Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

Ich werd' bekloppt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

1st test results:

SE4 verursachte einen Fehler durch eine ungültige Seite
in Modul WINMM.DLL bei 015f:bfe18e6c.
Register:
EAX=00000000 CS=015f EIP=bfe18e6c EFLGS=00010206
EBX=83206118 SS=0167 ESP=01abfedc EBP=01abff0c
ECX=d43df5a0 DS=0167 ESI=83105ff8 FS=3a9f
EDX=8310501c ES=0167 EDI=832060ac GS=0000
Bytes bei CS:EIP:
c7 46 40 00 00 00 00 33 c0 5f 5e c2 08 00 53 56
Stapelwerte:
d480ef90 83105ff8 bfe18f45 83105ff8 832060ac bfe13522 bfe138e6 832060ac 000003bd 83105ff8 83106040 00000000 01abff6c bfe13544 832060ac 000003bd

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Duhh, I know. It happens every time Krill builds Ringworld http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

This looks better, 10 planet start, high bonus, low research costs, after 40 years tech tree is completely researched, resources in treasury is at maximum:

Cryslonite 1st place, 114 planets, 18 systems, good planet development, seen a planet with 3 arcologies, some monoliths, complexes. But a few weird things also: military installations and refining colonies build a lot of space port+resupply depots (e.g. 11 of them + a few distribution centers). Net min resources per turn: approx. 4 million, impossible to use up.

Krill 3rd place, 36 planets, 6 systems, planets with multiple distribution centers and SP+RD also, but they seem to avoid building cities, I do not see even one minor city.

Piundon Last place, 1 system, 1 WP has been opened to an asteroid belt. Planet development looks normal, 1 distribution center, 1 SP+RD, a megalopolis or metropolis, rest research complexes or similar.

UkraTal 2nd place, 9 systems, 48 planets. One or two planets with multiple depots, SP+RDs.

Now it's about to find a compromise where the AI does not run out of resources. For me it looks like the AI seems to stop almost everything when it is lacking resources, could it be true?

JLS' AICampaign looks interesting for another attempt of no-WP-connected. If the AIs even do their job under finite resources...

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Are you testing AI campaign with DOS batch program. Are you testing it in Finite Mode?
You do know Finite play for the AI may not be represented well with this dos test, do to the fact that it is Balanced against a Human Players growth, as it relates with resource value depletion. (basically saying) not AI vs AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Do you understand, how the AI is helped in Finite Play with the Finite MOD.
Finite Mod: has been in use for several months now with AIC and works very well for the AI against multiple Human players http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Do you enjoy Finite play your self?

AI opens warp Points, creates planets from asteroids and constructs the desired colonizers etc; as well as a balanced research program in a not connected state. ~Already; at its release! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Important note for your test: Eee (science race) is the race currently specializing in many advanced Stellar task in AIC.

Thank you for your

Input. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

If you have positive suggestions that can make AI Campaign better, we would greatly appreciate this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif PsychoTechFreak

[ March 08, 2003, 18:51: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No to both questions. All I have done so far is, I have downloaded 2.01 a few days ago and I read through the interesting AIC thread. I understand the AI tests more as a search for a challenging setup for WP not connected solo play.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have to say no, not really. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif But maybe I am going to understand more after some tests. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A big YES ! I like setups and mods which are as close to reality as possible, that is why I am looking for a good setup with a long time isolated in or near the home systems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

What do you recommend for a finite resource + no WP connected game? Or do you think it would be too much? 3 rich planets start at least, I think.
The EEE will be part of the 1st test that I cannot await now anymore...

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

Actually, the allot of the research files has been a work in progress for AIC of the past year, with priority changes and all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

What races do you think should excel in Stellar Manipulation?
All

Some

or Just science race?

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif Sorry one up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

[ March 08, 2003, 20:21: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">posted by JLS:
~~~
Actually no warp and finite, seems it might be very unreasonable for the human Player… Human won’t have a chance, not even slight. Against this AI in AIC; with this setting. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

I guarantee you; this AI will do it with [one planet] default set up ; and this AI will do fine in No warp, Finite !!!! no need for extra starting planets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

AI warp break out will be Eee first followed by the order of there
Intelligence (Research value)

Suggestion, only one data change for me, in your test if you would!!!!

[\AICampaign\Data] Settings.txt
Back up before change!

Please change below settings:

Minimum Computer Player High Setting := 12
Maximum Computer Player High Setting := 13
Minimum Neutral Player High Setting := 6
Maximum Neutral Player High Setting := 7

This will insure the largest amount of AI participants in your test….

If uncomfortable with changing file, I will upload?

Start your no warp, Finite; AI test game with
Number Computer Players= {HIGH}

[ March 09, 2003, 02:25: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Science races should excel in SM, but the others should not be restricted or too poor in it. Maybe I am wrong, but to me it looks like the most AIs have been programmed to poor SM usage because of the danger to run out of resources due to maintenance costs.

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No problem, I am familiar with the files. I will follow your suggestions and am looking forward to the results.

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No problem, I am familiar with the files. I will follow your suggestions and am looking forward to the results.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Great!!!

I can't wait to see your results....

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

[quote]Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

Quote:

Originally posted by JLS: [qb] What races do you think should excel in Stellar Manipulation?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">AI Campaign Deals with this issue very well,
now the only limits are the imagination of you and I. Restricted only by base SE4 capability Rules.

The challenge now is to keep a balance so the AI won’t be overbearing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ March 08, 2003, 21:36: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

Another request for your test:

Please use default 12 galaxies map

Always click finite on before RE-generating a map!
This for all se4 Finite games other wise all planets may have 1k resource.

Large map will also insure the most AI participants in your test

Thanks, again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 08, 2003, 20:57: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is weird !!! They all use basically the same AI_planet_selection file. It just does not look right http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif There should not be much difference in colony development by those races !! The multiple spaceports/distribution centers - are they on the same planet or on different planets in the same system ? If the later - it is the unavoidable Proportions problem. Here is why: When you specify colony type it will be used either in home system or in a new one. Thus, you must somehow include "space port" ability in every planet building queu (you don't know what type will be selected in the first planet in a new system ! Now, the catch is that Cultural ceneter has the "space port" ability. If you list "space port" in, for example "mining colony", AI will try to build Cultural center on every such planet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Hence, space ports have bogus ability for AI sake. Unfortunately, when AI utilize this ability, it overlooks preexisting structures in Homeworld. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif It does result in complete mess if AI colonise faster then it builds new spaceports. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I don't know how to solve it.
_________

Why don't you use "not warp points connected" , large galaxy and cluster type for your game ? It should produce nice small unconnected clusters - ideal for development before serious action ! Ai should behave better too I think

[ March 09, 2003, 02:04: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They are on the same planet, I have seen some with 12 distribution centers. The distribution centers somehow even make sense because of the empire cargo abilities, but the multiple SP+RD...?
I am going to do some SE4Batch simulations to adjust the necessary AI bonus settings. If I find an example of a late status of a simulated game, I could send a savegame to you to observe. The savegame from the 400 year test has been done with modifications to the racial traits, I am afraid it can just be used together with my modifications.

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS, I am going to try my best, but there are a couple of problems which could have to do with my 400Mhz steam PC or with SE4batch (from Master B.). A setup with max players has not worked, it has stucked/crashed within the first 2 turns. I will try again at my laptop which is faster and more stable.

So far I have done a 100 year test with the Eee and Cue Cappa. Weird, the Eee have not opened WPs although they have the necessary SM techs. OTOH the Cue Cappa open a lot of WPs. And I have seen now what you have done to balance the AI expensive components and facilities http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
If you are interested, I could send you a zip with backups taken every 5 years (about 3.5 Mbytes).

AIC contains a lot of ideas that I like, especially about the colonizers, starliners and SY ships. But I also miss some of the nice cities of the origin, like metropolis, megalopolis etc. and the huge amount of cargo stocks in cultural centers and the time it takes to build them. But I need some more long term experience with AIC before I get a better picture of it.

Finite resources http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif : I have seen the AI scrapping their homeworlds when the unavoidable 0 of minerals has been reached after about 20 years. It is not that big deal, because of the lower costs of AI cultural centers, but ...

What if cultural centers would have value improvement abilities, maybe just for minerals? Two possible ways:
1) Either 2 or 3% (stacking), so the home world would never run out of resources
2) Difficult, balanced with starting resources in a way that the depletion is slightly below break even point.

I know it is not possible without changing back the facilities.txt if you play without finite resources. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I never saw it before. Very strange. It simply should not happen ! What is the colony type ? There might be some mistake in AI file or in Facilities.txt file.

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

--------------

Thank you for Suggesting the test for AIC in no warp, none finite. PsychoTechFreak. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I am sure allot of this information exchange, may be of use to all.
I am curious on:
What map did you use?
The Large map, that was just an optional request for this test here, not a new test request.
Did you regenerate for a good map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for the info on the Eee, I will make some tweaks.
How did the Cue Cappa colonize? I assume they have many planets?
~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Definitely, please send me the zip file http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree with you. However when we were testing with the LAN group the questions arose that in the 'origin', with so many City upgrades, that by the time a human would get to the Megalopolis; in some games, the game may be near over or ended before.
With this in mind the AIC system is a progressive evolution from a early settlement to a vast Colonial Cultural Center.
AIC currantly has Colonial Community, City, Arcology, Colonial Cultural Center.
Certainly more can be added if the majarity wishs.

You could not see this in the DOS test,
but I also added: A refining family as well. Refining Community, Refining Society and Refining Center.
To complement the Agrarian Facility group.
With some neat new Images. Check it out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I also was able to add Race Specific Construction. For example: Crystal Construction that allows the Crystals or what ever race to have some individual Culture Centers from the start. As well as much more options opened now for future upgrades. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">We felt that ‘Huge amounts of cargo stocks’ takes away from the challenge of having to Balance an economy... Also new in AIC for example Mining out Posts, Organic Domes and Refining stations that are easy to build and setup on an Astroide or planet, not to mention Trade Centers and a few others to boot.
Resources storage in AIC is increased the same way base SE4 is, by building Storage facilities, with a further incentive of building Urban Centers; that also add Empire Storages as well as research, Min,org and rad resources generation, plus intrinsic and cumulative Imperial trade, intel, etc.~. These are definitely worth building!!!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do you feel that it is to long in AIC to build cultural centers? Actually it may be 20% faster then the 'origin'. And about a 75% faster for a Colony Cultural Center if it had to start from scratch as it is with 'origin'. If the Colony Cultural Center progressively upgrades from the Arcology, it is even faster to construct http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I hope you do get a chance to boot up AI Campaign, I would apreaciate all the feed back I can get. And I think you will enjoy it.
My Email address is above or at my site below.
~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In regards to scraping ships or Base Yards !
How many Planets, ships and bases and units did each have???
The AI had to have allot of ship, or the AI would not have scraped anything!
And this is good, right. In a one planet, no warp, Finite Game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

How many units and what make up was on there home worlds?
~~~~
I can program this AI to have (THOUSANDS+) of the Highest level Base Ships and Dreadnoughts (any ship or base) with out the AI Blinking in regards to Maintenance and they wont scrap anything in AIC.

I can prepare a test file on the above for you to see for yourself and post. I will have it for you tomorrow… OK?
But this is not necessary all you have to do is check out the vehicle Data file and search the AI balance Techs. With this I can set the AI to Pay no Maintenance on any ship we want, and they will never scrap anything.

But what would that do for play balance against Human players… The best way to keep the AI Players that are lucky enough to Colonize a lot of planets, in check; is Maintenance other wise the Human Player would have NO chance. Not to mention AI's with only a few planets by bad start being gobbled by large prolific AIs.
After you check out the Vehicle file, and understand, let us know with a Post what you think… Please !!!

In regards to scraping in itself, this is no big deal (like growing pains for the AI), even if/when the AI scraps some Base Yards or some lower prioritized ships, do to a better researched tech retrofits (as it relates to total increased maintenance) he will just rebuild (better ships then) what he scraped; when he upgrades resources facilities, colonize new planets etc…. As a human would! Well some humans may scrap most just(mothball)
~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good question (Planet Value improvement) abilities, this has been mentioned a few times by players, matter a fact Oleg form you Last test mention this.
Think about this, if this was ON a AI Cultural center, that planet Value would sky Rocket, true. and if captured by a human player in a multiplayer game, the game would now be way unbalanced for all other human players.
If this is installed to benefit system colonies then ROCK AI could rule to the Prolific nature of rock planets se4.
As you will see in the Vehicle Data file, this facility will be unnecessary any way for the AI!

Now with this said, in all the AIC games I and many others have played, the AI makes hundreds of ships!!! As we all will see when you post the total ships and there make up in your DOS test. Then they scrap ships as there Components techs increases to a lower amount but with much more potent ships.

How ever, if you think the AI should get more ships in this One planet, No warp, Finite game test. Let me know and I can give the AI any number of ships form 1 to 200000 thru the Vehicle data file, under AI Balance. But remember, a human will have the same disadvantages in one Planet, on warp, finite, what situation would he/she be in, when/if opened warp in 10 or 20 years and what would you want the AI to look like. Do you have that 20 Year AI ship count for Cue Cappa and Eee!!!. The AI may be more balanced then you think at that 20 year mark, in a one Planet, no warp, finite http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If I understand your statement correctly:
This is regards to Finite: There must be a depletion, if there was none, then if captured by a human player with CCs in tact that Human player will have a planet that never depletes. Giving that human a great advantage over another in Multiplayer games.

Note: All specific resource generation is intrinsic and cumulative when Finite off. As it states in the read me file!
--------
Thank you for the heads up on the Eee, and I look forward to the test save game; you may Email to the Address below and we look forward to seeing the Post on 20 year Ship/base counts and makeup DD, CV, BB etc and Home World unit counts as well… Or I can post from the save if you like.

Thank you very much for the effort you put into this test… I look forward to Tweaking the Eee as per you recommendations…

In regards to tweaking this AI. Approximately, how many turns do you think would elapse for a human to achieve enough warp to exit his one system. In one planet, no warp, Finite game? Do you think I should target this AI to achieve warp before or after the human achieves his goals as well as warp?

Also is it possible for a human Player; to deplete his planets of resources prior to receiving warp tech in a one system, no warp, FINITE game.

John.

[ March 10, 2003, 08:14: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I never saw it before. Very strange. It simply should not happen ! What is the colony type ? There might be some mistake in AI file or in Facilities.txt file.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This morning I have stopped a simulation with your some 8 AIs after 92 years. It took about 10 hours (JLS, I guess we need to test max. 2-3 AIs at a time to get some reasonable longterm data, I have not yet got it started on my laptop, it is a winXP problem. And I will reply to your to your long reply, but I need some time for it).

I have just taken extensive looks over the planets and I have not yet seen the phenomenon above any more, but maybe it is a kind of interim thing somewhere around 50 years.
Setup was: unmodded proportions 2.5.3.1, SE4 Gold patch 3, 1 planet (good/rich) start, low bonus, no WP connected, infinite resources. Backup taken every 5 years.
With this setup the AI did not run out of resources, I need to find a slightly lower bonus setup somewhere at the threshold between rich and poor...

I am not sure if I can take a deeper look into the sim files tonight, I will not be at home before 10:30 p.m.

The zip is 5.7 Mbyte and I have it taken (burned on CD) to my office. Do you want me to send it to your attention, oleg? Be honest, please... if you do not find the time, I will observe the files tomorrow (latest).

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

I think I know what happend when one AI build 15 resupply depots on one planet ! In fact, it is quite funny:

As posted before, Proportions' AI can not use "spaceport" and "resupply depot" abilities to select buildings - it will start to buils Cultural centers everywhere. Insted, it uses "emergency energy" as a codename for "spaceport" and "emergency resupply" for "supply depot". Only spaceports and resupply depots have these bogus abilities. But buildings under "large support facilities" do not have these bogus abilities ! It was PvL# idea and I'll talk about it later. AI is not suppose to "know" about "large support facilities" - There is no such entry in any AI research files. So normally AI build spaceports/resupply depots without any problems. Now, suppose AI find "large support facilities" tech. in ruins, steal from humman player or somehow else. Now, when it builds Spaceport/Resupply depot, it can UPGRADE them to better buildings, but after the upgrade buildings LOSE bogus abilities. AI is still instructed by construction_facilities file to build buildings with "emergency energy" and "emergency resupply". Thus, it builds new one, upgrade, build... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

If Pvk restores bogus abilities to "large support facilities" this problem would never arise ! And there is no danger AI will build expensive facilities - it stilll can not research "large support facilities" tech !

Actually, this build-upgrade loop can be used for AI benefits - what if we assign some bogus ability to minor cities only and use it in AI files ? Even after AI discovers large cities, it will always build minor cities first and then upgrade http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Exactly what we, humans do in Proportions games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">_______________________

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Great, I can't wait to Download them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

" Based on 255 "?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif You have made other changes in the setting files?
~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Excerpt from AIC readme, as well as previous post.
Always click finite on before RE-generating a map! Otherwise ALL planets may have 1k of resorces!
There by possibly corrupting game planet values at start!
~~~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The game will start with about 50% of the general Cultural Centers and then mix the remaining with your racial choices, in AIC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Temporal CC gives you a little extra Research, so you will have more of Temporal, then Agrarian CC's, in the Last 50% of starting Cultural Centers

I have Religious Construction set up in AIC, but no Religious Cultural Centers as of now, do you or anyone have any suggestions for a Religious Cultural Center so I may add this to the next upgrade !!!
~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As would, any start from a se4 game in finite play)…
With ‘origin’ in finite however; you would loose all resources in a few years at the Home World, is this not true! Hence, one would not be able to continue a finite game with the ‘origin’

You also have Imperial Trade in AIC, This more then makes up for any wasted surplus in the (first two years) until your 2nd or 3rd colonizer is in the air, when you start a resource deficit . The Trade Center will also help in regards to wasting resources by trading for needed recourses, don’t you agree?
~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thank you, I appreciate your interest, you will notice it will take less then 15 years with about 100 to 200 Million people on the planet (in city) to upgrade from a City to an Arcology. This does not seem unreasonable?
~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In regards to ships, that’s ok, that you did not post the amounts and makeup as you did in Olegs tests; by you saying the AI scraped ships, the AI had to have a, good many of them, or he would not of scraped anything. AI methodology in this respect is in my previous post.

You are telling me the AI is scraping planetary facilities? I did not know se4 has this ability of the AI scraping Facilities???
~~~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would prefer you do this, thereby understanding the vehicle Data file, any moder can set the AI to have as many ships or Bases as he/she would like; by circumventing Maintenance restrictions to any level on any ship or base in the AI Balance Mod here in AI Campaign. Although caution is offered, in regards to Balance. You don’t want somebody; to have a 800 turn game go sour, just because an ambitious AI designer gave the AI 400 Dreadnoughts or base ships in the end; just to have the most powerful AI in the universe.
If you or any other players needs a hand with AI Campaign or its Sub-Mods, please let me know, this is a new and different concept for the AI… I will surly help you as best I can.

Regarding the planned 12-galaxies simulation or any tests; maybe should wait to be sure the DOS Batch program is compatible with Non SE 4 Based Data files.
Certainly until I tweaked the AIs research and other files from the results of your Last test. Don’t you agree?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If a human wants an advanced engineering tech (Value Improvement Plant) for his home world he/she can still research it and then build it on the home world, true!

In regards to the AI, I don’t believe the AI scraps any facilities in se4 or AI Campaign after the game starts. Have you tested your DOS batch program before you advanced any turns to be positve that the Facilities are in good order from the start?

With this being true, and the AI does not Scrap facilities, then there may be a flaws in your test or a bug with the DOS program or it only works with BASE se4 Mods. Meaning no disrespect what I am about to say: Your test may not be valid with the tests you have been running for this AIC and Oleg’s AI in his mod.?!?
This flaw can be proven to exist in seconds; by just starting a new game (with out the DOS batch program) with the parameters we discussed. Then checking all facilities and you will notice the Planet and the the CCs on the HomeWorlds are as they should be; as I just did!!!

Poor Oleg, you may have him so concerned, that his AI empire is making weird facilities. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
~
Did you set up the tests with the defaults that we mentioned for the AIC test. One planet, no warp and finite correct, I feel it is possible you strayed from the test parameters that we discussed; from in the startup or other pre file data changes. Is it possible that you added another mod to AIC inadvertently, there by overwriting AICs data files because, Default should have not been Mid Life, it should have been the top map in quad startup menu at setup, and there is no way in AIC; you could get 255 systems, this would break the SE4 map editor. So I have it set at the Optimal setting of about 114 systems, so others may use se4 Map editor in conjunction with AIC!

So with the Above true; in regards to the AI NOT scraping facilities in SE4 and AIC, then there would be no reasons to change anything in AIC or have dual facility text files, for the reasons you stated. What do you think?
~

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, you are right on at 120% research candidate.
So we would want the AI to Appear way after the Human Player (75-100 turns), via warp, and give the Human Player the Advantage here, so he may obtain a good foot hold (And let the AI just try to take it from them), don’t you agree. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
But if the Human Player looses focus on Stellar Manipulation for lets say 75-100 turns in a warp race, then so be it!
~
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I believe all players would deplete the Home World of All recourses in se4 and most/ALL mods currently for Space Empires IV there by causing that game to terminate from lack of resourses with the one system, Finite, with no warp Test. Possably, before warp is achieved. Don't you agree?

However with Finite Mod in AI Campaign: Allows the Human Player to stay in the game and not terminate thru lack of treasury; by use of Imperial Trade.
I believe, what I stated in earlier post to be true!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

[ March 10, 2003, 20:48: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

PsychoTechFreak,

I have not received save file yet?
Were you able to send it.
No hurry, just FYI...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 10, 2003, 18:37: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

JLS and AICampaign answers:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The simulation files that I have sent to your attention have been created from mid-life large, based on 255.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yep. For the next simulation I will use your suggested 12 galaxies with finite resources and regeneration maps until "good". But yet I have to got it to run under XP, I will try a (Master B. suggested) SE4 batch workaround not before late tonight.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have seen some of the neat additions in a recently started solo game. I am curious what happens if I take more than 1 racial trait, maybe organic + temporal, what kind of cultural center do I get in this case? So far I always use religious/organic which results in agrarian cultures of course.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, probably I need some more experience with it. It was just a bit annoying to waste a lot of resources in the finite resources games at the beginning. I definetely need a SE5 feature to shutdown facilities http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif .

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, from the files I have seen that you have made them cheaper. My first thought was about: probably too inexpensive ? But I also need more game play experience with it...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have not observed units or ships, just facilities - extensively I admit. The only issue I have seen is, a few turns after, or probably at the same turn the minerals reach zero point:
All cultural centers have been scrapped, only three facilities remain: SY, and the other 2 I might be wrong: resupply depot and a port or similar. You will see it from the files.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am going to check out the vehicle Data file. If I get a notion of it, I will do some tweaks for the planned 12-galaxies simulation, or you could reply to my e-mail, whatever comes first.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do not misunderstand, I am thinking about every homeplanet (the humans included) could have infinite resources ! I mean, just to circumvent the problem with AI scrapping cultural centers when HP is depleted, from above. I know this would be a problem if you switch back to a game with infinite resources, you would need two different facility.txt files for both types of games, otherwise the value percentages would go up, that is correct.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, I need a better feeling for AIC to provide an assumption of a turn count, give me some time.
If I look at the AI SM component costs, I guess it could be scary to meet the first AI. I think the AI should achieve warp at approx. the same time as the usual human setup, balanced to a let's say 120% research candidate. I mean, if the Eee are set up with 130%, they should warp a bit earlier than a 120% race.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That should be avoided somehow. Value improvement plants, micromanaging, I guess this will be difficult to balance out. Or probably: indepletable home planets by value improving cultural centers.

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

I have sent it to the mail address of your HP about 20 hours ago. Watch out for Thomas_... with a 3MByte attachment. Maybe it takes some time, FBI and CIA are busily observing a lot of combat.trn files nowadays.

EDIT: After about 30 hours I have received the delivery failure report because : Remote system no longer responding. Is your e-mail address at the bottom of your homepage up to date? I try again.

[ March 11, 2003, 13:18: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, not more than this. I like to play maps at max. size, but I will change it back for the discussed simulation. I have not yet found the time to get back to it. The simulation files, that I have sent, have been taken from before our discussion.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am familiar with the issue. I have observed the planets of the first backups also, the homeplanets have been setup correctly (2M/2M/2M or 1M?)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The DOS batch program works on basis of the same procedure as the turns are processed in PBW. It takes SE4.exe to compute the turns and it uses the mod paths that you setup the simulation with, similar to the modpicker program. It is necessary to kickstart a simulation: setup a simultaneous game, perform the first turn as human player with complete AI turned on; the initial setup of the homeplanet looks all right. After the first turn has been saved, you start the batch prg to compute the following turns. Your statement would imply that every PBW game with mods would get into trouble ! I have checked after 15 years, the CCs are on the homeplanets, 20 years: I have got a message like: "the minerals on planet x (homeplanet) have been depleted sire", and the CCs have been scrapped without any other facility projects within the next years. But I will repeat some tests about it. What happens in your tests after the minerals have been depleted ? Do you process under simultaneous and without watching the AI?

[ March 11, 2003, 10:43: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

[quote]Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

Quote:

The DOS batch program works on basis

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If I offended you, in any way; I apologize. I thank you for our discussion, with your help I will be able to tweak the AI as not to be overbearing in a warp race! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
And tone there research etc, so the human will have more of a chance: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

“with [one planet] default set up ; and this AI will do fine in No warp, Finite !!!! no need for extra starting planets.”
~~~~~

In regards to my statement:

“maybe should wait to be sure the DOS Batch program is compatible with Non SE 4 Based Data files.
In regards to the AI, I don’t believe the AI scraps any facilities in se4 or AI Campaign after the game starts. Have you tested your DOS batch program before you advanced any turns to be positve that the Facilities are in good order from the start?
With this being true, and the AI does not Scrap facilities, then there may be a flaws in your test or a bug with the DOS program or it only works with BASE se4 Mods. Meaning no disrespect what I am about to say: Your test may not be valid with the tests you have been running for this AIC and Olegs AI in his mod.?!?
This flaw can be proven to exist in seconds; by just starting a new game (with out the DOS batch program) with the parameters we discussed. Then checking all facilities and you will notice the Planet and the the CCs on the HomeWorlds are as they should be"

I felt your statements warranted this reply, here are your Posts:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">~~~
Actually, I assumed you have had a lot of experience in space empires IV, and would know that a cultural center was a Facility, and that the AI in se4 never scraps Facilities.
I guess I was surprised you would post statements as above in your (Quotes), if, knowing the AI does not scrap facilities.

Unless I am misunderstanding you; and there is another issue?

No matter, it is difficult to express ones self with the written word, and I am no writer, but there is one thing I want you to know: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I appreciate the effort and time you put into this and that a lot of our discussion has helped with AIC. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
In regards to scraping Facilities, I mean...well you know what I mean. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Thank you very much for your assistance PsychoTechFreak http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

John

[ March 11, 2003, 18:06: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

I don't feel offended, I am just annoyed a bit about my lacking time at the moment. I would like to help a lot more, but I can't. Again, I have not yet read all of your post, but I will answer later.

This is what I have digged up now:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The bottom fix now makes some sense to me: It looks like the AI feels the cultural centers become worthless when minerals are depleted, because the CC does not produce any minerals at that time. But I will test it again (without batch program, but I guess it will be the same, at least with our finite setup).

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

All right, I have seen the scrapping of CC facilities now also without batch program.

It looks a bit like a not intended feature, but I need to investigate more about it:

This is what I have done:
-Changed settings.txt to 255 systems max.
-changed plr starting resources high to 2000, so the homeplanet would be depleted after the first turn
-game setup was AIC, large midlife quadrant, 1 good planet start (but with the modded 2000 min start)
-high research, everything researched from the beginning, cos I thought it could be that the AI wants to build something else than a CC

Turn 1: homeplanet depleted, but nothing else within the next turns, CC facilities ok

About one year later (2401.1), I just see the message: scrapped ship xxx, but no message about scrapping facilities, I investigate the homeplanet facilities window and what has happened? Only a spaceyard and a spacedock 2/20 facilities at the homeplanet.

Mmmh, looks a bit weird and could be either intended or a bug, but it obviously has nothing to do with SE4batch.

Anyway, I am going to do some more tests about it before the next simulation.

JLS, I have found another mail address in the mod picker window, when your mod is picked (...@msn.com), should I take this one next time? Or did you receive my files in the meantime?

EDIT:
It is the same with turn based, WPs connected, finite resources, proportions, medium quadrant strands:
Approximately one year after the homeplanet has been depleted, the CC facilities are gone. No message about it also (same as in AICampaign).

JLS, I think we need a workaround for AIC/proportions games with finite resources. I am going to continue some simulations with infinite resources now, because I think it does not make much sense to continue finite resources with these conditions. SE4batch and AI deathmatch#2 computing can be trusted again !

PS: To make it clear, all of the tests above have been done without SE4batch !

[ March 11, 2003, 20:51: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

Ahh, I see what you mean regards to scraping facilities, now!
Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

But that was fixed so long ago.

The solo AIC game I am playing now, is in turn 688; I am in 9th , out of 12 AI Players and 6 Neutrals and 1 independent. (with View all players scores)
I check on a differant AI, about 10 turns, on average, thru out this game, with the AI having constant up and down resource deficits. ALL AI Home Worlds Culture Centers are fine.

I have Grand Lord Vito AIC save game, GVL is in 2nd of his 732 Turn game and all AI Cultural Centers are Fine, in that game as well….
There is one Organic race that went from 2nd to 3rd Place with losses to ships and Planets and ran a {Currant total} resource deficit now for over (allot) of turns; All Cultural Centers are fine for that race.
1rst Place is held by AI Player with 281 Ships and 13 bases has a net per turn of in lowest of +7332 per turn.

Sorry, I don’t know what to say, about your DOS test. Every thing plays fine in regular game play, with ALL types of Culture Centers.

I can send you the Save Game files if, you like?

I guess the Space Empire Patch’s in v1.20 and v1.24 has worked. Is it possible that the DOS Program you are using has data in it that predates the above Patchs? I don’t know, I have not received your Email yet from your test.

~~~~~

How does other MODs stack up to your test, that have similar Urban Centers facilities?

My teen age son and I are currently playing Adamant Mod they have facilities Similar.

Proportions MOD also uses Cultural Facilities that are Similar.

With the same Parameter test, will there Urban Center End up missing? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

[ March 11, 2003, 20:55: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

Read my EDIT below:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">After your homeplanets have been depleted completely (0 minerals) you need to wait about another year, then take a look again ! It looks like a misunderstanding, I am talking about resources depleted on the planet (values on 0kT), not about a lack of AI resources.

[ March 11, 2003, 21:01: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

Great, it looks you may, have found something...
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
If you did, and we fix it. I want your name on this Finite Mod as well!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 11, 2003, 22:37: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

Regarding EMAIL, please use any.

Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

JLS, I have sent an empty test mail to the other (msn.com) address.

You can reply any Eee tweaks to the mail (if you hopefully receive this one).

Are you still interested in the old 100 year simulation? Both (Eee and Cue Cappa) had the mentioned CC scraps after about 30-35 years, so I am not sure if it helps a lot. I better wait for your input first.

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But still!

You haven’t yet posted what the AI has for.
Ships, Bases, Unit and make up is. at turn 20 years?

Or Posted what there Total Empire status is?
Total income versus Expenditures.

Evan with your test, you found them re-facilitating there home world ...

They may still be competitive in your test http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
and are currantly competitive in Finite; with-out one system, no warp start .... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

~~~~~~

But No problem (we can make them better) I have a fix for this thru AI_Construction_Facilities, Home World: Tweaks, but first I need to see your tests…

Good job, PsychoTechFreak http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Now more important then ever. Please, please, Hurry, hurry… http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
send me Both the DOS test and the other no dos test for AIC save.gam with all the files you changed so I won't corrupt that game when I advance turn!

[ March 11, 2003, 23:29: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please, send the one hundred year test...
And any thing you can...
This may be invaluable...

I will have UPS; pick up your hard drive, if you like http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif (Kidding) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I believe we can fix this for all mods that use Finite with CCs... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thanks to your research http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
and the DOS program http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 11, 2003, 22:04: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have not receive any thing yet, but that’s ok, it will come.

The other day, Master Belisarius sent me a huge attachment that was fine thru

CES-Incorp@msn.com

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

I do not get what happens with my e-snails at the moment http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All right, all right, if I do not get my snail-account to do anything tonight, I fear I would have to send the files from my office tomorrow *sigh*.

Here we go:
20 years: I have done a wrong observation before, the CCs have been scrapped later (30-35 years)

Eee: Score 198.6K, Resources 43.8K,Tech levels 69, 2 planets, 1 system, 6487 units, 34 ships, 6 bases
Net mineral resources per turn: 21.8K

Cue Cappa: Score 203.7K, Resources 32.8K,Tech levels 62, 4 planets, 1 system, 10256 units, 50 ships, 3 bases
Net mineral resources per turn: 20K

35 years: CCs have been scrapped

Eee: Have built 4 Communities, 1 planetery shield network III and a central comp. complex II at the HP (SY and Dock still exists)
Score 177K, Resources 17.4K,Tech levels 97, 2 planets, 1 system, 7883 units, 28 ships, 6 bases
Net mineral resources per turn: -1142

Cue Cappa: 1 Community at HP, Score 116.7K, Resources 4.6K,Tech levels 70, 4 planets, 1 system, 25166 units, 34 ships, 3 bases

100 years:
Eee: Have built 5 Communities, 1 planetery shield network III and a central comp. complex III at the HP (SY and Dock still exists, upgraded to level II)
Score 70K, Resources 6K,Tech levels 120, 2 planets, 1 system, 8516 units, 12 ships, 0 bases
Net mineral resources per turn: -348

Cue Cappa: 1 Community at HP,SY III, Dock II, Score 132.1K, Resources 4.5K,Tech levels 95, 6 planets, 3 system, 27935 units, 25 ships, 6 bases
... and they open WPs like mad.

Net mineral resources per turn: -3070

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If I can get it together again, I mean, you know what happens if you do 3 quick tests disregarding any backups of savegames? Anyway I have sent another try of the 100year test first.

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

PsychoTechFreak,

I have your Email but no attachment http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
~~~~
"Other stuff"

You indicated that you made changes to the Settings.Txt…
If you can give me a copy of that file and any other files you may have changed along with the save games, that would be great.

I will put all your files in my AIC folders and load your test, this way there will be no way I can corrupt your data if I advance the turns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

Don't rush, Email http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I am still curious on the ship and unit makeup from your DOS test, when I get the save files I will see that then.

I have the data you posted...This is enough for now, thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

~~~
This can be helped thru AI_Construction_Facilities, Home World: Tweaks .

But I will see if I can stop this altogether thru the Facility data file, first. EDIT: I think it will work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

If anyone, has other ideas please post.
~~~

I will have all the AI updated files to you after I Change and test them for a few days.

Good job, PsychoTechFreak http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ March 12, 2003, 00:03: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ya, I have seen the mess in my output folder. I will upload the stuff from my office PC tomorrow, obviously the problem at home is about bigger attachments.

I will send the settings.txts together with the savegames, I have found one AICampaign test and I will see if I can recover the quick proportions test+ settings.txt. These small attachments hopefully will go out at least.

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

PsychoTechFreak,

The hundred turn, incremental save; also would be invaluable so I can track there progress!
No hurry though this can wait, till you get an opportunity, thanks.

CES-Incorp@msn.com

Did you get a chance to look at the AIC Vehicle data file yet, for AI balance Tech in ship sizes?

With a reduced maintenance on Carriers and Higher end ships; as it will relates to late game increased ship counts for the AI.

In AIC I have did very little tweaks to the high end ships for fear of play balance. I would rather a human Player do well in the end game then sour a 1000 turn game with an unbeatable AI.
It is pretty close to being on, but I will need more player input to raise AI late game ship Count.

[ March 11, 2003, 23:59: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

Owe, one more thing, PsychoTechFreak.

Actually, I assumed you have had a lot of experience in space empires IV http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

You do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thanks.

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, but I have not yet tweaked and experimented with it. And with AI vs. AI simulations I guess it makes not that much sense, because...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed. But SE4batch can not help a lot with this, it is just a very good tool to compare AI vs. AI. So you need to wait upon player input from solo longterm games.
Did you install SE4batch from Master B. already? I highly recommend it, if your SE4 is running under win 95/98.

This one makes me curious now:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Does the AI really make a reasonable use of ACs, does it scrap the ACs when the planet has turned to breathable? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How huge is "huge"? MSN just sends Messages back like this:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am going to cut it down...

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All right, all right, if I do not get my snail-account to do anything tonight, I fear I would have to send the files from my office tomorrow *sigh*.

Here we go:
" "
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Evan with the harsh Parameter, For this test of:
One system, no Warp, Finite
I wonder how a Human Player, would have faired. With the same parameters; and could a human Player get out of his (one system) before depleting his resources while researching enough Stellar Manipulation Tech; to warp out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

What would be the condition of a human player after (Nine thousand, Nine Hundred and Ninety nine) Plus Turns, with your above test Parameters and in Finite game with a default game map and setup, with the intended systems and data. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

How ever the AI in AI Campaign has survived with Income (what was the Cues total income?) and with a fleet for 1000 turns!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
~~~~~
Please, remember the AI is using AI: State Not Connected and would have only a few ships. Did the CueCappa and Eee have contact?
In AIC, most high ship construction occurs when the AI are in Attack or Defense States; and then get to increase there ship count in the AIC Vehicle Construction file when in those states.
~~~~~~


Would it be easier for you to upload to the Forum, this way circumventing our Email wows?; I only require the 100 game turn DOS test and the AIC setting.txt data file that you changed as well as any other possible Data files in AIC that you may have been changed.

Just send me the link, and I can download it from there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

We look forward to the infinite test, Comparable to the tests of other players, AI’s.

[ March 12, 2003, 15:36: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

PsychoTechFreak,
I am getting wierd stuff from you in my Email but no attachments. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
What does:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mean?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Would it be easier for you to upload to the Forum, this way circumventing our Email wows? I only require the complete 100 game turn DOS test and the AIC setting.txt data file that you changed as well as any other possible Data files in AIC that you may have been changed.

Just Email me the link, and I can download it from there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 12, 2003, 15:05: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

Cue Cappa and Eee had no contact, but it looks like they are not far away...

File uploading is not allowed in this forum. I could temporarily abuse the mod forum, but I do not want to get in trouble with our admins.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This means you are receiving now my e-snails from 1.5 days ago. It looks like the 2 parts of the zip file are still underway (assume they will get to you in about 24 hours).

[ March 12, 2003, 15:18: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

[quote]Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Cue Cappa and Eee had no contact, but it looks like they are not far away...

File uploading is not allowed in this forum. I could temporarily abuse the mod forum, but I do not want to get in trouble with our admins.

Quote:

This means you are receiving now my e-snails from 1.5 days ago. It looks like the 2 parts of the zip file are still underway (assume they will get to you in about 24 hours).

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Email info
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">~~~~~
OK, sure I can wait http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

However, I see uploads to the mod forum, all the time to help players and Moders and you are helping with this Mod right?
So what would be the problem? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Thanks, John.

[ March 12, 2003, 15:41: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

JLS, check PM please.

Re: Slow down exploration speed in AICampaign/PROPORTIONS
 

[quote]Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

Quote:

Did you install SE4batch from Master B. already? I highly recommend it, if your SE4 is running under win 95/98.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Does SE4batch from Master B. work with XP.
In the end, I think it is great, for what it has done in your test for AIC; as well as others!