Re: Space Empires 5
 

It wouldn't be micromanagement hell if the game told you what populations could live there. Could have a system level icon for your own population like there is now. Green star means your population can live there comfortably. Red star means not-so-comfortably. When examining the planet, it can show habitability Ratings for each known species. Could make a switch somewhere that changes the system-level icons to be for a population other than your own. More detail doesn't always mean more micro-management http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The coordinates don't need to be taken to extreme numbers of decimals. A simple map having a 130.0x130.0 system would be fine (and still quite an improvement over the current 13x13). Newtonian movement wouldn't be feasible with the grid now used in SEIV, it would be far too choppy. There would still be a "grid" for combat purposes, so ships don't have to be at the exact coordinates for combat, just within a certain block.

Re: Space Empires 5
 

IMHO Phoenix-D is right about the MMH. I don't see why adding lots of variables to the planets will make it any more interesting. It is just more moving around people for the best location.
A script language for the AI would be just neat and variable damage/damage absorption for different types of incoming damage would be cool. Further it would open a great deal of variety to the weapons and it would be much harder to build/find the "perfect" weapon.

Re: Space Empires 5
 

SE5 might have some kind of 3d. As we can see in "Call for Artist" thread Malfador is looking for 3d artists.

A lot of little features could make the game more realistic but they have some problems. Besides micro management they would increase the size of save game files. Already in multiplayer games the files can be pretty big.

Re: Space Empires 5
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think the important part of this idea it the fact that it would allow for one race's terraforming to become another race's environmental catastrophe.

If we had separate variables for gravity, radiation, temperature, and various atmospheric gasses, it wouldn't be any more complicated than it is now.

You'd just build a terraforming facility, and each year it would tweak each variable 1% towards your race's ideal settings.
Add in a small, natural, unterraforming factor, so that planets will return to their natural state if left alone, (and also limiting the terraformer's maximum conditions change as it fights mother nature)

A Rage world with a Terraformer (vaccuum breather machine race) would start reducing the pressure of all the different gas types, shift gravity and temperature to average values, and reduce radiation.
A Terran world with a Terraformer would shift gravity towards 1g, temperature to 25 degrees C, and shift radiation towards the low end, while Increasing oxygen pressure and decreasing all others.
It would all be automatic when you build the facility, just like atmosphere modders now.

Planet Images would change whenever a new gas takes over the top concentration (or when the total pressure drops to a certain value).

Your planets would fall into a few categories:
- Very nice planets, naturally fit for your race.
- Terraformable planets
- Poor worlds that will always require a dome (facility).
- Enemy-held worlds that are very nice.
- Enemy-held worlds that were very nice until they were terraformed by aliens.
- Enemy-held worlds that were marginal before being terraformed even worse by aliens.
- Enemy-held worlds that will never be livable by your race.

Re: Space Empires 5
 

SJ, that is a pretty good idea. With one change it would be nearly perfect. The terraforming facility should of course change the conditions to optimal by default. But there should be also possibility to change conditions to whatever one wants.

[ July 12, 2002, 14:39: Message edited by: Zarix ]

Re: Space Empires 5
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, you would want it to change the conditions to whatever is ideal for the population currently on the planet. If that's not optimal, then you don't want optimal. That's the point.

I have a question though. Not that it matters for game play or anything, and I won't use the "R" word, but how exactly would terraformers change the gravity of the planet? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

Re: Space Empires 5
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I meant that when you build the facility, it starts changing the planet so that the people living there become happy. Then if the player decides that those people are annoying, the player could increase the temperature and suck the air out making some vacuum-packed beef.

Quote:

I have a question though. Not that it matters for game play or anything, and I won't use the "R" word, but how exactly would terraformers change the gravity of the planet?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is quite simple. To decrease the gravity they have to put springs in every shoe on the planet. When increasing it they replace the springs with heavy weights. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Space Empires 5
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh. ROFL! I didn't realize you were going for the "Evil Overlord" kind of thing there. There are more efficent ways of dealing with annoying populations, but I guess the inefficency is where the fun is. The fact that you would go to so much trouble to make their lives miserable shows what a cruel, heartless bastard you can be if you are shown the proper "respect". I LIKE it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

EDIT: Along with these lines, give us the ability to grant independance to a colony. Then you can turn around and glass it the next turn. MUUUHAHAHAHA! You can do the same thing now by gifting it to another race, but the other race has to accept the gift, then you run the risk of them getting upset at you for glassing the colony, and you don't get the satisfaction of the "Skull and Bones" log message telling you that you totally wiped that new empire out. Hehehehe, that would be so fun!

Geo

[ July 12, 2002, 15:28: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: Space Empires 5
 

Geo, genocide is not acceptable in any social circle I am aware of. Evil Overlord or not, you should really try and curb these tendencies toward the mass slaughter of innocents.. after all, the good lord did say that one should turn the other cheek and not do unto others as you would not like done unto yourself and let's face it, you wouldn't be too chuffed to find out you were the target of an evil despotic maniac with a predelection for extreme violence and an appalling tendency to go "MUAAUUAAUAUAUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH"

You probably will be stroking small white persian cats next

Re: Space Empires 5
 

New victory condition for SE5: Hell

To win the game you have to transport at least 10M of each race in the game to a planet and terraform that planet to barely liveable to all those races.

Re: Space Empires 5
 

Ah yes, but when you are the all powerful ruler of all that you survey, whether your predilictions are socially acceptable is of no concern. Societal mores only exsist to assist in keeping the masses in line with the arbitrary wishes of their Emporer. Or did you miss that day in "Despot 101"?

You haven't lived until you have had a quiet candelight dinner with the concubine of your choice sitting on the veranda watching the light show created by millions of rioting Xiati being jettisoned from your transports and reentering the atmposphere. It's fantastic! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Geo

Re: Space Empires 5
 

Micromanagement is supposed to be reduced by computers, not increased. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif If you have micromanagment problems with a 4X game it's not designed properly, and I don't mean that the simulation elements are out of place. More detail is good. It makes the game fun. All we have to do it design the game properly to have the detail without forcing us to work on it constantly. We can have technologies to cope with planet gravity, temperature, radiation, and even atmosphere type, without micromanagement hell. There can be ONE facility type for each and even combined facilities at higher techs, that automatically adjust the planet towards the ideal conditions for the population. Issue the order for the building of the facility or facilities once. Authorize upgrades globally when a new level of technology is discovered. What's the big deal?

I think detailed planetary conditions are essential to a good 4X game and I hope even SE IV will add something besides this moronic 'conditions' variable before it's done. We could have radiation levels, for example.

That and more detailed population abilities, with better retention of those abilities when captured/conquered, would make a huge difference in the fun level of the game. Also, more detail in mass population management. Populations ought to have persistent 'attitudes' towards each other, and your empire as a whole ought to have a defined 'central government' somewhere that can be destroyed or captured. A 'Seat of government' ought to be either a facility or a component so you can be paranoid like the Minbari and keep your government hidden in a ship somewhere. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

More detail in other non-combat aspects of the game would be great, too. Stars ought to have internal dynamics and 'evolve' a little bit over the course of the game. Star conditions ought to affect both planets and stellar harnessing techs. Storms ought to appear and disappear, not just sit there like a type of planet. Comets ought to swing in and back out from their stars. When will comets be implemented, I wonder??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

As far as ship features and combat features, yeah, we desperately need some 'randomness' to damage, and area effect weapons. At the very least we need the option to have collateral damage. It would not be that hard to have a check made on for adjacent ships when a ship blows up and allocation of a little damage. If there is a settable 'percent' for collateral damage in the config files, you can set it to zero if you don't want it.

I've been asking MM to implement different 'levels' of armor most recently. I think he could do it for SE IV if he wanted to. There would be levels of armor 'density' just like there are currently levels of cloaking, and then different levels of armor skipping just like there are levels of sensors. 'Skips Armor 1' would skip normal armor (the default 'titanium' stuff) but not 'Armor 2'. You could have an elaborate system of armor and armor-piercing technology then, with something like 'Neutronium' at the top being impenetrable. (level 9? something like that)

Of course, right now I'd be happy if Emissive Armor worked. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif It still doesn't stop any damag at all if the damage total is over the emissive ating...

[ July 12, 2002, 17:10: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Space Empires 5
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL LOL LOL LOL...

Yep, this is what it's all about. The fantasy of absolute power. And detail creates a better illusion of power. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Space Empires 5
 

Geo, I take back all the nice things I ever said about you, you really are a horrible nasty mean minded person.......

I shall make sure you are first up against the wall when the revolution comes.....

MWAAA HAAHAAHHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Re: Space Empires 5
 

God I love reading this thread.

Okay, long time back someone suggested supplies be divided into two types (much like SE4 divied SE3's construction resource into Minerals, Organics, and Radioactives)

The two types of supplies are energy and ordinance (some military genius on this board gave me that word -- I try to insert it into everyday conversation as often as I can http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Different components use different amouts of each, for example:
engines - lots of energy, a little ordinance

crew and life support - tiny amt of energy, a small amt of ordinance (food, atmosphere,reading lights)

anti proton beams - lots of energy, tiny amt of ordinance

capital ship missile, DUC, PD cannon - tiny amt of enery, lots of ordinance

Solar collectors and ramscoops may restore your energy storage containers, or perhaps advanced engines regenerate supplies when the ship isn't moving, but only advanced technology can create ordinance out of thin air (trek replicators)

So now your big bad missile ship or your inexpensive, yet quite powerful DUC5 are not so useful if you're very far from home -- it will be difficult to carry enough ordinace on-board or in a supply ship in the fleet

Of course, even energy weapons will need your ship to have some storage.

Hey, SE4 is very different from SE3. SE5 should be totally wierd by our current viewpoint. Face it, MM is working on Dungeon Odyssey and bug-fixing/minor code change for SE4. SE5 is probably a couple of years away

[ July 12, 2002, 17:06: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: Space Empires 5
 

Arkcon, that was me that suggested ordinance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Weapon components could have an ordinance storage ability and you would only get ordinance from resupply depots or ships bringing it from resupply depots. No 'build missiles in space with solar energy' stunts! But I think the same thing could be done even more simply. Just have weapons that use actual physical amunition track their own amunition. A missile launcher should have a number that is decremented every time you fire. When it hits zero, no more shots. Now you have to go back to a resupply depot to reload. I think MM could implement that even in SE IV. Now, some people might get angry at not being able to 'move ammunition around' between components of the same type outside of combat, and implementing that might be difficult. But other than that one issue I think it would be fairly simple to do.

Note that I suggested some weapons might use both energy and ordinance, like torpedos. In Star Fleet Battles, at least, you do 'charge' a torpedo. But most would be one or the other.

[ July 12, 2002, 17:24: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Space Empires 5
 

I kind of like this energy/ordinance idea. It adds some detail, without too much detail. Running out of ordinance has obvious implications as far as missles and projectile weapons. What would be the implications for the ship as a whole if it used up all it's ordinance and still had energy? Would it still be able to move, just not shoot, except for energy weapons? You have emgines and energy weapons using a "tiny" amount of ordinance. What is this? Spare parts maybe? Would a complete lack of ordinance then cause engines to not function?

Geo

Re: Space Empires 5
 

[quote]Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
Arkcon, that we me that suggested ordinance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I've been lurking awhile, I recognize the lion by the print of his paw

But I think the same thing could be done even more simply. Just have weapons that use actual physical amunition track their own amunition.

This would be simpler.

I think MM could implement that even in SE IV. Now, some people might get angry at not being able to 'move ammunition around' between

Now hold on there Tex, this is a big change in tactics for everyone -- MM might want to save this for a new Version so people don't get ticked off. I don't think it's worth MM's time to alter the code, and not make it the default -- that is only to be done in mods or by game setup switch, or maybe it is? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Space Empires 5
 

Actually Baron, if you "grey" the ammunition thing a bit it could work. Don't get particular on missle, or DUC ammo. Just make all weapons use the generic ammo. Then you could have ammo storage compartments, and ships in a fleet could share ammo the way ships share supply now. Maybe add an ability to create ammo at the cost of supplies, for the inevitable Trek mod replicators, but I those should be used sparingly if at all.

Would you have energy wepons use ammo, or standard supplies?

Geoschmo

Re: Space Empires 5
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He could very easily add an optional "uses ammo" attribute that would not be in the stock game, but allow modders to change components to it if they wanted. One modder might want to make DUCS use ammo only and no supplies, while another might want some of both. But the stock game could have it use only supply.

As far as tracking ammo level, it would be in the code whether or not the particular mod was taking advantage of it. He could either just have it display a bar for ammo that was ignored, or maybe have a settings.txt entry to state whether ammo is to be used or not in the mod. It's doable, but it would be fairly complex.

And btw, if you are ever in dubt about who might have suggested something but you can't quite remember, it's a good bet it was Baron. He is a quite prolific "idea man". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Geoschmo

Re: Space Empires 5
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As I edited into the previous post, only some weapons would use 'both' energy and ordinance in my original idea. The advantage of energy weapons is just that they don't need 'special' amunition but use just the ship's energy reserves. With a clear limit on the number of 'shots' you could give seekers a much better advantage in total damage inflicted.

What got me thinking of 'counting' shots though, was that missiles ought to be able to have different types of warheads. If they have different types then you'd have to be able to keep count of how many of each type you had. I guess you'd do that by using different components and just refitting a ship with a different missile component when you wanted to change it. Keeping track of individual missiles in missile magazines could be headed for that 'micromanagement hell' thing again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Although if you really want this you can do it with drones.

Re: Space Empires 5
 

Starfire, at the height of its micromanagement (3rd Edition ISF rules before SM2), made you actually build different types of missiles, and store them in magazines on your ships, and track them getting used up in combat. It was rather like drones in SEIV now.

Re: Space Empires 5
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What you like how ships share supplies now???
I think that the ability to transfer supplies.
Maybe keep the auto-share in fleets, to avoid micro some managing. But I want to have a large transport go to the fleet carrying ammo and other supplies nad then GO BACK to the depots to pick up more without carring back a large portion of what it brought.

I also like the one type of ammo for every weapon and even or even more than one. Perhaps you can research better shells, or missiles for the cannon or missile tube you already have.

And also the idea of having supply generation have a cost and use this cost to replace current manteinance cost. A ship could be expensive to build but cheap to mantain or viceversa.

[ July 12, 2002, 23:19: Message edited by: Andr&eacutes Lescano ]

Re: Space Empires 5
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Take the idea of splitting supplies into Energy and Ordinance one step further -- perhaps repairing damaged components takes from the generic pool of Ordinance (said now also representing spare parts, as well as just bullets*) ... ? Might make establishing forward -bases- more important, especially in High tech games (instead of just slappign a Repair Bay III on every warship design, heh).

It would also help if SE5 tracked partial damage from one turn to the next -- then, lack of Ordinance-supplies could cause slow, progressive damage to all components that have to go without (in reverse order to your repair priorities, IOW, whatever you thinkis most important to fix, will be the Last thing to wear out for lack fo spare parts). So, no, your engines wouldn't stop working because you lacked spare parts ... but they will eventually break if you don't resupply the ship soon.

An increased need for spare parts based on higher and higher technology base could also provide a reason for building ships with "obsolete" technology -- you may be able to build better, but the "old-tech" stuff is FAR easier to keep in good repair "nowadays" ...

You'd also want to consider splitting the Supply storage component into "Magazine" and "Batteries" components. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Space Empires 5
 

I thought we already talked about Ordinance in that Micro/Macrodrone thread.

Re: Space Empires 5
 

And I thought the Last time it was discussed, somebody pointed out the difference between ordnance ( = military ammunition) and ordinance ( = governmental law).

Re: Space Empires 5
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey, who needs WMGs when you have red tape? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Space Empires 5
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yikes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Sorry 'bout that guys -- shoulda checked the dictionary before typing. Is military ammunition pronounced ORD-NANCE or is it still pronounced ORD-IN-ANCE despite the spelling?

Re: Space Empires 5
 

Okay, under the heading of Space Empires 5 -- that is, new code changes that alter the game from SE4 --&gt; SE5 the same way game play was altered from SE3 --&gt; SE4.

In SE4 we have asteroids which are convertible to planets of random type and atmosphere. How about in SE5 we have rocky asteroid fields, icy cometary debris(is that what's meant by ort clouds?) and storms made mostly of ionized gasses.

We would have individual components for condensing each into planets -- asteroids to rock, comets to ice, storms to gas giants. So you know what you're going to get, and what not to bother with.

Under the heading of Oh No, how about a switch to allow different planet types to have significantly different relative amounts of resources: rock planets are mineral rich, ice planets have lots of extractable organic building blocks frozen in them, gas giants are very rich in radioactives, but each type would be lacking in the others.

The result would be that people would have to remote mine, and defend their remote miners or trade with each other heavily. If by chance a gas giant race found one of the rare gas giants that was 80 % minerals -- they would have to hold that planet at all costs if they wanted to build ships at all. This would be cruel to the newbies, but some experts would like the challenge of overcoming the handicap.

Oh, and lets lose this asteroids with 200%+ resources. Maybe it's needed for remote mining to be usefull, but when it becomes a planet, re-roll the stats or decrement them by some amount. I don't see why we need this at all -- no one seems to have jumped on re-writing the AI to take advantage of this. Maybe remote mining should produce more or decrease the value less rapidly instead.

[ July 13, 2002, 13:34: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: Space Empires 5
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I like that idea, actually. And frankly, any planet you -make-, should have your own atmosphere ... after all, if you breathe Hydrogen, why would you BOTHER making an Oxygen-atmosphere world ... ?

And I'd like to see an expanded range of atmosphere types. 8)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A good way to do this is, not to make (say) all Gas Giants poor in minerals, period. Make them poorer in minerals than in radioactives. The maximums are now, what, 250%/250%/250% ... ? Change it to be 150%/150%/300% for gas giants, 150%/300%/150% for Ice worlds, and 300%/150%/150% for Rock worlds. That -would- be entertaining, IMO.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, 200% resources for asteroids isn't bad. If we go with Rock planets having a maximum of 300%/150%/150%, then rocky asteroids should have the same; after all, how can you build a 200%-mineral planet, out of 2%-mineral asteroids ... ? Besides, with the possibility of again being able to colonise asteroids ... it might be possible also, for Asteroids to be your HOME PLANET TYPE. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Space Empires 5
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's pronounced ord-nance as it's spelled. An unwieldy word, really -- following a consonant like "rd" with another consonant is bound to cause trouble. =)

Re: Space Empires 5
 

Here's a few:

Sensors- change these to have a range. Ideally the scanning power would drop off at range- say at 0 squares you could see through level 3 cloak, 1 square level 2, etc.

Also, I'd love to see a difference between Stealth and Cloak. Cloak could work like we have now; Stealth should be always-on and not interfere with the ship's actions or need supply (stealth would, of course, be easier to spot)

Phoenix-D

Re: Space Empires 5
 

Atmosphere type: Logically, atmosphere depends on the composition of the planet. The gases have to come from somewhere, and they usually come from inside the planet, although lif eon the surface can alter them as has happened with earth. We'd be a methane or carbon dioxide world without life freeing oxygen.

So, also logically, a planet ought to drift back towards its original atmosphere type when the terraforming input is removed.

Planet value: It makes sense for minerals and radioactives to be less accessible when asteroids are condensed into a solid planet than when free floating in space. It also makes sense for the mineral and radiactive value of planets to go UP when they are smashed into asteroids and the material is more accessible. Where is the value coming from when 'value improvement plants' are used after all?

It'd be cool if an AI could be taught to use remote mining, and then stellar manipulations to destroy planets it can't use so it can remote mine them. You could have some interesting conflicts with a 'ruthless' race that wants to smash planets it cannot use for mineral extraction while you want to live on them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Scanning and range: Yes, if the system map is expanded to at least a radius of 10, or we go to a coordinate system, then scanning ought to have a real range and this 'full knowledge' of a system just because you have one ship or unit there could end.

[ July 13, 2002, 23:12: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: Space Empires 5
 

I still don't see why you all want to split the "conditions" field into different variables like gravity and radiation only to manipulate all the variables again with one facility. I do however think it would be nice to have the "conditions" field related to a race, not to all races.
The "ammo" thing would be nice IMHO and I have thought about it myself some time ago. I think "ammo" or better "military stuff" (small weapons, personnel, ship weapons...) could be the 4th resource, but could not be harvested but must be produced with the other resources. It would be stored like all the other resources and distributed over the resupply bases. Further, the actually demand for "military stuff" should exceed the possible production in a large war so that you are forced to think about building new ships or resupply your fleets. Further, an ally could actually help you in a war with delivering supplies and would not be forced to enter the war (like the US supported England in both WW). A superpower could easily fight a war through its minions this way without ever firing a single shoot itself.

Re: Space Empires 5
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, conditions could be made so that each planet had a different condition for each race... but it just seems easier to me if there are a finite number of condition variables that can be compared to the different races, rather than arbitrarily assigning different conditions for each of the different races. In larger games, this could mean keeping only 5-10 variables per planet instead of 20 (if the 20-race limit stays). It also means it'd be a lot easier to introduce a new race in mid-game, if that would be supported.

Manipulating all the variables with one facility would be a very high-tech thing. Right now, humans would be analogous to a very low tech race is SEIV. The terraforming that we're capable of right now would be able to change atmosphere composition very slowly, and temperature. A race later on could change radiation levels perhaps, and atmosphere/temperature more quickly. So, closer to endgame, there could be an all-in-one facility, but for the rest of it they would probably be split into multiple facilities (probably, because someone could always mod it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ).

Re: Space Empires 5
 

In regards to planets I would like to see some of the following details added or expanded:
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Increased # of atmosphere types</font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Gravity</font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Conditions (Radiation/Climate etc)</font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Value depending on planet type/distance from star
  </font>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The fewer planet variables matching a race's variables would result in the planet producing a very poor colony or none at all.
In regards to ammo, I rather not have to worry about that. However, I think adding food for the population or a power source for planetary facilities might be nice.

Re: Space Empires 5
 

A {bump} for David Gervais and others interested in Space Empires 5

[EDIT]
I didn't even notice I went from Second Louie to First. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Well, that'll happen with all these fluff Posts of mine

[ January 24, 2003, 21:40: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: Space Empires 5
 

Thanks for bumping this thread, I'm sure Aaron will apreiciate the bump too!

Cheers!

Re: Space Empires 5
 

I'd like to see Armor and Sensors mean more in SE5. Battle Armor would continue past Level 3, it should be able to absorb about as much damage as shields do.

Basically, better sensors/crew skill would make for better sensor ranges. There would be two sensor ranges: Operational and Effective. Operational range is how SE4 works now, except cloaked ships would have a "to see" chance based on the level of cloak, proximity of the ships in question, size of the cloaked ship, and the on-board sensors/crew skill level.

Effective range is the next level down. You'd get the approximate size of any planets and a sensor fix, based on proximity and size of the ship(s) that were not "cloaked." Asteroid fields would be hidden at this level but you'd see Storms but not their type.

This could also bring in a better "fog of war" type situation. When planets, asteroids, storms, etc have been scanned, the type, size, value, atmosphere, and owner would be on file, but would only be updated when scanned again.

Re: Space Empires 5
 

For me the two most important points I would like to see in SE V are an improved AI and increased modability of the game. The possibilities to mod SE IV are great (especially compared to SE III), but there are still areas that could be improved (multiple weapon damage abilities, AI politics and fleet composition, multiple shield and armor levels e.g).

[ January 25, 2003, 06:42: Message edited by: Q ]

Re: Space Empires 5
 

I see a lot of people wishing for the stars, but I really would just like to see just a few things:

1) AI revamp, where the AI can actually figure out stellar manipulation, asteroid-mining/remote-mining and politics (which includes trading!), and maybe even new added components (although this would just be a bonus as it's moddable anyway).

2) Remote mining being even remotely usefull

3) A real character for all the races, and every special ability having it's uses. NO MORE Narn-regimes with non-existant ground combat capabilities and high research and maintenance-reduction abilities owning everybody! When I meet the Cryslonite, I want to tremble for having met a psychotic race, with genocidal leanings and dangerous tech, instead of going: "Cool, I can get gas-colonizing tech somewhere finally. Good thing they havent been exterminated yet like usually is the case.". When I meet the Orkz, let it be experienced as if I met a zany warlike race (actually I'm pretty content with that race, it has a pretty good own character compared to most races).
That is what I want to see. Of course there should be space for easy-to-modness, but now it feels a bit improvised, like they're all coming from the same mould, but with different paint on them.
More special racial abilities would be nice. For example: giant race (half population maximum, ships standard one size bigger; just a random idea)
Also this character should extend to diplomacy, and of course everyone likes to see the EEE really at conflict with the Drushocka, and races like the Drushocka really having energy-depleting weapons.

4) Integrated ground-combat. Problem with troops now is that it's such a hassle, especially for the AI (!). I feel a lot could be solved by making conscripts/enlisted troops part of the population. Possible adjustable, marines would be recruited automatically and gradually. (optional: costing resources like minerals, albeit little)
Every planet should have troops, and every ship should have some troops. Automatically. With optional components/facilities for more for planets that are in the frontline, and for ships fending off boarding or conducting boarding operations on their own. Marines dont take up that much place (barracks!) so why small troops take up so much is a riddle to me. Space-ship crew can double as security troops.
Then you could leave medium and large troops to be the really nasty weapons of ground-war, that DO take space up in cargo, and give nasty bonuses.
Then ground-combat can become interesting, especially with added suppressing fire from starships added to the equation.
(dont forget wars are rarely fought with soldiers alone, or tanks alone for that matter)

Perhaps ground-combat should be left moddable, so some smart wizzkid can code some really nifty plugin for SEV for GC.

Of course, in the best tradition of SEIV, this integrated GC-S could be left optional in favor of the current system =)

5) A use for all 3 resources. Heck, I'd be content if populations fed on organics, just give me a reason to trade, and to have more than 3 organics farms. Same goes for radioactives. Perhaps things would be different if refineries would produce one tenth of what they do now (and more realistic), but that's moddable.

6) Oh and a program that makes it easy to mod (and scenario-edit) would be nice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

7) On start up, pre-select amount of random races, and *randomized* races. Yes randomized races. If it's moddable, it's randomizable http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

8) One Last simple request...make the game remember my selections I made Last time when starting up. It's infuriating when I'm starting a game, forgot something, and have to click-click-clickety-click all the options I want on again. Especially when I prefer certain settings. I was so pissed off when Blizzard fubared this up in WC3, while Total Annihilation has had this for centuries.

======================================
And yes, a real-time 3D space-combat system would be my wet dream. But considering how (even them!) Lucas Arts fubared the space-combat in Star Wars Rebellion, I think it's safe to keep this out of everybody's wish-list. The game is a lot more playable when it's simple, not a resource-hog, and fast and overseeable.
But again as with a moddable GC-S, this would be nice to be up for mods! If the game calls upon a function, giving the number and position and qualities of ships/other involved to an external program, where that external program will give back the number, position and qualities of ships/other involved at the end of combat to the main program, someone could also make an improved SC-S all the same.
But perhaps this is just fancifull dreaming. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Space Empires 5
 

How about adding a facet of playability to 'Diplomacy'! Like a 'Diplomat'.
How about being able to hire a 'Hero' or two.

<font color=purple>mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font>

Re: Space Empires 5
 

Hmm..did i post here before..?

Anyway, i probably haven't posted this yet:
Moddable equations.
That's what i'd like to see in a game, it may seem complex, but it's possible.
Equations that can/should be made moddable are for example the planet happiness, or the hit-or-miss equation in combat.

A bad thing is that depending on the AI design, it may be impossible for the AI to handle it.
Off course, SE5 could also have a multihtreaded AI like in GalCiv, not only will the AI be better, but it could also handle the changing equations if designed for it.

[ January 25, 2003, 21:21: Message edited by: Lemmy ]

Re: Space Empires 5
 

I think scripting needs to be carried further - forget just the AI, I want scriptable ministers! It's relatively easy to embed a language like python and it'd be extremely handy for so large games:

- planets can build-and-launch mines or satellites, one turn's worth at a time. Nice for those 200kt cargo planets...
- low priority building - e.g. "if there's excess capacity this turn build these defenses in this order starting with border worlds"
- automatic replacements for weapons platforms, satellites, etc. The major interface would be a way to set the upgrade path. Scripting would allow this to happen one-by-one so you get the benefit of jettisoning the turn before completion and building, one unit at time so a planet is never undefended without all of the micromanagement.

This would also allow automating defense buildups (e.g. have planet x build only at the rate your mine/satellite layer can launch & automate the launch-resupply process; if there are already 100 satellites but they're older than the ones on-board, destroy/move the old ones and replace with modern, etc).

Re: Space Empires 5
 

Heh, almost forgot:

9) auto-launch option for unit producing planets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Space Empires 5
 

Play a Simultaneous game. Give Launch orders, then Repeat orders. It accomplishes the same thing.