Re: SE4 by Committee
 

I'll volunteer for the finance minister.

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

This is all a really interesting idea.
I will probably take political minister.
What all would be involved with that one? I wouldn't need to be Online in like IRC would I? Let me know what all I would have to do.

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

this does all sound pretty cool. i probably would not have enough time to play very often, but i think i would not mind governing some little provincial backwatter, if one ever opened up. maybe if you ever colonize a planet with a moon(s) then I could take one or the other, and bicker with the govenor of the planet or moon.

or maybe if you just have some backwatter system filled with several small-fry planetary govenors, you could toss me in there too. maybe we could start a little civil war in the system, or have labor disputes or something. we could name the planet Berkeley and ban anything useful from being built there.

it would be a 'green' planet with no industrial construction, and no military construction, and we would get upset about the polution caused by excessive coffee bean grinding. and we would complain any time the output from our research facilities were used for anything besides developing new eco-friendly farming techniques.

or not. or most definitly not. i would still like to be a backwater govenor with neighbors to bicker with, though.

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As the political minister, you will get a major block of votes when dealing with alien races.
You would also be the person to turn to if another player wants to deal with aliens (trade, demands, pay a ransom for a captured avatar, etc).
Until aliens do show up, you'll essentially be a senator.

Signups:
#1: Geo. (General/Colony Ship Captain)
#2: Arkcon. (Science Minister)
#3: Matryx (General)
#4: Dead meat (Defense Minister)
#5: LazarusLong (Colonization Minister)
#6: TerranC (R&D Minister)
#7: Lemmy (General/Simulation Minister)
#8: Tesco Samoa (General)
#9: Dan C (Transportation Minister)
#10: Skulky (Construction Minister)
#11: Askan Nightbringer (Senator)
#12: Sabaoth (System Lord)
#13: Krsqk (Finance Minister)
#14: Ragnarok (Political Minister/Ambassador)
#15: Puke (Local Governor)

Minister jobs:
- Individual planets: small ones seem popular with RPers and those with little time to be in the spotlight. Manages ships in orbit.
- System lords: Rules all planets in a system that have no individual ministers. Manages ships making intra-system journeys.
(Taken) Political: One overall, or possibly one Minister for each race as an Ambassador.
(Taken) Finance: Watches over the budget and expenditures.
(Taken) Defense: Manages the overall inter-system distribution of warships.
- Economic: Manages resource generation, and general facility construction.
(Taken) Transportation: Manages the overall non-military shipping and travel arrangements.
(Taken) Colonization: Organizes colonization efforts.
Covered by Transportation if nobody claims the job.
(Taken) Science: Manages research projects.
(Taken) R&D: Designs ships.
- Covert Ops: Manages intel once researched.
(Taken) Construction: Decides locations to build at, and negotiates with local ministers.
- Naming Minister: Renames planets, ships, Design Classes.

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

I'll sign up for Naming minister.

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Alright, I think I can handle that. I will do the best I can.

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

Neato. I'll just be a senator for now, maybe pick up a small backwater planet (or system) later on.

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you can think of a better name than "Naming" minister, you're in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Signups:
#1: Geo. (General/Colony Ship Captain)
#2: Arkcon. (Science Minister)
#3: Matryx (General)
#4: Dead meat (Defense Minister)
#5: LazarusLong (Colonization Minister)
#6: TerranC (R&D Minister)
#7: Lemmy (General/Simulation Minister)
#8: Tesco Samoa (General)
#9: Dan C (Transportation Minister)
#10: Skulky (Construction Minister)
#11: Askan Nightbringer (Senator)
#12: Sabaoth (System Lord/Local Governor)
#13: Krsqk (Finance Minister)
#14: Ragnarok (Political Minister/Ambassador)
#15: Puke (Local Governor)
#16: Captain Kwok ("Naming" Minister)
#17: Will (Senator)

Minister jobs:
- Individual planets: small ones seem popular with RPers and those with little time to spend in the spotlight. Manages ships in orbit.
- System lords: Rules all planets in a system that have no individual ministers. Manages ships making intra-system journeys.
(Taken) Political: One overall, or possibly one Minister for each race as an Ambassador.
(Taken) Finance: Watches over the budget and expenditures.
(Taken) Defense: Manages the overall inter-system distribution of warships.
- Economic: Manages resource generation, and general facility construction.
(Taken) Transportation: Manages the overall non-military shipping and travel arrangements.
(Taken) Colonization: Organizes colonization efforts.
Covered by Transportation if nobody claims the job.
(Taken) Science: Manages research projects.
(Taken) R&D: Designs ships.
- Covert Ops: Manages intel once researched.
(Taken) Construction: Decides locations to build at, and negotiates with local ministers.
(Taken) Naming Minister: Renames planets, ships, Design Classes.

[ December 18, 2002, 23:09: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

..Intergalatic Designation Minister.. Been there done that and as a result I love the new show "John Doe" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

P.S. SJ, this thread is seeing as much action as my Avatar thread in it's hey day! It's great to be popular Eh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ December 18, 2002, 23:53: Message edited by: David Gervais ]

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

"Minister of Nomenclature" ?

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

Yes, it is nice to be popular http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geo:
Nice work, now I can build your office.

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What? I didn't want the job. I just was throwing that out there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

Hey SJ. Are you going to allow a System Lord to decide he wants to stage a little revolt if he wants. I could see one from a major system getting uppity and building some ships of his own. Might require some of the regular navy to show up and put the revolt down. Of course combat would be problematic. Maybe you could estimate it in the simulator or something. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey, oops. Ah, well. Kwok's got the job anyways. He's just got a little more pressure to come up with good names now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Geo:
Good question. A system lord could start voting against moving ships out, and try to collect a navy...
He would probably have to have a rebel General in the fleet or be personally present in order to block the senate's orders from the ships... The senate would be able to vote him out of office, but he should retain some command over the immediate ships.
Perhaps once loyalist ships or a senator enters the sector, the rebel would be removed and control returned to normal ... so the rebellion could withhold ships from a war effort by playing cat-and-mouse for a few months, or go off and attack on his own for a while.
This is worth a vote.

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

Personally, I think this is a great idea. Whole systems or Groups of systems could even band together and revolt. The home systems could even revolt (this would be much harder to organize with the high concentration of senators in the system; would also probably require out-of-game communication). This will probably turn into RL politics, with each minister or group of ministers promoting their own interests at the expense of the empire. Who knows, we may even see political parties form out of this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

The one concern I have right now is the level of involvment of the Senate. How much influence do they have in the day-to-day affairs of every planet or transport or exploration ship? Do they really even care if Planet X has enough fighters or System Y has a plague (unless that's where they're from:))? I guess the gist of my question is, does the Senate vote on every action, or are some actions only subject to the planet/system/fleet/whatever leaders?

One more question. Do I as finance minister have a say in the "invisible" financial matters, like worker or government payrolls? For example, could I get a 25% block to cut the research budget (by scrapping research facilities)? Just wondering exactly how far I can push my boundaries. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[edit-styoopid smileys:)]

[ December 19, 2002, 02:59: Message edited by: Krsqk ]

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Watch it there with those research centers, "he who cannot be named", as Minister of Science, I may have to throw my 25 % against you. And I'll have the support of governers of large, optimal planets with low resource levels. Who else would they support? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

The SE4 by Committee Forum
Thanks to Lazarus Long, there is now a forum up for the day-to-day running of this game!
Visit here, and sign up! (link)

Join up with your shrapnel names, or tell me who you are in this thread.
I will then add you, as applicable, to the senators, ministers, and officers Groups.
Ministers will get offices, and moderator powers there for taking calls and having meetings.
Officers have a lounge, and Senators are allowed to vote.
(Note: Ministers and Officers are Senators too)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The senate could certainly grant some independence to certain colonies and ministers. They could simply not bring up certain issues to vote on, and ignore them.
If a Minister or Officer wishes to do something against a senate decision, they would be privately warned that it may be considered treason. If the senate fails to notice, no problem, otherwise they may be voted a traitor and forcibly removed from office as a rebel.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, Construction Minister Skulky would get one of the blocks for build orders. And the other block would probably fall to the local governor of the planet in question.
Science Minister Arkcon might have a word or two for you as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

You could get a majority block on a vote for a budget plan "The empire needs to add six more rads facilities, and 20,000 mineral storage this next year"
If the construction minister then scraps rads miners and mineral storage facilities, him and the planetary governor/system lord in question may be branded traitors.
I suspect you will find you have more direct control over the out-going resources than the incoming. New ship construction would definitely be a finance concern.

That brings up the question of the social structure of the Empire... does the bigger minister get the majority vote, or the local governor?
Can there be a declared state of emergency where the priorities reverse?
Can local governors authorize construction,scrappings and other orders on their own?
If the local governor and the immediate minister agree, does a senate vote have to be taken?

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

I think it would be most realistic if the senate and the main minsters didn't get involved in every day to day decision a system lord or planetary governor makes. In times of economic crises they would vote to withhold resources for construction projects (put queues on hold) and might direct the various planets to build certain things.

The System Lords I think will be the most interesting position in this thing. They should have the ability to make autonimous decisions and decide whether to follow the Empires directions or not. Of course a System Lord that disobeys too often runs the risk of being replaced. So it will be a balancing act on their part.

Revolts would be very interesting. Some ships Generals could be convinced to follow the system lord with promises of larger ships and fleets to command. Maybe be given a planet of their own. This has so many intersting options in it. It could be fun to play even without AI. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

SJ, I can't seem to post in the other forum. It's telling me I have to have special access.

Geoschmo

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That also brings up the question of governmental structure. Are we (for the purposes of this game) a two-branch government with separation of powers and checks and balances? Or is either the executive branch or legislative branch supreme?

Will there be a defined goal for the game, such as 1) beat the AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif , 2) role-play and cause general mayhem, or 3) just do your thing? I.e., is there any "constitutional" direction for our empire, or is it solely the product of our clashes?

Also, will there be any process for including new "players" as the game progresses?

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

Yes, Geo. You need to be a senator in order to speak in the Senate Room.

Be patient for a second while I fiddle around in the admin menu http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Krsqk:
Structure, eh? Normally, I'd expect the ministers to have the most power. If they abuse it, some irate Generals might decide to move the fleet a few million klicks back from the shuttle as the Rage warships approach http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
It seems to me that it is a mostly homogenous single branch government that will self-divide chaotically according to the situation.

As for making some checks, balances and peeling off some branches, see the Senate room over at the committee Forum
http://www.invirtuo.cc/se4/index.php

Predetermined goal, I'd say survival is a good starting point http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Some players may want to gain power, and command huge fleets, or great political strength, or just to be the "local" governor of the first Sphereworld and have it named after themselves http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
If you want, the senate could vote for a declaration of principles or somesuch.

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

SJ, I just posted the new Badges in my 'Avatar' thread. Let me know what you think!

Cheers!

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

I want to be a planetary governor. Breathable world would be ideal.

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

Great stuff David!

I commented in the avatar thread too.

Spoo: No problem, there are still homeworlds available.
I've added you to the senators group, and I'm going to sleep now.

I'll finish with your special rank & stuff tomorrow http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

I'll take on teh job of economic minister for now as well. I'm in favor of a few dummy Ai empires being created to allow people to revolt (they will be given a new forum, and their holdings will be transfered to the new AI).

I think we shoudl also set up a judicial branch too (only supreme court). And an executive would be good (SJ???).

Im also all for the ministers having the most power, but the system lords being able to do day to day, its the ministers who give general orders, or orders to places lacking lords. I think we should also use normal SE4 not beta so that way everyone can look at the turn, that will help me for one with my decisions and make things sooooo mcuh faster.

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

Hey, SJ. What's the name of the empire? I just realized I don't know what it is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

Heh, something else noone has asked for would be a position as a member of the press. We have a newspaper room in the other forum. Perhaps it would be good to have a reporter or two to post on current events, do interviews with important empire figures, etc. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think that should be one of the first things the senate votes on.

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

Several things:

I do not want it to be a human empire - ugh!

Does every minister recieve a forum (office) for discussions?

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

SJ, your new badge order is in.. Get it over at the 'Avatar' thread!

Cheers!

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

Signups:
#1: Geo. (General/Colony Ship Captain)
#2: Arkcon. (Science Minister)
#3: Matryx (General)
#4: Dead meat (Defense Minister)
#5: LazarusLong (Colonization Minister)
#6: TerranC (R&D Minister)
#7: Lemmy (General/Simulation Minister)
#8: Tesco Samoa (General)
#9: Dan C (Transportation Minister)
#10: Skulky (Construction Minister)
#11: Askan Nightbringer (Senator)
#12: Sabaoth (System Lord/Local Governor)
#13: Krsqk (Finance Minister)
#14: Ragnarok (Political Minister/Ambassador)
#15: Puke (Local Governor)
#16: Captain Kwok (Nomenclature Minister)
#17: Will (Senator)
#18: Spoo (Local Governor)
#19: Ruatha (System Lord/Local Governor)
#20: Imperator Fyron (Minister -Industry/Economic?)

Minister jobs:
(Homeworlds Taken) Individual planets: small ones seem popular with RPers and those with little time to spend in the spotlight. Manages ships in orbit.
- System lords: Rules all planets in a system that have no individual ministers. Manages ships making intra-system journeys.
(Taken) Political: One overall, or possibly one Minister for each race as an Ambassador.
(Taken) Finance: Watches over the budget and expenditures.
(Taken) Defense: Manages the overall inter-system distribution of warships.
- Industry: Manages resource generation, and general facility construction. Negotiates with locals to build what facilities are required.
(Taken) Transportation: Manages the overall non-military shipping and travel arrangements.
(Taken) Colonization: Organizes colonization efforts.
Covered by Transportation if nobody claims the job.
(Taken) Science: Manages research projects.
(Taken) R&D: Designs ships.
- Covert Ops: Manages intel once researched.
(Taken) Construction: Decides locations to build at, and negotiates with local ministers.
(Taken) Minister of Nomenclature: Names and Renames planets, ships, Design Classes.

[ December 19, 2002, 19:00: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think that should be one of the first things the senate votes on.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wouldn't that be the job of the naming minister to present a list? In fact I am a bit disappointed that he has not suggested new names for everything, least of which is "naming minister".

What I would like to know is what race we are. Any ETA for some sort of organizational start? I think SJ was setting up a forum elsewhere, how is progess on that?

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

The forum is already set up.
http://www.invirtuo.cc/se4/index.php
Voting on issues have already begun.

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

Sorry, I posted that before, but it got pushed down aways in the thread without getting bumped back up.

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

SJ, guess you either didn't see this or disregarded it <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">on second thought it seems like Fyron has taken this job, o well.

[ December 20, 2002, 00:33: Message edited by: Skulky ]

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

One really cool idea:

Add a Bank to the game.

You will need a banker/accountant.

The central bank (represented by another empire) will allow system lords to tax up to 3% directly on production in their system on min/org/rads. These totals will be kept track of by the accountant and then gifted over to the other empire every turn. Gov't can tax income of rich ppl (senators, ministers) up to 30%. Their income is paid in $ not in min/org/rads. Of course $ can be converted into min/org/rads.

System wealth, calculated by adding up construction dollars spent, resarch points generated (x 1.2) and intel points generated (x 1.3) and adding in any min/org/rad production (x .5). You will get a number, when taxed by the system lord at up to 6% it is converted to $ and deposited in their account. Gov't can levy an additional tax up to 12%. Wealth is calculated every .0 turn so 2400.0, 2401.0, etc and then used to charge taxes for the next fiscal year.

Their will be negative effects for high taxes. one reovlt point for combined taxes over 5% per year, 2 for over 10%, and 4 for over 15%. These points will accrue over time. You can reduce them through other ways of course, however if left unattended revolt will forment.

If the total reaches 30 pts of governemnt caused tax points then the system (or any individual planet therein) will be able to revolt, revolt isn't possible before then. If the combined totals cause it to reach 50 pts the system will revolt, taking a leader with it from one of its planets, maybe killing the system lord who knows.

This will require lots of record keeping and may become too tiresome. But i'd like your comments anyway.

EDIT: had to leave midway through. Unfinished buisness

[ December 20, 2002, 00:31: Message edited by: Skulky ]

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

I want to be a system Lord, if there's still any system left, or Senator on a homeworld.

Otherwise I'd like to captain a ship, if possible.

[ December 19, 2002, 12:58: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

That sounds like a lot of work to simulate people's rebellions...

If the Finance wants to set up a complex tax system to decide how much money he will approve each governor and minister to spend, that's fine with me.

Rebellions would be roleplayed, where some local minister starts giving orders against senate decisions, or attempts to sabotage other ministers or something...

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

SJ, What is this Seniority? Is there a hierarchy? If there is, who goes from highest to lowest?

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

Is it too late to join the fun? I wouldn't mind being a planetary governor or a system lord... something that (hopefully) won't be hampered too much by my tendency to lurk. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Quikngruvn

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

SE4 by Committee Forum!
There is now a Recruitment Office on that Board specifically for signing up and finding a place in the game.

The players who have been in the game longest (or survived the longest since their Last death) would have seniority.
This would only affect who has first dibs on a job when someone gets killed or promoted away.

Unless someone bumps him off, Geoschmo has seniority, followed by Arkcon.
Geo dosen't appear to want a big job, but he will surely get a good planet to command when he wants to settle down and retire from the colony ship piloting business. Assuming he dosen't run into a damaging warppoint or an enemy cruiser on his travels. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Quikngruvn:
It is not too late at all, though the major minister slots are all taken.
I believe all the homeworlds are accounted for, but you could be a system lord, and/or move to one of the colonies that are sure to spring up in the first few turns.

Signups:
#1: Geo. (General/Colony Ship Captain)
#2: Arkcon. (Science Minister)
#3: Matryx (General)
#4: Dead meat (Defense Minister)
#5: LazarusLong (Colonization Minister)
#6: TerranC (R&D Minister)
#7: Lemmy (General/Simulation Minister)
#8: Tesco Samoa (General)
#9: Dan C (Transportation Minister)
#10: Skulky (Construction Minister)
#11: Askan Nightbringer (Senator)
#12: Sabaoth (System Lord/Local Governor)
#13: Krsqk (Finance Minister)
#14: Ragnarok (Political Minister/Ambassador)
#15: Puke (Local Governor)
#16: Captain Kwok (Nomenclature Minister)
#17: Will (Senator)
#18: Spoo (Local Governor)
#19: Ruatha (System Lord/Local Governor)
#20: Imperator Fyron (Minister -Industry/Economic?)
#21: Quikngruvn (Local Governor/ System Lord)

[ December 20, 2002, 15:21: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

Cool! I don't think I could devote enough time right now to playing a critical minister anyway, but maybe cause a little local havoc. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

BTW, there's no 'c' in my handle (for the sake of accuracy).

Quikngruvn

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

i belive im rather late, but still - can i get a position of a minor in R&D/Research offices, which will also mean i'll be the replacement for any of these (wherever i go) should they dissapear?

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

Thanks, David.

To all the new players:
please sign up in the recruitment office, at The SE4 by Committee Forums.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, the great thing is, you don't have to keep track of everything: that's what the other ministers are for http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .
Just respond to Posts that are made in your office, which should be fairly routine. And visit the active voting forum every now and then.

I can move you to a plain Senator if you like, or even put you down to an avatarless civilian.

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Unfortunately, the same goes for me to. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
With the holidays and the end of the semester coming for me, i don't think i'll have time, at least not until February.

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

Not a problem. You can still sign up on the Committee Forum, and look in from time to time at it like a story.

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

Sorry guys!

I think I'm going to drop out of the committee. It's a novel idea, but I don't have the time to keep up with it all. At this point, it's too confusing to follow what the heck is going on!

Perhaps Taera can take my place.

[ December 20, 2002, 12:24: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

SJ, THe 'Naming Minister's' badge has been posted in the 'Avatar' thread.

Cheers!

Re: SE4 by Committee
 

Speaking of stories, has anyone considered a story thread here for the Committee game? I would think the story potential will be tremendous....

Quikngruvn