Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

Yes, that's a good idea, Dogscoff. It could be done in a couple of ways (though it would be labor-intensive, unless the new mount abilities can be used to block analysis, which I bet they don't).

One is to add some racial traits that just give uniqueness. Another is to add several techs that can be researched to gain uniqueness. As long as your opponent doesn't take the same uniqueness traits or techs, they won't be able to analyze your components. It adds a bit of mystery to the thing, too.

The main problem is having to make more component models just to add uniqueness. Mounts would be a reasonable solution, except they probably don't block analysis, and they would bar combining with other mounts unless you made meta-mounts, which would could easily cause more interface hassle (and work for the modder) than it would be worth.

Perhaps a better solution is simply to add many variant tech branches and requirements throughout the tree, that actually do things, and so also reduce the likelihood that other empires will have the correct set of requirements to be able to take advantage of the captured tech. It's still a lot of work, but at least you can accomplish two effects at once.

PvK

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">True. Someone has made one that will do series of constant increases per level, which can save time and avoid typos. Best would be something where the user can tweak levels individually and very easily. In several game projects I've used Excel, then save as CSV, then program a parser that can read or translate the CSV into data the game can use. It would make sense to do the same here, but would of course be a spot of work. It may be worth it, though.

PvK

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is going in the wrong direction. The current SE IV 'racial specific technologies' system is just a crutch to make up for poor game design. As is often stated on the MOO 3 Boards, 'the laws of physics are the same for everyone'. You might add a tech to make things more difficult to analyze, but not 'impossible'. It is possible to analyze anything one way or another. If you want to prevent your stuff being analyzed, prevent it from being captured with better security measures. Self-destruct devices and security stations, mainly. I wish MM would make Boarding Parties retake a ship that mutinies, or add some new tech to do the same thing.

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Whoever is saying that needs to read more SF. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

There are lots of stories where humanity discovers that the "laws" of physics as we understand them are only localized phenomena, and change drastically at other places in the universe.

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

Other examples would be species who have a trait that gives them the unique ability to create or to use a certain technology, such as psychics or time sensitives, or religious connections.

Pirates, nomads, and space monsters are also good examples of where "racial" tech areas can make sense.

I would like to be able to have logical-OR prerequisites for tech areas and components, and not just logical-AND conditions. As is, you have to duplicate components if you want to have multiple paths to a certain tech.

PvK

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

Ups just see that the Religios trait in your mod isnt worth his points any more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Dont know if it was always the chase that you have to research to techlevel 9 to get the realy effect of the Religios Talisman witout geting anything worth the point of research bejond lvl 3.
I just have to pay 625k Research point to get to lvl 5 and get what? Only a 55 Size +20% to hit Item? Perhaps If you add 50% more to hit to this Items then they are worth theyr points and theyr size.

The major advance of the Religios race was the Talisman but with this you even can put it complet out and set the Religios Race Trait to perhaps 400 or even less points at beginning.

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

You are wrong. Religious is the most powerfull trait IMHO. The key is nature shrine. For a long time 99% of your income comes from Homeworld. Nature shrine, build in home system can give you a big edge. Certainly, you will not scrap Cultureal center to build value improvemnt plant !!

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

Multi-plex Tracking (2) upgrades to Secondary Fire Control.

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

One more thing about religious trait:
Low level, non-automatic hit Rel. Talisman stacks with Sensors. You get extra to-hit bonuses for some (prety stiff actually) ship space. Still, it is something worth to have.

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hm you are right that you dont scrap a Cultural center but you are surly scrap a useless Space Port or Resuply Center at your Homeworld for this.

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

For the starting 1500 Points I can get i.E. +4% Happiness and +11% Aggressivness.
I know that to get somthing simeliar to the Facility bonuses of level 3 Religios you have to research level 6 Computer.
Let me thake a look at level 6 of both:
- Both cost the same RPs till now
- the Religios player is 19% bether in to Hit if he spend 60kt space for this (else the player B is 11% bether in to hit).
- If player B use Computer in his Ships then he have at Last 20kt more place but are at a adentional -5% to hit and -2% to defense.
- The Religios Player is even bether in Combat in his sytems thanks to the facilitys he have
- The Religios player produce less research and Intell then the other player
Thake a look at level 7 the Religios Player need 1225000 to get to level 7 for this points I could research Military Science 1, Physic 1, Combat Suport 3, Sensors 3, Planetary Engineering 1, Planet Utilization 5 and more

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

EEEEK! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Scrap the Spaceport?????

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

Every Culural Center is a Space Port and a Resuply Depoth dont forget this! So the Space Port and the Resuply Depoth is useless at the Homeworld!

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

Yes, but you really want to have planetary robotoid facility and planetary research complex (duh, forgot the exact name) in place of resupply depot and spaceport ! There is still no place for V.I.P. (val.impr.plant). Besides, you can easily nature shrine build in first 30 turns. How long willl it take to get VIP ? You also have time shrine very fast.

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

Ya, even the lowest-level Proportions talisman is a very powerful item, especially built into a large ship, or added to a satellite stack or planetary defenses. +20 on top of any other bonuses is a major advantage. Especially considering the other changes to combat modifiers in Proportions (they are all much lower). And as others have pointed out, the economic benefits are quite potent. All of the shrines have very good effects.

PvK

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok, will fix, thanks.

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

Dunno if this has been mentioned, but there's an exploitable upgrade bug with weapon platform armor. WP Advanced armor upgrades into SHIP advanced armor, which is much stronger.

Phoenix-D

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

WP basic armor upgrades to ship basic armor too.

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

Yep, thanks. I'll try for a little fixes patch by this weekend some time.

PvK

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

PvK, I think it might be usefull to give some maintainance bonus to starliners. As it is, they are way too much inferior to medium size transports: cost twice in maintainace and have 3/4 of the speed. It means that the cost of shipping colonists via starliners is three times higher than via transports ! Since medium transports can be researched in just 6 turns (along with destroyers), I personally never build even single starliner.

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

PvK, Looks like your proportions website is down. At least I can't get to it. Is 2.4 posted anywhere else? I looked in the PBW file library and the Shrapnel mod forum and didn't see it.

Geoschmo

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

The small starliner is meant to be the low-tech inefficient (slower and expensive) population transport.

I guess I didn't realize medium transports could so quickly arrive to obsolete them, though. In my games, I've always ended up with several small starliners before I get med. transports.

Good observation. I'll consider some adjustments ... hmm.

...

Oh, and yes, my web server went down Last night. I just fixed it this morning. I haven't posted 2.4 anywhere else, due to lack of time / abundance of laziness.

PvK

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

Just a heads up PvK: the PBW admins just upgraded Proportions 24hr from Version 2.4 to Version 2.4.2. One of my players is reporting problems with the upgrade.

"I tried the update Version to from 2.4 to 2.4.2 but I allways get the Data Error! After I load the Full Version of Proportions 2.4.2 and instal this it works."

My guess is the upgrade and full Version data files differ, and the difference is enough to trigger SE4's data file error? PBW must be using the full Version.

Phoenix-D

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

I just had the exact problem. I always use the full Versions when I setup a new Version on PBW cause I am keeping the old vrsions around too. But when I tried using the upgrade from 2.4 to 2.4.2 avaialble on your site it gave me the data error. The upgrade from any Version to 2.4.2 (1.5 MB) works though. You don't have to actually download the complete 2.4.2 Version, you just can't use the tiny 2.4 to 2.4.2 upgrade.

Geoschmo

Re: Proportions Version 2.4 released
 

Yes, sorry about that. I must have made a mistake somehow in making the micro-patch 2.4 to 2.4.2. I'll try to figure that out and remedy it. Meanwhile, thanks guys for reporting this and finding the work-around, which is just to use a larger Version of the patch.

PvK