Re: UI Glitches
 

Imperator Fyron,

First, you are mistaken about the 'Enter' / 'ESC' key being implemented in Rename ship. I guess Aaron missed one. So far, that's the only one I've found.

Second, Clear Queue turning or not turning off Repeat Build is a simple matter of choice. Aaron chose to leave it on. I would have turned it off.

Third, the game's UI is inconsistent. The Repeat Building of facilities is inconsistent with the Repeat Building of Units. That again was a choice made by Aaron. He chose to remove the queue entry when the planet is full but to not remove the queue entry when the cargo space in the sector of the planet is full. I personally like that it doesn't remove the queue entry when sector cargo storage is full.

Fourth, one of the *scathing remarks* made by multiple folks was that because I think that Clear Queue functions a certain way, I also think the game should correct my "bad" strategic decions. As proved here, the game is clearly already correcting player's "bad" strategic decisions.

Fifth, I really like the page you created off the Malfador site. Yeah, I know it's isn't related to the top four but so what?!? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Sixth, I left out something or other but then again, who really cares. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Seventh, in case you're curious, I'll probably be too busy with my current SEIV game to go buy MOO3 for at least a decade. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 25, 2003, 01:04: Message edited by: raynor ]

Re: UI Glitches
 

You can rename ships and hit [enter] instead of OK in Gold (for sure in 1.78 + 1.84) as I do it all the time for PBW - but not in the original 1.49 Version - I know 'cause it drives me nuts everytime I play my old 1.49 PBW games and hit [enter] and it BEEPS!

Re: UI Glitches
 

Oops. Yep. You're right. I was on the Ship Design screen when I named a design and press 'Enter'. But pressing 'Enter' here doesn't really mean much.

Re: UI Glitches
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Main Entry: scathe
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): scathed; scath·ing
1 : to do harm to; specifically : SCORCH, SEAR
2 : to assail with withering denunciation

Nothing I nor anyone else posted was quite scathing.

No, the game is not correcting any bad strategic decisions. All it does is in this regard is prevent you from adding an illegal number of components to a final ship design. If a planet fills with units or facilities and you order it to keep building them (either directly with adding a bunch of unit entries to the queue, or leaving them on with repeat build), it does not clear them from the queue. It should tell you in the log if a planet tried to build a facility when it was already full, like it does with units, which is not really a UI decision, so much as an oversight. Aaron Hall is not omniscient, after all.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I just got tired of not seeing one there, so bugged Aaron Hall about it. Well... not really "bugged"... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am glad to hear that you did not find these inconveniences to be too great to stop playing the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 25, 2003, 04:19: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: UI Glitches
 

If the planet has no more room for facilities, the game automatically deletes a 'Repeat Build' <facility> from the top of the build queue.

But, as with building units, it is very easily possible that you intended to repeat build a facility--even with a full planet--because you intended to, turn-by-turn, remove a different facility from the planet to make room for the new one.

Because the game is second-guessing me, I have to delete a facility and insert the build order every single turn.

This is clear evidence that the game is second guessing my strategic decisions.

Re: UI Glitches
 

You did originally say that the game did not do that, and it used resources to pay for facilities that never get built.

Re: UI Glitches
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's a bit confusing, yes?

Originally, I complained because I cleared the queue, and it didn't clear 'Repeat Build'. I ended up with three facilities in the queue with repeab build left on. The top item was a spaceport, and it built three of them.

Later in the discussion, someone pointed out that one of the reasons for multiple items in the build queue is so that you could repeat build a facility until the planet is full and then start producing units. They described a nifty neat new feature that looks to see if the planet is full. When it is full, the repeat build facility is removed from the queue, and the game starts with the next item.

The unique and quite unusual behavior that we discovered, though, is that once the game detects that the planet is full and deletes the top queue entry facility, it NEVER, NEVER checks that again. So, if you have a *second* facility in the queue, then the game will try forever and ever to build that item without successfully completing it. (And yes, it will waste those resources.)

DirectorTsaarx suggests an interesting use of this "feature" of the UI. You might use it to fill the planet, for example, with research centers and then start building the Computer Complex. The game would build Research Centers until the planet is full. It would detect that the planet is full and remove the research center from the queue. It would then begin building the computer complex.

The turn before the computer complex should be finished, the player could go "eject" the research complex. This creative approach would let you have four turns use of the Research Center before you ejected it to make room on the Last turn for the Computer Complex. (Normally, you wouldn't start building the Computer Complex unless you had an empty facility slot. Since it takes five turns to build the Computer Complex, you would have four or so turns of non-use for that facility slot.)

In my Last post, I was speaking specifically of the situation where you just have one facility in the queue. When the planet becomes full, the game removes this queue entry.

In one line of speaking, this default UI behavior may be described as the game "second guessing" your strategic decisions. It is easily possible to envision a scenario where you might want to repeat build facilities on a planet *after* it has become full. But the UI requires you to delete a facilty, issue a build order every single turn instead of allowing the repeat build order to continue and letting you just delete a facility every turn.

Now, that I've said that, this one should be easy:
Peter Piper picked a peck of pickeled peppers.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 25, 2003, 14:21: Message edited by: raynor ]

Re: UI Glitches
 

Let me describe a much, much simpler--and quite trivial UI glitch:

In the diplomacy -> build trade screen, you have toggles that let you adjust the amount of resources you propose to give. There is one for 10,000 and another for 100,000. When you "check" one of these and then "add" resources, it does them in multiples of 10,000 or 100,000 respectively. But when you "remove" resources, it just does them in increments of 1,000.

Yeah, yeah, this is so trivial, even I'm not going to mention it outside of here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: UI Glitches
 

I think the part about the resources being lost on construction of a facility or unit that never occurs is a bug. I wouldn't call it a huge bug, but it's a bug and in a perfect world ought to be fixed. But I guess that's where we get into priorities.

I don't think you can chalk it completely up to user error though. User error should cost you the loss of construction time maybe because you weren't paying attention. But where exactly do these resources go? They aren't simply vaporised. Even if you turned around and scraped the object you just built you'd get something back. Not the entire amount, but something.

Geoschmo

Re: UI Glitches
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Umm... you can remove them in increments of 10k or 100k too, not just 1k.

Re: UI Glitches
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, then that's a bug. It ought to at least give a log message when it doesn't build the facility you wanted. In fact, I can think of another way this problem could occur; say you have a small world colonized, and the colonists breathe the right atmosphere. The colony has built the first 8 of 10 facilities, is just about to finish number 9 and then you drop some extra colonists that breathe the wrong atmosphere. Now the colony is changed to a domed colony, with max. number of facilities changed to 2. Obviously, that 9th facility won't be built (max number of facilities exceeded), and there should be some kind of log message about the failure...
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You're exactly right. It's a question of personal preference which one works best for you. The first approach is good for when you know you'll be away from the game for a couple days, and don't want to forget about building satellites when you're finished building fighters. The second uses pretty much the same amount of mouse clicks, and works fine when you're playing multiple turns straight through. The Last approach requires more mousing, but less attention in later turns (as long as you notice when the planet starts building satellites to turn on repeat orders; but you could just as well insert multiple satellite orders). So, like everything else, each approach has its own pros and cons.

Re: UI Glitches
 

Imperator Fyron, can you please try editing a package involving resources again and see if it isn't removing them in increments of 1,000. I just tried alternate ways of doing it to see if maybe I was missing something. It really does seem that it is. Thanks!

Re: UI Glitches
 

I just tested this and it is indeed only taking off 1000, even if you havr 10000 or 100000 selected. It will increse the way its supposed to, but when it comes to decreasing it isn't.

Re: UI Glitches
 

AFAIK, holding down the Shift key still transfers 10,000 resources in both directions on the Trade screen.

Re: UI Glitches
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Tested it. Sure does, hold down shift to take out 10K per click. That helps alot. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: UI Glitches
 

Awesome. Thanks for the tip.

It wasn't that big of a deal. It was just a trivial thing I noticed that was easier to explain than the other trivial stuff. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: UI Glitches
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well... those buttons in the Diplomacy window are new in the latest patch, so it is possible that they are glitchy. The shift-clicking to add 10,000 has been around for ages though. Ever look through the hotkeys window in the in-game help window? It has loads of useful shortcuts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif