Re: What happens in 2025?
 

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/p...sized_6484.jpg

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

And on the subject of drones/jammers/etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaWV...ist=WL&index=7
48:53

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

The russians are making makeshift RF shields using workshop materials to match commercially available anti-interference shields for GPS receivers:

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Sad32feeb...k-Blue-Red.jpg

The idea is that it blocks signals coming from below the drone (likely to be jamming/interference) but the top (aka GPS signals) are clear.

Anyway. Some more drone stuff dropped -- we've got clear videos/pics of the russian minelaying UGVs

https://twitter.com/TheDeadDistrict/...05538697007109

https://twitter.com/sambendett/statu...61745172328769

https://twitter.com/sambendett/statu...27667624198411

https://twitter.com/sambendett/statu...71031953379470

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Another issue for 2025 and onwards is that we're seeing datalinks proliferate to the ground user.

One of the big reasons Ukraine's offensive slowed down was because of the KA-52 Black Shark fleet; specifically the newer model -- Ka-52M which has the LMUR (ЛМУР -- Легкая многоцелевая управляемая ракета) Legkaya Mnogotselevaya Upravlyayemaya Raketa, lit. 'Light Multipurpose Guided Rocket'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMUR

The LMUR is a big boy -- 100 kg and a 25 kg warhead (versus Hellfire's 50 kg and 9 kg warhead); but what makes it so dangerous is that it's the first real "digital/datalinked" weapon the Russians have and it has an extremely long range of 14.5 km.

LMUR has two modes:

Mode 1: The target is marked by the operator before launch, and the carrier helicopter can turn away directly after the missile launch -- essentially "fire and forget" Hellfire logic.

But what's new is Mode 2.

Mode 2: The missile is launched by the Ka-52M without on-board target lock. The LMUR flies towards a point selected by the operator; with GPS guidance and transmits what it's seeker sees back to the launching platform. The operator can then look at what the LMUR sees and select a target (or change it) while the missile is flying towards it.

LMUR is the only Russian ATGM capable of this -- and this Mode 2 is the only one in which it reaches the 14.5 km range.

In Ukraine, the Russians have used UAS Drones to spot enemy targets, with the target location/information being passed on to nearby Ka-52Ms who launch their LMURs into the blue (for them). This is extremely effective, because the Ka-52M can destroy targets without exposing themselves personally to Ukranian air defenses and LMUR's 14+ km range means they can stay out of range of a large portion of Ukranian air defenses.

Ukraine now has received an ATGM that operates upon the same "datalink" principles:

https://www.armyrecognition.com/defe...o_ukraine.html

Akeron MP operates much like LMUR -- Mode 1 (Fire & Forget) or Mode 2 (Post-Launch Targeting) -- so while an individual Akeron ATGM operator may not be able to see a target; he can be told via other methods that there's a target, and launch into the blind and target after launch.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

The game already allows this .( more or less)

A recce Drone can be used to call in an NLOS weapon and a NLOS weapon can be carried by a Helo

...... the combination is very effective

What we don't have are Russian NLOS weapons and we don't use NLOS weapons as off-map assets

EDIT

What I can say now is off map NLOS units can be built and they work REALLY WELL with drones and they also Counter Battery very well

As in "Thunderbolts from Thors hammer Mjölnir" well

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Something we need to identify as these weapons evolve is which would be or should be, classed as NLOS as opposed to just being a "normal" ATGM system or should there be one of each....a Mode 1 (Fire & Forget) and a Mode 2 (Post-Launch Targeting).

The issue is unit cost ( and weapon and unit slots ) two ATGM that are the same except one uses a multi charge ATGM weapns class so is a F&F/ Mode 1 unit and the other uses the designated NLOS weapons class--- the NLOS team will be roughly 100 points more expensive --but also more effective-- in the game when coupled with drone control

That said a NLOS unit can target as direct fire and NLOS so one NLOS unit would probably be simpler for everyone

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

LMUR ?......... If that thing doesn't get code named ELMER I will be very surprised
https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1700160055

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

There is info I can use for the game if anyone finds it..... so far I have struck out

1. How many Elmers can an KA-52 carry ?
   
2. If anyone finds a list of NLOS capable ATGM that includes Elmer post it, please.

Thanks

For now, temporary I figure since they weigh twice what the Vikir does it can carry half as many but that's just a WAG

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Looks like the Mi-28 carries 2 on each pylon in the places it is visible in the photos/vids here:
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ile-in-ukraine

"The helicopter carries two LMUR missiles on a twin APU-L rail on the outer pylon under the right wing; the other pylon is empty. It’s not possible to see exactly what’s hanging under the left wing, except for an extra fuel tank. In another video, published a few days earlier by the Ugolok_Sitha channel, a Mi-28NM is seen carrying one LMUR missile under its right wing (on an APU-L twin rail), with a B8V-20 rocket launcher and an additional fuel tank under the left wing."

so 2 for every 6 or 8 Vikhr / Ataka

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

OK. 4 works for me

EDIT

The caption for this is "The APU-L double rail for LMUR missiles."

https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/202...=70&width=1920

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

It's difficult to outrun a drone in the open

https://youtu.be/voshtfn9PRM

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Excerpts from a Twitter thread on the life of a "mobile" drone operator

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/stat...97077518151973

Seems drones on both sides have forced everyone to a semi-nocturnal lifestyle -- i.e. personnel & equipment resupply has to operate under conditions of darkness or very bad weather, lest ubiquitous FPS drones strike.

...

Returning to Lasers:

https://twitter.com/AirPowerNEW1/sta...87727758627172

Back to drones...

We finally know what "Baba Yaga" is -- the mysterious Ukrainian Drone that Russians have been calling that.

https://twitter.com/PStyle0ne1/statu...98616020283439

Essentially, the AFU have been using a large, heavy drone as a "mothership" -- most Drones only have a range of 5 to 8 km, limited by both batteries and line of sight propagation of radio for control signals.

The Baba Yaga drone acts as a mothership, carrying smaller drones deep into the battlefield, before releasing them and then acting as a mobile radio relay at an altitude of 1000m for the released drones. This lets AFU strike 20 to 30 km into the rear with drones that normally could only strike 5 to 8 km.

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

I'm basically turning this thread into a dumping place for "new tactics, new technologies"; rather than a raw OOB thread, because there's a lot of changes going on now.

Konrad Muzyka visited Southern Ukraine with Kofman, [Rob] Lee, and Gady -- it was detailed in this paywalled article:

https://rochanconsulting.substack.co...or-impressions

But some people cut and pasted it. The things of most interest to this thread:

(emphasis mine).

The "detect to destroy" cycle is very short now. :shock:

Re: What happens in 2025?
 

Sounds like "No Mans Land" has been extended exponentially, making the front to big for conventional weapons, making Weapons of Mass Destruction a viable choice again. Sounds deadly, for both soldiers and civilians alike. It's like WWI all over again, but with high technology. Looks like SPWWIII is becoming more viable all the time. I don't know how practical a new title would be though. I say just extend the game beyond 2025, a simple solution for a complicated situation, at least until we figure out a better way to do it.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

GPS guided bombs from standoff distances are playing a larger part:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAF7OtWW...jpg&name=small

Russians are starting to serially produce helicopter UAS:

https://twitter.com/Karmabash/status...96852709884036

https://t.me/mertviorku/3813

https://twitter.com/sambendett/statu...61730954608865

Ukraine is now placing UGVs into service

https://twitter.com/anno1540/status/1698599349859578357

https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/...98508582990192

https://twitter.com/PStyle0ne1/statu...94103283859909

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

More UGVs:

Footage of the Ukranian minelaying UGVs in the front:

https://twitter.com/clashreport/stat...07371711410391
Ukrainian unmanned ground vehicles are being at the front for laying anti-tank mines.

The AFU has deployed to combat the "Ironclad" UGV, which is armed with the Remote weapon station SHABLYA + thermal sight

https://twitter.com/Alfaiomi/status/1745848837732745631
https://twitter.com/infussambas/stat...26258867679650

It seems that AFU is now deploying fixed site versions of the Shablya RWS:

https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/la...use-by-ukraine

Three of the armed and thermal/video image-equipped RWS, built by Lviv robotics manufacturer Roboneers, have been approved for use by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, according to a Ministry of Defence (MOD) statement published late last year.

...

The Ukrainian MOD has approved the ShaBlya remote weapon station for use in conducting reconnaissance, identifying targets on the battlefield, for checkpoint and border defence as well as offensively engaging infantry, lightly armoured combat vehicles, unmanned aerial vehicles, and suppressing opposing firing positions.

The rotating tripod turret system can reportedly be armed with a 7.62mm, M240 or M2 machine gun, automatic grenade launcher and other weapons to engage targets up to 1,200 metres away. It has also previously been shown using a Steamdeck console as its controller and aiming maintained on a video monitor from a distance of 100 metres via direct cable.

Or basically...

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...ORK/img-66.jpg

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

I expect to see a LOT of these, or something similar, in future conflicts.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

This will only increase as the world faces a manpower crunch due to collapsing birthrates.

You'll see this with the increasing penetration of UGVs to do tasks traditionally seen as manpower intensive or very dangerous:

Minelaying
Mineclearing
Scouting
Manning fixed defensive lines

IOW; with a TFR of less than 2.1 in many countries; you can't just scout using the traditional method of "drive down that road until something happens or you get blown up" (aka advance to contact).

Not enough manpower anymore to be like that. So robots will be the ones advancing to contact.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

I know a lot of robots that would be really good at that, especially the ones who call you and can talk. Not only the robots, but also the people that run them too, people who think they are protected by the constitutional right of free speech to program robots to trick the gullible to answer questions that make people feel foolish for answering, then asking the person for money based on how they answer the question. What a disgrace.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

Can this be modeled in the game? Seriously though, this is a story I'd like to hear more about. They have blackmail droids now?

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

Ya, people will do anything for money. These "droids" speak perfect English, they don't even have an accent, they laugh and everything. I hate talking to anybody on the phone nowadays that I don't know. People are getting scammed on the phone all the time.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

Few weeks ago some telemarketer was calling me 5-10 times a day with different offers (i.e. scams) and was using a different "voice" for each. It could/did answer certain basic questions but the general speale was always the same so that sort of gave it away.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

Its a lot simpler to "order" a robot to " Go over to that tree line and draw fire"

That ties in with something I noticed recently in building a little scenario to "simulate" that engagement between the Ukrainian Bradleys and the T-90 attached

In the game it's trickier than RL as the T-90 can detect the Brads no matter which way it's facing

You need to dismount the troops in the Brads to distract i.e "draw fire" OR you use the drone that I added to simulate the one that was used to record the event

Even then, it's tricky getting the Brads into position without losing one

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

Begun these Drone Wars, they have...

https://i.imgur.com/ml2ExxK.png
UGV used by Russian forces to deliver ammo in sights of Ukrainian FPV drone.

Also, the happiest dog and his new drone friend....

https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/...43593367478592
(Testing of a new AFU Ground Combat Drone armed with RPK)

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/st...81037821919526

Ukrainian EW and drone specialist Serhii Flash estimates the effectiveness of Ukrainian FPVs to be around 30%, highly dependent on the unit.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

The famous Bradley that mogged that T-90 has a drone jammer on the turret.

https://twitter.com/TheDeadDistrict/...15646653948411

Apparently the average range of this type of jammer that AFU is using widely is 40 to 80 meters.

It doesn't stop drones from hovering 200-400 meters away and taking video of you with zoom lens; but it does mitigate a little bit of the suicide FPV drone threat...

...with one caveat...

...you've got to be moving. A jamming range of 40-50m means that if you're stationary; even if you jam a suicide FPV drone in it's attack dive, the ballistics of the drone will mean that it has a good chance of hitting you.

Rough figures...

Objects in free fall drop about 25 m/sec.

Average height of a 10-story building is about 30-35m.

A FPV UAV in power dive takes maybe 1 to 1.2 seconds to hit the target.

Bradleys are 6.55m long...figure an average speed of 7 m/sec so that a Bradley can clear it's own length through the aim point for the FPV UAV operator.

That's roughly 25 km/hr (or 15.6 mph).

Essentially, from the math above; if you have a EW Jammer...movement is life.

EDIT: I just realized that Drones themselves are causing combined arms. They force units to be mobile to avoid drone attack runs; which in turn makes the units visible and targets for other weapons systems on the battlefield.

EDIT II -- and of course someone pointed out that the NEXT generation of FPV kamikaze drones coming online will have machine recognition and AI tracking (currently available in larger stuff like Lancets); so they'd be able to track through jamming; unlike a remotely human operated UAV using a datalink.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

"Slightly" off topic but it's not worth making a new thread

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/01/22/7438289/
https://i.imgur.com/sy8Vysy.png

A the bottom of the map are given the distance of the Russian advances

500m x 700 m = 10 game hexes by 14 game hexes

450m x 140 m = 9 hexes by 3 ( rounded )

150m = 3 game hexes

They are advances but.......

https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...HmJ0=w488-h640

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

The more I see from Ukraine the more I'm reminded of WWI.

Minus:
Gas
Modern counter-batter makes prolonged artillery pounding a non-issue.
Modern AA makes air strikes VERY difficult.
Suicide drones make even mortars much less of a problem.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

To paraphrase and slightly adjust a quote widely attributed to Stalin....

" in a war of attrition, quantity has a quality all it's own"



Ukraine Population (July 2021 est.) 43,745,640
Russia Population (July 2021 est.) 142,320,790

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

OK, this is a slight detour from SPCAMO games, but I think it's worthy to tell in some detail, if nothing else but to get the word out so that people are less likely to fall for scams.

Okay.

AI blackmail / Whitemail is a variant of the old "bad news" scam:

You get a message or phone call in the middle of the night saying that your son/daughter has been in a car accident / been arrested / whatever; and that they need money (which of course is gonna be gift cards).

What makes AI Black/Whitemail so much more dangerous is that AI is advanced enough to "fake a voice" if given a sufficiently long speech sample -- maybe 20 seconds of you talking might be enough for them to make an AI to fake your voice with 85% accuracy.

So now, instead of a super sketchy text message saying that your son has been in an accident -- it literally sounds like your son/daughter is calling you -- maybe from jail; maybe from the hospital, doesn't matter.

AI voice algorithms have also given new life to the "indian call center scam" -- i.e. you get a call from "Microsoft Tech Support" saying that they've detected a virus on your computer; and if you would do the needful, they can fix it for you (which entails you setting up a remote connection to their PC, allowing them to steal everything of note on your hard drive).

The Indian Call Center Scam has been slowly dying out as people now refuse to answer any calls which have Indian accents.

Enter real time voice AI synthesization -- now they don't sound like Pradvisha from Delhi, but John from Peoria.

It's not 100% though; because of the limited english skills of a lot of these call center scammers; they mangle the verbs and syntax of english, so even though they now sound like Bob from Peoria, they are asking you to do the needful.

In a military context; there's a lot you could do with AI voice/visual synthesization (Deep Fakes). For example, you could fake the voice and video of a commanding officer and tell his troops to surrender; or insert fake orders into the command stream -- even if they're countermanded by real orders in the secure encrypted text communications system, it's still uncertainity that slows down the speed of execution of orders if you have to verify each one.

There's also some nastiness; like possibly using AI/Video deepfakes to break POWs to make them give you information; a variant of the "we have captured your children. You will give us your bank account information or we do bad things to them -- and then cut to AI generated audio/video of your children begging for their lives -- a "virtual kidnapping"

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/29/us/ai...cec/index.html

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

CHATGPT! ..well maybe not. :). hopefully the dedicated will remain.

we all want a WinSPMBT with ai Drones connected to Amazon.com and remote MBT's with alien armor alloys.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

New stuff just dropped, babe:

https://twitter.com/markito0171/stat...68549583311286
https://twitter.com/SenftPatrick/sta...20941415498026

Ukrainian military used a UGV and drove it 4 km (2.5 miles) behind enemy lines to deliver a KZ-4 demolition charge to drop a bridge:

https://twitter.com/SenftPatrick/sta...20946515706253

And elsewhere, you have further use of UGVs to deploy TM-62 mines

https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/...96740574658839
https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/...69691993366970

But what's new is that both sides apparently now are using UAVs to deploy mines from the air silently:

https://twitter.com/Jamie04381095/st...94077756211484

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

FORTUNATELY it is possible to hit the mute button for this vid..... you WILL want to before the earworm burrows too deep!

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

I like the idea of Future MBT type of third Steel Panthers game. As in, keeping the WinSPMBT as it is with no new modern add ons, and create an entire new game to be updated (for example starting at date 2025).

That would make things simpler, and possibly even preserve the old WinSPMBT from any possible malfunctioning it can have because of new added features, and only add the new features to entirely new platform, updating it as the time goes on (by whoever is up for that task).

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

I like it! As it would give Shrapnel the excuse to do all the little things that they have been saying can't done without having to create a whole new game. I have my doubts that it would work as described though. I think they would accidentally forget to include some of the "old" features of the current system, or forget to include some obscure feature that not many people use, but in reality the feature is very important to some players, just not used by the majority of players.

If they made a whole new game, it would give them a reason to raise the system requirements without ruining the current version. In my opinion that would be an outstanding consequence, as that would mean the graphics and other features would be state of the art!

Really, the only thing I see that's missing are mainly walls, tunnels, and some other obscure types of terrain, and possibly the upgrade of graphics too, but to tell you the truth, I think the current version has the best "top down" graphics on the market. The only games I see that has better graphics are real time games, and if Steel Panthers became a real time game, I think the game would change so much, it would become a different game, as a result, action scenes would become more important than game play.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

Wanted to post something like that myself. Personally I would fully support a third game like "WinSP2k" or similar.

I would let it start in the year 2000 and have an overlap of the database with WinSPMBT. The new game could have (if possible from the code) new features not available in the older engines to make all this UAV centric warfare possible.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/...62908430008813

More drones proliferating, this one is Ukranian

Combined effects warhead for FPV drones

https://twitter.com/GrandpaRoy2/stat...22462576713729

Another thing to note is that when FPVs are used; they're used en masse -- i.e. as of late 2023 / early 2024, instead of lone or triplet FPV attacks, we're seeing swarming attacks; many of them going after a single target.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

Remember that UGV I posted about a few pages back carrying a demolition charge to blow a bridge some 4 km from the operator?

We've gotten the scaled down version

https://twitter.com/War_Gang_/status...67779889119274

Translated from the Polish

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

More evolution!

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/s...09659927162966

Ukraine is now using WWII bomber escort solutions for drones -- the slower, bigger "Baba Yaga" carrying heavy munitions is escorted by swarms of smaller FPV drones.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

Tactics on the battlefield always evolve or in this case, are rediscovered. It is more noticeable with drones because its' use is evolving so quickly

They discovered quickly in WW1 that the light bombers needed fighter support and the Ukrainians have simply applied that lesson to the new tech

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

Speaking of evolution; right now, the gangs in Haiti are using drones in a method similar to Hamas during the first few days of the Gaza War; i.e. for recon and to drop grenades onto the Haitian police.

Moving off Haiti and onto Israel v Hamas in Gaza...

Apparently one of the reasons we haven't seen a lot of drone footage from Gaza of Hamas v. Israel since the first few weeks of this (current) war is because the IDF brought up a lot of EW equipment once they came under attack from drones and managed to achieve a modicum of electronic warfare superiority.

Moving off drones...

https://breakingdefense.com/2024/03/...rmy-no-2-says/

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

Not sure is it appropriate to comment on this thread on this subject. But somehow i see Energy Weapons, especially Laser weapons of something that might not stand the test of time. There might be a timeframe they excell, but that timeframe might stay short as others adapt to their use.

It can be as easy, than just coat the missile with a material, that either absorbs or mirrors the beam away in some way.

For example, if you shoot Laser beam to mirror, what happens ?


So the production of Laser Weapons, can be very expensive and time consuming. When the counter can be very cheap, easy and simple. So in the end, can very much be, that it is not worth it.

But the Air Burst munition for example, that use kinetic projectiles that can track the missile and change direction in the air, exploding to hundreds of pellets before hitting the target, even one pellet enough to possible neutralize the target. Can be shot on rapid fire rates like 300 rounds per minute on 40-50mm platform and something like 120 rounds a minute with 76mm platform, and 90 rounds a minute with 127mm platform or the likes. Which can become the Mainstay for any Infantry Fighting Vehicle (An Airburst fully automated CIWS turret that tracks and destroys missiles, drones, loitering munitions automatically offering close range air defence to troops, artillery, supply and so).

The smaller calibers can even be installed to a tank. For example, a future thank contains 2 x 25mm CIWS turrets with AirBurst munition in both sides of turret. And for why not, also can transport infantry similar than IFV (like Merkava can) and function as Artillery shooting guided munitions.

No matter what kind of missiles, drones or loitering munitions you develop in the future, the AirBurst munition is always relevant against them because it uses Kinetic Energy to destroy the target.

This is the route Italy Army have chosen. They go the Autocannon route, and are heavily invested in AirBurst type of munitions. You can see this in their Navy too. When others install few turrets in their Ships, Italy instals 4 in each ship (3 in front, and one in back so, that at certain angle, they can all fire at same direction). The largest of these can be used to shoot guided munitions further away than 120 kilometers. So especially in that Mediterranean area, those turrets have a high threat range to ships too, can be used to Shore Bombardment instead of missiles, and can be used to effectically neutralize any missile Threats to the ships. The munition is also way cheaper to produce than missiles, and you can take more of them on the ship than missiles. Lets say opposing ship have 80 missiles, they can very well have 8 000 munitions available against them and they are effective on neutralizing any missile threats, as they track the missile, and change course in the air, exploding on front of target to smaller pellets on rapid fire rate. It is a new development, the AirBurst (OTO Melara) and Vulcano rounds are new. Germany uses the similar type of munitions, but they emphasis on smaller caliber (35mm Millenium Gun) combined with Missile Defence (IRIS-T) - SkyGuard.


So for example. What can a tank like i described achieve ?

It can support the troops with Guided Artillery fire. It can protect itself and the troops with AirBurst CIWS munitions from any aerial threats. It can transport the troops. So if needed, you could only produce them and they can do everything you need (Air Defence, Artillery Support and Transporting the Troops). You can only produce one platforms, and just spam it.

If you want higher caliber air defence, you can make dedicated 76mm Air Burst Autocannon unit, that can be operated by 2 persons. And when parked somewhere on standby (automated), the crew can get out and do not even need to be within the vehicle, as it is fully automated. Italy already uses this approach, and it is operational.


For these reasons. I would not invest on Laser equipment. I would invest on Autocannons. How i see things (and i suppose, how Italy sees it). Automated Autocannons is the platform for the future, and the development of Seek and Destroy algorithm for the Guided Artillery and Autocannon munitions in Low and Mid Range. That is the most Cost Effective way.

You do not need Drones or Loitering Munitions, if you have Guided Munitions. Guided Munitions are always superior to Drones, and you only use Drones because you are out of Guided Munitons, or do not have the option to acquire them. If you could choose as a commander, you would of course always choose a Guided Munition or Missile over Loitering Muniton or Drone because their properties are superior.

The Seek and Destroy Algorithm: can even be very simple. It only need to function Offline (as in high EW environment) and be able to confirm than target, seek and destroy (independently offline after the launch).

It is also a matter of Logistics. You need less storage space and less Maintenance. When you have less platforms with Motors, less Missiles (platforms with Motors) and so on.

Having stored enough Guided Rounds. Makes you very powerful player in the military scene. And they will be relevant now and forever. This will never change. (if they are Offline Guided).

(And if needed, can possibly be coated against Laser Weapons).


These Properties:

1. Is able to Seek and Destroy targets independently without Outside Guidance.

2. Is coated against Laser Weapons.

Then what you do, when opponent pummels endlessly with this kind of munition and you invested on Laser Defence, which is not functional against them. And your EW does nothing ?

And then when you launch your small supply of expensive Missiles to them, they get destroyed by high volume of Guided Air Burst Munitions which is a mainstay for even the most basic of troops.


It sounds very fancy and futuristic to speak of High Tech Laser Weapons and Autonomous Platforms. But in the end can very much be, that they achieve nothing and the direct approach is way more Efficient.

The only AI you really need is Seek and Destroy Algorithm.


The Rail Gun development i see as something that would be relevant. But the problem for it consuming too much energy to be practical may never be fixed, and there might never be new energy sources. The Cold Fusion probably, consumes more energy than produces because the laws of physics dictate so meaning, that most likely it can never be used as an Energy Source.

I also feel like, that certain Thresholds have been achieved in Technology Development on certain areas. That cannot be broken. The Laws of Physics dictate so, and the challenge is to fine tune the existing techniques rather than, find new ones as very possibly (in some cases), the new techniques are not there if the Laws of Physics cannot be altered.

Foe example, the technique for CIWS was originally introduced in the 70's (if i remember right) trough Phalanx CIWS, and stays relative for a long time to come. The challenge have been to fine tune it. But include modern Air Burst munition to the original Phalanx CIWS code, and it will be very effective even without changing the direction of the munitions in the air, what the current algorithm and development can achieve.

Still, even the oldest Phalanx CIWS have not outdated yet, and probably never will.

Of course the original Phalanx CIWS could not use the Air Burst munition without Update. But the Update for it would probably be very minor. The same with the guided Air Burst. It is probably not a major update for the Program, but a major update for the Ammunition it uses.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

They give a specific power figure in the above article (4 kW/cm2) and a specific penetration figure at 10 km (quarter inch steel plate = 6.35mm)

The 122 mm OF-462 artillery shell has a wall thickness of about 17mm

LINK to drawing

60 to 80mm mortars have a wall thickness of about 12mm

81mm mortar drawing

60mm mortar drawing

A large commercial aircraft like the 747/Airbus/etc has about 2 to 4 mm skin thickness in aluminum; while ballistic missiles differ -- Titan II ICBM had a maximum skin thickness of 6~mm; while the Titan III Space Launch Vehicle went up to 12~mm to support heavier payloads on top.

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

A very interesting article about the way drones shape the battlefield in Ukraine:

https://warontherocks.com/2024/03/dr...onary-fashion/

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

Babe, new drone specialized type just dropped! :hurt:

Russians have started to deploy FPS and battlefield UAS using fiber optics guidance

https://twitter.com/clashreport/stat...36910943613005

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

The only way to simulate that in the game is to give a drone a very high EW value.

That would be better suited to scenario work as I doubt these are going to become really common

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

Russia is now using semi or powered glide bomb kits.

Basically normal FAB bombs with pop out wings and GPS guidance; and in some cases, a small turbojet to extend range.

It's how they were able to take Avdiivka -- by dropping 100~ of them each day.

This way, they can drop them from 60-70 km away, and stay out of range of Ukrainian SAMs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...orce-avdiivka/

Big difference over the last few months of Russian glide bomb use is that instead of 250 kg bombs as a base... it's now 1500 kg (!!!)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2511360.html

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

Back to lasers:

https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/statu...66050308551008


Bunch of media at that twitter post; but the one most of interest (once I do calculations) is this:

https://i.imgur.com/Sr3qSgB.jpeg

Re: What happens in 2025? / new tactics- new technologies
 

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/...64270247350478

Rather simple; the mines are attached to each other by string, so it requires somewhat level ground, and it results in a very obvious pattern. More of a "deny ground" tactic that wastes the enemy's time by forcing them to dismount and demine.