Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, they will get 1/8 movement.

------------------------------------------------

Not having Bridge/Aux con = 1/2 movement penalty
Not having Lifesupport = 1/4 movement penalty
Not having Crew quarters = 1/2 movement penalty

Not losing speed due to Computer Virus attack = Priceless.

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think a better idea is to follow the pattern as it is now for other components and use the "Misc Ability" requirements that are in the design files currently instead of making up new rules. The problem before wasn't getting the AI to build ships with MC. All you had to do was put them in the design files and it used them. The problem was getting the AI to not also put a bridge/LS/CQ component along with the MC. That I beleive was what was asked for. At least that's what I asked for. I don't know what others suggested. I don't know if there was some programming limitation that made that difficult or what. But if I was going to ask for another change it would be to default to using the B/CQ/LS as before, but if the design file called for MC and MC was available us that instead.

The only thing then is for the cases where you might want both. But the current fix has that problem as well.

Geoschmo

[ January 28, 2003, 18:41: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

"The only thing then is for the cases where you might want both. But the current fix has that problem as well."
Couldn't you just call for the B/LS/CQ abilities as Misc Abilities?

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maybe. What I was thinking is though is that the first part of the idea would override that. If se4.exe sees MC in the mics abilities it is supposed to use MC instead of a bridge. BUT, if it sees bridge in the misc abilities farther down the list, it needs to know "Now I want you to use both".

I could see it getting confused and using the Last one requested, or always override with MC. But I am not a programmer. I am sure there's a way around that.

Geoschmo

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

I know how to get people to stop grumbling about AI limitations. Tell them to start build one of their own. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Then maybe they'll see that programs have a habit of doing things that they were not program to do and rarely do the things that they were suppose to do.

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, technically a program is incapable of doing something it wasn't programmed to do. Although it's prefectly capable of doing something that it was programmed to do that you didn't know you programmed it to do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Geoschmo

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maybe. What I was thinking is though is that the first part of the idea would override that. If se4.exe sees MC in the mics abilities it is supposed to use MC instead of a bridge. BUT, if it sees bridge in the misc abilities farther down the list, it needs to know "Now I want you to use both".

I could see it getting confused and using the Last one requested, or always override with MC. But I am not a programmer. I am sure there's a way around that.

Geoschmo</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is not a problem. All you have to do is install a subroutine to remove standard ship control components when the MC is installed. Don't change anything with regard to the standard components. If you DO want both, just put the abilities for the standard ship controls after the call to the MC ability just like you would if you wanted extras in a standard ship.

What would be more interesting is to have supply usage enabled for crew quarters and life support. Then you could have default supply usage for ships if you wanted it, and this would be an extra advantage for the MC as well.

I'd also like to see different effects for crew quarters that let you have more or less 'ample' accomodations for your crews - then you could get better crew morale/performance for good quarters but less space for war machinery, or less crew morale/performance for poor quarters but more space for sheer equipment. You could even have racial advantages/disadvantages involving more or less need for life support equipment in your ships. As it is, we have the usual 'all or nothing' problem. Either you have enough Crew Quarters or not. But I suppose that's a major design change that would be too much for SE IV at this late stage. We'll have to wait for SE V to ask for that.

[ January 28, 2003, 22:02: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

When playing with AIs, most of us give them some sort of bonus, right? So having them build a MC on colonizers or transports isn't quite as bad as if a human did it.

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, we really do have to try and see. People are really worried about the MC on a colonizer, but it is on a one way trip after all. I know, the farther it goes, the more maintenance costs mount up, but what if it doesn't go far?

[ January 28, 2003, 23:00: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

I remember arguing about this before my, ahem, absense. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

The changes made so that an AS can no longer effect a ship with a damaged MC make perfect logical sense because a ship with an MC has no crew to convert. However, if a ship's MC is destroyed then that ship should be dead in the water instead of being able to continue to fight with a movement penalty.

The change so that AI's will always use the MC if they've researched it is way too heavy-handed. We're going to see some odd, and very expensive, AI ship designs.

It looks to me that the AI in general just got handicapped and psychic AI's just got screwed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Other than those issues the patch seems great. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (I don't want to be totally negative! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

I know, the farther it goes, the more maintenance costs mount up, but what if it doesn't go far?"

It takes longer to build.

Phoenix-D

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

Not all colonizers are dispatched immediately. The AI files tell the computer to keep a certain number of them available regardless of the availability of planets to colonize. So the extra maintenance will have an impact. But colonizers are relatively rare. It's the use of the MC in all ships that is the real problem. Every population transport, every troop transport, every sat layer, mine layer, mine sweeper. All those ships will be costing much more in maintenance. And the AI already has trouble managing its resouce budget.

[ January 29, 2003, 02:42: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

I agree. It should be obvious that the master computer ability should have to be called for in the ai design files and not just automatically used in every situation once researched.

Has Aaron been e-mail on this subject?

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

So a CV on a WP can fire to range 12... So what? Its not gonna hit much at that range. In fact it would be hard pressed to get better than the minimum 1% chance at anything more than range 8 even with the 30% bonus. The ships, on the other hand, rarely miss once they are within range. I'm betting on the ships.

Kim

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

Don't forget to adjust your Path.txt. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

So I copy my se4 directory to a new folder install the patch and open by PBEM game and voila my race is now using a random ships set!? The wierd things is they were just using a stock set. Wierder still is that if I go back into ver 1.78 and open an old turn I also get a random ship set. WTF??

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OK So I just figured out the reason for this was my crappy memory. I was really playing TDM game and race and didn't copy the TDM folder. DOH!

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

is there any way to do a mass upgrade or issue of commands to ships and bases. it gets rather time consuming issuing commands/upgrades to each individual ship across the starmap. i know you can select all ships in the same square but i have ships scattered all over the place.

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think there's a Minister that can do something like this, but I've never trusted them enough to try it.

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

No. Because the ship has to be at a space yard to be upgraded.

Re: new SEIV patch !!
 

Said minister can move the ship back to be upgraded I think.

Then you just have to figure out if that's a good or bad thing..

Phoenix-D