Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Originally posted by desdinova:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, most every tech tree is expanded; some with plus one tech, others with a few cross pre-reqs. This is to show some uncertainty in the way of research, ‘not all that is invested will bear fruit.’ ( However, right click on techs that offer NONE or where you want to go(and there may be a hint!),
This was very controversial with the LAN group that tested AIC , the first time. When they accepted it, I revised the tech tree a little and they really like it, not knowing again the best research course, This went on with every AIC upgrade that they tested.
It added something new and challenging that kept their interest, (just a little more)!
I did the same with some of the AI personality’s…

I may continue this slight randomizer: (research and AI personality) a little, with future AI Campaign upgrades.
(an AI (gaoap) setting to 18% from 15%) will make a slight difference in your next game, with some AI’s diplomacy!

“not exactly knowing what seed, will bear the best fruit”.!
Of coarse all, with in some reason!
~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Glad to see you are doing fine in those areas http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

What turn are you in?
~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, Finite is tough and requires a lot of economics.

Thanks, you are right if it wasn’t for Imperial Trade on Culture Centers and other Urban Centers (Communities, Cities, etc.) it may be totally impossible.
Actually, in a Finite game “super mining Complexes” will just drain your resources even faster.

Some keys to success is asteroids mining with Out Posts, Organic Domes and Refining Stations!
All Planetary Systems should have at least one asteroid field, all Sparse Planetary Systems have much more Asteroid fields.

There are the familiar Asteroid Belts, but they may not be in every cluster and in a Finite game these belts, are worth defending and most certainly going to war for http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

“For those who control the Spice, control the Universe”

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 14, 2003, 14:20: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

at work i am on turn 2047.1...also noticed that shield generators 4,5,6 and phased shield generators 2,3,4 are all listed in ship design screen even with list only latest available option on.
at home i havent played for a while.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks,
I will look into it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

When I am finished with the game I have going now, where I am playing the diplomat, my next game, I want to play Finite, it looks like a real challenge and I am an accountant, so by what I have read, lets see how I do.

Can you look at Ablative armour, when that upgrades designs to 6 ok, but it showed 4 in componant design.

Now, it looks fine 1-6 ???

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I look forward to the conclusion of the infinite game you have going now.

I received your 781 turn game file. Thank You.

Why have you not explored the Eastern half of the Quadrant?

When and how do you plan on making your move to solidify your position and to strike one of the AI players, I noticed that Drushocka shows no great affection towards you?

~
Starting Monday the Local LAN group and I are starting a new FINITE game, to look at some balance Issues, so if you can hold off your Solo Finite game until after next week, I could sure utilize your expertise and input if any changes are made.

~

I will also look into Ablative, please Email me on exactly what you observed in the Design Component available for use scroll?

Thanks

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 16, 2003, 17:02: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry, I did not reply sooner, desdinova.

The shields are staggered to help the AI choose the best available, I will tinker with the only latest available option; so others may be hidden.

Thanks for the Heads Up.

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 16, 2003, 17:08: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

ok, that makes since, i can see why the ai would need the different ones, i also noticed that about the ecm. i just noticed that the size of the ecm increases once certain levels are researched and it is a good thing that they are listed seperately as a destroyer cannot really hold the larger ones and still carry sufficient weapons. i like that it lets the larger ships help offset their penalties by giving components that they can carry but smaller ships wont necessary have room for. that armored structure is great, allows ships to take more punishment. but the increased minerals, and thus maintenance costs, i noticed nearly bankrupted me until i caught on. a destroyer with 5 of the ultra armored structure level 2 and the rest of the components costs over 10,000 minerals.
i really need to manage my fleets and resources better. (just what i need a game that reminds me how bad i am at resource management in reality http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

edit. just to see how the tech looks at higher levels i have started a game with all the tech and have a few questions.
1. starbase baseyard V has constuction capability of 2000 per turn but temporal baseyard III only has capability of 1500. since temporal baseyard 3 is the most advanced tech it is the one that shows when i use show only latest. thus we actually lose out on this.
2. shield generator 1 is 30k but sg 2 and above are 40kg, this is also true in the basic game, thus when upgrading ships i have to remove components to get the benefit of level 2. can either level one be change to 40kg or the others changed to 30kt?
3. point defense ship mounts are larger than small ship mounts but do less damage. is the point defense supposed to be a smaller mount than the small ship mount? edit: i guess it could be larger to take into account the extra targeting capabilities the pt def mod, as it is +40 to hit where as the small ship mount is only +10.

[ March 17, 2003, 06:19: Message edited by: desdinova ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

desdinova:
Armor Structure is Based from SE4 and refined in Proportions.
PvK, if I am not mistaken is paving the way in all Armor categories and with AWESOME results! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Yes, high level Armor; can do a number on the AI as well!
~~~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">True, maximum effort in base yards has a higher return for all players then temporals highest base yard output.

One reason is that Temporal Technology yields not only the traditional facilities but will present Temporal Yards in the normal course of the Temporal research path.

I felt that if any Player wanted to make a maximum effort in ship yard construction, that Player should be rewarded with the highest construction output for BSYs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am not sure of what you are asking of me, here?
Shield 1, auto upgrade as with the standard se4 procedures.

Sure all shields can be lowered to 30kt, I have not given this much thought.
What do you suggest?

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 17, 2003, 15:03: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

1: temporal spaceyard, the problem i have is when i auto upgrade it replaces the regular spaceyard 5 with temporal spaceyard 3 which has the lower production, it was thinking tsy might be changed to another family or tsy3 set below the sy5 as most recent.
2: again with auto upgrade, the sg1 when is upgraded to sg2+ it says i have gone over the limit for the size of the ship by 10kt for every sg1 upgraded. just to avoid this problem i would suggest making the sg1 40kt just like the other shield generators. i have already done this with the games i am playing, but i am not sure if others have experienced this problem. i may be the only one who just hits upgrade and does not design upgrades from scratch for all i know, or others may not bother with lvl 1 shields.

[ March 17, 2003, 20:48: Message edited by: desdinova ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed,
Temporal Lvl 3 BSY increase output (250 per) with next and Last upgrade to BSY Lvl 5 BSY!

Thanks, desdinova http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 26, 2003, 14:53: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I like your idea on standardizing the Shield KT thru out.

Maybe 30kt for ALL standard Shield Generators http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Phased - Shield Generators; stay at 40kt.
Regenerating Shield Generator; stay 45kt.

What do you think?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

i like that idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
so now for the annoying question. when is the update coming out, hunh, hunh, gotta have the update. come on, hurry up with the update already (in a nasal whiney voice). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I will have most of the list done; for this Friday. This will include most of the Finite Tweaks for the AI’s. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
EDIT: friday March 28, 2003.

However, PTF and I may not be ready with the; AI HW Resource Re-facilitating; in Finite Balanceing, by then though. But we plan at chipping away at that, this week http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 22, 2003, 21:25: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

AI Campaign UPDATE 2.02
~(coming soon)~
==============
With extra Hours on the Job for most of us, and the distractions due to war in Iraq; testing was delayed .

Expected release date will be; this Friday, April 4th 2003.
~

Major rework for the AI in Finite. AI tests out fine for AIC Version 2.02. The AI will go thru a major resource re-facilitating much later in the game now.
I slowed the AI players starting progress a little to give the Human Player a little edge if they are close and to colonize a midway planet before the AI.
Fighters have been revised to the majority of players input.
Base Yard tech has been lowered 50%; as to accelerate your first Base Yard upgrade.
OutPosts, Stations and Domes no longer need a Sat Bridge. They now have a small weapon built in, as to encourage the unfriendly AI's to pick them off.

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 05, 2003, 04:11: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

AI Campaign UPDATE 2.02
==================

Included with Upgrade:

Slowed AI Players starting progress.
Large Star Liner added room for Solar Collectors :~ Thanks, Desdinova.
Temporal BSY Tree :~Thanks desdinova
Mining Complex same family upgrade from a mining Colony Facility : ~Thanks, GLV.
Fast Colonizers : ~Thanks GLV
Temporal Base Yards adjusted : ~Thanks GLV.
Space Yard Tech: Early Tech cost lowered: ~Thanks LAN,PTF.
Revised Mining OutPosts and Organic Domes. : ~Thanks LAN
Improved Combat to-hit Sats : ~Thanks LAN
Improved Fighter weapons : ~Thanks LAN
Reduced AI Mega Evil : ~Thanks Oleg
Improved Fighter Shields : ~Thanks Oleg
Turreted Cannons lowered and only targets Fighters now :~ Thanks, Oleg
AI Tweaks (No Warp Games & Finite) :~ Many thanks to PsychoTechFreak for Time, Effort and Help with SE4batch tester.
Major Balance Tweaks for Finite play :~Thanks PsychoTechFreak,GLV,LAN
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DOWNLOADS

AIC Version 2.02 files only . (size 224kb)Updates ALL AIC Versions. (Will break existing games)

~

Note: PATCH v2.02p (size 225kb) is for v2.01 only.
The top line in the Components File should read AIC v2.01, and not followed by a p; see example below http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~
If you just patched the original release (check top line in the Components File AIC v2.01p) , then this patch may break current game in progress.
With either patch, when your game is finished it is recommended you update AI Campaign with the AIC Version 2.02 files only download. (size 224kb)

Enjoy

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 05, 2003, 15:55: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Errr, planet yards need to be improved, that's what I was complaining about, not Spacestation yards. The first facility on a planet has to be a yard, because you have downgraded the population modifiers extremely against proportions modifiers. But it still takes about 45 turns until you get the first small production rate bonus from the planet yard.
Another observation: Race setup has repair ability of 80%, 2 orbital SYs over the homeplanet (planet yard with "can repair 1 component per turn", usually works with 80% also...). I upgraded both orbital SYs in the same turn, but they get no repairs in the following turns -> scrrrrraaaaappppp !

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Planet Space Yards Facilities have the same Production as base se4 and most mods plus AIC Yards come with a Resupply depot, which comes in handy when you need to retrofit engines at a Colony as well as free up a space for another facility.

In regards to Pop Modifiers as it relates to SY productions you get your first bonus with about a population of 5 or 6; then it scales upward from there. Basically not as liberal as base se4 but much less constringent then some other mods.
This should represent the time it takes to settle a Colony when under pop, however we encourage the employment of Starliners to transport Population to 5 or 10 or even more pop for a good planet. Starliners are the key to bring the Population levels up. Please refer to the AIC readme file.
Starliners are very inexpensive, quick to build and do this Pop Transportation task rather well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~
In regards to repair; On Base Repair Components are unchanged from base se4… However BSY's and Yard Facility was set to 1 from 3 repair per Yard do to the fact that this mod enjoys Plate armor and most may no longer need to repair several armor Components, on any single ship, as in base se4 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I suggest for those who choose to lower there repair characteristics for the benefit of others or choose a culture that has a poor repair ability but better in others; then Repair Base Station that repairs 9 components per turn may be a good course of action also one that should be considered prior to a major retro-fits, in any case http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Their is also a System Maintenance Facility that repairs 6 components and that affords a 5% maintenance bonus for that system. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 08, 2003, 15:52: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

base spaceyards. thanks for seperating the temporal from the regular ones.
i realize this is probably going to be considered a cheat but if you take a battlestation and put 1 spaceyard and 3 repair units the maintenance cost actually becomes a negative amount. i use three repair units since they can repair 1 ship in 1 turn in most cases. discovered when i started running out of minerals that mtc cost negative. if you put on 2 or less repair units the mtc is positive. i have not actually checked to see if the negative amount is added back into reserves or not though.

edit starliners: can you make them small, medium, and large? basically add a larger one that can carry 3 million people. i have started using the large transport and that actually lets me carry 3 million people and gives better movement, upto 9 spaces as opposed to 4 with lrg starliner and quantum engines and gravitic drive. also may want to make population life support max of 3 instead of 2 as the large xport requires 3 ls thus i am using 2 pop ls and 1 normal ls.

edit 2: forgot which component, not a home, family is 19, one of them is misnumbered as family 17 at around level 6 iirc.

[ April 08, 2003, 03:11: Message edited by: desdinova ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Originally posted by desdinova:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks, the modifier on the repair bays will be removed and I will reduce their cost appropriately.

This will also reduce the building time for a Base Repair Stations, substantially http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PTF, has a good point in respects to lowered Repair Char. This will be a fair resolution to his post. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Raising Star Liner Cargo Storage may allow hauling cargo to the front too inexpensive.
All Transports at the right Cargo Tech, may already make for fast Transportation of Population and Equipment, as you illustrated above.
=
Thanks Desdinova, this feedback is greatly appreciated, the changes will be made. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 08, 2003, 21:41: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

at home now. the component is ECM XII should be family 19 but is listed as family 17.

edit. found out why mtc cost is a negative.
crystalline rstructuring plant at lvl 6. -30%
starbase is listed as -50% but is discounted -75%
repair bays are -5% each and i have 3 of them.
racial bonus of 10% on mtc costs.

i think if you were to change the mtc cost of the starbase itself instead of dropping the ability from the repairbays it would be better. i would think that the repair bays would help reduce mtc costs.

[ April 08, 2003, 19:50: Message edited by: desdinova ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Yeah, there are more description type-Os, that need fixing, Q-Brigid is helping us with this.

I removed the Base Repair Bay component; Maint Modifier and reduced the Cost back to basic se4, this resolves the maintenance stacking issue we had with the Yard and the Repair Bay.
I tested it and that works fine again.

This also reduces the build time for the Human Player for forward Repair Base Stations back to normal, something I did not originally want for AI Balance, but it will also address PTF’s scenario some what..

Thanks on ECM VII, it will be resolved.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 08, 2003, 21:48: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

also i just noticed that temporal spaceyard facilities do not have supply generation whereas the normal ones do. no wonder my colonies cant refeul the ships but my homeworld can. it is still using the regular spaceyard but after i gained temporal spaceyards all of my colonies started being built with temporal spaceyards. time to build spacedocks.

[ April 09, 2003, 03:02: Message edited by: desdinova ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I did not test the Temporals. I spoke with Steve here in our LAN group, who plays and tested the Temporals and he thought Temporal Space yards were Power Full enough.

(afterthought) Steve also adds, the Population to support a Temporal yards production and the Time to build at Colonies would be a very large investment and Homeworld only was the most logical. Also by the time you reached temporal yards, a City (space dock included) may be built at almost the same cost.

Also by adding a Resupply Depot to the Temporal Yard this would add more cost; on an allready long build.

What are your thoughts on this?

[ April 09, 2003, 18:11: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

AIC Supply and Resupply

All Cultural Centers on the Home World as well as Cities on up; all have an inherent Space Dock for resupply.

TIP: The Space Dock and Distribution Center on the Home World are expendable Facilities and can be scraped for any other facility of your chosen. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Some Examples are:
Early Trade Center
Resources and/or Research Production facilities
Combat Command Center
Maintenance Facility
System Ship or Resource Scanner
Computer facilities
Planet Engineering facilities
Racial facilities
Many more.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 09, 2003, 17:12: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

it takes about 3-5 years to build a temporal spaceyard depending on how many starliners i have going to a planet to increase population. i agree that the increased production and repair capabilities do make up for the resupply. i have no problem with building spacedocks or cities.
i just thought it was funny that i had just figured out why my colonies were not resupplying my ships, after all this has been out for a while now.

edit: regarding the starbase mtc costs. i was thinking that instead of removing the mtc reduction of the repair bays just reducing the mtc bonus of the starbase from the 75% it is back to the 50% the description gives. PTF was talking about the planet based yards not the ship/base yards in his message i believe. i kinda agree that the planet based yards should have a higher repair ability than just one. but then again you do have the system mtc facility that offers a repair of 6. it just takes time to get to it in research.

[ April 09, 2003, 20:00: Message edited by: desdinova ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Actually, I don't think there is any balance issue if we add one, Steve’s main concerns was the added cost of the depot…

I think the Resupply Depot should go on, but I rarely play Temporal. What would you say?

[ April 09, 2003, 20:02: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

it doesnt bother me either way. the spacedock and other facilities are things i will eventually put on anyway because of their other abilities. to me a ship would refeul at a spaceport more often than a repair/spaceyard facility though. at least thats were we would go in traveller and star frontiers.

edit: as much as i like all in wonder facilities i dont think that it is necessary to add it. makes the players have to make choices, and that is part of the fun.

edit2: regarding organic races. any chance of making comparable component for them but requiring organics instead of mineral. i tend to play temporal and organic with the occasional crystal thrown from time to time. i would be glad to help with this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 09, 2003, 20:11: Message edited by: desdinova ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, on the time involved to build yards and the way the Repair Base Stations is now.
In the next upgrade Base Repair bays will be at se4 default and then much faster to build.
~
The premise for lowering the repair ability on Planet Yards are 4 fold.

1: AI does not use repair well; evens things out a-bit.
2: Encourages building base Repair station at home.
3: Increases the Human Players options and choices in the forward Colonies.
Example: Planet Yard, now do I go with a BSY or RBS.
4: Low Repair Char. Is no longer a give-me.

[ April 09, 2003, 20:18: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

in one of my present games i am cheating. i made the racial abilities cost 0 and have selected all the racial abilities plus emotionless, but have not increased any of the abilities so they are all at 100%. i am doing this to see how all the different techs work without having to start new games. it takes forever to research all the racial techs but it is giving me a better understanding of how everything compares. normally i just read the text files but thig gives me a much better feel for the components and facilities. it has shown me that other than the weapons and armor that there is not much for organic races.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Originally posted by desdinova:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed,
What do I build in this new System first:

Space Port, then upgrade to Distrubution Center
Resupply Depot then upgrade to Space Dock
Resupply Base for protection
Space Yard with resupply depot
Colonial Comunity
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The AI has a problem keeping up with Organics as it is. How do you feel about an increased burden of added Organic maintenance; as a Human Player?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Absolutely http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif , the LAN group is off playing Sahara’s Creasers like, China game now.
So little help from them at this point.

[ April 09, 2003, 20:47: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

*************
Agreed, on the time involved to build yards and the way the Repair Base Stations is now.
In the next upgrade Base Repair bays will be at se4 default and then much faster to build.
*************
i actually like the mtc reduction of the repair bays thats why i suggested reducing the mtc bonus on the starbase itself instead of removing it from the repair bay. i am not overly concerned about the time to build a station as it would take several years to build one that far away from home. and the only time it really takes forever is if you are building a base spaceyard whichs adds about 1.5 yeas, the repair bays add only 8 turns each with one. most of the starbases i build are for defense and only have 1 repair bay and lots of weapons. the spacedock is usually around a planet and there i get the extra build bonus of the planet to help reduce the time.

edit: look at how long it took them to build the babylon stations.

[ April 09, 2003, 20:29: Message edited by: desdinova ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

guess i am into this mainly as a way to play sci-fi shows and games than just to defeat the other races. i guess i am influenced more from all the years spent in scifi and fantasy rpg and tv shows that most people in this.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I am a slow typest, I just finished my Last Post, while you place two http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Lets Play test Bases it at -50% and see. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I will start my next game with it after I finish this fighters test.

[ April 09, 2003, 20:37: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

i dont mind the increase. since you have a cultural center for the other racial traits then we can try to make one for the organic that will help offset this increase.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

i have to get ready for work. i will load the 2.02 onto laptop and see what i can do tonight. hopefully we wont be as busy as we were Last week, so i can give you some feedback.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok, then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Lets give an Organic Base Yard and -50% Bases a test in our next game.

Do you think the Organic BSY should get a small bonus on Organic Production?
And this all should be just available for the Human Player, what would you say?

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Great, THANKS http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Interesting, let us know how you make out.

[ April 09, 2003, 21:11: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Organics Parasite Missile is a great weapon in the opening to mid game, and considering it upgrades in conjunction with other Organic Weapons this should be considered as a powerful strength for that dual attack option.

I always felt the Crystals had the edge, with the Primary Racial Choice.
Now with Plate Armor, they may have a little more added to that advantage.

I don’t know if we should add any thing to the Organics, but perhaps reduces some others for Balance.
For example, max out the Crystallines Restructuring Plant at 20% instead of the 30%.

[ April 09, 2003, 21:14: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Desdinova.

I sent you an EMAIL beta Copy of an alternative for the Repair Base Station.

What do you think?

John.

[ April 10, 2003, 16:14: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

just downloaded. will look at them. we have several people on vacation this week so work is busy. will see what i can do b4 and after work though.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

i am using the 2.02 rules, not the ones you just sent me, on this. there are no crystalline restructuring plants or system mtc facilities
total starbase cost: m: 59020 o: 16920 r: 9450

starbase mtc is 75% mtc bonus
repair bays with mtc bonus: m: -2407 o: -690 r: -385
repair bays with no bonus: m: 3611 0: 1035 r: 578

starbase mtc is 50% mtc bonus
repair bays with mtc bonus: m: 7625 o: 2185 r: 1220
repair bays with no bonus: m: 14kt o: 3911 r: 2184

this was done in one of my games, however it was one i which i was playing with huge fleets so i had increased mtc bonus for race to 30% so i could afford to maintain larger fleets. (edit: which is the same as having crystalline restructuring plant lvl 6 anyway)

just reducing the mtc bonus to 50% is enough to keep the cost from going negative.
i realize that part of the reason for going back to the original repair bays was to lower cost, thus making it faster to create starbases on the frontier, plus i think you also increased the component repaired amts when went back to original so wouldnt need 3 repair bays. but i still prefer having the bonus added to the component myself.

edit. im wrong you did not increase the # of components repaired so i would still be putting 3 repair bays on starbase. but you did increase the mtc bonus of the starbase to 77%. hmmm, let me try from scratch with the mod you did.

[ April 10, 2003, 20:09: Message edited by: desdinova ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Actually, we are resolving the way of increased Frontier Base construction time with the need to keep the net maintenance relatively low.
~
The files I sent you should not allow for stacking of the Base Repair Bay MTC any longer and should be more in line with NET Maintenance.

The combined Maintenance reduction on a Base Battle Station with both a Ship yard and a Repair Station Component makes sense, since the two will Complement each other with the joint operations of a Large Maintenance Base.

I also staggered structure kt (armor effect) upward thru the levels on all Construction Components; to represent the on-going repair in battle.

I added Minus Offence and Defense to all Base Ship Yards and Repair Base Station as to limit there exploitation. What would you suggest the figures be, this is an example.

What are your thoughts on all this?

[ April 10, 2003, 22:16: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Large Maintenance Base Results

With no other Modifiers all Resources are a positive. I did not test with MTC Planet Facilities, but this looks good so far.

Basic BSY on a Space Station Hull, with:

Level 1 SY = m:960 o:97 r:75
Level 1 Repair Bay = 1280.90.50
~
*Large Maintenance Base on a Battle Station Hull, with:

Level 1 SY and Level 1 Repair Bay = 1188.81.67
Level 3 SY and Level 3 Repair Bay = 1694.101.108
Level 5 SY and Level 3 Repair Bay = 1710.97.127

*Note: There is still 550kt of room on the Large Maintenance Base, to fill with Defenses etc. So the Maintenance will go up on this design if a Player wants to add some extras.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

"I also staggered structure kt (armor effect) upward thru the levels on all Construction Components; to represent the on-going repair in battle."

You probably already realize this, but that also makes it more likely to be hit in combat (due to its higher hitpoints). Depending on where it falls in comparison to other components, it might not alter the combat survival chances of this component.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's true. The other end of the extreme shows it, basic life support components in proportions have 1kT structure and they almost never get a hit (cheap and hard to be hit). But I have seen it is 10kT in AIC now, good.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Desdinova and I are attempting alternate ways to redesign Base Yards and Repair stations. Desdinova is coming up with some real good and innovated ideas http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, I would think that the Construction Components for bases should stand alone; this will afford them a little more protection.
The additions of many extra weapons or to many defenses will and should slow the construction time down and raise the Bases overall maintenance cost.
~~

Krsqk,
Do you think there may be a way we could design a DAMAGE CONTROL COMPONANT, that would be a cross between or incorporating both a low value Shield Modifier and Ablative armor, at a reasonable tonnage kt? That would be a optional but a critical ship install and this component would be gained thru Repair Tech?

What would you say?

[ April 11, 2003, 14:35: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">More thought has to be done here, thou, and we should go over all Component structures for the next AIC Update.

PTF, what are your thoughts about us miniaturizing the hardened life support level to 5kt in both tonnage and structure, or just put it to 9kt in structure?
While leaving the structure of basic LS at 11, and LS at 10 as is, for AIC v2.03.

[ April 11, 2003, 14:38: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

regarding the increased size making it more likely to be hit. i have noticed that with the armored structure components in the mod that the armored structures tend to get hit more often once armor has been breached since they tend to be 100+kt in structure while only taking up 10 kt in space. the exception is with the shipyards, as they tend to be the largest components on bases and ships. plus with the armored structures ability to shrug off x amount of damage (based on level) they have become an integral part of all my ship and base designs. they are well worth the minerals necessary to build them in my opinion. edit: which makes sense as the ships/bases structure should take most of the damage before components do. but once that structure is damaged/destroyed then it doesnt take long for the rest to be destroyed.

[ April 11, 2003, 19:05: Message edited by: desdinova ]