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Re: OT-Star Trek Nemesis
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You've got to admit the battle scene was exceptional. Worse than Insurrection? You're nuts. [ December 14, 2002, 05:50: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ] |
Re: OT-Star Trek Nemesis
i liked the way they tried to pull stuff from the series into this. Like they did with StarTrek 6 TOS. the battle scenes were impressive. I was shocked to see Deanna Troy actually play an important roll in the movie. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
War makes for strange allies. The Enterprise definitely did not look like a peaceful exploration ship in this movie. to bad it didnt have the Spinal Mount from the series finally. |
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OK, tomorrow is Nemesis, and this time nothing is going to stop me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif |
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My report: I enjoyed the movie, it was good, better than Insurrection, but...I found it lacking (somehow) in a way I can't really describe. The space battle was VERY cool, however, and I would recommend the movie. Maybe someone can help me identify what I thought was missing. REALLY looking forward to Two Towers next Wednesday!
[ December 14, 2002, 16:39: Message edited by: kalthalior ] |
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Here is a message for those who haven't seen it:
Do not be swayed by a lot of the negative nitpicks and criticisms you might have read on different websites. See the movie for yourself and enjoy it! If you go into the movie looking for every nitpick, you won't have a good time because you'll be too busy tearing it down. [ December 14, 2002, 18:02: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ] |
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The only I can say that is lacking is the sense of a real ending. Star Trek 2,3,4, and 6 all had real endings. Star Trek 1 was kind of just there. Shatner didn't have the cash (and never will thank god) to for ST5. Generations felt more like a TNG episodes. First Contact was watered down from the original scripts. Insurrection was an attempt at comedy like ST4 - What happen, I dunno....
To me, ST8 doesn't seem like it ends. There is no real threat of an ending like in ST2 or 6. |
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I thought I would chim in with a small review.
I went into Nemesis with no expectations. I had non ever since finding out about the plot nearly a year ago. After seeing Nemesis, one thought occured to me. If George Lucas could do what John Logan did here, then Star Wars AOTC, would have been a far better movie. That is to say, strong character development, and very talented acting, could easily over come a weak and dismal story plot. Did I say weak and dismal story plot? Well yes I did. I am sorry, I loved the movie for many reason, but I found the Nemesis's plot begged more questions than it provided answers. Some of the plot was just too much of a leep of faith to often for me to truly enjoy, however, despite the movies weak plot, I found that I actually enjoyed this movie because of the acting and the action. A very well acted movie on all levels. I did not like the dark look of the movie, and found myself often thinking that I was watching the movie with sun glasses on. I understood the plot point of this, but wished that it could have been a bit brighter. The lack of details in the plot, the questions it posed, and the far fetched B.4 character, and the mind meld sub plot between Troi and the Vice Roy really annoyed me. I understand the need for B4, and will not spoil it, but I truly wish they would have explianed in greater detail where they found him and how he came to be there. The Tori, Vice Roy sub plot really need more material to work for me. It was an interesting idea that was under used. One question lummed heavily on my mind while watching this movie, no it was not oh hey I know that Admiral lady, she's from Voyager, it was where in the hell was the Tal'Shiar? Come on now, one of the most feared, and still active (According to DS9) intelligance agencies in the quadrant allowing a human clone to amass an army and build a super dreadnought while in the process of plotting to over throw the Romulan leadership, without so much as an attempt to stop him? Kinda sounds like our own CIA doesn't it. The fact that they did not mention how they avoided the Tal'shair was just plain unforgiveable as a missed story detail. That is one thread of detail that simply should have been addressed. One thing is for sure with all of the STNG movies, they have outstanding production quality far far far better than the six previous trek movies, and that alone deserves a thank you to Paramount and films producers. Nemesis looked great, sounded great, and was a kick to watch. Over all, despite the weak plot and the many questions it raised, I like the movie enough to recommend paying full price too see it. Just be prepared to scratch your head often. The predict that Nemesis will break the 100 million mark during it's run. (I hope) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif They can actually scan positronic readings from an arm over two light years away??? Well I guess Data will not be able to ever hide again. Ooops, that was a bad pun. Me bad. Quote:
[ December 15, 2002, 10:26: Message edited by: Atrocities ] |
Re: OT-Star Trek Nemesis
***This Post Contains Spoilers ***
Atrocities: I disagree with the weak plot - that is not true - sure it had some nitpicks, but so does every movie including First Contact! The complaint re: Shinzon's forces is a common one by a lot of Star Trek fans. If you listen to the dialogue carefully, you can see how it might have been accomplished: Shinzon was mentioned as an important commander during the Dominion war and fought and won with the Reman forces during the worst conflicts of the war. So, he would be respected by the Remans for sure and valuable to the Romulans. The Schimitar, Shinzon's ship, didn't need to a secret project. I'm sure the Romulans are just as good as building starship prototypes like the Federation. It was probably given to him by the conspirators to command, as part of the plot against the Romulans. Since he had the support of most of the military including the Reman forces and the stated fact "governemnt changes" occur frequently on Romulus, it's not far fetched at all! Wow. Not so far-fetched eh? The B-4 acquisition is a little rushed - I suppose they could have found a better way of acquiring him - but it wasn't so bad as some people make it seem. |
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Well it sounds like a good flick to me. I kind of like those dark looking space movies. Around here a ticket will be 9 bucks, but as a long time fan, I think it will be worth it. I was a kid when the original series aired, and never saw the first episode until it was well into the cheap rerun time slots. Then when ST1 came out, the state of the art had improved so much, that I was awed. Let’s face it, Star Trek never had a really good story line and the production was 1960’s TV cheesy. The first series was a collection of reworks that more often that not were pretty sorry. And while STNG had some really good episodes, they also had a lot of boring episodes. But that is the budget process at work. The Last couple of seasons, STNG did manage to develop a continuing story line. The next two series are not worth mention, one is ridiculous and the other is a trek Version of some classic literature. The new series has had some good shows and some that really suck. If they are going to do an origins series, I think we need to see the wars that we always heard about in the first series. But they seem to have skipped them. Star Trek has always tried to show the Federation as peaceful explorers, but at the same time the story line was always one about the wars that were fought in the past. And often revolved around neutral zones and such. I for one have grown tired of seeing the Enterprise have to get a whooping before it fights back. How many times have we seen them tricked by a weaker foe, and then forced to fight from a disadvantaged position. The only Enterprise that I ever saw kick butt from the get go was the one with the three nacelles, a G10 I think it was. In conclusion, Star Trek has been a good series of shows and movies. But there has been at least as much bad trek as there was good trek. Any Trek movie that is enjoyable to watch is fine by me, but I have had enough of the warm fuzzy ones. They need to keep the action and adventure level high. And forget about trying to make feel good movies.
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Re: OT-Star Trek Nemesis
******SPOILER***********
I thought that the writers and producers decided that a plot like the fast and the furious was the way to go... and add alittle King Auther to the mix... to get new fans... Very cookie cutter. Less plot more action, cover up the lack of story with special effects. Sorry it was a stupid story. The whole data thing was silly... Ever heard of Lore... Oh look they downloaded his memory to the other guy... guess who does not make it to thenext movie... The enterprise was cool. But the other ship was bah.... And the script was horrible... Defensive pattern Kirk-delta... what ever. Oh well to each his own... I hope that is not the Last one... But at the same time i hope the movie is not too sucessful... As I do not want my beloved Trek to wallow down that path of Cookie Cutter Block Buster Crap. |
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I really enjoyed Nemesis. It seemed very much like a two-hour episode from the series, which is the level I expected. The production seemed very first-class, as the film had a shine that the tv series couldn't have afforded. I did find the set-up for the story a little abrupt, and as noted the missing Tal-Shiar makes you wonder about who wrote the story. I thought these people were all briefed on how to write in the Star Trek Universe. I would have liked more on the Troi-Viceroy angle, but they did use it and give her a little more time. I figured where B4 was going in all this, but I was holding out the hope that he was someone we Trek fans were a little more familiar with in our Trek villain ensemble.
I did like how there was a USS Archer. A friend pointed that out to me. I loved how the battle scenes had a definite Space Empires feel. I believe that most or many of the Star Trek shipsets had the Enterprise "Galaxy" class as a near top hull size...it's clear they will have to be downgraded just a little. |
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[ December 15, 2002, 17:40: Message edited by: SgtBigG ] |
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**********Spoiler Alert***************
I found it a little lacking in that Shinzon seizes control of the Romulan Empire so easily and then squanders it chasing after the Enterprise. Although I thought it funny that even if he had beaten Picard, he still would not have known where the Federation ships were because he had false information. He might well have failed to reach Earth and succesfully wipe it out, even with his great cloak. |
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Federation ship have historically been designed as exploration ships first, fightingships third or fourth. If the Federation were to make a starship with war in mind, it would be an awsome site to behold. But that would be a fundamental violation of the Principles that Gene Roddenburry had established for the Federation when he created Star Trek. So honestly, with this knowledge, I feel that the Galaxy Class ships are right where they belong as are the Soverign in the Trek ship sets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Quote:
The orignial story idea pitched by Logan was impressive in its scope, but the hackers at Paramount cheezed it up. Brent Spiner got involved very early on to help preserve some of the original story line as well as to indroduce his demise. Brent does not want to be in any more movies as a stated fact, so Data's death was a foregone conclusion the moment they found the first arm. The movie had a ton of questionable plot points, but overall the acting and action is what carried the movie. The fact that Shinzons ship had 70% shields and the Enterprise was able to ram her was a bit odd. (Established in many episodes, when shields are up, ships that attempt to ram bounce off.) I was not a fan of First Contact. I thought it was lacking in many ways. It was designed not with attention to plot and story as so much as it was designed for action. But many people wanted action so that is what they got. They tried that here to, but also tried to give us a far more gripping story. They did succeed, just not as successfully as they could have if they would have had another 30 mintues to do it. Why can a movie like this go three hours? I mean they only produce one every three to four years, so when one comes out, give us a lot of it. [ December 16, 2002, 02:03: Message edited by: Atrocities ] |
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I think a extended DVD Version would be great. And about the shields...remember the Jem'Hadar ship that destroyed the Odyssey in DS9? The Odyssey still had shields there too. Plus, either ship didn't have to be destroyed...both ships have top of the line armor (read: ablative)and the Enterprise ran into the large hangar of the Schimitar, which would disapate a lot of the energy combined with the saucer of the Enterprise acting as a crumple zone. It was certainly a battle more fitting for the Enterprise than any we have seen before - including the worse demise - the Enterprise-D taken out by an ancient Bird of Prey! [ December 16, 2002, 03:10: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ] |
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Hi! I just came back from watching Nemesis. For some reason, none of the theatres near my home showed it, so I had to drive quite a ways to go see it. I felt a bit apprehensive because the theatre is in the bad part of town with a high crime rate. Anyway, it was good! Certainly better than Insurrection, way better.
***** Spoiler Warning ***** Here's what I found lacking: Picard was behaving a bit out of character. I didn't particularly like the part with Picard driving that vehicle fast and doing a jump off a cliff into the Argo. That's just the kind of stuff from an action movie with a fast car chase, not very Star Trek-y. Also, the atmosphere of the whole movie was kind of dark, which was also different from the other movies. Why couldn't Data have duplicated another one of those portable transporter devices before he left? It would have taken 5 seconds and both he and Picard could have escaped. I didn't expect Data to die in the end. Considering how many narrow escapes he has had many times before, this particular time didn't seem any different. Why did he have to shoot that energy vortex and blow up the ship? Couldn't he have stopped the weapon by using the controls? Well, I guess Spiner decided he was going to die, so that's that. I suppose that he's going to be in the next movie after all, as B-4, if they make another one. The space battle scene was really good. Too bad the Enterprise wasn't armed with transphasic torpedoes and ablative armor; would have made short work of the Scimitar... Anyway, the battle scene was good, almost as good as the Kirk vs Khan battle in ST:2. Picard ramming the Scimitar was a surprise - I thought maybe he was going to use the Picard Maneuver... I agree with Atrocities that the movie was a bit too dark. Yes, and B-4 was kind of far fetched too, especially the Enterprise being able to detect positronic signals from such a distance. I thought that maybe the android was Data, trapped in another one of those travel-back-in-time or parallel universe situations, or maybe it was Lore. The trick with Data pretending to be B-4 was predictable, and I kept expecting that it will be done again to surprise us, but it didn't happen a second time. Overall, I enjoyed the movie, and I thought it was good. I might go see it a second time. In my opinion, Nemesis is the third best ST movie so far. I would rank the movies as follows: #1: The Wrath of Khan (II) - best #2: First Contact (VIII) #3: Nemesis (X) #4: Search for Spock (III) #5: The Undiscovered Country (VI) #6: Voyage Home (IV) #7: Generations (VII) #8: Insurrection (XI) #9: Star Trek: The Motion Picture (I) #10: The Final Frontier (V) - worst |
Re: OT-Star Trek Nemesis
I'm surprised that shields should bounce of a ship, too. I remember how often ships were enveloped into another ships shields or a shuttle would pass a shield bubble to transport or shoot inside of it without any protection from the shields for the poor big ship. Then again, I might be wrong. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
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Re: OT-Star Trek Nemesis
Hi, I just thought I'd share a link with you for a great site.
Five Minute Nemesis.. is a porrody of the movie that is short and sweet. Note: If you haven't seen the movie and don't want to get spoiled, go to the main site 5MV and browse through the other '5 min' parodies! Cheers! [ December 16, 2002, 15:06: Message edited by: David Gervais ] |
Re: OT-Star Trek Nemesis
Well, I must add that I enjoyed the dark atmosphere of the movie. Perhaps the cheesiest part of the film was Troy's telepathic scenes, but honestly, there are few scenes throughout the entire series where I thought her parts as a empathic or telepathic (whatever) weren't slightly silly.
Ok, but I was hoping for something massive. I was hoping to have the battle escalate into something really world destroying. Fleets of ships in battle. An invasion of earth. The planet destroying weapon, or whatever it was, has been done (Starwars), and at least in that movie, the deathstar was seconds away from firing....here it is seconds away from destroying the enterprise, which would be tragic I guess, but nothing devastating to me as a viewer. Naw, I saw Ebert trashing it, and while I don't agree with his blind criticism, I do agree that the movie didn't push the envelope. It is a different flavor of Star Trek, but that is all. SPOILER****** Yes, data dies, but that is the least they could do to make the movie mean something. |
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Overall, I enjoyed Nemesis. Much better than Insurrection. But it was supposed to be the script of a trekkie, someone who supposedly had watched ST:TNG enough to want to write a script? I think he missed a few episodes.
First of all, although it was nice to to see Wesley Crusher at the wedding reception/ceremony, why was he in a Star Fleet uniform? The Last I saw, he had either resigned from Star fleet or had gone awol to become a Traveller. Unless Picard had some pull to make Wesley in some sort of inactive reserve status, or something like that. I don't think any Federation scanner is powerful enough to pick up positronic signals from a disassembled droid from several light years away. If it had been a factory or a whole colony of Data-like droids, I could understand. But not one single android. What I want to know is where did Shizon find B-4? If there was any known labs of Data's creator(sorry, can't remember his name), then you would think Data would have at least known about them, let alone be in the data banks. It just didn't make any sense to me. The lack of mention of the Tal'Shar (sorry, don't know how to spell it) is another thing that was a sore point for me. Even if the Romulans go through such coups every so often, you would think that that particular intelligence section would be above all of that policital stuff. They're almost like the old Russian political officers, in that they enforce their interpretation of "The Romulan Way". Maybe the DVD with the deleted scenes/outtakes will explain some of these issues. Too bad Nimoy wouldn't participate in the film, but he's done with acting and is into photograpy. The darkness of the film didn't really bother me. I just found it hard to understand the science of the new weapon that got the Enterprise in an uproar. They kind of glossed over that. I was totally surprised by Data's death. I never even heard a rumor. I knew Spiner was getting tired of the role, but I didn't even guess at this ending. At least the whole world knew when Spock was to be killed off at the end of Kahn. Of all of the characters to be killed off, I just wish it hadn't been Data. One Last thing. How can Worf go from being the Federation ambassodor to Klingon, back to a weapons/security officer? I mean, after being an ambassodor, you would have thought they would have given Worf command of his own ship? Going back to his old post without a word of explanation I thought was irresponsible. It just didn't make sense. I guess there's only so many ways of accidently being in the neighborhood when the movie starts. |
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I personally enjoyed the different feel of the space battles in nemesis. The CGI has greatly improved too. The Cinematography was great. Especially the opening sequences, had a very different feel from the previous star trek films.
The very dark look of the film was very nice. And for once a captain talked a good game, but for nothing. It usually seems they either talk or fight, not both... |
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Worf was made an ambassador at the end of DS9. There was going to be a line in the film that stated "he wasn't suited to diplomacy." I also think he was just a guest at the wedding and not a crew member of the Enterprise - but I'm not sure of details. Perhaps a little line would have cleared things up better.
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i was a little upset that they did not have worf just drop by.... I was enjoying that running joke over the Last few movies
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I'm just glad I didn't see Wesley at the wedding scene. That would have really hurt my opinion of the movie. Unless they had him "travelling" through the Senate chamber just in time to die. That alone would have made it worth the price of admission.
I'm wondering. Data was alive (and emotional) in the future. How could that happen when he doesn't make it, and then that chip would be completely lost? Time travel gives me a headache. Why can't it be like it was in the good old days, when Kirk saw time travel as nothing more than a chance to romance more women? |
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That Last Next Generation episode. Where Q was sending Picard to the past and the future alternately.
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Okay, this oughta get fun. If it was a "what if", then how could the temporal anomaly come to pass since it required all 3 Enterprises to create the anomaly in the first place? If the future one didn't occur, then the anomaly couldn't be created.
On the other hand, Troi married Worf, and in Nemesis she married Riker. Hmmmmm....all very peculiar. I think I'll chalk it up to writers unable to follow storylines rather than to the mutability of the space-time continuum. Of course, having a Q around makes it all easy to explain.....Q made it happen!!! |
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Edit: fix the messed up UBB code that was showing [QB] etc [ December 20, 2002, 06:54: Message edited by: Kamog ] |
Re: OT-Star Trek Nemesis
Dax died. The symbiont went to another Dax host.
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