Re: Disturbing Facts
 

Something I don't get is that an angency like the FBI, for example, could spare a few agents to just surf the net, find warez sites, make a few calls, and shut them down.

I do it to Bandwidth theives when they do it.

Also, a little heads up. I've looked at SE.org's keyword report. 250 hits since March 1 for warez and cracks. That was a low month.

I do know many of them are hosted out of the US, but surely organizations like InterPol can also help out.

EDIT: speeeling errorrrs fyxied.

[ 25 March 2002: Message edited by: Hadrian Aventine ]</p>

Re: Disturbing Facts
 

I'm quite surprised:
My homepage has dropped quite far down on the % of searches for illegal downloads.

It used to be something like 60% "full download" type things. That is down to 1.5%
The more ambiguous "SE4 gold" search is 25%, though.
71% is now actually searches for techs, mods and P&N! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
I'm not sure how I managed 2% of my search engine (google!) hits from "homemade weapons make". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

All out of 400 google hits.

Re: Disturbing Facts
 

*WARNING*: Long-windedness ahead.

I suspect no one's likely to care about my two cents' worth, but I always enjoy expounding on my feelings about IP issues and the problems surrounding them.

Problem 1: No matter what people want to believe, all IP is not equal.

A computer program is a significantly different entity from a short story, which is different from a song, a movie, a poem, a news article, sheet music, etc. The sale of programming IP very rarely, I suspect, has anything to do with performance rights and roalties.

The RIAA would tend to have you believe that all IP is the same and ought to be protected in exactly the same manner. But see my comments on the RIAA later.

Problem 2: So-called "Fair Use" isn't. And the reason it isn't fair is that it's basically a moral issue, rather than a legal one, and as several people have noted, you can't legislate morality.

Is it Fair Use for me to install SE4 on a friend's computer so I can play multiplayer against him? What about just to demonstrate the game to him? Neither of these is legal, but it's tough to determine whether either is moral.

In the same sense, if I write a short story and it's published in (I'm dreaming here, indulge me) Fantasy and Science Fiction, is it Fair Use for a reader of F&SF to copy his magazine to hand the story to a friend? Is it Fair Use to quote significant portions of the story for literary crticism?

Problem 3: Everybody wants a slice of the pie.

The companies that make up the RIAA are probably the largest culprits here. Let's face it: musicians earn something like ten cents out of the $15 you pay for their CD at Best Buy. Sure, if it goes gold, they start to make some money, but more of their income has to be derived from ticket sales to concerts... and even then, they're splitting the proceeds with how many others?

The same sort of thing is true in other industries, though. On that same short story sale to F&SF (indulge my dreaming another moment), I would earn 6 cents a word--call it $300. The magazine has a circulation of around 100k at $3 a copy--$300,000 gross an issue. You do the math.

Programming has actually done all right in this respect. While self-publishing is severely frowned upon in the fiction world (generally considered career suicide), and the RIAA continually looks to defeat music self-publishing, self-publishing of computer programs has exploded with the advent of the internet. Shrapnel is an example of what I might call "coordinated self-publishing"--while Shrapnel may be the publisher of the game, unlike most "publishers", they aren't taking the largest slice of the incoming money.

Problem 4: Piracy is never going away.

This is a simple fact that anyone who deals with IP is going to have to get accustomed to. You can create ridiculously complex copy-protection schemes, and *someone* out there is going to break them.

Personally, I'd rather do what Shrapnel has done: refrain from spending the money on the copy protection, and accept the piracy as a loss to be dealt with... if it is, in fact, a loss. Because it's imposible to track how many pirated copies of SE4 were downloaded simply *because they could be*, played once by some script kiddie who understands FPS but has never played a game of chess in his life, then deleted.

------------

All of these are issue which will likely never be resolved. I'm firmly against piracy, being a small-time creator of IP myself. But all the RIAA's, the Harlan Ellisons, the Tasini decisions, and the copy protection are, in the end, *not going to stop it*.

OK. I'll shut up now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Eric Snyder II
(LazarusLong42)

Re: Disturbing Facts
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Richard:
We don't trasmit anything from your computer, the game automatically tried to phone out to make sure you have a net connection.<hr></blockquote>

So that's why my home system wouldn't run GOLD demo.
Since I do not have internet at home, I installed WIN98 without the Communications package. It's not your typical install.
A real bummer for anyone else in the same fix. Who are they going to call?

--------------------------

UPGRADES HAPPEN!!!

--------------------------

Re: Disturbing Facts
 

Something to think about.

Soon in USA the following situation will occur

1. It will be legal to own a hand gun but illegal to own a portable hard drive.

Think about that.

Also think about the fact that all Americans are guilty of breaking any law with regards to Copy right protection.

Re: Disturbing Facts
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Something to think about.

Soon in USA the following situation will occur

1. It will be legal to own a hand gun but illegal to own a portable hard drive.

Also think about the fact that all Americans are guilty of breaking any law with regards to Copy right protection.<hr></blockquote>

Where do you come up with this interesting assertion and what exactly do you mean by it?

Texfire

Re: Disturbing Facts
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Something to think about.

Soon in USA the following situation will occur

1. It will be legal to own a hand gun but illegal to own a portable hard drive.

Think about that.

<hr></blockquote>

Should read:

1. As with firearms, soon only those who are well-connected will be able to own a portable hard drive.

Both curtailments are cause for concern.

[ 27 March 2002: Message edited by: wr8th ]</p>

Re: Disturbing Facts
 

It is a conflict between defense and offense. History shows that only temporary gains are possible on either side. You gain what seems the perfect defense and then someone has the perfect weapon to break the perfect defense. As others have already said, you can't make something pirate proof, but you can try and educate your citizenry to make the correct and responsible decision. By the same argument though you need to educate your corporate leaders to do the same thing. So far neither side is really doing that and the few that do get crushed between the rock and the hard place.

A few quotes to finish my thoughts off.
_______
Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither security nor liberty.

Benjamin Franklin
_______
In the United States we value security more than freedom.

Hugh Daniels
_______
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

Thomas Jefferson to Archibald Stuart, 1791
_______
Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it.

George Bernard Shaw, Liberty
_______
The antidote for misuse of freedom of speech is more freedom of speech.

Molly Ivans
_______
They came for the communists, and I did not speak up because I wasn't a communist;
They came for the socialists, and I did not speak up because I was not a socialist;
They came for the union leaders, and I did not speak up because I wasn't a union leader;
They came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak up for me.

Martin Niemoller, 1892-1984
_______
We felt the effects of herb were so dangerous that it was better to lie to the american public to save them rather than tell them the truth...

Partnership for a Drug Free America
_______

The Last one is my personal favorite. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Not because I support drug use but due to the feeling of others wanting to protect me from myself by whatever methods available.

It also serves as a reminder that even those with good intentions can walk the path to disaster.

Re: Disturbing Facts
 

I'll add a couple:

"You live and you learn, or you don't live long." - Heinlien

"Liberty is a well armed lamb." - Benjamin Franklin

Re: Disturbing Facts
 

Im glad Richard commented on game sending info back to co. I was a little worried there for a sec. When I got my original se4 gold, I burned a copy to play with. I try not to use original cds for scratchs and things. I did that once, and the original went bad. Had to go by the bLasted thing again. So now I make copies of all my games and use the copies. Its easier for me.

Piracy, is, unfortunately a way of things for gaming. I to wish game companys could develop a way to stop it, but alas, I dont think it is humanly possible at this juncture. Maybe in the future.

Note to Richard.....SE4 gold rocks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Disturbing Facts
 

i admit i priated GTA1 and 2 i later bought GTA 2 (i got them at hte same time) and i don't play GTA1 anymore. I pirated driver b/c hte demo didn't give me a good enought taste of the game to decide. I found out i hated it, uninstalled the pirated copy and never bought it. I got the SE3 demo, wow it was so good i kept playign new games until it stalemated at the tech line or i won. I got he SE4 demo and i bought the game a few weeks later.

Both of the Last two had good demos so i never felt the urge (and Shrapnel and MM are so cool, if i could pirate windows i would b/c i HATE microsoft) to get the whole game to test it out.

And also think that a person who pirates a game and never buys it probably wouldn't ever buy it, so its not really money lost. I let my friend try SE4 (the full Version) and after about a month he purchased the CD to support the company, and he is scrappign together allowance for GOLD.

On the drug use, i condone marijuana use in a safe manner. I mean we consider alcohol and tobacco safe so i can't see why marijuana is so much worse. It's jus the fault of a bunch of politicans with sticks up their @$$'s. hope no one is incredibly offended those are my views, and dont' worry, i gave a speech for Communications on this so i have evidence. Just look at hte dutch for instance, they don't sit around stoned all day (most dont').

Re: Disturbing Facts
 

"could pirate windows i would b/c i HATE microsoft"

I'm not condoning piracy here, but that's a pretty funny statement. Considering that those games you mentioned have copy protection and Windows DOESN'T.

solution for internet piracy: make the game so freaking big no one bothers to download it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Phoenix-D

Re: Disturbing Facts
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> solution for internet piracy: make the game so freaking big no one bothers to download it <hr></blockquote>

Or just put the game on a DVD. By the time DVD burners are common, the game will probably be out of print. I guess the trade-off is that not everyone has a DVD-ROM drive.

Re: Disturbing Facts
 

DVD Can still be pirated: I'm ashamed but I do have some DVD movies ripped and put uder DivX format in my computer... And It's surprising how much ripped DVD movies are out there.

The big file doesnt matter as long as they have some Download Programs or/with Broadband, As download programs allow you to pause when the server is at its worst and allow you to continue at your own pace when no one is looking around.

The Best Hope yet are CD keys, which can be overcome by malicious programs, such as CD key generators or Rip/Fake CD's.

In my opinion, if the programmers can Incorporate some Absolutely Crippling Flaws into the game, hard code it, and make it so that it can only be fixed by giving the registered distributors registered CD keys which then in turn give you a patch that would fix those problems.

Just my two cents...

Re: Disturbing Facts
 

Your weak link is still any user who has the patch.

The only way to get complete control is to have proprietary hardware.
Package the games inside the machine, and make it self-destruct if the case is opened, too. Have it run on batteries, and use a tiny infrared port for input/output.
Lots of self-destruct triggers near that port, since it is a weak point.

Re: Disturbing Facts
 

Yes, proprietary hardware. Put the games on propreitary hardware. And don't sell them for goodness sake. You don't want people having access to them long enough to copy them. You can open up little shops and have these proprietary hardware consoles that people come in and pay a fee to play. Maybe call them "arcades" or something like that.

I don't know, it might work... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Geoschmo

Re: Disturbing Facts
 

Ah, but remember the security guards. Can't let anyone get inside, and you don't want to have to buy new machines when they self-destruct.

Re: Disturbing Facts
 

I worked in one in Ottawa. At the famous Billings Bridge Mall. What a hole.

1990 to 1992.

I had alot of classic games there.