click fill button (no picture of this)
4) result.

Included in attachments are pictures of 1, 2 and 4 - and a resulting map I got from your map attachment.

Re: Height Maps
 

That's page 2 of the editor ( page 2 is the page the fill range button is NOT on ).......the page one clear gives you ground level grass, Page 2 clear follows the contours and on maps like this you won't know where the contours are until you flood the map with page 2 clear ( grass )

..and "fill range" could be any large number..... I usually type in 500

Don

Re: Height Maps
 

Thanks guys, I'll try again. I've did the step with fill & clear, but apparently not properly (used probably wrong "clear").

Re: Height Maps
 

when you place your cursour over each terrain type in the editor the explanation that shows in the upper left changes.


For page one clear it reads..........

Clear All Terrain From Hex - Add Level Terrain [C]

page 2 clear reads........

Add clear terrain to hex following the contours of the existing map [C]

pressing C will give you clear grass in both pages but you get the correct effect depending on the page you are in

Don

Re: Height Maps
 

Learn something new everyday! :up:

Great for building winter maps!




Just for fun I'm going to try the Link to this map grid function and see if I open it on my spare computer:

http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php?...63476562&rot=0

Re: Height Maps
 

If you want to try, you can rotate the map either by
1) entering the degrees to the url: http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php?...3476562&rot=45
2) Using alt+shift+mouse drag and then clicking the crosshair symbol (top right)

Re: Height Maps
 

Sweet - just compleated a rotated map of Villiers-Fossard, near St Lo, France. :up:


(disregard link below, unrelated)

http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php?...67480469&rot=0

Re: Height Maps
 

Yes but it generates an interesting map:)

Re: Height Maps
 

hehe... :ham:

I'm using two computers to speed up the map making process further, game on one, map page on the other.


http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php?...28967285&rot=0

Re: Height Maps
 

This is exactly why I have two monitors!

Re: Height Maps
 

FYI I will be happy to add any maps made that used this program to create the basic terrain to the next patch

Re: Height Maps
 

Tuomas

I've had more time to use the program of late testing work that we are doing to help make "skinning" these maps ( and ours ) a bit less time consuming and after generating a map of the area around Villers-Bocage where the battle was fought it was clear that the contours are being overly exaggerated. They may be perfectly spot on but when translated to a game map things seem a "bit" out.

I really like this program, I really like what it can bring to map making for this game but I'm thinking it's putting at least twice as may contours in than it should to make a game usable map.

Thanks to Google you can "drive" Wittmann's route and it's not quite the grand canyon(ish) experience the map the program delivers now would suggest
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1485722491

what I propose, if possible. is a control for the number of individual height contours that are produced or at least halving the number produced now. I do appreciate the effort you put into this but I think it needs a wee tweak.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1485724936

I realise some of the exaggeration can be manually corrected but does anyone else ( maybe it's just me......) think these tend be a bit exaggerated for game purposes? The circled area is the big problem as it drops into a steam and that's the main area of exaggeration for me

Edit......I will say though.... I generated a map of the area around where I live and it looks just about perfect so maybe its just a case of watching what's generated and if it seems wrong--- fix it manually?

Has anyone else noticed anything like this ??

Don

Re: Height Maps
 

Don,

I've noticed the same issue. In some instances, the terrain does seem to include too many elevation contours. Streams are problematic, but I also seem that to be a reflection of the SP's software's programming.

I keep most of these maps "as is". However, I often have to rework the contours manually to blend the intrinsic terrain into a playable terrain for a scenario.

A minor issue for the most part. However, It would be great if the program could be adjusted to adapt to these issues.

Tom

Re: Height Maps
 

I'll check on that. In some cases the data we get from Google may be a bit off or there's some missing values that somewhere on the line get interpreted as "0.0" meters and a huge crater appears on map.

I'm thinking about creating a business account and speeding up the api we get in exchange for a couple of bucks. Then I'll have some time to invest for finding missing value errors and such and returning some information back to the user with the downloaded map. Now all the logs are out of sight for the end user.

Re: Height Maps
 

As I said. I generated a map of the area around where I live and it was near perfect AND that includes a river but I know contours can be misread by map making software. Before I could build a house on my property I had to have it surveyed because the county had most of it shown as floodplain...but it's not......not even close but one section of the river nearby had steep banks that the original map makers interpreted incorrectly which affected all the contours around it and indicated my property was about 40 ft lower than it actually is.

So...... looking at the Villers map the problem is much the same plus as was pointed out the way SP creates elevations can be deceiving ....couple the two together in just the wrong way and you get a steep-sided canyon where there isn't one so thinking more now that this is something that has to be evaluated by a map maker on an individual basis and adjusted as necessary and not taken as holy writ. Once I filled in the questionable section it seemed much more "normal" looking

Re: Height Maps
 

Thinking that you want to hear input about this program...
I have used it to make 4 maps. Two are complete to the point that I am running battles on them to test. the other two are still incomplete.
3 are of of an island. 1 is an inland area of California.
The island maps generated in Winspmbt with no detection of the coastline from the water. I zoomed in to the venhola program till the hexgrid was readable and took screenshots to cover the entire area. I then took the screenshots into photoshop to crop and print them out. I then used them to place water and outline the coast.
Since water is -1 or -3 in game elevations this established the immediate inland area at about a 0 level. The first generated elevations (10) corresponded to real life elevations of 100 feet and were very accurately placed.
Apparently the program (venhola) does not translate water at a negative but at the lowest land elevation (height 0). So it could be that if you have a river in terrain at level 1 elevation (height 10) venhola will drop the water to height 0, not a big difference in Winsp. But if the river is in 3 level elevation (height 30) the real river should be level 2 but venhola will drop it to level 0, making a canyon effect.

Re: Height Maps
 

You could have found the problem, the game always generates water at the same level, always uses level 0 tile.

Re: Height Maps
 

I would very much encourage and welcome wholeheartedly a map group, guys specialize in making maps and sharing their findings in a way that even I may one day understand.

More even, a map group as a resource where a map challenged maker as myself could submit requests for a map to the map group, with map credits included in the final scenario product.

Map making is such an illusive endeavor for me.

=====

Re: Height Maps
 

I started by making small maps of places I knew. Make a small 20x20 of your neighborhood, places you have gone on vacation... etc. It helps to learn how to think of an area as a 'Hex' and how you will only be able to show a limited amount of features. Every detail is real life, the important 'feel' details is what makes a map.

Re: Height Maps
 

Thanks.I may give your suggestion a try.

=====

Re: Height Maps
 

Looks like this is partially a bug and partially a data issue: In some cases if the max height difference is just correct, the handler might get an overflow (because the check was $height > HEIGHT_LIMIT, so no equality included in comparison) and instead of having level 15 in place a level 0 ground is created. I'm still inspecting this.

Re: Height Maps
 

For those of you who may not visit the winSPWW2 forum, this thread shows a Venhola generated map used with the new terrain and terrain laying features found in the CD/extended 2017 version of both games

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=51523

The map itself is in post 17

Re: Height Maps
 

A new version is out, in the user interface you can now specify how many meters one level is (default = 10 meters or 30 feet). Additionally, the height adjustment code was changed with this new functionality.

If the height variation is too high for the meters/level setting then the map generation overwrites that. Later the clipping limits (such as "base level is 150 m of altitude in real world, level 15 is 350 m) might be arbitrarily set. I'm also planning a satellite view map tiles so the end user can see what the terrain looks from above. Useful especially in cases where the open street map data is rather coarse.

Re: Height Maps
 

Very Nice ! I'm taking it for a spin now. Thanks !

What's nice about this is you can leave the area in the same place and use stock 10, then use for example.....15 then save them both and compare and then decide what suits the situation the best. I'm trying that now with Goldap as I'm very familiar with it and there is a noticeable difference in the map between stock 10 and 15. Later today I will see what effect that has on the area around Villers-Bocage and if changes the issues I had with the way it was generated

This really is an exceptional game tool you have created. Thanks again

:up::up:

Don

Re: Height Maps
 

For those few interested in map making the attached RAR contains Three maps of the exact same area around Villers-Bocage with contours at stock 10, then 15 and then 20... They fill map slots 994-995-996....use for comparison purposes

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1489078387

......and IF we continue with this there WILL be a "last page" button added to the custom editor!

Re: Height Maps
 

Are you saying you will incorporate DMNTs work into the game.
Due to one thing or another I only recently started playing with this.
Its wonderful generates a max size map in 15 seconds or so, trying to create something realistic at this size took dedication beforehand, as in weeks with the time I had to spend on it.
I cant recommend this app strongly enough, try generating a map around a place you have lived or know well then prepare to defend your property.

Re: Height Maps
 

Impossible as it requires off-site online systems but the new splatter feature was designed with working with it in mind. I would have included a link in the game guide but I didn't want it swamped

Re: Height Maps
 

[quote=Imp;837702]I had had one and am in the middle of a second game playing on the Goldap map and both have been well above average on the enjoyment scale. It's good to use a map you built yourself