Re: Challenge Match
 

Alamsa is asmala spelled backwards and given a capital "A"
< The Gryphin Gryns >
I do need 100 percent acceptance or indifferance befor I can alter name.

Would folks like a pair of carefuly placed truly dangerous sytems? These might be placed inbetween the two warring factions or off somewhare un important.

[ April 21, 2003, 18:13: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I should have been found that, it's a bit embarrassed!

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would strongly prefer not to have something like this. Score just has such a hinky mechanic in SE4. It's too easily swayed by stuff that has no bearing on actual empire strength. We are all gentlemen. Even without an arbitrary victory condition we can be reasonable and call the game when it becomes clear victory is unatainable. But putting a victory condition on it is a decision which is unchangable once the game starts. If we hit that "magic number" the game is over even if all parties agree we wish to continue. The game will not allow you to disregard it. I have seen it happen and seen it ruin some games that had much life left in them.

Geoschmo

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You're welcome to use my name.

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, it would be an interesting concept to have a team game with no tech or ship swapping. Not sure exactly how that would play out actually. Maybe we should think/talk about it some. But definetly that's one thing that needs decided before the game starts. Personally I don't mind either way.

Geoschmo</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't mind either way either. I will say that I'm more in favor of swapping planets than I am of swapping ships. Exchanging planets seems more natural to me than exchanging ships. Races would naturaly tend to gravitate to planets that were good for them so it seems reasonable to me that several races working together would be willing to hand-off a planet more suited to their ally in exchange for like consideration. Ships seem more of a stretch. Races with perhaps wildy different physiologies, atmospheric requirements, mentalities, and design philosophies would seem ill suited to use each other's ships. But in the final analysis I don't care enough to take a stand one way or the other.

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You may use my name if you wish (but please, no names like "Slynky's Toilet" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

As to dangerous systems? I'd just let the map generator handle it all. But if other players want something like that, I'll let them mention it.

Re: Challenge Match
 

Well, concerning the colony/ship swapping, our side has stated:

Asmala: Prefer not to have it
Slynky: Prefer not to have it
Lord Chane: Don't care

Your side has stated:

geoschmo: Don't care
rextorres: Don't care

In my opinion, then, since no one voted as preferring colony/ship (etc.) swapping, it will not be allowed.

If that's the Last detail to be agreed upon, then I'll post a summary for the game and Gryphin can get started.

[ April 22, 2003, 19:25: Message edited by: Slynky ]

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Again, reallistically speaking, I would tend to disagree. In an alliance, I think countrys (or empires) would tend to give away ships or trade ships much sooner than they would give a colony of their people (and have a colony containing another race given to them). I know if I was a member of a colony that was given to another empire, I'd be a bit upset. (well, of course, unless my leader was Saddam http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

Re: Challenge Match
 

Quadrant:

FQM 1.8 Std
Dense Paradise
Medium size
All warp points connected
Warp points located anywhere

Races:

Racial points 0
Technology level 0
No AI
3 Good starting planets
Starting resources 20,000
Player can view score of allied player

Technology:

All areas allowed
Tech cost medium

Miscellaneous:

No events
No ruins (can ruin the game… http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )
1K ship limit
2K unit limit
All players must take rock/oxygen as planet type/atmosphere
Gifting or trading ships/colonies/units/population is not permitted
Email outside the game permitted

Victory Conditions:

Surrender

So, I guess we're ready to post a game unless somone has a problem with these settings. Gryphin, you da man!

Re: Challenge Match
 

Looks good to me. One thing though. "Medium" as a size for quadrants can vary greatly. Gryphin, I would suggest making sure you have your max systems set to 100 when you generate it. That should give you a medium map in the ballpark of 60 systems, ten per player, 30 per alliance. If you have that set to 255 when you generate, a medium map could endup being a lot bigger than that. Unless you want it bigger that is Slynky.

Geoschmo

Re: Challenge Match
 

Any more input on Quad size?
Currently I have a few maps with around 80 to 90 systems.
Adding and deletting system is easy. In fact, it makes ballencing the starting points easier.

My undestanding is you will be able to tell each other where you are befor you meet and will then send ships to meet. As such Precise placement of starting is helpful but not mission critcal.

Anyone want any special system names?
Anyone object to spcial system names?

[ April 22, 2003, 22:09: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

Re: Challenge Match
 

I tried the default setting for Dense Paradise (after unpacking and installing) and it seemed like a nice size. I don't knwo what the Max Planet setting was, though...it just looked "roomy" enough.

I'm not sure where geo got his figures and approximations, but only 60 inhabitable systems for 6 people seems a bit low. In the Tourney (rd5) game, I have colonies in over 20 systems and only share systems in 2 locations. That seems a bit roomier http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

So, again, it's not that big of a point to me (but knowing ahead DOES affect empire choices). So, please let me know what parameter limit you will be using so I can generate a few test maps on Dense Paradise and see what we're "talking" about.

Re: Challenge Match
 

My Current Understandings:
Quadrant - Dence Paradice - Maximum Number of Systems 100
Events - None
Technology Cost - Medium
Player Settings -
-Starting Resourses - Medium
- 3 Good Planets
- can view scores of allied players
- Technology Level for New Player - Low
- Racial Points - zero
Players
- 2 Teams of 3 each
- No AI
Game Settings
- Max units in space per player - 200,000
- Max ships allowed per player - 100,000

[ April 22, 2003, 23:06: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

Re: Challenge Match
 

:: Delayed Thought ::
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is a zero point game.

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's 1,000 ships and 2,000 units http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

Re: Challenge Match
 

How do i:
With a multi planet start is there any way to force the planets into specific systems?
currently they usualy end spread over 2 or 3.

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I surely don't know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif , but I can say I don't really care if one or two of my planets are in a different system(s).

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Again, reallistically speaking, I would tend to disagree. In an alliance, I think countrys (or empires) would tend to give away ships or trade ships much sooner than they would give a colony of their people (and have a colony containing another race given to them). I know if I was a member of a colony that was given to another empire, I'd be a bit upset. (well, of course, unless my leader was Saddam http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Slynky and I already discussed this off-line so I'm just posting this here for everyone else's edification, assuming anyone is interested in the debate. I'll use an example to illustrate why I said that trading hsips seemed far fetched. Let's say one race is bipedal, two eyes, one brain, breathes oxygen, fairly standard humanoid stock. The second race is wildly different. They have no legs, multiple tentacles that double as an arm or leg depending on the situation, they have no eyes, and operate entirely on a sense of perception, they have a central brain that controls a sub-brain for each appendage thus allowing each appendage to act on it's own, and their natural habitat is is a carbon dioxide atmosphere at three times Earth normal pressure. Yes, I know I've gone a bit to the extreme on the differences, but my point is that races with wildy different physiologies, atmospheric requirements, means of manipulating controls, etc., would be unlikely to swap ships. Tech, yes. Planets, although not colonies in the sense of already developed planetary facilities, yes. Ships, I wouldn't think so. Colony structures, not very likely.

Re: Challenge Match
 

The settings proposed by Slynky are fine by me. Ready to go whenever everyone else is.

Re: Challenge Match
 

Setting aside that SEIV is science ficiton, the Challenge Match has stipulated everyone is Oxygen Rock. Just a wine driven though, what are the chances of that unless they were all from the same origens anyway.

A ship can be gifted and the crew go with it.

A lot of the features of this game are based on play-a-bilty. If one wanted a "real" game I guess i would have to suggest Squad Leader or a well done miniatures game where each move could take an hour per side. Works for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ April 23, 2003, 01:45: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A good point that goes well with what Lord Chane said. (saying that without getting into how different races would integrate in a fleet atmosphere given various forms of communications, predlections toward battle, and other things I won't spend a lot of time listing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

However, for our puposes, we don't have to worry about it since we've agreed it can't be done in this game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

Re: Challenge Match
 

Ok
Slynky and Geo
I'm working on the map.
what is the consensous on the number of systems?

My current understanding for the spread of players is about as many systems behind each team as there are between each teach.

At the moment it is a matter of deleting systems and placeing players.

The step after that will be setting up the game at PBW. I may need some coaching with this part.

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'd say 100 at least, if that yields, on average, 60 "populated" systems.

As to placement, 25% of the space behind each team with at least 50% of the area free between them. It could vary, too, for example, I'd say 20% space behind each team (leaving 60% space between them). But never let the space between them get less than 50% of the map.

Geo may have some other idea, sooo....

Re: Challenge Match
 

lord chane, i'm already using a variant of that picture for my cantina avatar, but when i'm done with it people should be able to tell them apart. since i'm not using it all the time, i can't claim that picture either, so it all comes down to wether or not you think people will mistake you for cantina narf http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Challenge Match
 

My ten figure was just pulled out of ether. Someone made a comment earliewr they wanted this to be a fast paced game. I thought that meant fewer rather than more systems. However, I was not thinking about he fact that we'd all be rock/oxy and was assuming shared systems between allies. If we are all teh same type though maybe more would be a better number. Fyron Paradise systems have a lot of planets. 10 systems there is like 30 in a standard game.

Gryphin, there is no way to specify the location of anythign but the first planet in a multi planet start.

Geoschmo

Re: Challenge Match
 

Thanks geo. I put the map and the wine for tonight. Pooh Star is sending me to bed.
enjoy the night folks

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, it was me wanting a fast-paced game ( http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ). Guess I'm tired of the current 2 games I'm in where play seems a bit more leisurely. But fast-paced didn't necessarily mean short in duration.

Also, not sure what you mean by "was assuming shared systems between allies", but I still assume that. Meaning if a system is between two allies and one person colonizes one planet in it and another colonizes another planet in the same system, that's fine. Just not gifting colonies back and forth.

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He probably meant that the different allies would normally have different planet types and atmospheres, and so would potentially split their systems to optimize their useage (esp. if no gifting of pop is allowed). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I see your point and I noted in my message that my example was extreme. That said, it seems entirely possible to me that two rock/oxy planets could still spawn wildly different life forms. For example, a huge planet, say a two or three times the size of Earth might well have higher gravity. In fact it's pretty much certain that it would. Any life form that came out of that environment would be likely be a bit different, don't you think? Assuming the ships have artificial gravity and that the denizens of this planet like the feel of "normal" gravity, then such a ship wouldn't work so well for a native of a standard Terran sized planet, or, worse, a smaller, lower gravity planet. And just because someone is a native of a rock/oxy planet doesn't have to mean they're a land dweller. Fish consume oxygen too, but they don't breath it like we do. And even if we were to dismiss those arguments I think there's still a compelling case to be made based on size alone. Who's to say that the humanoid race of one rock/oxy planet isn't normal sized and the other a bit small? A ship built for a race with an average height of say 4' would be mighty uncomfortable for a race with an average height of say 6'. But this is really all academic. I'd already said I didn't care, I was just making a philosophical point. I realize the game isn't intended to be realistic.

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Narf, may I call you Narf? You've been in the forums longer than I have so I'll change if you like. Otherwise, if you've no objection, then I'll keep using it for now. No, I'm not worried about being mistaken for "cantina narf". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My turn to be confused. What? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My turn to be confused. What? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I apologize. Let me take my time and attempt to explain why this whole thing started. (argggh!)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

When I first read this, I was worried you might think sharing systems was not allowed due to the discussion about not swapping colonies. So, I tried to clarify that just in case. Then...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

So I commented to say that I get confused sometimes and went on to make sure everyone understood that other colony types could be researched. I didn't want your team to think (after all the discussion about rock/oxygen), somehow, that the ONLY colony type permitted in the game was Rock. I figured, depending on how soon a war breaks out, people might have time to learn other colonizing types. That's all I was saying.

I apologize for any confusion. My only intent was to make sure someone wasn't getting prepared to enter (and play the game) with misunderstood information. I fully expect people in the same alliance to share systems...after all, why not? And, depending on the oportunities for research, I expect other colony types to be discovered.

Re: Challenge Match
 

Thank you. Clear now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Challenge Match
 

Gryphin, As far as setting the game up on PBW, my suggestion is, just do it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif If you run into a specific problem let me know. I'll look it over once you get it setup and if I see anything out of place I'll mention it.

Geoschmo

Re: Challenge Match
 

I'll try to setup the game on PBW tonight around 7 East Coast Time.

Re: Challenge Match
 

Olden Ones vs The Black Hole Alliance
has been setup.
Please look it over and let me know if there need to be changes.
Currently it is set for:
After Last Player Upload
No Statistics Shown

The map currently has 114 Systems. It is very easy for me to delete as many as you like.

[ April 24, 2003, 00:06: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

Re: Challenge Match
 

Umm, I forgot. Am I an olden one or part of the black hole alliance? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Challenge Match
 

The Challenge Match
In the dark of the night April 18, 2003 Slinky with Lord Chane, and soon asmala threw down the gauntlet. They challenged a team of any three players to take them on in a struggle for control of K'Rithian Quadrant.
It was not long before they were labeled, "The Axis of Evil" by none other than he who would accept the challenge. Later this band declared themselves to be “The Black Hole Alliance”. Within 18 hours the estimable Geoschmoe teaming up with the honorable Rextorres and unassailable 1FSTCAT.came forth forming an “Alliance of Good” in short order they were named, “The Olden Ones”. It fell upon them to free the galaxy of The Black Hole Alliance. The stakes were clear, Victory or Death!

[ April 24, 2003, 01:13: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

Re: Challenge Match
 

Lord Chane,
Your logic if flawless. I conceed.

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He probably meant that the different allies would normally have different planet types and atmospheres, and so would potentially split their systems to optimize their useage (esp. if no gifting of pop is allowed). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, as one can see, I'm easily confused http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

With that point in mind, though, we will all be oxygen atmosphere but I would envision seeing other colony types (depending on the size of the map and distance from the "enemy", however).

Re: Challenge Match
 

Hey ( http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ), all my good fictional writing gone to waste?

Asmala was branded an upstart on the KOTH league, coming from nowhere and making a name for himself among the "heavyweights". Then came Slynky, more mouth than ability (sheepish grin), and finally, Lord Chane made his debut.

It should have been the challenge of the "Two and Three Digit Forum Posters" -vs- the "Four-digit Forum Posters" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

Anyway, I tried to portray US as the "Black Hole Alliance" (Black representing the "evil" brand we were, well, branded with http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif ). Now, all the sudden, we're the Olden ones? Yes, I'm an old fart but Asmala helps our average...LOL. Besides, Asmala uses the Black Hole Riders as his standard empire name (and, without consent http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif , I used it as our alliance name to honor our young general).

Re: Challenge Match
 

Hang on, I'll fix it.

Fixed

[ April 24, 2003, 01:13: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You're a prince among princes! And thanks again for hosting the game (and all that that responsbility has entailed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

Oh, and glad to hear you're sober tonight http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">More like a joker among Jacks.

Re: Challenge Match
 

Once again showing initiative calm Commander Slynky has joined the game. The question in everyone’s mind, “Does he have what it takes to take what they have”?

I am still awaiting a decision on how many systems and who if anyone objects to unusual names. I’ll keep them clean.
Dose anyone in the forums have a system name they would like to see used?

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Your earlier post said 114 systems. I'll agree to 100 if geo thinks that's enough.

As to names, I've already indicated it's fine by me. I think the rest of the Black Hole Alliance has agreed, also. (Just no names like, Slynky's Black Hole, please http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Re: Challenge Match
 

I totally agree. No way that I am going to go into Slynky's Black Hole, so if there is a system named that he will win by default. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Number of systems doesn't really matter to me. I only brought it up as a matter of discusion. Once it's decided I can plan my strategy accordingly. As long as it's not so big that it takes us a month to find each other.

Geoschmo

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As we can tell from this one item, any war updates to the match may be humorous!

Re: Challenge Match
 

Ok, I'll make it an even 100 plus a few "extras" that will be un non stratiegic locaitons an of no signifigance to the game except posisble humor.

I'll play test the player distribution to check for time to impact, er contact.

[ April 24, 2003, 15:36: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

Re: Challenge Match
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And I hope whatever you discover remains a secret. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif