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tesco samoa

February 13th, 2003 10:32 PM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

Aloofim
I think the world will survive with the collaplse of the the us economy...

The 'pie' is changing... USA's slice is decreasing while other countries slice is increasing.

The world is not in a recession. USA is in a recession.

metro637

February 13th, 2003 10:33 PM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

I'm speaking as an american minority whose has been poor and went days without eating, no electricity and running water?

tbontob

February 13th, 2003 10:39 PM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

Quote:

Originally posted by Krsqk:
Jesus said that His church was not a building, but the people. The church is comprised of the people who believe in Jesus as the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant, the Mosaic law, and the earlier Messianic promises, and follow his commands and teachings. However, there is a practical need for a meeting place. In the early church days, people met in the homes of fellow believers. Roman persecution drove the church underground (often literally). After the legalization of Christianity, churches once again met in the open. When Constantine married the church and the Roman state, Christianity became somewhat of a fad among the Roman elite, who had previously been steeped in pagan tradition. They saw ornate buildings as a vital part of worship. The tradition of large, ornate church buildings can be traced back to this time. Modern churches generally fall into one of two camps: 1) Size and opulence are the way to go; or 2) Spend enough to get the building you need, and do it well, but not to excess. [edit] I guess there is a third group, the "whatever we can come up with is good enough for God." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

A Christian cannot be defined as one who goes to church or one who prays (although a Christian will do these things). A Christian is one who 1) accepts that Jesus died for the sins of the world, fulfilling the law, and for his own sins, individually. They should 2) accept the authority of the Bible over man's word and tradition, and they should 3) try to conform their life to the principles found in the Bible. Many who believe 1) don't accept 2) and live in direct contradiction to 3); according to the Bible, they are still technically Christians, but they don't live out their faith.

Krsqk http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

What is a little known fact is that the early Christians did their own share of persecuting. Only, it was against their own kind.

When Constantine "married" the Christian church and the state in the early 4th century, he wanted a unified religion under which he could govern his empire.

So, he convened the Council of Nicea and the debate started on whether Jesus was:
1) totally divine
2) totally humane
3) part divine, part human.

Basically, there were 2 major camps, totally divine and totally humane. With some in between.

Eventually, they decided he was totally humane and totally divine. IMHO, this was a political decision. Everybody got what they supposedly wanted.

But one sect of Christianity, the Nestorians who lived in Asia, didn't accept the Nicene Creed. They believed Jesus was human and not divine.

This sect was persecuted and eventually went underground. With varying degrees of persecution, they lived this way down through the centuries.

Then Mohammed came onto the scene. I suspect many Nestorians joined Mohammed along with the tribes of the area who had a wide range of tribal gods.

Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet and not divine.

Main stream Muslims have a high regard for Christ, Mary and other Biblical figures. More to the point, they claim they were derived from Abraham as do the Jews and Christians.

There are some interesting stats which gives one pause to think. For example, the Koran mentions Jesus's mother, "Mary", more often than the Bible does.

But, of course, the question of Christ's divinity divides our religions.

metro637

February 13th, 2003 10:52 PM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

If the U.S. economy was to collapse that would hurt almost if not all countries on the globe. The only countries that would not be effected would be countries that had no dependence on U.S. imports/exports, no stock in U.S. companies, no U.S. stockholders(people/corporations), receives no type of U.S. aid and no financial/political relations with any country that did. Which country is that?

tbontob

February 13th, 2003 10:57 PM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

Quote:

Originally posted by metro637:
If the U.S. economy was to collapse that would hurt almost if not all countries on the globe. The only countries that would not be effected would be countries that had no dependence on U.S. imports/exports, no stock in U.S. companies, no U.S. stockholders(people/corporations), receives no type of U.S. aid and no financial/political relations with any country that did. Which country is that?

IMHO, all countries would be affected eventually. The ones that didn't trade with the U.S. do trade with countries that do.

So, while they may not be immediately affected, they will eventually be affected by the downturn in the economies of the nations they traded with.

EDIT: The countries will buy less from the "secluded" country which will cause a balance of payment problem resulting in the "secluded" country from buying less and resulting in a downturn of their economy.

Of course, this ignores the psychological implications which may have a role in speeding up the downturn of the country that doesn't trade with the U.S.

If I had to guess on the country, I would have to say "The vatican" which is an independant state within Italy.

However, it too may be affected as the donations it eventually receives from the individuals who live in the other countries can be expected to decrease.

[ February 13, 2003, 21:05: Message edited by: tbontob ]

rextorres

February 13th, 2003 11:00 PM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

Quote:

Originally posted by Andr&eacutes Lescano:
[QB]But it was made to sound so sweet back then.
Privatizations would give us more efficient services. Relatively small and weak local companies fusioned themselves with large multi-national ones.
Little did we know that all infrastructure and resources of those companies bought below their real price was just being emptied and sent back to the new owners home.

To be fair I must say that this was not only done by American companies but also by many european ones.
The great companies that control the world has grown beyond nationalities and here the �great power from the north� is most times associated with the USA.

Exchange rates were against us, our goods were too expensive and imported goods looked cheap. We were suffering a severe de-industrialization, exporting flour and importing cookies.
But we were too busy with all cheap imported goods we didn't have before that we didn't see it.
�welcome to the 1rst world� they said, and we were stupid enough to believe.
[QB]

Well the same sort of thing happened here in California with out of state power companies. We deregulated the power industry and all of sudden their were power shortages in the state when all that was really happening was speculation. The power industry was manufacturing shortages to drive up prices.

A lot of people here believe that govt just gets in the way and so are against regulations. Ironically - at least in this forum - some middle class and lower class (at least that's what they've professed) are against govt regulations when they are the very ones one who these regulations protect (rich people don't need protection they can afford to pay for their own services). Argentina and (power in California)is a perfect example of what can happen when "govt gets out of the way so business people can do business".

Aloofi

February 13th, 2003 11:10 PM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Many westerners fall into the trap of confusing "Christian" with "religious" because Christianity is so dominant amongst western cultures.[/QB]

I think all westerners are christians, wether they actualy practice Christianism or not. What I mean is that Western culture is a by product of Christianism, so their mindset is Christian, and so their values, understanding of the world, and even their business practices.
I don't belive there is such a thing as Human Culture, and the people that belive that do so because they think that everybody in the rest of the world think like they do.
I have found very diferents ways of thinking around the world, as well as diferents concepts of good and evil, right and wrong, justice and injustice.

Aloofi

February 13th, 2003 11:22 PM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

Quote:

Originally posted by rextorres:
Argentina and (power in California)is a perfect example of what can happen when "govt gets out of the way so business people can do business".[/QB]

Hey, all that its nothing more than Corpcrimes.
We should declare war on all corporations.
They only destroy small business and pay low salaries. And when the Corp's stocks are in free fall the big stockholders bail out thanks to inside information and the little ones lost even their lunch money.

geoschmo

February 13th, 2003 11:49 PM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

Quote:

Originally posted by rextorres:
Argentina and (power in California)is a perfect example of what can happen when "govt gets out of the way so business people can do business".

I don't know anything about Argentina, but California I do. Rex I'll say this for you. You are consistant. Wrong, but consistant. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The problem with the California power companies wasn't a lack of regulation, it was half regulation. They relaxed some of the rules aboout production and distribution, but kept the artificial price limits for residential power customers. That's a good way in the short term to get votes, but it's not exactly a good way to do business.

Geoschmo

rextorres

February 14th, 2003 12:05 AM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

crud. Rex, I accidentally hit edit instead of quote on your post. And since I am a moderator it let me do it. Can you edit it again and put what you said again. Sorry.

Geo

[ February 13, 2003, 23:35: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Mephisto

February 14th, 2003 01:53 AM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

Quote:

Originally posted by rextorres:
crud. Rex, I accidentally hit edit instead of quote on your post. And since I am a moderator it let me do it. Can you edit it again and put what you said again. Sorry.
Geo

Yea, I know THAT feeling, Geoschmo. One is typing away happily and post it only to find that you have edited instead of quote the post. Happend to me, too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Fyron

February 14th, 2003 02:36 AM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

The good ole Democratic state legislature of California forced the power companies to sell off most of their power plants to third parties, who were then able to jack up the prices and create false shortages to make huge profits.

Quote:

A lot of people here believe that govt just gets in the way and so are against regulations. Ironically - at least in this forum - some middle class and lower class (at least that's what they've professed) are against govt regulations when they are the very ones one who these regulations protect (rich people don't need protection they can afford to pay for their own services).

No, they most likely believe that the role of government is not to be big brother and to get its hands in places where they do not belong. There is nothing ironic about it. The role of government is to interact with other nations, protect us from hostile invasions, and provide a minimum amount of services that can not be provided by private companies. I can't speak for everyone, but I am against government regulation of things that the government has no business in regulating, and for regulation of the relatively small spectra of things that the government needs to have a hand in.

Quote:

Argentina and (power in California)is a perfect example of what can happen when "govt gets out of the way so business people can do business".

It is a good example of government officials not knowing what they are doing and fubaring everything, yes. Many states have deregulated energy markets that run perfectly fine. The only thing that allowed the crooks to create the power shortage was the piss-poor way in which the energy market was deregulated in CA. If it had been done properly, the energy crisis never would have happened. Now who was it again that allowed all this to happen? Ah yes, those guys that want to regulate everything under the sun. They usually end up not knowing how to go about anything right in the first place.

rextorres

February 14th, 2003 03:19 AM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

Quote:

It doesn't matter I was just ranting and raving!

rextorres

February 14th, 2003 03:23 AM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The good ole Democratic state legislature of California forced the power companies to sell off most of their power plants to third parties, who were then able to jack up the prices and create false shortages to make huge profits.

Pete Wilson, a Republican, was governor of california and considered the architect of deregulation.

[ February 14, 2003, 02:08: Message edited by: rextorres ]

Fyron

February 14th, 2003 04:11 AM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

It happened under Davis.

rextorres

February 14th, 2003 04:36 AM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
It happened under Davis.

Actually Davis INHERITED the problem. Deregulation occurred in 1996. It was signed by Wilson who was the architect. A fact that Republicans conveniently forget.

Here's a website that details all the problems - http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/power.crisis/comp.html (i purposely chose CNN so that you wouldn't accuse me of getting my information from a extremely liberal source). This website BTW was created before it was discovered that the power companies were gouging the state. It has only recently been disovered that the out of state power generators were colluding to drive up prices at the expense of consumers.

Also the City of Los Angeles was not part of the deregulation plan because it was generating its own power and did not have any problems (because it was regulated).

Greybeard

February 14th, 2003 05:00 AM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

[quote]Originally posted by rextorres:
[QB]

Quote:

(i purposely chose CNN so that you wouldn't accuse me of getting my information from a extremely liberal source). QB]

I can't believe that anyone thinks that CNN isn't an extremely liberal source, except maybe an extreme liberal...Greybeard

rextorres

February 14th, 2003 05:46 AM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

[quote]Originally posted by Greybeard:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rextorres:
[QB]

Quote:

(i purposely chose CNN so that you wouldn't accuse me of getting my information from a extremely liberal source). QB]

I can't believe that anyone thinks that CNN isn't an extremely liberal source, except maybe an extreme liberal...Greybeard<hr /></blockquote>. . .and Fox News whose editorial head worked in the Nixon, Reagan, and Bush Sr. white houses under various guises is "Fair and Balanced" - at least CNN makes a pretention of being unbiased.

Krsqk

February 14th, 2003 05:47 AM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

Quote:

(i purposely chose CNN so that you wouldn't accuse me of getting my information from a extremely liberal source)

Andr�s

February 14th, 2003 06:07 AM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

Well I could never travel as much I would have like, I've only left the country a couple of times and I've never gone to the US (America is the name of the whole continent, and I'm certainly in America)
But yes I read some international new, and have read many Posts in these forums complaining about the same problems.

rextorres

February 14th, 2003 06:10 AM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

Quote:

Originally posted by Krsqk:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />(i purposely chose CNN so that you wouldn't accuse me of getting my information from a extremely liberal source)

rextorres

February 14th, 2003 06:21 AM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

Quote:

ROFLOL!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

That's great! I think I'll print this and post it on the bulletin board at work! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Seriously, though, bringing up Fox doesn't make CNN unbiased any more than bringing up Ari Fleischer makes George Stephanopolous unbiased. Everyone has a bias. Denying that the (vast) majority of mainstream journalists, editors, and reporters hold liberal viewpoints contradicts their own statements. Denying that one's viewpoints color one's reporting is overly optimistic. Overlooking liberal bias in the media while jumping all over Fox News for conservative bias is...umm...*searches for non-inflammatory words*...inconsistent.

(Wow! I think it's an entire post without a single inflammatory remark! Do I get a prize? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )<hr /></blockquote>Yeah your right lets go through the list of all those liberals in the media:

Sean Hannity - he's a progressive christian who likes to speak his mind.
Chris Matthews - he's a left leaning liberal
CNN Pundit Pat Buchanan - he's liberal because all those Jews in Florida voted for him.
MSNBC pundit Alan Keyes - he must be liberal because he's black
Bill O'Reilly - he's a left wing muckraker
Wolf Blitzer - he's a crypto leftist
Rob Novak - he's a champion of the poor
Tony Snow - always asks Republicans the tough questions
Tim Russert - Never lets Republicans off the hook
Brit Hume - always fair and balanced

EDIT: Oh yeah how could I forget:

Rush Limbaugh - the head of Extreme Left talk radio

[ February 14, 2003, 04:28: Message edited by: rextorres ]

Grandpa Kim

February 14th, 2003 07:01 AM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

Quote:

Originally posted by Omega_Prime:
The problem with anarchy is, that by deffinition, there would be no way to enforce it.

You forgot to put in the ROFL!

The more I think about that statement the funnier it is. ROFLMAO

Grandpa Kim

February 14th, 2003 07:25 AM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

[quote]Originally posted by Greybeard:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rextorres:
[QB]

Quote:

(i purposely chose CNN so that you wouldn't accuse me of getting my information from a extremely liberal source). QB]

I can't believe that anyone thinks that CNN isn't an extremely liberal source, except maybe an extreme liberal...Greybeard<hr /></blockquote>I can't believe anyone believes the media! I doubt those self-serving morons could find their *** with both hands. Giving an accurate account of an event is waaaay beyond their means.

Baron Munchausen

February 14th, 2003 08:41 AM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

Quote:

Originally posted by rextorres:
Everyone acts as if it were a self-evident truth that the mass media are liberally biased. Where are those liberal TV channels? Could I please sign up for them? All I get on my cable system are center-right channels such as CNN, CNBC, MSNBC, and far-right channels such as the "we distort, you deride", Fox News, owned by equally far-right media tycoon Rupert Murdoch, and assorted christian nutball channels such as the Trinity Broadcasting Network or Pat Robertson's The 700 Club, carried by Fox Family.[/QB]

Heh... every time I see Fox News (which is when visiting someone else, I don't own a TV and would not pay for cable...) I keep expecting Robocop to resume any second. I wonder if they realize that they sound just like the news spoofs in Robocop?

But yes, I am also really baffled at the hue and cry about 'liberal media' carried by the media in this country. They're all butt-kissing toadies who wouldn't dare to challenge a thing the government Propo^H^H^H^H^H 'Press Secretaries' or 'Spokesmen' or whatever title they have today want to feed them.

I listen to NPR (only slightly less cowardly than the commercial networks) and the BBC when possible. BBC is an odd case. At least they aren't beholden to the US government, but they still seem to be a bit blinkered.

Askan Nightbringer

February 14th, 2003 09:07 AM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

I think I've said this before but...

Commercial Media relies on advertising revenue to exist. This means they cannot offend their advertisers, who are mainly corporations that rarely have left wing views.
The media companies will hire editors/producers/journalists to complement the generation of advertising revenue, not to jeopardise it. They will occasionally run something that is more "left opinionated" but its usually accompanied but a "balancing" article. This is to push the mythology of the "quest for the truth" that media once may have been. There is nothing more detrimental to a news source than nobody watching/reading/listening because it is obviously biased, because nobody will advertise if nobody is seeing it.

Askan

tesco samoa

February 14th, 2003 06:13 PM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

Quote "If the U.S. economy was to collapse that would hurt almost if not all countries on the globe. The only countries that would not be effected would be countries that had no dependence on U.S. imports/exports, no stock in U.S. companies, no U.S. stockholders(people/corporations), receives no type of U.S. aid and no financial/political relations with any country that did. Which country is that? "

You missed the key word of my post. Which was Survive.

metro637

February 14th, 2003 08:14 PM

Re: [OT] Nation bashing

All apologies. I see we are both in America. The point is that in most cases no government/people can be held to responsible for another nation's problems. Of course there the exception's like the Opium War when Britain for addictive drugs on the Chinese.

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