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Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
Narn vs Praetorian.
What a weird game!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Turn 60. The game looks balanced. Both races control their nearest systems. Turn 200-210. The Praetorians are winning. Control most of the galaxy, and the Narn only control 4 systems. Turn 290. The Praetorians are DEAD and the Narn won!!! Every time the Narn can have a decent fleet of DN attack ships (with the Talisman, of course), the other AI races can't stop them... Here the link: Narn_vs_Praetorians_A1.zip |
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Cylon vs Fazrah.
A very fast game... the Fazrah killed the Cylon before the turn 140. Here the link: Cylon_vs_Fazrah_A1.zip Now the game between the Cylon and the Praetorians will decide who will continue to the next round. |
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Orks vs Pyrochette.
The Pyrochette won at the turn 250. Thanks God the Orks surrendered their Last planets, because was a nightmare wait for every turn... Don't know, maybe was that the Pyrochette managed many Drones, but for 250 turn they needed 5 hours. Here the Link: Orks_vs_Pyrochette_A2.zip |
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Romulan vs Piundon.
The Piundon had a very slow start, and during a good part of the game, they were trying to protect their external systems (and in fact played most the time without Rove). But when the Piundon got the Dreadnoughts and was able to colonize all the kind of planets, they started to change the game. The Piundon won at the turn 440. Link: Romulan_vs_Piundon_A2.zip |
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Master Belisarius, some 'very' interesting results!
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Oh, do you mind me posting here?? <font color=purple>mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font> |
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[ March 02, 2003, 16:46: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ] |
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Klingon vs EEE.
The EEE won a deserved game against the Klingon. Link: Klingon_vs_EEE_A3.zip [ March 02, 2003, 16:51: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ] |
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In defense of my races, thse AI's were written for 1.67 and the only change since then was to make them compatible with 1.78. I will now be using these games to visualize and implement the necessary improvements to make them perform better in AI Death Match 3 (if there is one). Thanks for the news MB.
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I find it interesting that - so far - every game ended in war. I never had guessed that the games between the Narn and the Praetorians or the EEE and the Klingons would have ended in this way. I always thought of these races as peaceful.
Regarding this colony bug: Did anyone encounter it before? If yes, was it a turn based or a simultaneous game? Hi MB Your batch program is great, just great! [ March 02, 2003, 21:10: Message edited by: Rexxx ] |
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The idea is that every modder will have elements to compare and improve their races. If we can find a work-around for the "colony bug", probably I'll run a new contest. |
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Strange, but as you noted, I confirm that the colony bug depend in what side of the map start the AI. By the way REXXX, after the Klingon-vs-EEE, I did a EEE-vs-Klingon (just to be sure!), and the EEE still won but needed more time... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif Quote:
By the way, I have lost the source code... |
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Colonials vs Ekhazan.
The Colonials won at the turn 220. Link to the game: Colonials_vs_Ekhazan_A3.zip |
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Sallega vs United Flora
The United Flora killed the Sallega before the turn 160... Really I'm pissed by the "colony ship" bug... then did a new game (as test) between both races changing the starting possition... and the UF killed the Sallega before the turn 120!! The link: Sallega_vs_UFlora_A4.zip |
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About the "colony ship" bug, that this AI Match show is a important one, as one of the beta testers reported it to MM, and if yes, exist any response ?
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What is the "colony ship bug" you are talking about? What is happening?
Geoschmo |
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This is from an earlier post from Rexxx that describes the bug...
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Seems to happen in simultaneous, and depending of the starting possition. |
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Darn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Probably will have to rework construction_vehicles files for my AI . JUST IN CASE !
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Two fast games:
Drakol vs Earth Alliance. The EA won at the turn 180. Link: Drakol_vs_EA_A5.zip Corrian vs CueCappa. The CueCappa won at the turn 180 Link: Corrian_vs_A5.zip |
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Just to get things straight:
The "colonizer dead ends" are a known - yet unsolved - issue. The colony bug Master Belisarius described is new and it's a quite nasty one. |
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Two more games.
Toltayan vs Aquilaeian. The Aquilaeian won at the turn 167. Link: Toltayan_vs_Aquilaeian_A6.zip Gron vs Azorani. The Gron won at the turn 470. Link: Gron_vs_Azorani_A6.zip (A big file!) [ March 04, 2003, 22:58: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ] |
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And two more...
Namovans vs Vikings. The Vikings defeated the Namovans before the turn 190. And here the link: Namovans_vs_Vikings_A7.zip Shadows vs Tessellate. The Tessellate defeted the Shadows fast, at the turn 166. Because the Shadows use ships without shields (or low on it) but strong in Organic Armors, had not way to stop the Tessellate's weapons + the Talisman... The link: Shadows_vs_Tessellate_A7.zip [ March 05, 2003, 01:10: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ] |
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Rage vs Toron.
It was one of the best games of this contest, IMHO. The Rage used their heavy arsenal, and destroyed the stars in 3 Toron systems, and created a Black Hole in other 2... The Rage won at the turn 191. Here the link: Rage_vs_Toron_A8.zip |
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For example, you have several "attack ship" designs in "AI_design.txt" file. Now, if you call for "attack ship" in "creation_vehicles.txt" txt file, AI will build only the design it first encounter - the one closeset to the begining of design.txt file. The same could happen with colonizers. If you have: Colony Rock ... Colony Ice ... Colony Gas ... in design.txt file, AI will build only Rock colony ships ! I know it should not happen - AI treats colonizers differently than other ships, but it still can happen. "colonizer dead ends" is a very good example ! I suggest to reorganize design.txt file. For example Rock races should have Rock colonizers at the bottom. May be it will help. |
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For example, you have several "attack ship" designs in "AI_design.txt" file. Now, if you call for "attack ship" in "creation_vehicles.txt" txt file, AI will build only the design it first encounter - the one closeset to the begining of design.txt file. The same could happen with colonizers. If you have: Colony Rock ... Colony Ice ... Colony Gas ... in design.txt file, AI will build only Rock colony ships ! I know it should not happen - AI treats colonizers differently than other ships, but it still can happen. "colonizer dead ends" is a very good example ! I suggest to reorganize design.txt file. For example Rock races should have Rock colonizers at the bottom. May be it will help.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't think this is the reason. For example check the Aquilaeian vs Gron game (long file to download!). For more than 100 turns, the Aquilaeian built only ICE colonies... and the ICE colonies were in middle between Rock and Gas designes... |
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From time to time (every second or third turn) the Gron think of a LC equipped with CSMs as their best short range attack ship (I guess due to a lousy oversight in the design-file). Not the smartest thing a talisman race can do in mid- and endgame when they can have a DN coming with TKPs and the Talisman.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I saw this problem with most of the modded AI races... In other of my Posts on this topic, I wrote the work-around that in my view fix this problem (talking about the problem with the Sergetti's ships). When does exist several ship designes with different sizes, at some point, the AI start to rebuild their ships using small designes (old designes!). This start to occur (at least in the cases that I knew), after some time the AI reach the DN size. But think in some way is also related to the weapon that currently is using for the DN. An example, the Tessellate attack ships. As most the modders, I did different attack ships, depending of the ship size. Here the DN main design. Name := Attack Ship Design Type := Attack Ship Vehicle Type := Ship Default Strategy := Maximum Weapons Range Size Minimum Tonnage := 801 Size Maximum Tonnage := 5000 Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 2 Must Have Ability 1 := Weapons Always Hit Must Have Ability 2 := Quantum Reactor Minimum Speed := 4 Desired Speed := 6 Majority Weapon Family Pick 1 := 22 Majority Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0 Majority Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0 Majority Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0 Majority Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 1 := 30 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0 Shields Spaces Per One := 250 Armor Spaces Per One := 10000 Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 200 Majority Comp Ability := Weapon Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 200 Secondary Comp Ability := Weapon Num Misc Abilities := 7 Misc Ability 1 Name := Cloak Level Misc Ability 1 Spaces Per One := 10000 Misc Ability 2 Name := Combat To Hit Defense Plus Misc Ability 2 Spaces Per One := 10000 Misc Ability 3 Name := Point-Defense Misc Ability 3 Spaces Per One := 250 Misc Ability 4 Name := Self-Destruct Misc Ability 4 Spaces Per One := 10000 Misc Ability 5 Name := Multiplex Tracking Misc Ability 5 Spaces Per One := 10000 Misc Ability 6 Name := Extra Movement Generation Misc Ability 6 Spaces Per One := 10000 Misc Ability 7 Name := Point-Defense Misc Ability 7 Spaces Per One := 10000 The weapon "30" is the Shard Cannon. Well, time in time, after start to build these designes, the AI decided to re-create their attack ships... and had not better idea than build an old CR design, that used their Crystalline Armors and Napal Bombs as weapon... Here is: Name := Attack Ship Design Type := Attack Ship Vehicle Type := Ship Default Strategy := Ram Size Minimum Tonnage := 401 Size Maximum Tonnage := 500 Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 1 Must Have Ability 1 := Shield Generation From Damage Minimum Speed := 4 Desired Speed := 6 Majority Weapon Family Pick 1 := 0 Majority Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0 Majority Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0 Majority Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0 Majority Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 1 := 13 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0 Shields Spaces Per One := 250 Armor Spaces Per One := 0 Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 80 Majority Comp Ability := Shield Generation From Damage Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 10000 Secondary Comp Ability := Weapon Num Misc Abilities := 5 Misc Ability 1 Name := Quantum Reactor Misc Ability 1 Spaces Per One := 10000 Misc Ability 2 Name := Combat To Hit Defense Plus Misc Ability 2 Spaces Per One := 10000 Misc Ability 3 Name := Supply Storage Misc Ability 3 Spaces Per One := 10000 Misc Ability 4 Name := Point-Defense Misc Ability 4 Spaces Per One := 250 Misc Ability 5 Name := Self-Destruct Misc Ability 5 Spaces Per One := 10000 Why use this old CR design and at least, don't use the other BC or BB availabe ship designes???? I had an idea: did a paste of the original DN two times, with the idea that maybe the AI could use the second design (that was the same than the first of course!), instead the CR. I was wrong... Then, remembered that the Pyrochette never had this problem... and remembered that them used 2 kind of DN ships with different weapons. With this idea, I did a new try: designed a new DN that use the other Crystalline Weapon (can't remember the name... I don't like so much this weapon!!), their weapon family is 31. This thing fixed the problem!!!!!! The Tessellate started to rotate their ship designes, using the original DN with shard cannon during some time, and time in time, designed the DN with the other weapon as main attack ship. I had the same problem with the auxiliary ships: Support, Offensive sweepers, troop transport, and even with units. Using the same idea (designes with different weapons for the DN ships), never had again this problem. IT WORKED TO ME... and think should work to everybody!!! Hope it will help to create more strong AIs! |
Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
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From time to time (every second or third turn) the Gron think of a LC equipped with CSMs as their best short range attack ship (I guess due to a lousy oversight in the design-file). Not the smartest thing a talisman race can do in mid- and endgame when they can have a DN coming with TKPs and the Talisman.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I saw this problem with most of the modded AI races... In other of my Posts on this topic, I wrote the work-around that in my view fix this problem (talking about the problem with the Sergetti's ships). When does exist several ship designes with different sizes, at some point, the AI start to rebuild their ships using small designes (old designes!). This start to occur (at least in the cases that I knew), after some time the AI reach the DN size. But think in some way is also related to the weapon that currently is using for the DN. An example, the Tessellate attack ships. As most the modders, I did different attack ships, depending of the ship size. Here the DN main design. Name := Attack Ship Design Type := Attack Ship Vehicle Type := Ship Default Strategy := Maximum Weapons Range Size Minimum Tonnage := 801 Size Maximum Tonnage := 5000 Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 2 Must Have Ability 1 := Weapons Always Hit Must Have Ability 2 := Quantum Reactor Minimum Speed := 4 Desired Speed := 6 Majority Weapon Family Pick 1 := 22 Majority Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0 Majority Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0 Majority Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0 Majority Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 1 := 30 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0 Shields Spaces Per One := 250 Armor Spaces Per One := 10000 Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 200 Majority Comp Ability := Weapon Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 200 Secondary Comp Ability := Weapon Num Misc Abilities := 7 Misc Ability 1 Name := Cloak Level Misc Ability 1 Spaces Per One := 10000 Misc Ability 2 Name := Combat To Hit Defense Plus Misc Ability 2 Spaces Per One := 10000 Misc Ability 3 Name := Point-Defense Misc Ability 3 Spaces Per One := 250 Misc Ability 4 Name := Self-Destruct Misc Ability 4 Spaces Per One := 10000 Misc Ability 5 Name := Multiplex Tracking Misc Ability 5 Spaces Per One := 10000 Misc Ability 6 Name := Extra Movement Generation Misc Ability 6 Spaces Per One := 10000 Misc Ability 7 Name := Point-Defense Misc Ability 7 Spaces Per One := 10000 The weapon "30" is the Shard Cannon. Well, time in time, after start to build these designes, the AI decided to re-create their attack ships... and had not better idea than build an old CR design, that used their Crystalline Armors and Napal Bombs as weapon... Here is: Name := Attack Ship Design Type := Attack Ship Vehicle Type := Ship Default Strategy := Ram Size Minimum Tonnage := 401 Size Maximum Tonnage := 500 Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 1 Must Have Ability 1 := Shield Generation From Damage Minimum Speed := 4 Desired Speed := 6 Majority Weapon Family Pick 1 := 0 Majority Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0 Majority Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0 Majority Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0 Majority Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 1 := 13 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0 Secondary Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0 Shields Spaces Per One := 250 Armor Spaces Per One := 0 Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 80 Majority Comp Ability := Shield Generation From Damage Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 10000 Secondary Comp Ability := Weapon Num Misc Abilities := 5 Misc Ability 1 Name := Quantum Reactor Misc Ability 1 Spaces Per One := 10000 Misc Ability 2 Name := Combat To Hit Defense Plus Misc Ability 2 Spaces Per One := 10000 Misc Ability 3 Name := Supply Storage Misc Ability 3 Spaces Per One := 10000 Misc Ability 4 Name := Point-Defense Misc Ability 4 Spaces Per One := 250 Misc Ability 5 Name := Self-Destruct Misc Ability 5 Spaces Per One := 10000 Why use this old CR design and at least, don't use the other BC or BB availabe ship designes???? I had an idea: did a paste of the original DN two times, with the idea that maybe the AI could use the second design (that was the same than the first of course!), instead the CR. I was wrong... Then, remembered that the Pyrochette never had this problem... and remembered that them used 2 kind of DN ships with different weapons. With this idea, I did a new try: designed a new DN that use the other Crystalline Weapon (can't remember the name... I don't like so much this weapon!!), their weapon family is 31. This thing fixed the problem!!!!!! The Tessellate started to rotate their ship designes, using the original DN with shard cannon during some time, and time in time, designed the DN with the other weapon as main attack ship. I had the same problem with the auxiliary ships: Support, Offensive sweepers, troop transport, and even with units. Using the same idea (designes with different weapons for the DN ships), never had again this problem. IT WORKED TO ME... and think should work to everybody!!! Hope it will help to create more strong AIs!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Very interesting approach. My guess was the "design switching" came from using different weapons (smaller Gron ships use CSM, larger TKP). I think I can get rid of it by using a CSM as second Majority weapon pick and TKP as first one (for all ships). One more thing to be checked. So far I never saw it with ships which used everytime the same weapon. Maybe I just never realized this behaviour. Good to know that you find a workaround. A workaround which is harder to achieve for "normal" races than for "special" races whose weapon research led to several different weapons simultaneously. Anyway, the main thing is that there is a workaround at all and that the Gron are a psychic race. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif |
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From time to time (every second or third turn) the Gron think of a LC equipped with CSMs as their best short range attack ship (I guess due to a lousy oversight in the design-file). Not the smartest thing a talisman race can do in mid- and endgame when they can have a DN coming with TKPs and the Talisman. |
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Teslik vs XiChung.
The Testlik won at the turn 450. Think the XiChung need a major review to make them competitive (5 games in the tournaments 1 & 2 and 5 defeats). Here the link: Teslik_vs_XiChung_A8.zip |
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Fazrah vs Narn.
Both are great AIs, and was an interesting game for the first place... but something long: more than 9 hours playing. The Narn won by points after the turn 500. Then, the Narn won their group and the Fazrah got the second place. The link: Fazrah_vs_Narn_A1.zip |
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Cylon vs Praetorian.
The Preatorian won after the turn 121. Was a deserved victory and they got the Last place to the next round. Here the link: Cylon_vs_Praetorian_A1.zip The standings on this group were: Narn 3 points Fazrah 2 points Praetorian 1 point Cylon 0 point [ March 06, 2003, 23:43: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ] |
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Piundon vs Pyrochette.
The Pyrochette won at the turn 188, and finished with 3 points in the first place. Link: Piundon_vs_Pyrochette_A2.zip Now are fighting the Romulans and the Orks... and if the Romulans win, will need to play extra games to determine 2nd and 3rd place on this group. |
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MB,
Your post about 9 hour games made me curious. What sort of system do you run the games on, if you don't mind me asking. |
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Think still does exist into the download forum. Edit: I found the link to the SE4Batch program. SE4 BATCH After download and istall it, you should unzip the upgrade into the folder were you installed the program. UPDATE VERSION 1.1 Also, must say that only can assure that works in Win95/Win98... sorry (and by the way, I have lost the source code!) [ March 07, 2003, 22:19: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ] |
Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
Romulan vs Orks.
The Orks won at the turn 280. Sadly the Romulan had the "Colony bug" problem: during most part the game doesn't colonized their Ice planets. I did a new game between them (as test), but exchanging the starting places, and the Orks won again... then, my conscience is clean now. Here the link: Romulan_vs_Orks_A2.zip Then, the standings in the group A2 were: Pyrochette 3 points Orks 2 points Piundon 1 point Romulan 0 point. Then, the Pyrochette, Orks and Piundon are in the second round. |
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Sorry, I meant what cpu speed & memory you were using, that type on thing. But thanks for the links to the seiv batch as well!
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Not a high tech system: Pentium III 766Mhz, 256MB RAM and a HD with 20GB. |
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EEE vs Ekhazan.
The EEE had not problems to defeat the Ekhazan in less than 180 turns. Then, they got the first place in the group 3 Here the link: EEE_vs_Ekhazan_A3.zip Now I'm starting the game between the Colonials and the Klingon, for the 2nd place. |
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I really think they're the more strong of your races, and did merits to be in the second round. |
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Colonials vs Klingon.
The Klingon won at the turn 147. They expanded fast and very well, and then, got the 2nd place. Here the link: Colonials_vs_Klingon_A3.zip Standings in the group A3. EEE 3 points Klingon 2 points Colonials 1 point Ekhazan 0 point |
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I really think they're the more strong of your races, and did merits to be in the second round.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">However, obviously, all 3 need improvements. |
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Khrel vs UFlora.
Really expected a balanced game but I was wrong. The United Flora won at the turn 158 and got the first place. Interesting, but although the Khrel doesn't suffered the "colony bug", anyway were unable to stop the UF fleets. Here the link: Khrel_vs_UFlora_A4.zip Now I'm starting a game for the 3rd place: Sergetti vs Sallega |
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