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Re: Things in SEIV I never knew about....
Rather than make a new one, I thought I'd revive this old thread.
Things I learned in my Last PBW game (Devnull Mod, but I don't think that matters for any of these): 1 You can open multiple warp points in one sector, even on top of a planet, star, or asteroid (or sphereworld, for that matter) 2 If you put two Space Yard component on a ship, you get a single queue that can build with twice the speed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif 3 Replicant Centers (organic) are COOL! A single Level III Replicant Center gives every planet in the system 40M extra pop per turn!! (VERY nice if you populate every planet in the system with native-breathing population!) 4 Religious Talisman is NASTY! 100% hit rate is HUGE. At the end of a 130 turn game, the ships with Talisman could take out my best ships about 3 to 1. (Good thing I had 5x as many ships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) 5 Plague Ships are NASTY, too. Especially L5, when I had basically ignored that research area. 6 Never let your Counter Intelligence projects finish!! 7 You can give your ships fairly complex sets of orders, including Stellar Manipulation. Like this: Move to Fenves Coordinates (3,4) Open Warp Point Move to Fenves Coordinates (9,9) You can EVEN open a warp point, and send an attack fleet through ON THE SAME TURN IN SIMULTANEOUS. You can't give a "Warp" order for a location without a warp point, but if you simply give the fleet a "move to" order to the far-away system, IT WORKS!! You just give your Warp Opener the orders to open the point, and then give the fleet the orders to "Move to" the far away system. The fleet will move a couple of squares toward an existing warp point to start its (normally) long journey, then it will notice the new warp point, turn around, and go through!!! The only thing you can't determine in advance is where in that other system the warp point will appear. Unfortunately, I discovered this one AFTER the game was over. Opening a warp point normally gives people a 1 turn warning to muster their troops. |
Re: Things in SEIV I never knew about....
I like to turn off the galaxy map grid. It give the big (small map on the lower right hand side) a more space feel.
1. Click the EMPIRE STATUS icon. (Crown) 2. Click on EMPIRE OPTIONS. 3. Scroll down to GALAXY DISPLAY 4. Uncheck Show Grid Lines. |
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I belive in standard game you can't increase build speed by having more than one space yard? right? Also in standard I'm not sure about opening worm holes, that might work. But the bad thing is that I can't use move to, close worm hole... As it then says, There is no worm hole at this sector if I'm not positioned at a wormhole when I enter the orders. |
Re: Things in SEIV I never knew about....
P&N PBW also has the ability to make multiple SY planets.
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[ March 15, 2003, 09:23: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ] |
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I belive in standard game you can't increase build speed by having more than one space yard? right? Also in standard I'm not sure about opening worm holes, that might work. But the bad thing is that I can't use move to, close worm hole... As it then says, There is no worm hole at this sector if I'm not positioned at a wormhole when I enter the orders.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You're right about the space yards. In the standard game, it tells you "Only 1 component allowed per ship". Regarding the ship orders for stellar manipulation, it depends on the component. You can't give orders to CLOSE a warp point unless you are on a warp point (although it doesn't have to be the one you want to close) You CAN give it the orders to open a warp point, create a planet, or create a star from anywhere, even if you aren't on an asteroid or in a system where you can create a star. Obviously, if by the time it tries to execute the orders, its not on an asteroid, it can't create the planet. I'm currently testing all the other stellar manipulation components to see which ones allow you to set orders to execute other places. For example, can you warp into a black hole system and collapse it in the same turn? Does it depend on whether the ship was damaged going through the warp point? I'll report back here what I find. |
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"This is a big part of the reason why the Talisman has always been horribly unbalancing. Nothing should ever give 100% to hit rate."
It can if it was other things backing it up. Like being really frigging expensive. It's already 50kt in size..how about 50kt, 4000/4000/4000 cost? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Phoenix-D |
Re: Things in SEIV I never knew about....
Sorry if this is old news, but I hadn't realized this before, and I just had an epiphany Last night, and felt I needed to share (and and and and... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )!
Let's say you've managed to max out the Applied Research tech. Now let's say you have just colonized a planet with, oh... let's say... 20 facility slots. Now let's say you want the planet to be dedicated to research, so you order up 20 Research III facilities (let's ignore Computer Complexes and such). Guess what? Assuming that your planetary construction rate is 2000/2000/2000, you're missing out on 100,000 extra research points at a cost of only 15,000 extra minerals. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Why? Research III facilities cost 2500 minerals to build; you'll build one every other turn. In contrast, Research II facilities cost 2000 minerals; you'll build one each and every turn. By building a new research facility each turn instead of every other turn, you'll be accumulating more research points sooner. The extra 100 points of research generated by a level III facility (compared to a level II facility) does not justify the extra turn necessary to build the level III facility directly. You're better off building level II facilities more quickly, and then upgrading afterwards. This is where the extra 15,000kT of minerals come in: an extra 25,000kT to upgrade the 20 facilities (half of the level III facilities' cost), minus the 10,000kT saved by building cheaper facilities up front. If your empire production can support the extra expenditure, you should go for it!!! I just verified this on a spreadsheet this morning. Eeek, a spreadsheet!!! Does that mean I'm helping SEIV turn into MOO3? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif --Raynfala |
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The most efficient way to build them is level II's (until you can build level III's in 1 turn due to population and happiness bonuses), leaving 2 slots open on larger worlds. After you build your level II's, then look at the build times for the appropriate facility to multiply the planet's output, system output and to upgrade. Do them in order of cheapest first. For research, you would build the Central Computer Complex, then the System Computer complex, then upgrade to level III's in that order. Better yet, build the system computer on another planet in parallel. Slick. p.s. I had to do the spreadsheet thing myself a few months ago to prove it to myself as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif |
Re: Things in SEIV I never knew about....
"I like to turn off the galaxy map grid. It give the big (small map on the lower right hand side) a more space feel."
I do this as well, and on the system map, I like to do the reverse and turn ON the grid to help me determine for far I can travel. |
Re: Things in SEIV I never knew about....
(Note: both quotes edited to conserve space)
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p.s. I had to do the spreadsheet thing myself a few months ago to prove it to myself as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Don't feel bad about this; back in December 2000/January 2001 there was a whole thread dedicated to figuring out the required formula, and whether there was a break-even point where it was better to accept the 2-turn build times of level 3 facilities vs. building level 2 facilities and upgrading later. It was a bit more complicated when comparing mineral miner facility builds, because then the upgrade cost reduced the benefit of the extra production. But it turned out as Slick mentioned - no matter how many facilities are involved, it's better to spend 1 turn building a level 2 facility and upgrade later than to spend 2 turns building a level 3 facility. Too bad that thread is lost to the sands of old servers... |
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http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...=007178#000000 Had a hard time finding the thread, but I knew it was one I started. I never did come back to post my results, but they are here. By the way, the unfortunate thing about this fact is that once you have level III of any facility, (min, org, rad, research, intel), you best not be upgrading all your facilities with the construction queue. This will update the level II's in the queues to III's, and this is NOT what you want. Slick. [ March 20, 2003, 01:24: Message edited by: Slick ] |
Re: Things in SEIV I never knew about....
Things I did not know about SEIV.
1. That it was so horribly addictive 2. That I would become so involved with it as to make 25 ship sets. 3. That the community would be the way that it is. 4. That is would be well supported 5. That it would still be my Top played game after two years. 6. That the game would be so enjoyable to learn and talk about. 7. That the game would be easily modible. 8. That there would be so many mods for the game. 9. That it would kick MOO3's arse. 10. That it continuely draws new players who can not believe that such a game has existed for over two years. These things were welcome surprises. |
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(Link deleted because it's causing serious formatting problems) Had a hard time finding the thread, but I knew it was one I started. I never did come back to post my results, but they are here. By the way, the unfortunate thing about this fact is that once you have level III of any facility, (min, org, rad, research, intel), you best not be upgrading all your facilities with the construction queue. This will update the level II's in the queues to III's, and this is NOT what you want. Slick.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, actually, here is the thread I was referring to: LINK to thread discussing upgrading vs. straight build It took me a while to figure out which thread I wanted because the original thread was a different topic... [ March 20, 2003, 15:52: Message edited by: DirectorTsaarx ] |
Re: Things in SEIV I never knew about....
Customize your strategies as soon as possible and add them to "..._AI_strategies.txt" so that you don't have to make them each time you start a new game. They can be significantly improved.
Although crew's experience doesn't affect missiles to-hit chances(always 100%) it affects it's to-defend chances so it's a good idea to train them. Ships not armed with direct-fire weapon(there are exeptions such as PD's) do not gain experience from battles. [ March 25, 2003, 12:47: Message edited by: Ward ] |
Re: Things in SEIV I never knew about....
When building something it applys the maximum quantity of Min / Org / Rad that it can each turn. Thus on the 2nd and 3rd turn of construction of a smaller ship it will not require Rads or Orgs.
This is signifigant if it looks like you will run out of Rads the next turn. |
Re: Things in SEIV I never knew about....
If a ship has no weapons with higher damage than the emissive rating of the enemy ships, it will not attack. Just found that out while working on some modding.
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Yea, the ramming ships will gain experience when destroy other ships using their hulls... |
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Yea, the ramming ships will gain experience when destroy other ships using their hulls...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The reason that missile ships do not gain experience is that the ships themselves do not do any damage or cause any deaths. The missile units are what do the damage when they hit the enemy ships. The game technically assigns an experience point to the missile (or it would if units could gain experience) for the kill. This is the same as carriers not gaining experience for the kills made by the fighters they launch. Ramming ships can gain experience because it is the ship itself that does the damage. [ March 27, 2003, 18:59: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ] |
Re: Things in SEIV I never knew about....
OK, another dumb question http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Am I to understand there is a way to put ships (for example) in a queue and have leftover "construction points" from the first ship in the queue to pass to the second ship? Example: Ship 1 takes 2 turns to build but on the second turn, the construction queue is really only adding on the Last (for instance) 20% of the ship. If there is another ship of the same size in the queue, will the remaining 80% construction points be applied on turn 2 to the second ship in the queue. So that after 3 full turns, you have 2 completed ships? |
Re: Things in SEIV I never knew about....
No. Construction rates represent the maximum number of resources of each type that can be put into building and object in each turn. They do not represent a pool of construction points. Any unused rate is lost.
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The most efficient way to make sure that your construction queues are going to be used to full capacity is to design your ships with the largest cost (typically minerals) just under a multiple of the build speed.
Lets say your spaceyards are building at 3000 per turn. Good ship designs: 3000 (1 turn), 5900 (2 turns), 8950 (3 turns), etc Bad ship designs: 3100 (2 turns), 6250 (3 turns), 9400 (4 turns). I sometimes even designs variations of the same ship for different speed spaceyards. |
Re: Things in SEIV I never knew about....
Just remove a comp or two, then retrofit the ship after finished to add those comps back on.
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I realize if you have the resources to throw away, it's alright but... |
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Retro is about economics. If you can aford it, do it. This is a viable alternative to races with weak production, but extra resources per turn.
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Also, one of the reasons the game is so good! |
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you can get unused construction points to carry over into the next build by ordering multile units (ie one fighter takes one turn to build, but ten fighters of the same design might only need 8 or 9 turns at the same yard. YMMV)
I didn't know about ramming and experience, thanks. |
Re: Things in SEIV I never knew about....
Later in the game when you fight ships with shield depleters consider investing in Armor. It really pays off.
Yesterday, I did some experiments with hi-tech ships. I found out that ships with armor perform much better than those with shields, when facing enemy with shield depleters(this is logical, after all, but it didn't strike me before). I admit I didn't consider weapons that penetrate armor(this inludes almost exclusively crystaline tech tree, Null space weapons are too exppensive to be effective) and you will have to repair very often but this way your ships will survive longer and thus will have more experience. The point is that ships with shield depleters will have less damage potential against you. Another advantage is mineral cost. While a "standard" dreadnought with anti-proton beams costs about 27000 minerals, an armor-protected ship costs about 21000 minerals. BTW: You can add one shield generator and one shield regenerator. Just in case there are some boarding fanatics. :-) |
Re: Things in SEIV I never knew about....
Yes, that's true and that's why I proposed to give there shield regenerator. Anyway, if the enemy has the firepower to put down your shields in 1 turn(and on hi-tech ships he usually has) you are in trouble anyway. With armor you have at least something to protect you... And if you know that the enemy has those weapons, just retrofit one wepon to repulser beam and most problems are gone.
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That' not always an option. |
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I was speaking about dreadnoughts. That's surely a BIG ship. O.K. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif There are Baseships, but those you can outmaneuver and save the space for weapons.
I did the experiment for 12 hours. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I tried every logical combination and ship sizes BB-BS. For a long time I played with Shield- and Engine- and Weapon- damaging weapons(Including Null-space). Unfortunately it seems that the best weapon is Anti-proton beam alone. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif I don't like that result but it is what I have seen. (As I mentioned before I didn't count any special techs in.) [ March 28, 2003, 13:30: Message edited by: Ward ] |
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In my current game, I've been doing a lot of retrofitting... mostly retrofitting of ships that I captured through Intel (yeah, yeah, I know...). At your retrofitting sites, it helps a lot to have ships/bases bristling with repair bays. Otherwise, your retrofitting takes way too long to be of use, and it hampers repairs on battleworn ships returning from the front lines. If you retrofit a lot, invest in Repair tech. Repair-intensive bases should be sufficient to assist planet-based shipyards, but if you want to go mobile, you'll need some Ship Construction tech to efficiently cart around multiple repair bays. Of course, when you go mobile, you can't retrofit "one-timer" components, such as Emergency Propulsion, planet building/destroying items, etc. You need a planet-based facility for that. --Raynfala |
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raynfala:
You get more ships in a given time frame. It is not about the individual ship, but about overall production. Also, the ships can save time training in the long run if they get built at a planet with training facilities. |
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This is absolutely essential, especially in a heated contest. You want to bring your latest designs to bear against a tough foe. Sitting in wait increases the effective strike time against your foe, and reduces the potential impact/advantage of imposing your new tech (i.e. by the time you get to combat your combat has caught up). Always fly with repair ships and repair your retrofits on the fly. And don't waste time retrofitting engines, only upgrade critical components... unless you really have a lot of time and minerals on your hands. |
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Using an example: - Not using retrofits Turn 2: One ship finished Turn 4: Two ships finished ... Turn 10: Five ships finished - Using retrofits Turn 1: One ship retrofitting Turn 2: One ship finished, one ship retrofitting. Turn 3: Two ships finished, one ship retrofitting. ... Turn 10: Nine ships finished, one ship retrofitting. You see the difference now? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif |
Re: Things in SEIV I never knew about....
Ships with armour and no shields will have a hard time if enemy uses engine killers !
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